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paxamericana

Canada should renounce democracy

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Not to single you out canada but all nato-dead beat should renounce the virtue of a free liberal democracy. Why? Because you people are not willing to pay for it. Not willing to pay the ultimate price for freedom. Being under America's security umbrella has given these country un-precedented wealth and prosperity. Money that could be allocated to America's health care and other social policy has been in turn used to make up for our dead beat allies. 

I propose that in keeping with the wishes of both countries, Canada should quickly kowtow to beijing or russia. Renounce any notion of a free and independent country. Turn into hongkong, and elect leaders that are pre approved by the central government. It will make the Russian election meddling look like child's play. Criticism of the central government would be suppress and all dissidents will quickly disappear. Free and independent press would no longer be necessary. George orwell would turn over in his grave at the level of dystopia. But these issue are a small price to pay for getting rid of obnoxious American fascism. 

 

PS, i still love you Canada, but this is tough love.

Edited by paxrom

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Okay, yeah, sorry about that.  You can stop now.  Sort out your healthcare system instead. We'll manage.

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If America wanted to take care of it's citizens rather than wage war in other countries, it would.   America has aggressively pursued it's destiny; whining about it now just makes you look foolish.

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The only country that could invade Canada is the US. Like that is going to happen. We belong to NATO to protect Western Europe, not Canada or the US. Where was the US from 1939 - 1942? Where was the US from 1914 to 1917? 

This is not to say that when the US finally entered the WW2, they did not contribute, but it could be said the US was the dead-beat while we spent our blood and treasure.

I don't agree with that, but is is one arguement.

Why does the US need such a huge military? I agree with Bush-Cheney, the US should put a big chunk of it's Defence budget into healthcare. As Gwynne Dyer famously said, "If you can't take a joke, you should not have a defence budget."

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Freedom for Americans is cheaper if we don't have to defend you all. Our spending could be as cheap as say China and Russia combined. Which is where we were during Obama days but this lead to the invasion of Ukraine...  If you all could have credible deterrence to Russian and Chinese aggression(Taiwan is about to be like ukraine) then America would not need to station troop and expensive assets in Europe or the pacific. China is now militarizing pacific island reef and else where to achieve their one belt silk road initiative. America seek to challenge any security threat that China or Russia wish to pursue. 

America is what you call a world class military and is the only one of its kind since the dissolution of the soviet union. We can fight and win war any where in the world, naturally this cost more. But having dead beat allies doesn't help our collective defense efforts. This post was meant to be inflammatory serving as a wake up call. The world isn't getting safer, its the reverse. We are teetering on the edge of another major conflict unless we all act now and booster our collective effort to deter aggression in this era of Great power competition. 

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1 hour ago, paxrom said:

Not to single you out canada but all nato-dead beat should renounce the virtue of a free liberal democracy. Why? Because you people are not willing to pay for it. Not willing to pay the ultimate price for freedom. Being under America's security umbrella has given these country un-precedented wealth and prosperity. Money that could be allocated to America's health care and other social policy has been in turn used to make up for our dead beat allies. 

I propose that in keeping with the wishes of both countries, Canada should quickly kowtow to beijing or russia. Renounce any notion of a free and independent country. Turn into hongkong, and elect leaders that are pre approved by the central government. It will make the Russian election meddling look like child's play. Criticism of the central government would be suppress and all dissidents will quickly disappear. Free and independent press would no longer be necessary. George orwell would turn over in his grave at the level of dystopia. But these issue are a small price to pay for getting rid of obnoxious American fascism. 

 

PS, i still love you Canada, but this is tough love.

Then you might be interested in this:

 

 

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17 minutes ago, paxrom said:

Freedom for Americans is cheaper if we don't have to defend you all. Our spending could be as cheap as say China and Russia combined. Which is where we were during Obama days but this lead to the invasion of Ukraine...  If you all could have credible deterrence to Russian and Chinese aggression(Taiwan is about to be like ukraine) then America would not need to station troop and expensive assets in Europe or the pacific. China is now militarizing pacific island reef and else where to achieve their one belt silk road initiative. America seek to challenge any security threat that China or Russia wish to pursue. 

