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betsy

Gay-Straight Alliance Club

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Don't ever think that certain ideology isn't out to undermine the parental authority and values of parents.   You saw what Kathleen Wynne did with the sex-ed curricullum.  

In Alberta, Notley banned schools from informing parents if their children had joined a certain club:  the Gay-Straight Alliance Club.

Now, all eyes on Alberta for this court challenge.

 

 

Quote

 

Closely watched Alberta gay-straight alliance challenge fills courtroom

 

Leading the challenge is the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms, which argues that keeping parents out of the loop violates charter rights including freedom of religion and expression.

The group calls gay-straight alliances "ideological sexual clubs" that make graphic information on gay sex available.

The Alberta government and others have argued that schools shouldn't inform parents if their children join the peer groups because there is the potential to "out" them to guardians who may not be accepting.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-gay-straight-alliance-gsa-court-challenge-1.4714137

 

If you're a parent.....do you want to be informed, or not?

 

Edited by betsy

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The Alberta government and others have argued that schools shouldn't inform parents if their children join the peer groups because there is the potential to "out" them to guardians who may not be accepting. The Alberta government and others have argued that schools shouldn't inform parents if their children join the peer groups because there is the potential to "out" them to guardians who may not be accepting.

 

As a parent, I would like to be informed.     There is another side to being "outed" to parents.   Some kids just don't know how to break the ice with their parents - they don't know how to start the conversation to inform parents how they feel.   Being "outed" by the school offers the perfect beginning to a dialogue between parents and child.   The parent is given the opportunity to be the one to bring up the subject, and that provides the opening for the child to talk to his parents about it.

 

A lot of confusion with sexuality at that young age.  That kind of confusion can easily be exploited.   You don't want your children to get information ONLY from an agenda-driven source anymore than you'd want to get information ONLY from any agenda-driven source. 

 

 

Edited by betsy

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Kids can decide when they want to talk about such things with their parents on their own time. They don't need you or anybody else butting their noses into their personal business. MYOB.

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I'm on the fence about this.  I don't think these clubs are the same as the Chess Club, however the student has the right to pursue knowledge on their own outside the classroom.  Clubs are quasi-educational as they are hosted at school facilities, presumably with a teacher-facilitator.  But on the other side, there is nothing about a GSA that contradicts religion as far as I can see, ie. associating with gay people isn't a sin.

It is really a shame when parents mistrust their children so much that we need a court case to enforce tattling on their children.  I don't see such interactions working well for the families.  

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Don't want to start a new thread but since you mentioned Kathleen Wynne and Ontario's sex-ed, I thought I'd add this anecdote. The 9 year old daughter of a close friend came home from school last week and frantically wanted to speak with her mother - but in her room with the door closed so nobody could hear. I'm paraphrasing but in her own words, this is what she told her Mom. In her health class, the teacher had told her that people have hormones and chemicals in their brains that can turn a man into a woman or a woman into a man. This could happen at any time of their life. This poor 9 year old was frightened that she was going to wake up as a man. Talk about nightmares!!! They also covered physical elements like "penises can be small and large. Luckily, the young girl and her Mom had a good relationship and was able to talk it through - other kids might not be so lucky.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Don't want to start a new thread but since you mentioned Kathleen Wynne and Ontario's sex-ed, I thought I'd add this anecdote. The 9 year old daughter of a close friend came home from school last week and frantically wanted to speak with her mother - but in her room with the door closed so nobody could hear. I'm paraphrasing but in her own words, this is what she told her Mom. In her health class, the teacher had told her that people have hormones and chemicals in their brains that can turn a man into a woman or a woman into a man. This could happen at any time of their life. This poor 9 year old was frightened that she was going to wake up as a man. Talk about nightmares!!! They also covered physical elements like "penises can be small and large. Luckily, the young girl and her Mom had a good relationship and was able to talk it through - other kids might not be so lucky.

 

 

But can you imagine how such information might be helpful to a little girl or boy who doesn't identify with their assigned gender? 

