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Conservatives Silent on Homosexuality


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On 6/15/2018 at 4:54 PM, turningrite said:

I believe homosexuality constituted a small aspect of the Wynne government's sex-ed program. And parents today can't stop their kids from seeing an awful of stuff on the internet whether or not it might be considered offensive. Isn't it better to address such materials in an environment where they can be discussed in an open and rational fashion? As I recall, a big focus of opposition to the curriculum emerged in religiously conservative immigrant communities, as I believe was noted during the debate. I think this illustrates a weakness in our multicultural model. And it brings to mind the tragic murder of dozens of people in Orlando Fl. by a young man many believe may have been motivated by a fundamental conflict between his sexual and cultural identities. Most in mainstream Western societies accept the science, which indicates the strong likelihood that sexual orientation is determined by biology and as such shouldn't be addressed as a moral issue. Even if one is religious, the facts suggest it IS part of God's plan. As I said previously, I know little about transsexuality, but there are likely young people out there who are gender conflicted, even if it's a tiny minority. Is it the role of the education system in a compassionate society to make them feel isolated or self-reproachful for having these feelings?

And next we will be talking about how normal it is for people to want to have sex with their cousin or aunt or talk about people who prefer to want to have sex with animals or that it is normal for some people to want to have sex with a baby. I guess that it is all in God's plans, eh? Personally, I think that it is all in the sick and perverted minds of some people and is not a part of any of God's plans. If someone is having a problem with their sexuality well why does the rest of the world have to hear and know about it. Go seek medical help. If you get cancer or a hernia does the rest of the world have to hear about it. These are things that should be left out of public square. If someone has a problem with who they are well do what I would do and go get help. What we have here is a bunch of sick and perverted elite of special interest groups and politicians who are trying to turn the rest of the world into one big gigantic Sodom and Gomorrah playground. Just my opinion of course.  

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7 hours ago, taxme said:

What we have here is a bunch of sick and perverted elite of special interest groups and politicians who are trying to turn the rest of the world into one big gigantic Sodom and Gomorrah playground. Just my opinion of course.  

Well, your last sentence is correct, but unfortunately science doesn't appear to sustain your opinion. I'm not religious at all, which may be the reason I see the impact of religion on this debate as being emotional rather than rational. But hasn't the current Pope said of homosexuality "Who am I to judge?" That seems pretty reasonable.

I attended the gay pride festival/parade several years ago and to tell you the truth it was kind of boring. My sister, who was in town visiting from the U.S., wanted to see the parade, in particular, which featured a lot of organizations with very ordinary looking people marching behind big banners. There were floats, apparently sponsored by bars and big corporations, that featured loud music and go-go boys wearing tight shorts. There were a lot of drag queens, too, but that's not really a big deal these days. We probably stayed for half of it and then decided that maybe there was more going on elsewhere.

I tend to agree with those who say that identity-focused festivals shouldn't obtain public funding but I believe the Toronto gay festival gets relatively little public funding compared to some other events.

Edited by turningrite
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15 hours ago, turningrite said:

Well, your last sentence is correct, but unfortunately science doesn't appear to sustain your opinion. I'm not religious at all, which may be the reason I see the impact of religion on this debate as being emotional rather than rational. But hasn't the current Pope said of homosexuality "Who am I to judge?" That seems pretty reasonable.

I attended the gay pride festival/parade several years ago and to tell you the truth it was kind of boring. My sister, who was in town visiting from the U.S., wanted to see the parade, in particular, which featured a lot of organizations with very ordinary looking people marching behind big banners. There were floats, apparently sponsored by bars and big corporations, that featured loud music and go-go boys wearing tight shorts. There were a lot of drag queens, too, but that's not really a big deal these days. We probably stayed for half of it and then decided that maybe there was more going on elsewhere.

I tend to agree with those who say that identity-focused festivals shouldn't obtain public funding but I believe the Toronto gay festival gets relatively little public funding compared to some other events.

It is suppose to be written in the bible that God despises homosexuality and the Pope is suppose to be backing up God's word. But he apparently does not appear to be doing that these days. I wonder why? I guess that it has something to do with trying to look and appear to be politically correct. The Pope is just a business man anyway and not a religious man. It's all about the money with the catholic church. 