America is what you call a world class military and is the only one of its kind since the dissolution of the soviet union. We can fight and win war any where in the world, naturally this cost more. But having dead beat allies doesn't help our collective defense efforts. This post was meant to be inflammatory serving as a wake up call. The world isn't getting safer, its the reverse. We are teetering on the edge of another major conflict unless we all act now and booster our collective effort to deter aggression in this era of Great power competition. 

The world seems to be getting more dangerous because of US Policy under Trump.  So far in his term, he's threatened war against N Korea and now Venezuela, and he's called Canada a security risk.  He's spent considerable time alienating the allies you want to contribute to his war efforts, while cozying up to those who we were previously allied against.

I don't see how we can bolster our collective effort to save the world from war, unless it's all of us (Canada, Europe, China etc.) against the US and Russia.

 

Edited by dialamah
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Thanks for the 'like,' Paxrom. to be honest though, I think the US could benefit from an International-Harmonization Act (IHA) of some kind too seeing how the US too has sometimes just signed on to every and any agreement with no intention of fulfilling its obligations.

 

The US has no monarch or governor general and the president is partisan in your system, but I'm sure the US could think of introducing some kind of check to ensure that the US doesn't just water down the trustworthiness of its word on the world stage by just signing on to anything for a photo op either.

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Just now, dialamah said:

The world seems to be getting more dangerous because of US Policy under Trump.  So far in his term, he's threatened war against N Korea and now Venezuela, and he's called Canada a security risk.  He's spent considerable time alienating the allies you want to contribute to his war efforts, while cozying up to those who we were previously allied against.

I don't see how we can bolster our collective effort to save the world from war, unless it's all of us against the US.

 

You're probably not well read on geo-politics but let me attempt to dissect the mis-information.

Trump's agenda is controversial not because of his purpose but because of how he tries to achieve said purpose, which by the way, is for the benefit of the free world. 

1) We need to clean up our trading system and adopt true free trade to make up for the higher increase military spending. 

2) NK and Venez is part of our maximum pressure campaign. Which if anything did bear fruit at getting the Koreans to the negotiating table, allowing our diplomat to negotiate from a position of strength (You have to be ready for war and win). What remains of the summit is yet to be determined. 

3) His criticism of NATO is not unfounded, previous administration including Obama has voiced their concerns, trump just isn't that diplomatic about it, a fair assessment.

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The true American character is demonstrated by the outcomes of the Second World War. The War in the Pacific was won by American taxpayers' money and American blood. The war in Europe was won by American taxpayers' money and Rusian blood. That being said, immediately after the war, the United States of America delivered on the most enlightened foreign policy in the history of the World. The Marshall Plan and the Military Governorship of General Douglas MacArthur rebuilt both allied and former enemy nations alike. This was not in any way done with cynical intentions, but rather because it was the right thing to do. The US did not look for gratitude from the nations that benifited, and it must be acknowledged that the proper gratitude has been sadly lacking. This policy is the American character. We are grossly remiss as a global community, in  not cutting the US some slack for any short-comings we percieve.

This is why communities like NAFTA are so important. It is a self-evident fact that if Mexico and Canada are prospering under NAFTA, then so are our American friends. Multi-national trade agreements work because they allow us the opportunity to bargain collectively with the EU and the TPP.

Edited by Queenmandy85

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8 minutes ago, paxrom said:

You're probably not well read on geo-politics but let me attempt to dissect the mis-information.

Trump's agenda is controversial not because of his purpose but because of how he tries to achieve said purpose, which by the way, is for the benefit of the free world. 

1) We need to clean up our trading system and adopt true free trade to make up for the higher increase military spending. 

