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There is a town in Michigan where only practicing Christians are allowed to buy or inherit real estate.   The bylaw has been around since the 1940s, first passed to prevent Jews from buying, and was strengethened in 1986.  Non-Christians can rent.  The bylaw is being challenged in Court.  

Although this bylaw is clealy discriminatory, my initial reaction is its ok in this context.  If a group of people want to create their own community, they should be allowed to do so.  But I thought I would put it out here to hear other thoughts.

The article is a good read, btw, as it highlights the issues people are facing as the population has grown more progressive but the bylaw has not.

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The above is taken out of the article, and while it does not say with certainty that there are no, NON Muslims living there..... The article does suggest that very thing...Mr Ahmed is managing the sel

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/04/13/vaughan-council-unanimously-approves-controversial-thornhill-muslim-community-development.html https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/couillard-po

I suppose it depends what they get from others.  I can see a commune type thing, where they are totally self reliant.  Like the Moonies.  But if they avail themselves of any state or federal serv

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

There is a town in Michigan where only practicing Christians are allowed to buy or inherit real estate.   The bylaw has been around since the 1940s, first passed to prevent Jews from buying, and was strengethened in 1986.  Non-Christians can rent.  The bylaw is being challenged in Court.  

Although this bylaw is clealy discriminatory, my initial reaction is its ok in this context.  If a group of people want to create their own community, they should be allowed to do so.  But I thought I would put it out here to hear other thoughts.

The article is a good read, btw, as it highlights the issues people are facing as the population has grown more progressive but the bylaw has not.

I suppose it depends what they get from others.  I can see a commune type thing, where they are totally self reliant.  Like the Moonies. 

But if they avail themselves of any state or federal services they should follow the same laws as everyone else.

I suppose as the population grows and the resources shrink it is to be expected that the world goes backwards.

 

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Here in Canada it would fit right in with our tribal multicultural model - except maybe for the Christian part. There was a story in the news a while back where a physically disabled young man and his mother were denied housing in a publicly funded complex in Toronto because they didn't belong to the religious faith that sponsored the project. (Hint, it wasn't Christian.) And public authorities defended the situation. Bizarrely, the situation was justified on grounds that other publicly funded buildings are equally exclusionary, but it would be interesting to see what would happen were these other groups to openly exclude members of minority faiths. I have a good friend (who isn't himself Catholic) who lives in a seniors building that was sponsored by a Catholic group, where the residents represent a panoply of cultures and religions. We in Canada tolerate segregation - on a selective basis.   

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1 hour ago, turningrite said:

Bizarrely, the situation was justified on grounds that other publicly funded buildings are equally exclusionary, but it would be interesting to see what would happen were these other groups to openly exclude members of minority faiths.

Here are a couple of examples of places that would be able to legally exclude, for example, a disabled Muslim person:

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On these pages you will find information about the long-term care offered in our non-profit home, as well as in our assisted living apartments.  You will also learn more about our commitment to caring for seniors of Dutch descent in an active Christian setting.

Shalom Manor is unique in that we are a Christian long-term-care home with firm roots tied to the Dutch community, the Christian Reformed Church and other Reformed Christian denominations. It is this community we serve primarily. Presently, Shalom Manor has over 95 seniors on a waiting list for acceptance.

 

 

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Durham Christian Homes was established and incorporated in 1983 as an interdenominational organization to provide housing for seniors in Durham Region.

The planning and financial support for the establishment of Durham Christian Homes as a Christian retirement residence was initiated with tremendous input and financial support from members of the local Reformed Churches

 

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The Masonic senior care facilities of a century ago are largely different than the ones operating today. Aside from the many medical and technological innovations, many of today’s facilities are even open to non-Masonic members, though this varies by facility. The general public, however, is typically given less priority than Masons and their family members. They also will pay a higher rate.

 

 

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I have a good friend (who isn't himself Catholic) who lives in a seniors building that was sponsored by a Catholic group, where the residents represent a panoply of cultures and religions.

