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On 6/15/2018 at 3:30 AM, betsy said:

Twisted kind of so-called tolerance!   Putting illegal aliens ahead of your own citizens!

 

of course, it's all about importing future Liberal voters!

It's all about putting them ahead of conservatives. We need more commies.

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But it's OK when Obama did the same thing (e.g. Keystone XL, DRIC, NATO, "Buy American", etc.) ??? So I guess it just depends on who is doing the "screwing", eh ?

It is not "unpatriotic" to criticize Justin Trudeau, regardless of Trump's antics. Justin Trudeau is a putz...there...I said it. Trudeau was failing badly even in Canadian media long before

What does my question have to do with Trump? It's a very straight forward question. Have you been drinking, or are you simply refining the art of stupid to new levels? If you are questioning my p

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

it seems to be the Canadian thing to do, almost rates up there with slagging Americans or in your case Israelis...

Where did I slag Isrealis?  Show me the exact quote, please, or admit you are wrong.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Signals.Cpl said:

Why should Canada change their policies then?

This trade impasse with the US should not preclude us from examining and if need be, amending our policies regarding trade. A prime example is supply management. And to those who would say such reflections would make us look weak in the eyes of foreign trade negotiators, I say our recent trade moves have not been exactly stellar.

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1 hour ago, betsy said:

:rolleyes:

 

He put the tarriff to get to his aim:   no barriers, no tarriffs, no subsidies!

 

He lied. Trump loves tariffs, barriers and subsidies. He has made no effort whatsoever to even ask congress to lower or remove any of them.

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1 hour ago, capricorn said:

This trade impasse with the US should not preclude us from examining and if need be, amending our policies regarding trade. A prime example is supply management. And to those who would say such reflections would make us look weak in the eyes of foreign trade negotiators, I say our recent trade moves have not been exactly stellar.

Examining is one thing, but changing our own internal policies to suit a president who will just create another "fact" and create another version of "truth" doesn't make sense. Right now what we do or do not do with our dairy industry is a non-issue, from where I am seeing things Trump started the insults and attacks and only after he tried to find a reason why he was attacking.  If we decide to do away with our policies he will just switch "reasons" and if he cannot find one he will make one up and if all else fails... blame us for burning down the White House.

This seems to be his one and only negotiation strategy as well, he doesn't clearly spell out what he intents to get from whatever negotiations he is doing at the moment and when all is said and done he states that they were a success because he got everything he wanted.

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2 hours ago, Signals.Cpl said:

Examining is one thing, but changing our own internal policies to suit a president who will just create another "fact" and create another version of "truth" doesn't make sense.

 

Then why have Canadian businesses and politicians asked for internal policy changes to respond to Trump/Congress tax cuts, undermining Canada's competitiveness ?   Canadian oil rigs are leaving Canada at a faster pace than before.

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Right now what we do or do not do with our dairy industry is a non-issue, from where I am seeing things Trump started the insults and attacks and only after he tried to find a reason why he was attacking.  If we decide to do away with our policies he will just switch "reasons" and if he cannot find one he will make one up and if all else fails... blame us for burning down the White House.

 

Trudeau was first to personally attack Trump and Americans (60 Minutes interview)....before Trump became president.

Trump was attacked viciously in Canadian media for two years.    Canada likes to dish it out....but can't take it in return ?

 

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This seems to be his one and only negotiation strategy as well, he doesn't clearly spell out what he intents to get from whatever negotiations he is doing at the moment and when all is said and done he states that they were a success because he got everything he wanted.

 

Trump says a lot of things to disturb the status quo.   His very existence as POTUS proves that it is a successful strategy for him.

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14 hours ago, Argus said:

He lied. Trump loves tariffs, barriers and subsidies. He has made no effort whatsoever to even ask congress to lower or remove any of them.

Why would he, when he's using tarriffs as leverage to achieve his goal that EVERYONE remove tarriffs, barriers, and subsidies!

 

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6 hours ago, betsy said:

That depends on what Canada want to achieve, right?   That's why there is such a thing called, "negotiations."

Why didn't Trump bring this up in the negotiations then? He ran his mouth and decided to find a reason later... The problem with the US under Trump is that their credibility is shot to hell, he could agree to something in person and change his mind depending on what he sees on TV the next day or some offhand remark by some random person etc... 

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6 hours ago, betsy said:

Why would he, when he's using tarriffs as leverage to achieve his goal that EVERYONE remove tarriffs, barriers, and subsidies!

