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Abortion is a done deal

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Pediatricians say IUDs are best choice for birth control in teen girls

The devices are more than 99% effective in preventing pregnancy, compared with 91% for birth-control pills and 82% for condoms, the Canadian Paediatric Society says.

 

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/pediatricians-say-iuds-are-best-choice-for-birth-control-in-teen-girls

 


 

Quote

 

Consistent and correct use of the male latex condom reduces the risk of sexually transmitted disease (STD) and human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) transmission. However, condom use cannot provide absolute protection against any STD.

The most reliable ways to avoid transmission of STDs are to abstain from sexual activity, or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with an uninfected partner.

However, many infected persons may be unaware of their infection because STDs often are asymptomatic and unrecognized.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/brief.html

 

If you must have sex with someone who isn't in a long-term monogamous relationship with you..........use both, I say.

 

Edited by betsy

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My apologies to you Canadians as our Finnish Foreign Minister attended some anti-abortion vigil in Canada claiming that he was doing it in his spare time. When you are a minister you are a minister 24/7, there is no spare time.

Attending demonstrations in another country is off-limits for a minister. Demonstrations seek to change the laws of a country and when a minister attends one in another country he is intervening in affairs of another country.

The dimwit we have for a foreign minister is a catholic. Being catholic is very rare in Finland but unfortunately the exception has reached to become foreign minister.

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On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 5:55 PM, -TSS- said:

My apologies to you Canadians as our Finnish Foreign Minister attended some anti-abortion vigil in Canada claiming that he was doing it in his spare time. When you are a minister you are a minister 24/7, there is no spare time.

Attending demonstrations in another country is off-limits for a minister. Demonstrations seek to change the laws of a country and when a minister attends one in another country he is intervening in affairs of another country.

The dimwit we have for a foreign minister is a catholic. Being catholic is very rare in Finland but unfortunately the exception has reached to become foreign minister.

I am pro choice.

Freedom of association trumps a ministers duties if we are to promote voting by conscience instead of by party line.

We saw, with Trump, what voting the tribal line instead of by conscience does to a party. Yuk.

Regards

DL

 

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I take it back!!!!

Abortion is not a done deal.   At least, not in the USA.

 

 

Quote

Trump makes clear Roe v. Wade is on the chopping block

 

Late in the 2016 campaign, he offered this in an interview with Fox News's Chris Wallace:

WALLACE: You just said you want to see the court protect the Second Amendment. Do you want to see the court overturn Roe v. Wade?

TRUMP: Well, if we put another two or perhaps three justices on, that's really what’s going to be — that will happen and that will happen automatically in my opinion because I am putting pro-life justices on the court.

 

We're now on that second justice, the point at which Trump said his picks might overturn the law. And he said it “will happen.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/02/trump-makes-clear-roe-v-wade-is-on-the-chopping-block/?utm_term=.8c5d8a3039ea

 

 

If RvW gets overturned in the USA - we'll be forced to re-open the issue here in Canada......and in other democratic countries.

Edited by betsy

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Some say you can't overturn a precedent.   Yes you can.

 

 

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Graham on Roe v. Wade: 'You don’t overturn precedent unless there’s a good reason'

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/395023-graham-on-roe-v-wade-you-dont-overturn-precedent-unless-theres-a-good-reason

 

 

All you need is a good reason to overturn it.

 

If you think precedents can't be overturned - just look at the recent ruling on  public unions.  The Supreme Court overturned a 40-year old precedent!

 

 

Quote

 

Conservatives on the Supreme Court said Wednesday that it was unconstitutional to allow public employee unions to require collective-bargaining fees from workers who choose not to join the union, a major blow for the U.S. labor movement.

The court, in a 5-to-4 decision, overturned a 40-year-old precedent, arguing that the rule could require workers to give financial support to public policy positions they oppose.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-rules-against-public-unions-collecting-fees-for-nonmembers/2018/06/27/ccdf6bf4-7a0c-11e8-80be-6d32e182a3bc_story.html?utm_term=.6013b994e20d

Edited by betsy

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What better reason could there be than recognizing the unborn as a human being deserving of the same rights as any other human being?