Yes, many organizations, religious and otherwise, do not exclude anyone.  I myself prefer that, but some people want to be with "their own kind" so to speak, and Canada allows for that under certain circumstances.  

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We in Canada tolerate segregation - on a selective basis

Yes, we do.  And we are pretty even handed about who can exclude; our rules are around allowing groups to determine who'll belong in their "club", so to speak.

Here's a story of a disabled woman who could not live in the condo her mother left her, due to age-restrictions.

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20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am holding in my laughing as I ask for a cite.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/04/13/vaughan-council-unanimously-approves-controversial-thornhill-muslim-community-development.html

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/couillard-pours-criticized-plan-to-build-a-muslim-suburb  -- counter to Quebec Values

The Muslim only village in Maple, Ontario has been up and running for a while   https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/realestate/18nati.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-1VWHayEgI

ETA:  Is Sharia part of Canadian values – should it be even if women are treated as second class citizens?

https://www.nsnews.com/news/call-to-prayer-1.370682

"Learning takes place here, problems are solved here, conflicts are resolved in this place, people are getting married here, people will be divorced here if they have to according to Islamic law, I mean the Shariah," Abdus-Salaam says.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, scribblet said:

The Muslim only village in Maple, Ontario has been up and running for a while   https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/realestate/18nati.html

I am on my phone so I am having trouble downloading multiple links.  The first one, though, is horseshit.  Nowhere in the article does it say Muslim-only.  That's just a spicy I'll little lie you added in because otherwise you wouldn't have anything...

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5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am on my phone so I am having trouble downloading multiple links.  The first one, though, is horseshit.  Nowhere in the article does it say Muslim-only.  That's just a spicy I'll little lie you added in because otherwise you wouldn't have anything...

Nonsense, the village in Maple is the first one I'd heard of and it is a Muslim only, Peace Village I also gave another link.  

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12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So I am not allowed to move there if I buy?

Constitutionally and legally I don't know, although I doubt they could refuse to sell and probably will say publicly they would sell to you  .  I do know but can't find the original link from back then, that the houses were built with two living rooms, one for men and one for women.  The community was built exclusively to house Ahmadiyya Muslims, the original link doesn't work now.

ETA:  I believe there's one in Calgary also.

 

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4 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Nonsense, the village in Maple is the first one I'd heard of and it is a Muslim only, Peace Village I also gave another link.  

The N.Y. Times article about Peace Village does not say "Muslim only", it says the buyers are Muslim because the community is centered around the Mosque.  It also mentions two other, similar communities-one is a a Roman Catholic community built around a Catholic Church and the other is a community planned around a Cathedral which is expected to draw primarily Slovakian Catholics. 

The planned Vaughan community is open to non-Muslims:   

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The units would not be exclusive to Muslims, but the ISIJ expects the proximity to the mosque will attract primarily residents of Islamic faith.

The objections to the Vaughn community are driven by concerns over density and green space, which is valid in my opinion.  Some of the objections are driven by bigotry - as expressed by this woman:  

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Nitza Shamiss, who lives across the street from the mosque, said she will sell her home if the proposal is approved.

“Why would I want to be next to a refugee community?” she asked. “When you pay for a certain kind of house in a certain kind of neighbourhood, you want the real estate value to hold.”

 

Michael is right: you have attempted to misinform.  No doubt your other links follow the same misinformation agenda.  

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30 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Constitutionally and legally I don't know, although I doubt they could refuse to sell and probably will say publicly they would sell to you  .  I do know but can't find the original link from back then, that the houses were built with two living rooms, one for men and one for women.  The community was built exclusively to house Ahmadiyya Muslims, the original link doesn't work now.

ETA:  I believe there's one in Calgary also.

 

That info is included in the N.Y. Times link you provided.  They also installed industrial strength fans in the kitchen for aromatic cooking.  I suppose two living rooms could be billed as a living room and a family room for non-Muslims.

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30 minutes ago, dialamah said:

....