 

How is that Working for them? Mexico, Canada, China, EU and Japan placed tariffs on American exports... you know the recipients of 60%+ of America's exports. He went from having trade with little to no tariffs on either side to trade with ever increasing tariffs from all sides. The joke is on the American people because they will be the once paying more for everything. Canada might have tariffs on steel and aluminum but Trump put tariffs on everyone else as well which means Americans are still going to be buying from Canada because everyone else's steel price just went up 25% as well, but Mexico, Canada, China, EU and Japan can turn around and import from other sources what they need thereby increasing the trade imbalance. American exports become significantly more expensive worldwide while Canadian exports get more expensive in the US... right along with goods from everyone else. This should become pretty obvious by November and maybe common sense will prevail.

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19 hours ago, Signals.Cpl said:

Examining is one thing, but changing our own internal policies to suit a president who will just create another "fact" and create another version of "truth" doesn't make sense.

Who says it's to suit a president? We have trade deals with many countries and we need to put our best foot forward by taking account of changing situations and conditions on the global stage.

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This is a part of the equation we don't talk about enough when discussing trade and Trump. Trump has a lot of support from his base, from middle America, for his anti-Trade rhetoric. Partly that's because they still think trade is what took their jobs away (mostly it was technology) and partly it's because those manufacturing jobs which were once the life blood of middle America haven't been replaced.

You can point out the unemployment rate is 3.8% in the US but that's meaningless to middle America. The good jobs in the new economy are knowledge based (or are with government). But knowledge based jobs are for people who go to college, and they're in the cities and university towns. They're largely not in middle America. People aren't drawn to small towns for high tech work. That's in San Francisco and Seattle and other cities. Those workers want to go where there's clubs, restaurants and theaters, not a single tavern and a ho-down every Saturday night. So in middle America it's either manufacturing or farming, and both require a lot fewer people now due to automation. 

And this situation is only going to get worse. Millions more angry people, mostly men, will be added to the jobless or under employed over the coming years as AI replaces truck driving, bus driving, taxi driving and even construction equipment jobs. And like the people in middle America they'll be easy prey for some fast talking douchebag who tells them their problems are all because of foreigners, or finds some other enemy for them to blame.

The wise and learned folks who debate global trade can nod to each other in agreement over the boorish behaviour of U.S. President Donald Trump but their collective horror only underscores the gulf between global aspirations and small town desperation.

Trump knows his audience.

His relentless campaign to upset multi-national trade agreements and enter bi-lateral agreements more favourable to the interests of American workers is music to the ears of the people who elected him.

http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/snobelen-trump-trade-tactics-music-to-american-workers-ears

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1 hour ago, betsy said:

We  don't know how that's working for them.....but obviously they think it works for them.  Heck, they know more than we do.

We most definitely know how it is working for them, the price of still just went up by 25% and the American manufacturers and American people have nowhere to turn for reprieve. Everything that requires still at any stage of manufacturing, distribution or storage goes up in price and everything requires at least one of these categories. So the cost will be transferred to the American people right before the elections in November...

 

I don't think Trump sees this as working for him, I think he was under the impression that he will put tariffs on other countries and they will not respond in kind which became obvious as a false assumption on his part when the retaliations came around. I would love to see who he tries to blame for the rising unemployment rate when companies start shutting down and construction slows down dramatically. He took responsibility for Obama's policies that brought unemployment down to it's lowest level in a long time but now he will have to take responsibility for the rise in unemployment as well, or at the very least people will hold him responsible.

If Trump had imposed tariffs on Canadian steel only the US manufacturers could have imported from somewhere else, but he didn't so they can't because wherever they go will be the same price.

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1 hour ago, capricorn said:

Who says it's to suit a president? We have trade deals with many countries and we need to put our best foot forward by taking account of changing situations and conditions on the global stage.

Do you think that if Canada made unilateral concessions right now and did exactly as he wants it would make one shred of difference? We cannot really do much in the way of change until the US changes their policies on subsidies since if we change they can flood our markets with cheaper products, destroy our domestic food production and then our situation is going to be so much worse when you have to rely solely on Trump's America for food. There are certain strategic industries in any country that have to be maintained, maybe our system is not the best and maybe we should look into changing it but we should most definitely not allow subsidized American goods to destroy our domestic food production because then they not can destroy our economy, but they control our food supply.

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14 minutes ago, Signals.Cpl said:

Do you think that if Canada made unilateral concessions right now and did exactly as he wants it would make one shred of difference?

We cannot know the outcome of any potential move until it's put on the table for analysis. As for the rest of your observations, each side must weigh any and all impact on their own industries before agreeing to demands or negotiating a compromise.

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On 6/16/2018 at 4:16 AM, betsy said:

 

To point at the USA's subsidy for her agriculture, is not a rebuttal.   That's what he's working on - to remove subsidies.

