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The Irony That Is Free Speech


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This should give a few of you a chuckle...from the CBC comment section.

 

"Thank goodness we have free speech in Canada."

(content disabled)

Now...I laughed pretty hard. But then...less so.

Edited by DogOnPorch
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....and that sums-up things these days in a nutshell. We think we have free speech...but in reality, it has been disabled. Your content has been disabled. Now I know CBC comments section is a nes

As long as freedom FROM religion is also written into a charter. I don't want to be forced to respect or praise or ANYTHING...your silly mythology.

Freedom from religion is more essential.  No-one should be prevented from believing whatever they want, or from worshiping whatever they want, as long as such has no effect on anyone else. Accommodati

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....and that sums-up things these days in a nutshell. We think we have free speech...but in reality, it has been disabled. Your content has been disabled.

Now I know CBC comments section is a nest of brigading left wing types...but...you know. That's pretty crazy...

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not much has changed since the good old days of the now defunct CBC Forums, where we had to spell "Joos" to fool the censor bot.

It's pretty pathetic when they are even afraid of words.

 

"Delete" and "Comment" are two words that send your post to Middle Eastern moderation. "CBC" as well.

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8 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

....and that sums-up things these days in a nutshell. We think we have free speech...but in reality, it has been disabled. Your content has been disabled.

Now I know CBC comments section is a nest of brigading left wing types...but...you know. That's pretty crazy...

When CBC says "let us know what you think....." and you see all these comments they show - lol, they're all left-wing!   Once in a while, they let in a right-wing comment, for appearance's sake.

 

Harper  made a big mistake in not dismantling this left-wing propaganda mouthpiece  that we subsidize!

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2 hours ago, betsy said:

When CBC says "let us know what you think....." and you see all these comments they show - lol, they're all left-wing!   Once in a while, they let in a right-wing comment, for appearance's sake.

 

Harper  made a big mistake in not dismantling this left-wing propaganda mouthpiece  that we subsidize!

 

Here's the pics...

CBC1.thumb.jpg.fc8799e09146463a1a6c618aea5c8afd.jpgCBC2.thumb.jpg.0f3cd47d4a64658b4c807250fdcaf3cc.jpg

That's moi...Bobby Porch.

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11 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

This should give a few of you a chuckle...from the CBC comment section.

  Hide contents

"Thank goodness we have free speech in Canada."

(content disabled)

Now...I laughed pretty hard. But then...less so.

All the media organs are utterly terrified that someone will post an offensive comment that will outrage the so-easily outraged progressive set. If you mention any identity group in an even mildly negative way, even if true, even if proven true, your comment will likely be deleted. You can be critical of immigration, broadly speaking, but never associate it with any ills. For example, if commenting on a crime story involving people who appear to be (or are) foreign or immigrants any comment related to their supposed ethnicity or immigration status will be deleted. Any comments deemed sexist will be deleted. Comments decrying white Canadians' ancestors as ignorant racist killers are fine. But contrary comments pointing out how violent and uncivilized natives were at the time will likely be deleted.

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42 minutes ago, Argus said:

All the media organs are utterly terrified that someone will post an offensive comment that will outrage the so-easily outraged progressive set. If you mention any identity group in an even mildly negative way, even if true, even if proven true, your comment will likely be deleted. You can be critical of immigration, broadly speaking, but never associate it with any ills. For example, if commenting on a crime story involving people who appear to be (or are) foreign or immigrants any comment related to their supposed ethnicity or immigration status will be deleted. Any comments deemed sexist will be deleted. Comments decrying white Canadians' ancestors as ignorant racist killers are fine. But contrary comments pointing out how violent and uncivilized natives were at the time will likely be deleted.

 

The irony and hypocrisy are thick enough to walk on...