For anyone to attend a parade with gays in it well they must be gay or are thinking about becoming gay. Why would any heterosexuals want to go and watch a bunch of silly ass looking men dressed up as drag queens or lesbians wearing army boots anyway?  It is politicians and corporations and special interest groups that were behind the push and support for the gay movement and gay parades. The ordinary joe and mary sixpack were not behind the push for promoting the gay movement at all. I suppose one could go watch a gay parade just for the fun of it and have a good laugh at watching men prancing around like a bunch of tooth fairies. Whatever turns one on I guess. There should be no way that the taxpayer's should be funding any political or identity focused groups like gays and lesbians. My opinion.  

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21 minutes ago, taxme said:

For anyone to attend a parade with gays in it well they must be gay or are thinking about becoming gay. Why would any heterosexuals want to go and watch a bunch of silly ass looking men dressed up as drag queens or lesbians wearing army boots anyway? 

Wow. Do you watch the news? The parade draws several hundred thousand people a year, drawing heavily I believe from the non-LGBT population based on crowd size estimates as I think it unlikely there are more than a fraction of that number who are actual members of the LGBT community in the GTA. I suspect a lot of people attend for the spectacle and novelty although I think this appeal is overrated. By the way, the only actual sex I witnessed when attending the festival was a young straight couple who had a wild sexual encounter in a port-a-potty at a beer garden. Those of us who were drinking in the vicinity joked that it was a surprising they didn't didn't tip it over. Nobody cared.

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45 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Wow. Do you watch the news? The parade draws several hundred thousand people a year, drawing heavily I believe from the non-LGBT population based on crowd size estimates as I think it unlikely there are more than a fraction of that number who are actual members of the LGBT community in the GTA. I suspect a lot of people attend for the spectacle and novelty although I think this appeal is overrated. By the way, the only actual sex I witnessed when attending the festival was a young straight couple who had a wild sexual encounter in a port-a-potty at a beer garden. Those of us who were drinking in the vicinity joked that it was a surprising they didn't didn't tip it over. Nobody cared.

I guess that you are probably right that most people do come out to watch some men and women make total fools of themselves and they can all have a good laugh at the gays expense. But after the parade is over I wonder as to where their feelings lie when it comes to homosexuality? I think that most of them tolerate it but do not support it. My guess.

Well, at least you saw something happening that is normal for normal people to be doing. Maybe they were trying to make a point that hetero sex is a lot more fun and normal. Indeed they were lucky that they did not tip it over if you get my drift. LOL.  

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Anyway.....if society recognizes sexual orientation as a right, then it's discriminatory to pick and choose which sexual orientation is given that right.    What about pedophilia?  Just like the gay couldn't help it if he's sexually attracted to the same sex, could the pedophile help it if he/she is sexually attracted to children?

 

That's the justification given for sexual orientation, right?   That they're "born" with it.  So, why should it be any different for the pedophile who's also "born" with it?

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Btw, some lesbians and gays do speak out!   One prominent former lesbian, Charlene Coltran  - a radical activist, publisher of Venus magazines -  had renounced homosexuality.    Here's part of her message to AFTAH in 2007.

 

Quote

 

Ex-Lesbian  Charlene Coltran tells AFTAH Banquet that "born gay" claim is a "vicious lie"

 

"If you had told me two years ago that I would be a featured speaker at the Americans For Truth about Homosexuality banquet, I would have laughed in your face! Because I was one of those girls who would have been outside across the street with the gang trying to prevent this from happening.

But God has a way of bringing us full circle, doesn’t He?"  

 

 

“After I gave my heart to Christ, I began to take a closer look at the ministries that we had been trained to hate, and why. Americans For Truth, I want you to know that I am not naive about the nature of the work that you do. I believe that this organization has had to position itself to fight a very ugly and very active and powerful segment of the gay community.

“And I want you to know that this ugly segment of the gay community … does not represent most members of the gay community… Most gays and lesbians are hard-working … good-willed people who would never parade themselves in the nude in front of children down San Francisco [streets] …. It’s just not true. Most gays are not like that.

 

 

“Another very active and powerful segment of the gay community claims that being gay is innate … that all gays are born this way. And I believe that this is the most vicious lie that has been released against God’s people. It is a lie! … This is a lie that was hatched in some boardroom, basically so that we could gain civil rights for gays and lesbians. They needed [something] to level the playing field, and this was the one that went out.

“And I remember back in 1994 when a reporter for a gay newspaper came to interview me about [Venus] magazine. I remember [observing] in that interview just how desperate they were to get this lie out. I never believed it.

“And the young man did the interview and he turned his microphone off. And he then said, ‘Well Ms. Cothran, I want you to say when I turn the microphone back on … that all gays and lesbians are born this way because we need you to influence the African American gay [and lesbian community].