If you think they can't find that good reason, then check out the US Dept of Health and Human Services.

 

Quote

Organizational Structure

HHS is the U.S. Government’s principal agency for protecting the health of all Americans and providing essential human services, especially for those who are least able to help themselves. HHS accomplishes its mission through programs and initiatives that cover a wide spectrum of activities, serving and protecting Americans at every stage of life, from conception.

https://www.hhs.gov/about/strategic-plan/introduction/index.html#mission

 

It's a scientific fact!   Human life begins at conception!


 

Quote

 

The conclusion that human life begins at sperm-egg fusion is uncontested, objective, based on the universally accepted scientific method of distinguishing different cell types from each other and on ample scientific evidence (thousands of independent, peer-reviewed publications).

Moreover, it is entirely independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life or of human embryos.


 

https://lozierinstitute.org/a-scientific-view-of-when-life-begins/

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If recognition of the fetus as a human being is the reason that overturns RvW........we'll be forced to overturn abortion in Canada too.   

How can we not, if abortion means murdering a human being?   And, if we don't practice discrimination?

 

You can't be a human right advocate, if you don't practice it.

Edited by betsy

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Women to be charged with murder for taking "Morning After Pill" when Row vs Wade is overturned.

 

plan B® comes in a one-pill dose. If taken within 72 hours (3 days) and preferably within 12 hours after a contraceptive accident or unprotected sex, it can prevent pregnancy by doing one of three things:

  • Temporarily stops the release of an egg from the ovary
  • Prevents fertilization
  • Prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus
Edited by Kerfuffle

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On 5/31/2018 at 10:27 AM, betsy said:
Quote

 

 Pediatricians say IUDs are best choice for birth control in teen girls

The devices are more than 99% effective in preventing pregnancy, compared with 91% for birth-control pills and 82% for condoms, the Canadian Paediatric Society says.

 

Do you realize that by condoning  the use of IUD's that you are killing the unborn....As you believe that life begins at conception and IUD'S can disrupt the implantation and cause the death of the embryo.

Basically you are starving the unborn from denying it nourishment .

 

Intra-uterine devices (IUDs): IUDs work by putting a foreign body into the woman’s womb. The IUD then causes an inflammation inside the womb, much like the inflammation that forms in the skin when you have a splinter. This has a contraceptive effect because implantation of an embryo in the uterine lining involves a complicated cross-talk between the immune cells of the mother and those of the embryo. In the presence of chronic inflammation caused by the IUD, implantation is difficult or impossible.

The IUD clearly does not prevent the formation or release of eggs. Studies of egg-release rates among women using the IUD show rates just slightly lower than those among women without IUDs. Studies have also shown that when early embryos are recovered from the fallopian tubes of IUD users, most of these embryos are damaged. IUDs have also been used as very effective “late” emergency contraception, because if an IUD is inserted after an embryo implants, it can disrupt the implantation and cause the death of the embryo.

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4 hours ago, betsy said:

I take it back!!!!

Abortion is not a done deal.   At least, not in the USA.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/02/trump-makes-clear-roe-v-wade-is-on-the-chopping-block/?utm_term=.8c5d8a3039ea

 

 

If RvW gets overturned in the USA - we'll be forced to re-open the issue here in Canada......and in other democratic countries.

B. S.

The U.S. does not set the moral s of the world. Thank all the Gods for that.

Regards

DL

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20 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said:

Do you realize that by condoning  the use of IUD's that you are killing the unborn....As you believe that life begins at conception and IUD'S can disrupt the implantation and cause the death of the embryo.

 

WRONG!

 

IUDs makes the sperm immovable.   It does prevent implantation SHOULD fertilization occurs.  Fertilization rarely occurs.

 

Intrauterine devices (IUDs) achieve their primary contraceptive

effect by interfering with sperm motility and survival to prevent

fertilization. In rare cases, when fertilization does occur, IUDs

may also prevent implantation.

http://www.un.org/popin/popis/journals/network/network162/blck162.html

 

 

Apparently, it doesn't kill the unborn should fertilization occur.

