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America's gun problem or is it?


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30 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canadians support strong gun control among other policies that the US doesn’t currently support.  We wish to retain all of the laws and protections that our people enact and continue to choose.  Don’t ever fuck with that. 

 

But Canada wants the United States, even with all of its guns, death penalty, rogue president, for-profit health care, etc. to be the majority force to keep the "post WW2 order"...because Canada can't.

Another 800,000 firearms will be sold this month in the USA, and another 800,000 next month, and thousands more each and every month thereafter.   

And there is nothing Canada can do about it.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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49 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canadians support strong gun control among other policies that the US doesn’t currently support.  We wish to retain all of the laws and protections that our people enact and continue to choose.  Don’t ever fuck with that. 

 

The American Liberal order is breaking down, even you Liberals have become fascist, you don't even notice your own fascism,  it's not me who is going to burn you in a fire of your own making, fascist, you will burn yourself, I am simply refusing to try to save you, and every other Canadian, from themselves. 

 

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34 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

But Canada wants the United States, even with all of its guns, death penalty, rogue president, for-profit health care, etc. to be the majority force to keep the "post WW2 order"...because Canada can't.

Another 800,000 firearms will be sold this month in the USA, and another 800,000 next month, and thousands more each and every month thereafter.   

And there is nothing Canada can do about it.

Well even a very scaled down US military combined with the UK, France, and other NATO members is plenty formidable.  Canada is upping its military spending and should go further.  

I agree that Canada can do nothing to prevent US domestic gun purchases.  We have our message and example, which does carry weight in media and statistical analysis.  Data is powerful and America’s number of gun related deaths speaks volumes.  Canadians respect that Americans choose their own reality. 

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12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

 

The American Liberal order is breaking down, even you Liberals have become fascist, you don't even notice your own fascism,  it's not me who is going to burn you in a fire of your own making, fascist, you will burn yourself, I am simply refusing to try to save you, and every other Canadian, from themselves. 

 

Give one example of my liberal “fascism”.  I didn’t vote Liberal.  My comments about FEMA camps were obviously facetious.  I like to poke fun at the alt-right and anti-Globalists, because I think they pose real dangers that are worse than our current immigration policies or UN agendas. 

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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Give one example of my liberal “fascism”.  I didn’t vote Liberal.  My comments about FEMA camps were obviously facetious.  I like to poke fun at the alt-right and anti-Globalists, because I think they pose real dangers that are worse than our current immigration policies or UN agendas. 

Your statement was inherently fascistic, first you asserted that you and your views represent Canada writ large, "our people will enact blah, blah, blah"

Then you in essence told me not to fuck with you, a threat of force for daring to dissent.

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1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

Your statement was inherently fascistic, first you asserted that you and your views represent Canada writ large, "our people will enact blah, blah, blah"

Then you in essence told me not to fuck with you, a threat of force for daring to dissent.

I said that no one should fuck with a people’s self-determination and I stand by that.  My statements were basically Canada’s official positions and historical record.  They’re broad strokes positions.  As always the devil is in the details.  That’s where it breaks down into particular party or individual stances.  Canada’s official stances have changed little from Mulroney to Trudeau.  

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On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 1:50 PM, Dougie93 said:

Contrary to popular myth in Canada, Canada did not fight the Second World War.  The British fought the Second World War, Canada provided troops to the British.

The British mostly used them as disposable cannon fodder, because the Canadian government was eager to suck up to the British, so they encouraged the British to use Canadian troops as cannon fodder.

You've gone too far n. Ease up. You and I know many Canadian war vets who would disagree with the above. Don't white wash them all as idiot puppets. Tell me if I am wrong  if you want but Rear Admiral Murray and Commander Prentice were no puppets and neither was Air Marshall Edwards or Maj Gen. Hoffmeister for example. Yes the allied forces were loyal to the British command to an extent but come on we had some powerful men who did their own damn thing when they had to.

I also think and you are well aware we considered Churchill our leader and our military was genuinely an admirer of Churchill and King George nnot McKenzie King who was an embarrassment.

Back on topic our country was founded by people who wanted to keep paying taxes to King George. We rejected the gun in favour of North West Mounted Police with no  We are a nation that went so far with Lester B. Pearson so as  to reinvent the gunless soldier, the peacekeeper. Hell we love leaders that lisp like Lester and Justin or are close to their mothers like Justin and Willie McKenzie King. Hell our first Prime Minister was a projectile vomiter in Parliament-that's the only thing he shot off. Diefenbaker damn near striked out over John F's missiles.

We do not embrace  gun swagger.

I think if anyone analyzes our military history, most of our generals and military  leaders of W2 who made a difference never cared to suck up to anyone but did have a chain of command they honoured yes. I think you mistake our loyalty with sucking up. That was a genuine loyalty. No one told my father and his peers to suck up to any Brit. They genuinely admired Churchill and felt a genuine loyalty to the King. It kept some of them focused on what they were fighting for. The King of England was another understated quiet leader but he was a leader. He showed up in the bombings and he carried the weight his brother abandoned not with swagger but with quite dignity. Say what you want about Churchill but his persona was not flashy it was rough, brash, crude, but always respectful of  the life of each soldier. He drank himself to oblivion worrying over how many people he was getting killed...and people knew that beneath the brave façade was a caring man a true antithesis to Hitler and Stalin.