2) NK and Venez is part of our maximum pressure campaign. Which if anything did bear fruit at getting the Koreans to the negotiating table, allowing our diplomat to negotiate from a position of strength (You have to be ready for war and win). What remains of the summit is yet to be determined. 

3) His criticism of NATO is not unfounded, previous administration including Obama has voiced their concerns, trump just isn't that diplomatic about it, a fair assessment.

Yup, I am not particularly well-versed in geopolitics.  On the other hand, I don't feel it's necessary to respond to trollers with any semblance of serious discussion.

33 minutes ago, paxrom said:

This post was meant to be inflammatory

 

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2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yup, I am not particularly well-versed in geopolitics.  On the other hand, I don't feel it's necessary to respond to trollers with any semblance of serious discussion.

 

Fair enough. Atleast I got your attention to the issue. 

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43 minutes ago, paxrom said:

Fair enough. Atleast I got your attention to the issue. 

Its ok.  I take some of your posts more seriously, plus I didn't mind the mini lesson on geo-politics.

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

...I don't see how we can bolster our collective effort to save the world from war, unless it's all of us (Canada, Europe, China etc.) against the US and Russia.

 

 

See that's the funny part....Canada and other deadbeats are more focused on their social welfare states to do even that.   The U.S. is not responsible for protecting deadbeats who won't protect themselves.   NATO has started more wars than it has ever prevented.

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Canada should declare itself a neutral state. Two of the Western world's most stable democracies, Switzerland and Sweden, have long been neutral. Although it played an important role in WWII, Canada today has no crucial role to play in Europe. And Canada should cease all formal association with America's military aspirations and apparatus. We have only one natural enemy and one natural ally, and in each case it is the U.S. We'd be better off to operate a civil defense force and let the Americans and Europeans take care of their own interests and security concerns.

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4 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Canada should declare itself a neutral state.

 

Agreed...Canada should declare whatever it wants to be, instead of declaring what the United States should be/do (e.g. Chrystia Freeland).

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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2 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Canada should declare itself a neutral state. Two of the Western world's most stable democracies, Switzerland and Sweden, have long been neutral. Although it played an important role in WWII, Canada today has no crucial role to play in Europe. And Canada should cease all formal association with America's military aspirations and apparatus. We have only one natural enemy and one natural ally, and in each case it is the U.S. We'd be better off to operate a civil defense force and let the Americans and Europeans take care of their own interests and security concerns.

Actually, if Canada were to be invaded, it would be by the US. Highly unlikely. But, hypothetically, as a member of NATO, (who had a major role in the liberation of Europe) Canada has the right to call on NATO, including the nuclear forces of the UK and France, to come to our aid. (Again, unlikely)

If the US invaded Canada, the President would be impeached because our most faithful ally would be the wonderful people of the United States and they would never stand for it. 

Inspite of the fact we are not able to meet the unrealistic standards requested by President Trump, it is important that we do as much as we can. The problem is, the US government has greatly over-estimated it's own requirements. They do not need such an enormous force that is draining its own treasure.

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2 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Actually, if Canada were to be invaded, it would be by the US. Highly unlikely. But, hypothetically, as a member of NATO, (who had a major role in the liberation of Europe) Canada has the right to call on NATO, including the nuclear forces of the UK and France, to come to our aid. (Again, unlikely)

 

Canada can call all it wants, but France and UK are not going to respond with their nuclear forces against the U.S. forces.....that's called nuclear suicide.

 

Quote

If the US invaded Canada, the President would be impeached because our most faithful ally would be the wonderful people of the United States and they would never stand for it.

 

Nope...it is not a high crime or misdemeanor for a U.S. president to invade another nation....many presidents have done so.   Nothing special about Canada in that regard....the U.S. has contingencies for not only "invading" Canada, but lots of other things too (see October Crisis, Fort Drum, CIA, Kennedy-Diefenbaker, the bigger October Crisis with Cuba, etc.).    Example: as more terrorists come from Canada, more "invasions" come from the U.S.