 

Quote

And even if a woman were to get pregnant while using the hormonal IUD (chances of which are very close to zero), the hormonal IUD wouldn't hurt her pregnancy, which is why hormonal IUDs aren't used as emergency contraception, according to Bryant.

 In fact, in this unlikely situation, the progestin in the IUD might actually help the pregnancy, since the body naturally releases the hormone after fertilization.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/how-iuds-work-iud-not-abortion_us_565dd057e4b08e945feca2a2

 

Edited by betsy

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Just now, betsy said:

IUDs makes the sperm immovable.   It does prevent implantation SHOULD fertilization occurs.  Fertilization rarely occurs.

 

 

http://www.un.org/popin/popis/journals/network/network162/blck162.html

Read again....very effective “late” emergency contraception, because if an IUD is inserted after an embryo implants, it can disrupt the implantation and cause the death of the embryo.

Even if you are right that Fertilization rarely occurs(which your not) then you are ok with some unborn being killed 

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17 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

B. S.

The U.S. does not set the moral s of the world. Thank all the Gods for that.

Regards

DL

If Roe vs. Wade is overturned, the regressive Christian right (RCR) in Canada will look for a political candidate who will promise to open that debate.  Someone will oblige.  Whether that candidate ever gets elected depends on the political will of the RCR.  We certainly don't have to worry about Islamists forcing their religious beliefs on us, the RCR is already all over that.  

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3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If Roe vs. Wade is overturned, the regressive Christian right (RCR) in Canada will look for a political candidate who will promise to open that debate.  Someone will oblige.  Whether that candidate ever gets elected depends on the political will of the RCR.  We certainly don't have to worry about Islamists forcing their religious beliefs on us, the RCR is already all over that.  

I do not distinguish one right wing bunch of loons from the other.

 

There will always be the extreme right and left. But if we do not use the 80 20 rule and ignore the furthest extremes when devising policy for the whole, then the rest of us are fools.

Regards

DL

  • Haha 1

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8 hours ago, betsy said:

I take it back!!!!

Abortion is not a done deal.   At least, not in the USA.

If RvW gets overturned in the USA - we'll be forced to re-open the issue here in Canada......and in other democratic countries.

According to polling released in the past few days, most Americans don't want the courts to overturn RvW (see link, below). Even among partisan Republicans, support for so doing amounts only to a bare majority.  It would be very politically risky for a Congress that's already held in low regard to prioritize the agenda of religiously motivated social conservatives where issues like abortion and gay rights are concerned. As for Canada, the so-con agenda is the proverbial third rail among all mainstream parties. Harper, despite his personal convictions, had to suppress the so-cons in his own party in order to achieve and hold power. There is no big push for change here, nor generally in the West for that matter. If America moves to implement the so-con agenda, it will likely remain an outlier among Western democracies.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-pulse/2018/06/29/two-thirds-of-americans-dont-want-to-overturn-roe-v-wade-267641

Edited by turningrite

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3 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

Read again....very effective “late” emergency contraception, because if an IUD is inserted after an embryo implants, it can disrupt the implantation and cause the death of the embryo.

Even if you are right that Fertilization rarely occurs(which your not) then you are ok with some unborn being killed 

Well.....that was written 20 years ago.   This article that was written in 2015 says:

 

Quote

And even if a woman were to get pregnant while using the hormonal IUD (chances of which are very close to zero), the hormonal IUD wouldn't hurt her pregnancy, which is why hormonal IUDs aren't used as emergency contraception, according to Bryant. In fact, in this unlikely situation, the progestin in the IUD might actually help the pregnancy, since the body naturally releases the hormone after fertilization.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/how-iuds-work-iud-not-abortion_us_565dd057e4b08e945feca2a2

 

 

Furthermore, even if what you say is true - which I doubt - the intention is good.   Sometimes, even a well-meaning surgery can cause the unexpected death of a person. 

I support surgeries to help cure patients.  Even my husband has had surgery.    Just because some patients die under the knife - are you saying I'm okay with them being killed?   What a silly rationale.