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5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I said that no one should fuck with a people’s self-determination and I stand by that. 

That's not what you said, you said don't fuck with you and your Liberals buddies,  and I'm quite a sure a judge would agree with my interpretation

Edited by Dougie93
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35 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

 

The American Liberal order is breaking down, even you Liberals have become fascist, you don't even notice your own fascism,  it's not me who is going to burn you in a fire of your own making, fascist, you will burn yourself, I am simply refusing to try to save you, and every other Canadian, from themselves. 

 

Z is a middle of the roader like many of us on this forum.  You have to read all his posts. He is a genuine middle of the roader. He's also no fascist. He has opinions on all sides of the equation depending on the issues. You'll be wrong if you label him left or right or anything he is just a Z-man.

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20 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

...I agree that Canada can do nothing to prevent US domestic gun purchases.  We have our message and example, which does carry weight in media and statistical analysis.  Data is powerful and America’s number of gun related deaths speaks volumes.  Canadians respect that Americans choose their own reality. 

 

Canada is hardly the best example for gun control and firearms deaths, being one of the highest rate OECD nations.

Data is powerful,  and America does a better job aggregating same according to Canadian media reports and access, even for guns.

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3 minutes ago, Rue said:

Z is a middle of the roader like many of us on this forum.  You have to read all his posts. He is a genuine middle of the roader. He's also no fascist. He has opinions on all sides of the equation depending on the issues. You'll be wrong if you label him left or right or anything he is just a Z-man.

Someone is a fascist where they assert themselves to be proxy for the state, and then issue threats to those who would dissent from the state.

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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Ha ha talk about over sensitivity.  I’m not a supporter of the Liberals.  I didn’t vote for them as you did. 

Not a question of sensitivity, just calling out fascism where I see it.  You are a Liberal in ideology, fascistically  rallying around your sad and failing Liberal order.

Unlike Liberals, I don't think fascism is a crime, I still call it what it is when I see it tho.

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7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Canada is hardly the best example for gun control and firearms deaths, being one of the highest rate OECD nations.

Data is powerful,  and America does a better job aggregating same according to Canadian media reports and access, even for guns.

Yes, Canada can do better on gun control. Yes, great data analysis happens in the US as in many countries. 

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20 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The whole Canadian motif of asserting America to be a Reb Menace at the gates, therefore you must rally around a draconian police state to defend you, is fascistic in of itself, that's exactly what Putin says, from the Kremlin.

What police?  Pretty relaxed here I’d say.  You seem to enjoy Wellington County.  Just have to shovel these damn ice pellets of the driveway!

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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

What police?  Pretty relaxed here I’d say.  You seem to enjoy Wellington County.  Just have to shovel these damn ice pellets of the driveway!

It's not relaxed, I am just law abiding with military precision, people getting arrested around here all the time for all sorts of draconian bad law making, they're just heat scores and I am not.

 

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I even notice that two cops got arrested over the weekend, one of them the Peel Police union boss, and for what?  Blowing .8 over the limit? That's not drunk driving, that's just a draconian Temperance Lady eating her own.

And how did they get busted?  The Liberals changed the law so that no probable cause is required to search, which by British common law, is about as draconian as draconian can be.

If that is how they treat their own cops, how do you think they are going to deal with you?

Edited by Dougie93
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3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I even notice that two cops got arrested over the weekend, one of them the Peel Police union boss, and for what?  Blowing .8 over the limit? That's not drunk driving, that's just a draconian Temperance Lady eating her own.

You should know that it would be far worse in some US states to be pulled over by a state trooper for a similar offence.  I disagree with the public shaming of drunk drivers on Twitter because I think that’s a form of sentence that didn’t result from a trial. It destroys reputations.  That bothers me.  On the other hand look at how the mere accusation of sexual harassment is destroying reputations and careers throughout the continent.  Social media amplifies accusations, charges, and punishments.  

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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You should know that it would be far worse in some US states to be pulled over by a state trooper for a similar offence.

Again, invoking the American Reb Menace as justification for the Liberals overthrowing probable cause, is inherently fascistic, that is the fasces rallying around a tyrant, in the name of defending us from ourselves.

Edited by Dougie93
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6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You should know that it would be far worse in some US states to be pulled over by a state trooper for a similar offence.  I disagree with the public shaming of drunk drivers on Twitter because I think that’s a form of sentence that didn’t result from a trial. It destroys reputations.  That bothers me.  On the other hand look at how the mere accusation of sexual harassment is destroying reputations and careers throughout the continent.  Social media amplifies accusations, charges, and punishments.  

 

But that is exactly how drunk driving and smoking were shamed to much lower levels.   The same thing is being tried for guns, but it doesn't work...the opposite happens.

Driving and smoking in public places are not constitutional rights.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Again, invoking the American Reb Menace as justification for the Liberals overthrowing probable cause, is inherently fascistic, that is the fasces rallying around a tyrant, in the name of defending us from ourselves.

I fear Canadian police less than American ones, but maybe that’s perception because of the publicity over the bad apples who shot blacks for next to nothing.  Personally I think we’re all over policed and I support the snowflake policy of cutting spending on police to pay for more community supports, to get to the root of the social problems that cause crime. 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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