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42 minutes ago, Argus said:

All the media organs are utterly terrified that someone will post an offensive comment that will outrage the so-easily outraged progressive set. If you mention any identity group in an even mildly negative way, even if true, even if proven true, your comment will likely be deleted. You can be critical of immigration, broadly speaking, but never associate it with any ills. For example, if commenting on a crime story involving people who appear to be (or are) foreign or immigrants any comment related to their supposed ethnicity or immigration status will be deleted. Any comments deemed sexist will be deleted. Comments decrying white Canadians' ancestors as ignorant racist killers are fine. But contrary comments pointing out how violent and uncivilized natives were at the time will likely be deleted.

Not all of them, Argus.  Huff Post Canada allows commenting on it's articles and I take full advantage of it.  The CBC is but a left-wing tool of the Liberal government.

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Meanwhile, here in Ontario, Ford says his government will require universities to adopt free speech policies that permit controversial speakers to be heard and allow for contentious views to be aired. You know the pendulum has truly swung too far in the direction of a "progressive" form of fascism when governments have to intervene to restore free speech in a country that's supposed to be a democracy.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-doug-ford-says-ontario-postsecondary-schools-will-require-free-speech/

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2 hours ago, turningrite said:

Meanwhile, here in Ontario, Ford says his government will require universities to adopt free speech policies that permit controversial speakers to be heard and allow for contentious views to be aired. You know the pendulum has truly swung too far in the direction of a "progressive" form of fascism when governments have to intervene to restore free speech in a country that's supposed to be a democracy.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-doug-ford-says-ontario-postsecondary-schools-will-require-free-speech/

I'd feel better if he required universities to adopt policies which ensured there was diversity of opinions on their staffs, and that their professors and teachers taught subjects without resorting to ideological indoctrination. That, in my opinion, is the real problem with universities. Not that they occasionally shut out some mildly conservative visiting speaker.

 

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On 8/31/2018 at 3:45 PM, Argus said:

I'd feel better if he required universities to adopt policies which ensured there was diversity of opinions on their staffs, and that their professors and teachers taught subjects without resorting to ideological indoctrination. That, in my opinion, is the real problem with universities. Not that they occasionally shut out some mildly conservative visiting speaker.

 

I don't know how Ford's proposed policy will work. I suspect it would likely be difficult to impose ideological hiring standards at universities. How would anybody know whether a prof would turn out to be an ideologue? Perhaps, then, free speech policies might be a better approach. It's been decades since my last contact with academe but in my recollection there were few true ideologues among the profs with whom I dealt. There were a couple that I can recall but they were exceptions among an otherwise pretty open-minded bunch. I guess it would be helpful to know why this has apparently changed so dramatically over the past 30 or 40 years.

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1 hour ago, turningrite said:

I don't know how Ford's proposed policy will work. I suspect it would likely be difficult to impose ideological hiring standards at universities. 

Well, the universities have apparently been operating under such a policy for many years now. Only it's ensured only progressives are hired. Surely that can be changed.

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On 8/31/2018 at 3:45 PM, Argus said:

I'd feel better if he required universities to adopt policies which ensured there was diversity of opinions on their staffs, and that their professors and teachers taught subjects without resorting to ideological indoctrination.

So refusing people a job based on political beliefs is your solution ?   Where is your solution to hire liberals in areas where they are under represented ?  

As a conservative, you sure like liberal programs like quotas... if they help conservatives that is...

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45 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So refusing people a job based on political beliefs is your solution ?   Where is your solution to hire liberals in areas where they are under represented ?  

As a conservative, you sure like liberal programs like quotas... if they help conservatives that is...

You want my solution? First, fire half of all the senior administrators. They're a waste of time and money and contribute virtually nothing to the education of students. Second, reduce the salaries of the remaining senior administrators by 50% (or in the case of university heads 75%)

Third, fire any senior administrator or professor who hires based on political/ideological views of the applicants. That would mean firing about 90% of them, apparently, in the non-STEM fields.

 

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

So refusing people a job based on political beliefs is your solution ?   Where is your solution to hire liberals in areas where they are under represented ?  

As a conservative, you sure like liberal programs like quotas... if they help conservatives that is...

Is that not what has happen it todays Universities, where is the conservative teachers.....where do the students get their liberal ideas from...

