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2 hours ago, betsy said:

Read again.

Read what exactly Betsy?

Can anyone else spot where she's stepped in it?

 

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15 hours ago, eyeball said:

 

Can anyone else spot where she's stepped in it?

 

Why don't you show where, and explain how?

 

You were referring to Orwell's prediction. Of course, I assumed it was from 1984.  Which prediction is that?  Be precise.

 

Edited by betsy

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On 5/20/2018 at 10:51 AM, eyeball said:

I do, what's your excuse?

Here's an Orwell quote that should resonate to Canadians under the Trudeau government:

 

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

 

 

Edited by betsy

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4 hours ago, betsy said:

Why don't you show where, and explain how?

You said 1984 is about socialism because of the name Ingsoc in the book.  Why do think North Korea call itself the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea?

Here's a couple of clues...Newspeak and Doublethink.

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On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 5:26 AM, betsy said:

Not making excuses.  Just corrected you about 1984 - just stating facts.

1984 is about socialism.

It's been years since I read 1984, but it's my recollection that it was about totalitarian and fascism. Fascism is simply about monopoly political control by a single party or faction and is consistent with both ultra-right and ultra-left ideology. Despite its name, Germany's Nazi party ruled over an economy where the means of production largely remained in private hands. There is in fact no more direct conflict between fascism and capitalism than there is between fascism and socialism.

Edited by turningrite

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4 hours ago, eyeball said:

You said 1984 is about socialism because of the name Ingsoc in the book.  Why do think North Korea call itself the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea?

Here's a couple of clues...Newspeak and Doublethink.

1984 is about English socialism that turned into totalitarian - because that's how the author wrote it!

 

 

 

Edited by betsy

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3 hours ago, betsy said:

1984 is about English socialism that turned into totalitarian - because that's how the author wrote it!

You're suggesting Orwell was blaming the totalitarianism his story warned about on socialism?  When Orwell was asked how to prevent totalitarianism he simply said don't let it happen. It's pretty clear to me he blames the victims of tyranny for the state they find themselves in. 

You do realize Orwell was a socialist right?

Edited by eyeball
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12 hours ago, eyeball said:

You're suggesting Orwell was blaming the totalitarianism his story warned about on socialism?  When Orwell was asked how to prevent totalitarianism he simply said don't let it happen. It's pretty clear to me he blames the victims of tyranny for the state they find themselves in. 

You do realize Orwell was a socialist right?

That's right, don't let it happen.  It's a warning against totalitarianism that can happen with any ideology - it just happened that in his book, he'd used Ingsoc.

 

It's easy to refer to Orwell's warnings.  You've pointed to Trump.  (note:  can you be specific what about him that's orwellian?)

 

Yet.......what's happening in our own turf is much worse.  Do people really see?  

 

Look what's happening now under the Liberals.  We no longer have the freedom to speak our mind, or speak out what we think based on what we see around us.  We could get penalized for it.  We could even get classified or labelled unfairly.

 

Look at the personal data gathering, which are being sold to political parties.  They know what you've "liked" in sites (be it on facebook or maybe even in forums), things you bought, etc..,  Why do you think they'd need those personal information?  Surely we're not so naive to think that they're only for curiousity's sake..and for marketing purposes?

 

How many people in dictatorial countries are now in peril because of those datas that could've been sold to dictators, or would-be dictators?  How many people have been "flagged" as "enemy" of the regime? How many  have faced consequences because of that?

 

Orwell never thought that cameras spying on people.....will be bought and installed by the people themselves.  Smart this-and-that.   It's another way to gather data on us, right?  The ultimate intrusion to our private lives.  

Who's funding the research for this kind of technology?

Edited by betsy

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Totalitarianism doesn't have to be limited to a nation.  

It can happen to the whole world - when nations are without any borders -  and the world is ruled by one organization.

 

What ideology is pushing for a world without  borders?

Edited by betsy

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4 hours ago, betsy said:

What ideology is pushing for a world without  borders?

Global capitalism pushed for and secured a borderless world for money years ago.  Dictators and oligarchs everywhere are thriving.

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2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Global capitalism pushed for and secured a borderless world for money years ago.  Dictators and oligarchs everywhere are thriving.

To be fair, oligarchs are doing better than dictators.  It's hard to run a country and keep track of all the side deals at the same time.

 

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28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Global capitalism pushed for and secured a borderless world for money years ago.  Dictators and oligarchs everywhere are thriving.

We're talking in the context of borders - physical borders.  Boundary lines.

Think of it as your fence.  They want to eliminate your fence, so anyone can freely come inside  your property.  And your neighbor can plant or do whatever she wants even if it encroaches on your property.

 

 

Edited by betsy

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1 hour ago, betsy said:

We're talking in the context of borders - physical borders.  Boundary lines.

We're also talking about those too - there are some very real borders that physically prevent human beings from following the money and especially finding out how more and more seems to end up in the bank accounts of dictators and oligarchs.

Quote

Think of it as your fence.  They want to eliminate your fence, so anyone can freely come inside  your property.  And your neighbor can plant or do whatever she wants even if it encroaches on your property.

Think of borders as being like shells that allow money to be moved around where human beings can't see or follow it.  The fence simply doesn't exist for people with piles of money.

Edited by eyeball

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40 minutes ago, eyeball said:

... The fence simply doesn't exist for people with piles of money.

 

The fence also doesn't exist for many illegals with no money at all.

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49 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The fence also doesn't exist for many illegals with no money at all.

Nor should it so long as anyone is given such freedom.

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1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Nor should it so long as anyone is given such freedom.

 

Fine...then no fence for oligarch's money...glad you agree.

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3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Fine...then no fence for oligarch's money...glad you agree.

Absolutely...no fences to hide their money behind would make it much easier to tax the snot out of.

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On 5/5/2018 at 1:33 PM, Michael R D James said:

The Republican/Democratic opposition seen from the perspective of Europe is a phenomenon of partisan politics that has abandoned the concept of representation and no longer represents the interests of the American people.

The key phrase is "as seen from the perspective of Europe". Nothing against Europe, but as human beings, they have the same tendency to judge others according to their own values and norms. European values and norms don't apply to the US system.

Not saying I totally disagree with what you're saying, but your approach might be wanting for a more objective approach perhaps?

Edited by JamesHackerMP
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1 hour ago, JamesHackerMP said:

The key phrase is "as seen from the perspective of Europe". Nothing against Europe, but as human beings, they have the same tendency to judge others according to their own values and norms. European values and norms don't apply to the US system.

 

Agreed....the Europeans can hardly throw stones at the U.S. system given their past and present political and economic circumstances.

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