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14 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

But can you imagine how such information might be helpful to a little girl or boy who doesn't identify with their assigned gender? 

Not at the expense of nightmares for 95% of the children who will not experience any of this stuff. 

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5 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Not at the expense of nightmares for 95% of the children who will not experience any of this stuff. 

Yes - these questions should be followed up on.

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8 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Not at the expense of nightmares for 95% of the children who will not experience any of this stuff. 

True. I don't think your anecdote suggests that 95% of children are having nightmares though. That just sounds like it could have been communicated better, but that ultimately what was said was true.

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3 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Don't want to start a new thread but since you mentioned Kathleen Wynne and Ontario's sex-ed, I thought I'd add this anecdote. The 9 year old daughter of a close friend came home from school last week and frantically wanted to speak with her mother - but in her room with the door closed so nobody could hear. I'm paraphrasing but in her own words, this is what she told her Mom. In her health class, the teacher had told her that people have hormones and chemicals in their brains that can turn a man into a woman or a woman into a man. This could happen at any time of their life. This poor 9 year old was frightened that she was going to wake up as a man. Talk about nightmares!!! They also covered physical elements like "penises can be small and large. Luckily, the young girl and her Mom had a good relationship and was able to talk it through - other kids might not be so lucky.

 

 

You have to wonder how well trained the teacher was on these matters? I recall an instance when I was in the work world where the employer was conducting diversity sensitivity training. Most of the trainers were simply managers who were assigned to address with staff a package of materials. In one group, the trainer didn't apparently understand pretty basic distinctions relating to some ethno-racial groups, which led to consternation among the participants, most of whom were well educated and found the training to be condescending. I guess the lesson is that if you want to effectively address controversial and complex issues you need to ensure you do so with properly qualified and trained personnel who understand the content of the materials they're working with as well as the strengths and limitations of the audience(s) they're addressing.

Edited by turningrite

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That's exactly right. The problem isn't that these issues are being addressed. The problem stems from an anecdote about a particular teacher who could have probably done a better job talking about the issues so that a particular child didn't get disturbed by a misunderstanding. It doesn't hurt children to be aware that some people do not identify with their assigned gender, and there are ways for the communication of that information to be done appropriately.

But as for gay-straight alliances, I don't see why parents need to know if the student doesn't want them to know.

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2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

But can you imagine how such information might be helpful to a little girl or boy who doesn't identify with their assigned gender? 

I'm unaware of any scientific basis for the idea chemical or hormonal changes can occur through ones life that would make one believe they were of the opposite gender.

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1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

True. I don't think your anecdote suggests that 95% of children are having nightmares though. That just sounds like it could have been communicated better, but that ultimately what was said was true.

You got that right! There's a whole context that's missing. We want our children to be non-discriminatory but if "normalizing" is the goal - a sense of proportion is required so that kids know that this type of genetic/hormonal make-up, to the best of our current knowledge, occurs only in about 5% of the population.........but it's as normal as red hair or green eyes (2% of the population).

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9 minutes ago, Argus said:

I'm unaware of any scientific basis for the idea chemical or hormonal changes can occur through ones life that would make one believe they were of the opposite gender.

The science is not conclusive, but there are indications of differences in the brain development of trans people versus cis people.

https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/51914/title/Are-the-Brains-of-Transgender-People-Different-from-Those-of-Cisgender-People-/ 

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Kids don't talk to parents if they don't trust them; they do talk to parents they trust.  Existence of a club doesn't change that basic fact.  Parents who are "out of the loop" on their kids lives need to look at their relationship with their kids rather than assume other people have to keep them up to speed.

Gay kids want to be accepted by their parents but when (some) Christian parents would respond with outright rejection or desperate and intrusive attempts to "fix" them, is it any wonder they would prefer to keep this facet of their life from parents who would try to bully them into being different?

The problem isn't the schools "keeping things" from parents or clubs that make being gay desirable.  Its the ancient religious doctrines that makes being gay a sin that is the problem.