“And I said, ‘Well hold on now! I don’t believe that. I’m not going to say something I don’t believe. Absolutely not!’

“And I felt satisfied that the interview was over and that would be the end of it.

“Well, two weeks later when the article came out, they printed the quote anyway as if I had said it!

“And I learned then just how desperate they were to get this lie out at any cost. They refused to print a retraction. And, again, I learned a lot, right then and there….

“There is no such thing as a gay gene, and they know this. Gay activists know this. They know that their house has been built on a lie. And so now they’re scrambling to come up with something else — anything to prove their case, like a study of homosexuality in animals.

“Well, you know, I could care less about how many male sheep are homosexual [audience laughter], because God did not leave specific instructions on how to live to sheep.[applause] But He gave men and women very specific instructions on how to live through the Word of God.

 

 

more.....

 

https://americansfortruth.com/2007/10/11/ex-lesbian-charlene-cothran-tells-aftah-banquet-that-born-gay-claim-is-vicious-lie/

 

 

Google her name - she's got a lot out there, including videos.   She's still very active today.

 

 

 

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On 6/11/2018 at 10:19 AM, Robert Greene said:

Toronto Pride festival is coming up, and there doesn't seem to be any resistance anymore. Why do you feel conservatives are afraid to defend traditional values, and won't speak up about their concerns over the LGBT indoctrination? You don't even hear the hard right talk about their concerns anymore? What do you think shut them up?

Why are conservatives afraid to speak up?

 

People are speaking out - but they're mostly not covered by the progressive media.   It doesn't help either when a government tries to put a gag on it. 

So, we don't hear them or see them on tv.  But they're out there, speaking out.  They're online!

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4 hours ago, betsy said:

Anyway.....if society recognizes sexual orientation as a right, then it's discriminatory to pick and choose which sexual orientation is given that right.    What about pedophilia?  Just like the gay couldn't help it if he's sexually attracted to the same sex, could the pedophile help it if he/she is sexually attracted to children?

 

That's the justification given for sexual orientation, right?   That they're "born" with it.  So, why should it be any different for the pedophile who's also "born" with it?

You really don't know?  Maybe you should ask Jesus what he would do.

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7 hours ago, betsy said:

Anyway.....if society recognizes sexual orientation as a right, then it's discriminatory to pick and choose which sexual orientation is given that right.    What about pedophilia?  Just like the gay couldn't help it if he's sexually attracted to the same sex, could the pedophile help it if he/she is sexually attracted to children?

 

That's the justification given for sexual orientation, right?   That they're "born" with it.  So, why should it be any different for the pedophile who's also "born" with it?

Depicting gay men as a threat to children by comparing them to pedophiles is a common ploy of religious fanatics.

According to the American Psychological Association, sexual orientation refers to heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality - not paraphillias such as pedophilia, which are sexual urges or behaviour that is directed at non-consenting persons or those unable to consent (children, dead people or animals) or that involve another person's phycological distress, injury or death.

There are a great many scientific studies that show homosexuality is the result of genetic and environmental factors - What????  That's right - Exactly the same as any other sexual orientation, be it heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality.

"Sexual orientation therapy" -  as endorsed by religiously  motivated anti-gay activists such as yourself, Betsy - has been REJECTED by all the reputable medical, psychiatric, psychological and professional counseling organizations.  In fact in 2009, anti-gay therapy was thoroughly denounced by the American Phychiatric Association.

It's also been rejected by many anti-gay therapy groups:

Quote

 

The founder of Exodus International, Michael Bussee, left the organization in 1979 with a fellow male ex-gay counselor because the two had fallen in love. Other examples include George Rekers, a former board member of NARTH and formerly a leading scholar of the anti-LGBT Christian right who was revealed to have been involved in a same-sex tryst in 2010. John Paulk, former poster child of the massive ex-gay campaign “Love Won Out” in the late 1990s, is now living as a happy gay man. And Robert Spitzer, a preeminent psychiatrist whose 2001 research that seemed to indicate that some gay people had changed their orientation, repudiated his own study in 2012. The Spitzer study had been widely used by anti-LGBT organizations as “proof” that sexual orientation can change.

In 2013, Exodus International, formerly one of the largest ex-gay ministries in the world, shut down after its director, Alan Chambers, issued an apology to the LGBT community. Chambers, who is married to a woman, has acknowledged that his same-sex attraction has not changed. At a 2012 conference, he said: “The majority of people that I have met, and I would say the majority meaning 99.9% of them, have not experienced a change in their orientation or have gotten to a place where they could say they could never be tempted or are not tempted in some way or experience some level of same-sex attraction.”