 

Quote

Inspite of the fact we are not able to meet the unrealistic standards requested by President Trump, it is important that we do as much as we can. The problem is, the US government has greatly over-estimated it's own requirements. They do not need such an enormous force that is draining its own treasure.

 

But Canada insists on getting jobs from American defence contracts, right?    President Trump is not the first to challenge Canada as a NATO deadbeat.   It has become an annual tradition regardless of who is president.

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The American people took to the streets to resist the the action against a country in South-East Asia and eventually forced the Administration to pull out. How do you think the students at Berkley would react if the United States invaded Canada. 

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

.the U.S. has contingencies for not only "invading" Canada, but lots of other things too (see October Crisis, Fort Drum, CIA, Kennedy-Diefenbaker, the bigger October Crisis with Cuba, etc.).    Example: as more terrorists come from Canada, more "invasions" come from the U.S.

The US has not activated those contingecies. Canada did not activate our own contingency (Defence Scheme #1). Traditionally, the terrorists have come north into Canada from the US. (Fenians). We may not be up to 2% but we are doing what we can. We did carry your load from 1914-1917 and 1939 to 1942. It is what friends do. In the Great War, Canada's war dead was greater the the Americans. It is not a figure to be proud of but you seem to throw these insults around rather freely which is very uncharactaristic of the many americans I know. I would never acuse you of being a troll but you do seem to slag us off for the only intent of slagging us off. Sorry. I'm a Canadian. ;-)

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1 minute ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The American people took to the streets to resist the the action against a country in South-East Asia and eventually forced the Administration to pull out. How do you think the students at Berkley would react if the United States invaded Canada.

 

South Vietnam was not "invaded"...but Mexico sure was.   Didn't see many protests about that.   The students at Cal Berkely react to many trigger events.

 

Quote

The US has not activated those contingecies. Canada did not activate our own contingency (Defence Scheme #1). Traditionally, the terrorists have come north into Canada from the US. (Fenians). We may not be up to 2% but we are doing what we can. We did carry your load from 1914-1917 and 1939 to 1942. It is what friends do. In the Great War, Canada's war dead was greater the the Americans. It is not a figure to be proud of but you seem to throw these insults around rather freely which is very uncharactaristic of the many americans I know. I would never acuse you of being a troll but you do seem to slag us off for the only intent of slagging us off. Sorry. I'm a Canadian. ;-)

 

Not sure what you mean by this....the Canadian psyche and national identity has long "slagged" Americans as routine and expected.   Why is it a big deal when Americans respond in kind ?   Americans do not love or hate Canada....they are mostly indifferent/ignore Canada (and the Canadians whine about that too).

The Great War was a very stupid exercise in alliances and dying empires.....Canada was a dominion and tool of the imperialist and warmongering British Empire, with conquests/occupations around the world.   The U.S. wanted no part of that dumb ass war, which led to the next, even bigger world war. 

Nations states are not "friends"...they only have interests. 

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3 hours ago, paxrom said:

Not to single you out canada but all nato-dead beat should renounce the virtue of a free liberal democracy. Why? Because you people are not willing to pay for it. Not willing to pay the ultimate price for freedom. Being under America's security umbrella has given these country un-precedented wealth and prosperity. Money that could be allocated to America's health care and other social policy has been in turn used to make up for our dead beat allies. 

I propose that in keeping with the wishes of both countries, Canada should quickly kowtow to beijing or russia. Renounce any notion of a free and independent country. Turn into hongkong, and elect leaders that are pre approved by the central government. It will make the Russian election meddling look like child's play. Criticism of the central government would be suppress and all dissidents will quickly disappear. Free and independent press would no longer be necessary. George orwell would turn over in his grave at the level of dystopia. But these issue are a small price to pay for getting rid of obnoxious American fascism. 