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44 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

The science is not conclusive, but there are indications of differences in the brain development of trans people versus cis people.

https://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/51914/title/Are-the-Brains-of-Transgender-People-Different-from-Those-of-Cisgender-People-/ 

As unproven as this theory is it refers to brain development in utero, not to hormonal or chemical changes which can happen throughout life.

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16 minutes ago, Argus said:

As unproven as this theory is it refers to brain development in utero, not to hormonal or chemical changes which can happen throughout life.

True. And if the anecdote as provided is true, it's already agreed that the teacher could have done a better job. Perhaps if they followed the prescribed curriculum properly, it wouldn't have been a problem.

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4 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Don't want to start a new thread but since you mentioned Kathleen Wynne and Ontario's sex-ed, I thought I'd add this anecdote. The 9 year old daughter of a close friend came home from school last week and frantically wanted to speak with her mother - but in her room with the door closed so nobody could hear. I'm paraphrasing but in her own words, this is what she told her Mom. In her health class, the teacher had told her that people have hormones and chemicals in their brains that can turn a man into a woman or a woman into a man. This could happen at any time of their life. This poor 9 year old was frightened that she was going to wake up as a man. Talk about nightmares!!! They also covered physical elements like "penises can be small and large. Luckily, the young girl and her Mom had a good relationship and was able to talk it through - other kids might not be so lucky.

 

 

I don't know if you'd heard of the education board's website that gave sex information to kids.   It was x-rated!   It even included information on masturbating with vegetables!  People were aghast!  They took it down.  This was about 5 or 6 years ago.....

 

 

here, I found it:

 

Quote

 

Toronto school board web link offers kinky sex advice

An astounding link on the Toronto District School Board website which entices children to experiment sexually with vegetables has a Christian group calling for a criminal investigation.

Yet, on the TDSB site, you will find — under the heading Coalition for Positive Sexuality — a link called “Just Say Yes, pro sex” which champions encounters with vegetables and other experimental options.

  It describes how an individual “could suck, kiss, touch, bite, fondle, nibble, squeeze and lick someone’s body, nipples, calves, toes, neck” and other areas. It talks of masturbation in front of the mirror, acting out fantasies and using sex toys.

http://torontosun.com/2012/09/26/sex-advice-on-tdsb-website-angers-christian-advocate/wcm/404d25fc-7026-46e4-981c-4022fd17a13c

Just say yes?????

 

 

That's the kind of liberal climate we have now - of course, they're not so stupid to come out so blatantly, considering there are still folks who will challenge them openly!

 

They're undermining parental authority, and corrupting kids to their ideology.   Don't ever immagine that this new marijuana legislation isn't a part of it.   Expect a spike on teen pregnancy.....and road accidents!

Edited by betsy

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10 hours ago, betsy said:

Don't ever think that certain ideology isn't out to undermine the parental authority and values of parents.   You saw what Kathleen Wynne did with the sex-ed curricullum.  

In Alberta, Notley banned schools from informing parents if their children had joined a certain club:  the Gay-Straight Alliance Club.

Now, all eyes on Alberta for this court challenge.

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-gay-straight-alliance-gsa-court-challenge-1.4714137

 

If you're a parent.....do you want to be informed, or not?

 

Wynne is now gone and with her is her Sodom and Gomorrah sex agenda curriculum and hopefully Notley will be next. It all just shows that the liberals and the NDP are nothing more than and act more like a bunch of communists. They believe in big government and that government has the answer and will take care of your children and will control what they can do or say or think and the parents must accept this and go pound sand. The parents need to understand that they are the boss of their own children not the likes of left wing liberal fools like Wynne or NDP communist Notley. The longer the liberals and the NDP are allowed to have an influence on Canadian society the worse things will always get. They are totally clueless people who only run on emotion and foolish nonsense talk and way short of ever being able to use any kind of common sense and logic at all. Their socialist/communist programs and agendas always make life miserable for the majority of the Canadian people who do not want to have anything to do with them and their stupid ass ridiculous communist policies. My opinion. 