 

Homosexulaity is not a mental disorder or an illness, it doesn't need a "cure". Gay people want loving, close relationships like the rest of us, because it's a normal part of a flourishing human life.  This is not the case with pedophiles.  Pedophiles are not seeking loving, close relationships with an equal partner.

And it is unreasonable to require people with healthy sexualities to abstain from sex.  But I assume you know that already as a Christian, since the Catholic requirement of celibacy for priests has proven to be disastrous and the Pope has seriously considered doing away with the doctrine.

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Depicting gay men as a threat to children by comparing them to pedophiles is a common ploy of religious fanatics..

Lol.   Gay people are so touchy with the mention of pedophilia.   What?   I can't mention pedophilia?  

You react like as if I'm trying to laser the label "pedophile" on your forehead!    :) 

 

We aren't going to go elsewhere until we settle this.   Before we proceed, answer these: 

Isn't pedophilia a sexual orientation?   Yes, or no?

Do you think pedophiles are born like this?  Yes, or no?

 

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8 hours ago, betsy said:

Anyway.....if society recognizes sexual orientation as a right, then it's discriminatory to pick and choose which sexual orientation is given that right.    What about pedophilia?  Just like the gay couldn't help it if he's sexually attracted to the same sex, could the pedophile help it if he/she is sexually attracted to children?

 

Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation, rather it's a form of deviant behavior that exists among all sexual orientations. In my opinion, drawing a connection between pedophilia and homosexuality is an oft-used tactic that intends to equate homosexuality with sexual deviancy. If we were to apply your logic in a logical fashion, all except asexuals could be characterized as sexual deviants. The emerging scientific consensus is that sexual orientation is most likely biological, at least for males. But I guess this is inconvenient to your argument, right?

https://brocku.ca/brock-news/2017/12/new-research-solidifies-idea-that-sexual-orientation-is-biological/

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

Homosexulaity is not a mental disorder or an illness, it doesn't need a "cure".

Well....homosexuality isn't the only "other" sexual orientation that exists aside from heterosexuality.

What about pedophilia?  

 

 

Quote

 

Paedophilia a 'sexual orientation - like being straight or gay'

A paedophile has the 'same ingrained attraction that a heterosexual female may feel towards a male', psychologist says

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/paedophilia-sexual-orientation-straight-gay-criminal-psychologist-child-sex-abuse-a6965956.html

 

 

Do you agree that it's a sexual orientation?  

Do you think, that just like being born gay.....they're also born that way?

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13 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation, rather it's a form of deviant behavior that exists among all sexual orientations

 

I tend to agree with you!  

But......if society is recognizing homosexuality as a sexual orientation just because gay people claim it is......why shouldn't pedophiles who also make the same claim, be given the same right?  

 

There is no scientific proof that people are born gay!  Someone no doubt will point to the so-called "gay genes."  

Why are we suddenly looking for gay genes?  And voila.....eureka, someone claimed to have found it!    :lol:

 

Anyway, before we get all excited about these genes.....

 
 
Quote

 

Putative Gay Genes Identified, Questioned

 

Many researchers expressed skepticism about the results. “This study is way, way, way too small to draw any meaningful conclusion,” Jeffrey Barrett of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute says in a statement for Science Media Centre (SMC). “None of their findings meets the accepted thresholds for statistical significance in a genome-wide association study (which is why it is published in Scientific Reports). The comments about SLITRK6 and TSHR are utter speculation, and don’t belong anywhere near a modern genetic study—we had decades of such claims that never held up because they didn’t meet statistical significance.”

 

https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/51120/title/Putative-Gay-Genes-Identified--Questioned/

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25 minutes ago, betsy said:

I tend to agree with you!  

But......if society is recognizing homosexuality as a sexual orientation just because gay people claim it is......why shouldn't pedophiles who also make the same claim, be given the same right?  

 

There is no scientific proof that people are born gay!  Someone no doubt will point to the so-called "gay genes."  

Why are we suddenly looking for gay genes?  And voila.....eureka, someone claimed to have found it!    :lol:

 

Anyway, before we get all excited about these genes.....

As the article I've provided a link to notes, there's probably a multifactoral biological explanation for homosexuality, particularly among males. As the emerging research appears to suggest there are likely hormonal and immune system- related bases for homosexuality, it seems possible that the incidence of male homosexuality might be able to be reduced in the future with various interventions, including family planning to reduce the frequency of births, particularly following the prior birth of a male, and possibly with hormonal treatments for pregnant women and/or those contemplating getting pregnant. I think these potential scientific advancements should have people who dislike homosexuality, and particularly male homosexuality, cheering.