Michael is right: you have attempted to misinform.  No doubt your other links follow the same misinformation agenda.  

Nonsense, what I've posted is correct, they are Muslim only communities, this  Peace Village, was Canada's first Islamic subdivision, but I doubt legally they could stop someone else from buying.  No doubt you can't see the forest for the trees.    The living rooms were built specifically for Muslim to separate the women from the men. 

Attacking the messenger and or denying the existence  of such places doesn't make it go away, it's happening and if nothing else sure doesn't help them and their kids integrate into society.  

   

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2 hours ago, scribblet said:

Nonsense, what I've posted is correct, they are Muslim only communities, this  Peace Village, was Canada's first Islamic subdivision, but I doubt legally they could stop someone else from buying.  No doubt you can't see the forest for the trees.    The living rooms were built specifically for Muslim to separate the women from the men. 

Attacking the messenger and or denying the existence  of such places doesn't make it go away, it's happening and if nothing else sure doesn't help them and their kids integrate into society.  

   

 

Remember, by mentioning such things, you become as ISIS in dialamah's eyes. You might as well be burning folks alive in cages or shooting them en masse and throwing the bodies in the Tigris.

You monster.

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10 hours ago, dialamah said:

Here are a couple of examples of places that would be able to legally exclude, for example, a disabled Muslim person:

Yes, many organizations, religious and otherwise, do not exclude anyone.  I myself prefer that, but some people want to be with "their own kind" so to speak, and Canada allows for that under certain circumstances.  

Yes, we do.  And we are pretty even handed about who can exclude; our rules are around allowing groups to determine who'll belong in their "club", so to speak.

 

I'm not sure whether any of the instances you reference entail substantial public funding and/or ongoing public subsidy. Privately funded institutions and projects have greater latitude, presumably within certain limits, to define their client groups, however on principle it seems very problematic to me that publicly funded social housing can be designated for the exclusive use of specific ethnic, racial or religious groups.

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9 hours ago, turningrite said:

I'm not sure whether any of the instances you reference entail substantial public funding and/or ongoing public subsidy. Privately funded institutions and projects have greater latitude, presumably within certain limits, to define their client groups, however on principle it seems very problematic to me that publicly funded social housing can be designated for the exclusive use of specific ethnic, racial or religious groups.

Exactly, and this was subsidized housing so surprising that they are allowed to discriminate.   

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On 8/18/2018 at 8:14 PM, turningrite said:

I'm not sure whether any of the instances you reference entail substantial public funding and/or ongoing public subsidy.

I think one is strictly privately funded, not sure if the others get government money.

 

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13 hours ago, turningrite said:

on principle it seems very problematic to me that publicly funded social housing can be designated for the exclusive use of specific ethnic, racial or religious groups.

I agree, but that seems to be the case.  Perhaps the government deems it cheaper to subsidize housing that helps at least some people rather than risk having to provide all the help for everyone that needs it.

Interestingly, when Muslims attempted to set up Sharia Tribunals in Ontario to arbitrate family matters, similar to already existing Catholic and Jewish Tribunals, public outcry was strong enough that all religions lost the ability to privately arbitrate family matters according to their religious precepts. Perhaps, if enough people are incensed by Muslim-only publically subsidized housing, all such facilities will be denied any public funding.  Would that be a good thing?

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On 8/18/2018 at 2:01 PM, scribblet said:

1. Constitutionally and legally I don't know, although I doubt they could refuse to sell and probably will say publicly they would sell to you  . 

2. aI do know but can't find the original link from back then, that the houses were built with two living rooms, one for men and one for women.  The community was built exclusively to house Ahmadiyya Muslims, the original link doesn't work now.

ETA:  I believe there's one in Calgary also.

 

1. It's not Muslim only if anyone can live there.  It's like saying Chinatown is Chinese only.

2. I have two living rooms.

There are lots of examples of people intimidating 'others' who try to move in.  We should not accept that if it happens here.

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