Edited by betsy

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7 minutes ago, turningrite said:

According to polling released in the past few days, most Americans don't want the courts to overturn RvW (see link, below). Even among partisan Republicans, support for so doing amounts only to a bare majority.  It would be very politically risky for a Congress that's already held in low regard to prioritize the agenda of religiously motivated social conservatives where issues like abortion and gay rights are concerned. As for Canada, the so-con agenda is the proverbial third rail among all mainstream parties. Harper, despite his personal convictions, had to suppress the so-cons in his own party in order to achieve and hold power. There is no big push for change here, nor generally in the West for that matter. If America moves to implement the so-con agenda, it will likely remain an outlier among Western democracies.

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-pulse/2018/06/29/two-thirds-of-americans-dont-want-to-overturn-roe-v-wade-267641

 

We'll have to wait and see what happens next.

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Just now, betsy said:

 

We'll have to wait and see what happens next.

True. But as Trump seeks to fill the SCOTUS vacancy he'll have to be aware that abortion could well derail the candidacy of any choice deemed too socially conservative. Given the polling and the fact that the Republicans want to fill the vacancy prior to the midterms, it's almost certain the Democrats will leverage the abortion issue to expose and undermine SCOTUS candidates who oppose RvW and at the same expose members of Congress who support such candidates. This is a culture war social conservatives can't easily win but can easily lose. Mitch McConnell, who's been pushing for early confirmation, has given the Democrats a big fat target to shoot at. Let's see how well they can aim.

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5 minutes ago, turningrite said:

True. But as Trump seeks to fill the SCOTUS vacancy he'll have to be aware that abortion could well derail the candidacy of any choice deemed too socially conservative. Given the polling and the fact that the Republicans want to fill the vacancy prior to the midterms, it's almost certain the Democrats will leverage the abortion issue to expose and undermine SCOTUS candidates who oppose RvW and at the same expose members of Congress who support such candidates. This is a culture war social conservatives can't easily win but can easily lose. Mitch McConnell, who's been pushing for early confirmation, has given the Democrats a big fat target to shoot at. Let's see how well they can aim.

Though majority doesn't want to overturn RvW.....majority, wants restrictions on abortion.

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2018/01/18/poll-shows-strong-majority-americans-want-restrictions-abortion

 

 

Here is an interesting read. 

 

What could happen if Roe v Wade gets struck down?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/abortion-rights-supreme-court/?utm_term=.8a8b57aaf183

 

Edited by betsy

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Betsy

If those who wish to stop what they see as evil put their money where their mouths are, the numbers of abortions would drop even faster than they are today.

They forget the horrible life statistics that follow poor or unwanted children who are forced into the lowest tiers of our demographic pyramid.

When and if your followers ever show that kind of effort instead of ignoring the plight of those you would create without abortions, then you might get more support.

I come out of Catholicism and abortion was used by all that I knew except for one set of set of grand parents who actually walked their loving talk. I was surprised to see it.

I have links to what shows how Christian groups lied in offering after birth aid to women and their children that dried up so fast after the birth as to make Christian hypocrisy quite apparent.

Regards

DL

 

 

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15 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Betsy

If those who wish to stop what they see as evil put their money where their mouths are, the numbers of abortions would drop even faster than they are today.

They forget the horrible life statistics that follow poor or unwanted children who are forced into the lowest tiers of our demographic pyramid.

When and if your followers ever show that kind of effort instead of ignoring the plight of those you would create without abortions, then you might get more support.

I come out of Catholicism and abortion was used by all that I knew except for one set of set of grand parents who actually walked their loving talk. I was surprised to see it.

I have links to what shows how Christian groups lied in offering after birth aid to women and their children that dried up so fast after the birth as to make Christian hypocrisy quite apparent.

Regards

DL

 

 

 

My, aren't we so self-righteous, huh?  And.....so judgemental of a particular group!  msn-cheeky-smile-smiley-emoticon.gif

Though there are religious people who are against abortion - there are atheists too that are against it.   Here is one:

 

 

About Pro-Life Humanists

http://www.prolifehumanists.org/

 

 

This is about HUMAN RIGHTS!

