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Altai

Statistics, comparisons, contradictions

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The U.S. has a population of 1% Muslims [Islam in the United States] where Turkey has 0.2% of Christian churches [Turkey's Declining Christian Population], all denominations. 

There are 2106 total Mosques in the U.S. [List of Mosques in the U.S.]; there are 14 Churches of Christianity in all of Turkey! [Christianity in Turkey]

 

If we presume each church and mosque hold equivalent quantities of people and that these Holy places represent all of these communities, then

63Mosques/2106totalMosques = 0.0299 =  2.99% of Muslims in U.S. Mosques discriminated against,...rounded up to 3%. Now multiply this by ALL of the percentages of Muslims in the U.S. and you have: 3% x 1% = 0.03/100 x 1/100 = 0.03/10000 = 0.0003/100 or

0.0003% of Muslims discriminated in the U.S. relative to the total of all Americans.

1Church/14totalChurches = 0.07 = 7% of Churches in Turkey. Now multiply this by ALL of the percentages of Christians in Turkey and you have: 7% x 0.2% = 7/100 x 0.2/100 = 1.4/10000 =0.014/100 or

0.014% of Christians discriminated in Turkey relative to the total of all Turkish.

 

Comparing: 0.0003: 0.014 = 3:140

 

That is, for every 140 Christians targeted by non-Christians in Turkey, only 3 Muslims are targeted by non-Muslims in the U.S.

 

Edited by Scott Mayers
placed links to make more readable.
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4 hours ago, JamesHackerMP said:

I cannot read the second link, it's in Turkish.

Did the Google Translate, and it's about an attack on a church - no overall statistics.  Here's this though: https://www.christiantoday.com/article/turkey-catholic-church-suffers-second-attack-this-year/127147.htm

Quote

A Catholic church in Trabzon, Turkey has suffered its second attack this year.

A gun-attack this week followed a failed pipe bomb at Saint Maria Catholic Church. There have been no causalities but locals have warned that anti-Christian hate crimes are on the rise, with little concern from authorities. 

So good for Atlai for at least trying to put some numbers to something, bad for Atlai for falling flat on her face with an error rate of at least 100% and counting.  Try try again.

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Altai,

I understand and agree that statistics get abused. But as you see above, your own actual numbers when compared appropriately prove that the opposite of your point is true and by a far more problematic number. I used your exact numbers above to prove this. What you miss by the rhetoric is that 0.2% was rounded up to 1% by innuendo. Your stat mentioned that 99% of Muslims exist in Turkey but it doesn't say how many OF the remaining 1% are actually Christian. In the U.S., the actual statistic IS 1% and so that IS still correct. When you round off 0.2% of Christians in the same way, 0% is the only possible way to compare, not 1%. 0.2 is closer to 0% than to 1%.

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12 minutes ago, Scott Mayers said:

63Mosques/2106totalMosques = 0.0299 =  2.99% of Muslims in U.S. Mosques discriminated against,...rounded up to 3%. Now multiply this by ALL of the percentages of Muslims in the U.S. and you have: 3% x 1% = 0.03/100 x 1/100 = 0.03/10000 = 0.0003/100 or

0.0003% of Muslims discriminated in the U.S. relative to the total of all Americans.

1Church/14totalChurches = 0.07 = 7% of Churches in Turkey. Now multiply this by ALL of the percentages of Christians in Turkey and you have: 7% x 0.2% = 7/100 x 0.2/100 = 1.4/10000 =0.014/100 or

0.014% of Christians discriminated in Turkey relative to the total of all Turkish.

 

Comparing: 0.0003: 0.014 = 3:140

 

That is, for every 140 Christians targeted by non-Christians in Turkey, only 3 Muslims are targeted by non-Muslims in the U.S.

 

It looks like you compared the ratios but not the total population of people in those countries. In that case the final answer "140" persons can't be valid.

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4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

It looks like you compared the ratios but not the total population of people in those countries. In that case the final answer "140" persons can't be valid.

No, I used the percentages and so did not need to use the actual numbers of all people. When you use stats relating to percentages on both sides, there is no need to specify the actual number. If you need a better explanation I can go step by step through it. But it is all above. Just take your time to read it carefully.

NOTE: one rhetorical trick by politicians is to use the literal numbers when they are largely contrasting to a small number when the large number is of fewer overall percentages and the small number is of a larger percentage. 

EXAMPLE: If you want to make crime rates seem greater than they are, you can point to the literal quantity increase of crimes ignoring that the population of that stat has increased much greater. So the increased apparent number may actually have a decreased percentage of the new total numbers.

Edited by Scott Mayers
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Imagine you are one of two kids of your parents and that you now are grown up and have ten kids of your own.

When arguing one day with your parents about how abusive they were against you while treating your sibling oppositely, your parents agree but then assert that you have an increase of 100% that abuse and so are worse than they were. 

Given you were the only one of two abused by your parents, you can be sure that 50% of your parents kids were abused. But their apparent argument falls flat when you agree with them that you are at fault too by increasing the total number of children abused: from 1 person to 2 is 100%. But 2 of your children abused is only 20%, an actual decrease in overall percentage. So, while both of you are wrong for being abusive, AND you agree to the same numbers, your parents are at fault if they think that the fact you are more relatively abusive when you actually improved on your parent's performance.