 

PS, i still love you Canada, but this is tough love.

Democracies don’t allow dictator type pardons for law breakers nor un Democratic executive laws .

you would’t know about.democracy . You prefer a king who can pass laws with executive actions and pardon criminals and law breakers.

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3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

 

This is why communities like NAFTA are so important. It is a self-evident fact that if Mexico and Canada are prospering under NAFTA, then so are our American friends. Multi-national trade agreements work because they allow us the opportunity to bargain collectively with the EU and the TPP.

More or less true and I might add it ties our economies and dependency on one another, strengthening that bond and need for a collective defense.

What Trump has attempted to address was the unfair-trade practices and America's overwhelming burden on defense. Two very difficult topics to discuss with "allies" as the two previous administration had tried and failed to make any improvement.

Mainly because Europe and Canada did not see the benefit to it. This issue is the heart of the matter. Canadians/European think that America's war mongering were the cause of their large defense budget, a incorrect assessment. It is actually  to stabilize regions of conflict and facilitate peace and prosperity to strategic areas, like the indo-pacific, Europe and the middle east, all vital for global trade. Second, there were no incentive to adopt free trade with America as there was no economic pressure to do so. Europeans and Canadian alike were complacent enough to continue the status quo of the Marshal plan giving America the finger on trade. But Trump has used this complacency as leverage to gain domestic political capital. 

Why not keep "ripping off Americans and let them defend us" was the growing sentiment among American view of our NATO allies.  This view is not totally unjustified and if left to fester this would mean the end of NATO. 

Trump's proposal for free trade across partner nation is plenty fair as it would benefit everyone.However, his pressure tactic of placing tariff on allies is controversial, it did however bring attention to the international trading system that needed a major overhaul. If anything, by up-ing the ante it would push policy maker on both side to negotiate quicker trying to reduce any potential financial impact of an actual trade war. BUT NOOOO Trudea has opted to retaliate to appeal to domestic sentiment of not backing down from trump whilst hurting everyone only so his increasingly un-popular administration can survive. Trump is not a politician as I mentioned previously, but your PM however is one, a very good slithering politician not looking for your best Interest Canada.

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5 hours ago, paxrom said:

Not to single you out canada but all nato-dead beat should renounce the virtue of a free liberal democracy. Why? Because you people are not willing to pay for it. Not willing to pay the ultimate price for freedom. Being under America's security umbrella has given these country un-precedented wealth and prosperity. Money that could be allocated to America's health care and other social policy has been in turn used to make up for our dead beat allies. 

I propose that in keeping with the wishes of both countries, Canada should quickly kowtow to beijing or russia. Renounce any notion of a free and independent country. Turn into hongkong, and elect leaders that are pre approved by the central government. It will make the Russian election meddling look like child's play. Criticism of the central government would be suppress and all dissidents will quickly disappear. Free and independent press would no longer be necessary. George orwell would turn over in his grave at the level of dystopia. But these issue are a small price to pay for getting rid of obnoxious American fascism. 

 

PS, i still love you Canada, but this is tough love.

Nice, yer getting to the Bush_Cheney level, and right quick!

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

the Canadian psyche and national identity has long "slagged" Americans as routine and expected.   Why is it a big deal when Americans respond in kind ?   Americans do not love or hate Canada....they are mostly indifferent/ignore Canada (and the Canadians whine about that too).

I cannot argue with that. I have to admit you are absolutely right. 

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3 hours ago, turningrite said:

Canada should declare itself a neutral state. Two of the Western world's most stable democracies, Switzerland and Sweden, have long been neutral. Although it played an important role in WWII, Canada today has no crucial role to play in Europe. And Canada should cease all formal association with America's military aspirations and apparatus. We have only one natural enemy and one natural ally, and in each case it is the U.S. We'd be better off to operate a civil defense force and let the Americans and Europeans take care of their own interests and security concerns.

WTF.... 

 

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