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53 minutes ago, betsy said:

I don't know if you'd heard of the education board's website that gave sex information to kids.   It was x-rated!   It even included information on masturbating with vegetables!  People were aghast!  They took it down.  This was about 5 or 6 years ago.....

 

 

Were you aware your link indicated it wasn't the Toronto School Board's website, but a third-party link that was inadvertently put on the website. Are you aware that the content on third-party links can change overnight, so that appropriate content one day can suddenly be replaced with inappropriate content, and the only way you would know is to continually check the links?

So the only evidence of this vast conspiracy to undermine our youth is a link to something created by a third party that was somewhat innocuous but still inappropriate. If they removed the link as soon as they found out about it, would that undermine your conspiracy theory? 

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10 minutes ago, taxme said:

Wynne is now gone and with her is her Sodom and Gomorrah sex agenda curriculum and hopefully Notley will be next. It all just shows that the liberals and the NDP are nothing more than and act more like a bunch of communists. They believe in big government and that government has the answer and will take care of your children and will control what they can do or say or think and the parents must accept this and go pound sand. The parents need to understand that they are the boss of their own children not the likes of left wing liberal fools like Wynne or NDP communist Notley. The longer the liberals and the NDP are allowed to have an influence on Canadian society the worse things will always get. They are totally clueless people who only run on emotion and foolish nonsense talk and way short of ever being able to use any kind of common sense and logic at all. Their socialist/communist programs and agendas always make life miserable for the majority of the Canadian people who do not want to have anything to do with them and their stupid ass ridiculous communist policies. My opinion. 

Wynne may be gone, but the problem isn't.   The socialists/coimmunist mentality also include the alt-left.  

One of the characteristics of an alt-left is being a rabid anti-religion. 

Edited by betsy

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3 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Were you aware your link indicated it wasn't the Toronto School Board's website, but a third-party link that was inadvertently put on the website. Are you aware that the content on third-party links can change overnight, so that appropriate content one day can suddenly be replaced with inappropriate content, and the only way you would know is to continually check the links?

So the only evidence of this vast conspiracy to undermine our youth is a link to something created by a third party that was somewhat innocuous but still inappropriate. If they removed the link as soon as they found out about it, would that undermine your conspiracy theory? 

 

Ultimately, the responsibility ends with the Toronto School Board.  That link ended up in their website, right?  

Anyway.....that's moot now.   If you're determined to get to that issue, create a thread for it.

Edited by betsy

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3 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Ultimately, the responsibility ends with the Toronto School Board.  That link ended up in their website, right?  

 

Sure, but there are thousands of links in hundreds of different web pages and print documents. I'm sure they removed that one when they were made aware of it. It's hardly evidence of a vast left-wing conspiracy to corrupt the children.

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55 minutes ago, betsy said:

I don't know if you'd heard of the education board's website that gave sex information to kids.   It was x-rated!   It even included information on masturbating with vegetables!  People were aghast!  They took it down.  This was about 5 or 6 years ago.....

 

 

here, I found it:

 

http://torontosun.com/2012/09/26/sex-advice-on-tdsb-website-angers-christian-advocate/wcm/404d25fc-7026-46e4-981c-4022fd17a13c

Just say yes?????

 

 

That's the kind of liberal climate we have now - of course, they're not so stupid to come out so blatantly, considering there are still folks who will challenge them openly!

 

They're undermining parental authority, and corrupting kids to their ideology.   Don't ever immagine that this new marijuana legislation isn't a part of it.   Expect a spike on teen pregnancy.....and road accidents!

It would appear to me that it is time to abolish that liberal left wing Toronto education board and start from scratch. It has to be done now. Hopefully Doug Ford will take me up on my suggestion and do something about what the education system is doing to and teaching our children. This all just reminds me of communist indoctrination. 

 

 

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