 

You have a beef with  Catholics - fine.   You've got a yuuuuge problem with religion, and God.  That's your problem.  But, it is so petty and.....irrational....... when you use it for an argument on something about human rights.  You're trying to make this simply a "religious" stance.   Either you're ill-informed (you didn't know that there are pro-life atheist groups, that this is about human rights), or you're simply narrow-minded, trying to demonize religion, or use religion to diminish the importance of fighting for the unborn's rights!

 

If the unborn is a human being - he must be entitled to the same rights as you and I.  We don't discriminate, right?   

 

If there's anyone hypocritical -

it would be those who call themselves advocates of human rights and equality - and yet, they support the discrimination and oppression of a human being based on his age (and his status in life as someone who cannot support himself), stripping him of his humanity, and advocating for his murder!  

Hello?   When we talk "equality" - we don't get to "pick and choose" groups that are treated with such.  No one is given the privilege to be above someone, or above all!  No one is beneath others!     E Q U A L I T Y.

 

Well.....so many people on this earth cannot support themselves.  They can't live without any support!     They're all like the fetus dependent on the womb of the government - relying on taxpayers!  So, there!

 

A lot of children are born into poverty.....by your rationale, they would all be better off dead.  Lol.  I don't know what circumstances had sucked the fighting spirit out from you, but it's comforting to know that some are not so easily defeated by poverty.  

 

So many people had risen above poverty WITHOUT THE SOCIALIST kind of "aid" that many feel like they're entitled to......that all hope is gone without it, that they just prefer to shrivel up and die.     A socialist mentality is CRIPPLING!

 

It depends on what one defines as a "success." 

To some, success is measured by the luxuries they can afford.  It's all tied to material things.  These folks are usually the type of folks who end up needing to talk to therapists at the end of the day......life had let them down.  It doesn't take much to knock them down either - all it takes is losing a job......or a promotion.......or unable to get a career going.......or getting bankrupt........

 

For some, being a "success" is all about getting rich.....or  having a lucrative career.....or to be able to afford that big car, and that big estate house with a pool.  A woman can't feel fulfilled in life just being a wife and a mother - even women who can afford so easily to be just that - like as if those roles don't amount to anything at all, thanks to feminism for that!  These days, you've got to be SUPER-MOM! Whether you like it or not - being just mom, isn't good enough.

Anyway, even men expect that from their future wives now.  Someone who can bring in some cash, AND be wife and mom!  That's the bed we made for the new generation of women.  I bet so many women are suffering in silence from all the pressures - but they don't have the courage to speak out. 

 

 

Life on earth must be hell for those who can't find happiness and contentment in life, in whatever situation you are in.  No wonder - in this time of supposed progress - being a therapist has become a lucrative career - and, we see so many suicides (and murder-suicides). 

I suppose it makes it so much worse when, what you believe you're entitled to, hasn't come through.     Just simple suicide, isn't good enough these days.   You gotta send a statement!   There's so much anger and  terrible resentment all the way to the end! 

What a bummer.  Especially when you believe this is all the life you'll ever get.  That, there's no other after it.

Edited by betsy

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15 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Betsy

If those who wish to stop what they see as evil put their money where their mouths are, the numbers of abortions would drop even faster than they are today.

They forget the horrible life statistics that follow poor or unwanted children who are forced into the lowest tiers of our demographic pyramid.

When and if your followers ever show that kind of effort instead of ignoring the plight of those you would create without abortions, then you might get more support.

I come out of Catholicism and abortion was used by all that I knew except for one set of set of grand parents who actually walked their loving talk. I was surprised to see it.

I have links to what shows how Christian groups lied in offering after birth aid to women and their children that dried up so fast after the birth as to make Christian hypocrisy quite apparent.

Regards

DL

 

 

 

Btw........with all the contraceptives available, and all the information and education.........

............why are you blaming other people for the unwanted pregnancy?

 

 

Edited by betsy

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On 7/3/2018 at 2:28 PM, French Patriot said:

.............. hypocrisy quite apparent.

 

Oh yeah, you got that right!  Indeed, so apparent.       Here's another hypocrisy:

 

These same people so-called progressives/leftist are so anal about inclusivity.........and yet they fight tooth and nail, to exclude - and murder - their own flesh and blood!  

Edited by betsy

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