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45 minutes ago, betsy said:

Lol.   Gay people are so touchy with the mention of pedophilia.   What?   I can't mention pedophilia?  

You react like as if I'm trying to laser the label "pedophile" on your forehead!    :) 

 

We aren't going to go elsewhere until we settle this.   Before we proceed, answer these: 

Isn't pedophilia a sexual orientation?   Yes, or no?

Do you think pedophiles are born like this?  Yes, or no?

 

Betsy, did you read what I wrote before you commented?

Your questions were answered in my post.

Wipe the foam off your mouth and try again.

 

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But......if society is recognizing homosexuality as a sexual orientation just because gay people claim it is......why shouldn't pedophiles who also make the same claim, be given the same right?  

Answered in my post.

 

Quote

There is no scientific proof that people are born gay! 

Just because you refuse to read or acknowledge the proof, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Betsy, did you read what I wrote before you commented?

Your questions were answered in my post.

Wipe the foam off your mouth and try again.

 

No, your post didn't address the specific question that I asked you.   I gave a source that says it is. 

It is irrelevant if people want to have lasting relationships or not.   I'm asking you if you think people who are sexually attracted to children, are born that way.

 

Do you think pedophilia is a sexual orientation?  I gave a source that says it is.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Answered in my post.

 

Just because you refuse to read or acknowledge the proof, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

 

What proof did you give?   Like the guy who said he can't become heterosexual?   That's not  proof - I have also tons of proofs to negate that. 

I know personally 3 gays who are now married.  I have re-connected with one of them, and he's a grandfather.....and there's no trace of his gay-ness from what I read and see!  I never brought back the past - didn't ask him about it.

I'm talking about scientific proof. 

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9 minutes ago, betsy said:

Do you think pedophilia is a sexual orientation?  I gave a source that says it is.

Since you're having trouble today, I'll recap from my last post where I answered the question:

Quote

According to the American Psychiatric Association, sexual orientation refers to heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality - not paraphillias such as pedophilia, which are sexual urges or behaviour that is directed at non-consenting persons or those unable to consent (children, dead people or animals) or that involve another person's phycological distress, injury or death.

Since you're having trouble today, I'll tell you what that means - it means No. Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, not a sexual orientation, for the reasons stated above by the APA.

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1 minute ago, Goddess said:

Since you're having trouble today, I'll recap from my last post where I answered the question:

Since you're having trouble today, I'll tell you what that means - it means No. Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, not a sexual orientation, for the reasons stated above by the APA.

Cite the link to your source - the APA, please.  I want to read it for myself.

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12 minutes ago, betsy said:

I'm talking about scientific proof. 

There is lots of it out there, Betsy.  All you have to do is look.

I'm sorrynotsorry, but I am going to go with what the majority of the scientic community has stated.  I need more than just "It says homosexuality is bad in the Bible".  It also says eating shellfish is bad for you, and that you should never mix fabric blends, soooooooooo.......I take the Bible with a grain of salt. ;)

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1 minute ago, betsy said:

Cite the link to your source - the APA, please.  I want to read it for myself.

I don't know about you, but I've found Google particularly helpful when I want to find out about something.  But here you go, read away!

Of course, none of the science will change your mind because....."The Bible says so."

google.JPG

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9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

There is lots of it out there, Betsy.  All you have to do is look.

I'm sorrynotsorry, but I am going to go with what the majority of the scientic community has stated.  I need more than just "It says homosexuality is bad in the Bible".  It also says eating shellfish is bad for you, and that you should never mix fabric blends, soooooooooo.......I take the Bible with a grain of salt. ;)

Well....here it is, Goddess.  No wonder you won't give the link....:D

 

The APA adjusted their classification.

 

 

Quote

It’s also true that the DSM-5 slightly adjusted their classification of pedophilia, defining it as “a sexual orientation or profession of sexual preference devoid of consummation,” and supplanting the common usage of the word with “pedophilic disorder,”

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/american-psychiatric-association-pedophilia/

 

Quote

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) is the 2013 update to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the taxonomic and diagnostic tool published by the American Psychiatric Association (APA).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5

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6 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I don't know about you, but I've found Google particularly helpful when I want to find out about something.  But here you go, read away!

Of course, none of the science will change your mind because....."The Bible says so."

google.JPG

You know, not everything is legit on a google page, don't you?   You have to determine if the sources has any credibility.

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