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On 7/28/2018 at 4:02 PM, Scott Mayers said:

The U.S. has a population of 1% Muslims [Islam in the United States] where Turkey has 0.2% of Christian churches [Turkey's Declining Christian Population], all denominations. 

There are 2106 total Mosques in the U.S. [List of Mosques in the U.S.]; there are 14 Churches of Christianity in all of Turkey! [Christianity in Turkey]

 


There are 349 churches in Turkiye.

Source: http://www.agos.com.tr/tr/yazi/2664/bozdag-turkiyede-349-kilise-var

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On 7/28/2018 at 4:16 PM, Scott Mayers said:

Altai,

I understand and agree that statistics get abused. But as you see above, your own actual numbers when compared appropriately prove that the opposite of your point is true and by a far more problematic number. I used your exact numbers above to prove this. What you miss by the rhetoric is that 0.2% was rounded up to 1% by innuendo. Your stat mentioned that 99% of Muslims exist in Turkey but it doesn't say how many OF the remaining 1% are actually Christian. In the U.S., the actual statistic IS 1% and so that IS still correct. When you round off 0.2% of Christians in the same way, 0% is the only possible way to compare, not 1%. 0.2 is closer to 0% than to 1%.

Now calculate it again and write it here or I will simply put you in my ignore list.

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Altai's ignore list is now the main project being undertaken by the great publishing houses of Ursa Minor.

  • Haha 1

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16 hours ago, Altai said:

Now calculate it again and write it here or I will simply put you in my ignore list.

I challenge your own superior skills at reasoning to figure it out. I took numbers from the sources as demonstrated AND with your own FAITH of what another had spoken of without yourself knowing enough about the statistics.

If you sincerely want anyone's intellectual feedback, you can't threaten them when you're proven at fault for some argument . I'd have further attempted to calculate this too with your own different data and now you are left to present the mathematical argument yourself. 

Since you have fault with the source of my own statistics (using 12 churches), then challenge THAT source in argument, not present alternative ones. It reduces to a he-said-she-said if you can't explain why that source you distrust is wrong and why your own is better. My math above was correct GIVEN the sources I quoted. And there is no other way to prove anything more for either of us if we can't KNOW the accuracy of which source is more trustworthy or not.

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That happens in a lot of countries Not that that excuses it of course, but I dont see why you're singling out the US for that. What are the stats for that in Turkey?

Edited by JamesHackerMP

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People receive "unwanted sexual advances" all the time. People are sexual in nature and solicit for sex all the time. That is how babies get made, you know.

Besides, all one has to do is say "No" whenever this happens, and that's all there is.

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Do (some of) the churches in Turkey involve in terrorist activities against the state and population of Turkey. No I did'n"t think so. Do some mosques in the US involve in terrorist activities against the state and population. Yes I think so.

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On 10/26/2018 at 4:09 AM, Altai said:

65% of women working in Silicon Valley are sexually disturbed by their male co-workers.

https://www.dw.com/en/google-48-employees-fired-for-sexual-misconduct/a-46050681

So you are claiming that women working in Turkey or other muslim states (if they are considered human to allow to work or drive or wear what they choose) are not being sexually harassed?? Or there lacks statistics because of cover ups or widespread harassment (being a normal thing and part of the job in muslim countries)?

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On 10/27/2018 at 2:14 PM, Altai said:

You dont have to apologize for someones, these are just statistics.

A famous saying is "there are lies, damned lies, and there are statistics". It means there are three levels, each more evil than the next, and statistics are the very worst.

When comparing statistics from now to long ago, we must consider if other factors have made the reporting incidence go up. These factors are basic to the understanding of any statistics.

Another interesting development with statistics occurred in a poll, when people were asked questions about their opinions or preferences, they tended to lie and not admit their true feelings. This especially occurred if the person asking the questions could see them face to face, or in a phone call. People lied because they did not want other people to know what they really think. However, when they were given anonymity such as in the act of voting, they chose to vote more honestly because it was done in private. 

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Google workers quits job World wide to protest injustice against female workers. Workers blame Google for hiding sexual offences against female workers. This happens in one of the most popular Western companies, lets imagine the streets.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/01/google-employees-walk-out-in-protest-of-sexual-misconduct-handling.html

Edited by Altai

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One can only imagine how bad it is in other countries....like Turkey. Do you have statistics for your own country?

Edited by JamesHackerMP

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Western countries keep staying silent or keep rejecting the murder of Saudi journalist in Turkiye. After long-standing efforts of US state officials to ignore the murder, now France Ministry of Foreign Affairs rejects the murder. 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/turkey-rejects-french-accusation-of-khashoggi-game-playing-10922108


LoL as I said always, Western people are brainwashed to think that they have a free media and they have freedom of speech. You dont have any freedom when it starts to disturb your govts. Democracy is the apple candy in your hands and it has zero affect other than satisfying your personal ego.

Edited by Altai

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