 

Trump made it clear.   He's aiming for EQUAL trading.   No barriers.  No tarriffs.   No subsidies.   That means, that goes for everyone - including the USA.

I don't see anything wrong with that.  Especially so between friends and allies.  Friends and allies should treat one another equally.

 

The prosperity of all friends and allies will ensure the triumph of the alliance in facing any disasters or adversaries.   Indeed, economy is tied with national security.   If you don't have the dough - your defense is weakened.  You become a "dead weight" to your compadres!

 

If all our allies will have an under-funded and gutted military like us, thanks to the Liberals  - might as well raise the white flag!  Who can we rely on for protection and support? 

 

I also would like to see all the countries of the world work together and all get rid of their military's. The trillions of tax dollars saved would be of enormous and of great value to every country on earth. Hunger, poverty and especially wars would be deleted. But that would take some wheeling and dealing to ever get that to happen. Maybe Trump will work on that next. But I will definitely not try and hold my breath on that idea. :)

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On 6/16/2018 at 2:13 AM, betsy said:

Hopefully, Scheer will put that sacred cow,  Supply Management, on the table for negotiations.  It's only there for political reasons.

There are too many sacred cows and taboo subjects in this country. Quebec and immigration being just two of them.  :( 

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29 minutes ago, capricorn said:

We cannot know the outcome of any potential move until it's put on the table for analysis. As for the rest of your observations, each side must weigh any and all impact on their own industries before agreeing to demands or negotiating a compromise.

This doesn't seem to have been a major issue before Trump went on the warpath last week and it became an issue only after Trump tried to figure out an excuse as to why he is on the warpath.

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3 hours ago, Argus said:

 And this situation is only going to get worse. Millions more angry people, mostly men, will be added to the jobless or under employed over the coming years as AI replaces truck driving, bus driving, taxi driving and even construction equipment jobs. And like the people in middle America they'll be easy prey for some fast talking douchebag who tells them their problems are all because of foreigners, or finds some other enemy for them to blame.

 

That's only because there'll be a bunch of right wing douchebags insisting the moral imperative to produce still applies and that laid off slackers will have to roll up their sleeves and work harder (for less of course)

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55 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The usual comparisons to America will not rescue Canada's economy from Canadian policies.  

Trump is not responsible for the Canadian economy....that's Trudeau's job, and he is failing miserably.

So true. The US has enough on its plate without having to worry about soothing the Canadian psyche.

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1 hour ago, capricorn said:

So true. The US has enough on its plate without having to worry about soothing the Canadian psyche.

So true, it is all Trudeau's fault...the tariffs on Mexico, China, Japan, European Union... its all Trudeau's fault. I don't like the guy, his policies or his party but there is a line to how much blame I can heap on him for things outside of his control. There is a dark period of time coming for the US and unfortunately we are tied to them as Canadians. When everyone's household expenses balloon by 20-50% due to tariffs and when businesses start closing down because they cannot compete with the exports of other countries the US will be up for a rude awakening but they are the once that elected an individual with zero decency, common-sense or integrity. Hopefully the American people will elect some competent adults in the next election to babysit the spoiled brat in the White House.

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6 hours ago, Signals.Cpl said:

We most definitely know how it is working for them, the price of still just went up by 25% and the American manufacturers and American people have nowhere to turn for reprieve. Everything that requires still at any stage of manufacturing, distribution or storage goes up in price and everything requires at least one of these categories. So the cost will be transferred to the American people right before the elections in November...

 

I don't think Trump sees this as working for him, I think he was under the impression that he will put tariffs on other countries and they will not respond in kind which became obvious as a false assumption on his part when the retaliations came around. I would love to see who he tries to blame for the rising unemployment rate when companies start shutting down and construction slows down dramatically. He took responsibility for Obama's policies that brought unemployment down to it's lowest level in a long time but now he will have to take responsibility for the rise in unemployment as well, or at the very least people will hold him responsible.

If Trump had imposed tariffs on Canadian steel only the US manufacturers could have imported from somewhere else, but he didn't so they can't because wherever they go will be the same price.

We'll just have to wait and see how this turns out for the Americans. 

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3 hours ago, Signals.Cpl said:

There is a dark period of time coming for the US and unfortunately we are tied to them as Canadians.

 

Economic choices made by generations of Canadians and Canadian leadership, not Trump.

The impact of steel and aluminum tariffs on the U.S. is estimated at less than 1% of GDP, and slightly more for Canada.

It's not just about Canada....Chinese steel has been a worldwide dumping problem for many years.

Trudeau is an economic failure not because of Trump's tariffs, but because of other policies that will burden and limit Canada's economy far more.

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