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10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Is that not what has happen it todays Universities, where is the conservative teachers.....where do the students get their liberal ideas from...

Unless you have any proof that overwhelming numbers of conservative academics are being denied careers, or being killed or somehow disappearing, I will be forced to come to a natural conclusion vis-a-vis conservatism and education...

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21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Unless you have any proof that overwhelming numbers of conservative academics are being denied careers, or being killed or somehow disappearing, I will be forced to come to a natural conclusion vis-a-vis conservatism and education...

Would you say students in most Canadian universities have liberal values, or conservative values....And are the students politically  influenced by staff.

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9 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Would you say students in most Canadian universities have liberal values, or conservative values....And are the students politically  influenced by staff.

I have no idea on the first.  I suspect that most are centrist.  I don't think people are influenced by staff any more than by their friends and families though.  The idea that universities are some kind of leftist indoctrination machine hasn't been supported by anything beyond the outrage anecdotes that are churned out by media outlets.  Yes, there is groupthink happening and conservatives are under-represented and I even agree that free thinking is constrained by orthodoxy but the best solution has already happened: we throw light on the situation, and reasonable people are made aware of the situation.

 

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8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I have no idea on the first.  I suspect that most are centrist.  I don't think people are influenced by staff any more than by their friends and families though.  The idea that universities are some kind of leftist indoctrination machine hasn't been supported by anything beyond the outrage anecdotes that are churned out by media outlets.  Yes, there is groupthink happening and conservatives are under-represented and I even agree that free thinking is constrained by orthodoxy but the best solution has already happened: we throw light on the situation, and reasonable people are made aware of the situation.

 

I think there has been a shift away from free speech toward "acceptable" speech and that this mentality pervades academia, where the applicable principle seems to be that whatever one's own personal beliefs one simply must not offend anyone. Were they able to speak from their graves, the great Enlightenment thinkers would no doubt be astonished by this. I think much of this form of indoctrination begins much earlier in the the school system, however. When at a family function a couple years ago a very well educated young niece of mine, who holds three degrees, two of them in STEM fields, pronounced that "everybody over 50 is a racist," as if this amounts to an established fact in the known universe. As far as I could figure, her basic premise is that those of us over 50 were never exposed to "anti-racism" education and training while at school. Wow, I thought, so tolerance must be learned and imposed by indoctrination! If this is so, it suggests that human nature is inherently intolerant, which seems to me an entirely pessimistic view. Are our schools churning out graduates predisposed to pessimism? Maybe this is the important shift we should be pondering given that from a historical perspective the Western ethos has been grounded in progress and optimism. Has Westernism reached an end? 

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10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I have no idea on the first.  I suspect that most are centrist.  I don't think people are influenced by staff any more than by their friends and families though.  The idea that universities are some kind of leftist indoctrination machine hasn't been supported by anything beyond the outrage anecdotes that are churned out by media outlets.  Yes, there is groupthink happening and conservatives are under-represented and I even agree that free thinking is constrained by orthodoxy but the best solution has already happened: we throw light on the situation, and reasonable people are made aware of the situation.

 

I'm sorry Michael I don't have a fancy graph or some documentary to back up anything with facts, shit for that matter I did not even go to university, For what I seen to date I think the majority are liberal minded, or closer to green party lines , very few have conservative values....at least in this part of there lives...And yes I get that opinion from the countless media sources out there from LGBT community, to anti fa movement, to opinions expressed on world events....I do think they are heavily influenced by staff, a lot of students are surrounded by the University 24 and 7 for a long time, and the staff play a good size roll in that.....as well as their friends with short burst of family.... I don't think that's there some evil plan by the liberals to brain wash our youth, I just think during that age most are already coded liberal until they get some world experience....That and in my opinion most teachers are liberal minded as well maybe it's the water....  

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3 hours ago, turningrite said:

1. I think there has been a shift away from free speech toward "acceptable" speech and that this mentality pervades academia, where the applicable principle seems to be that whatever one's own personal beliefs one simply must not offend anyone.

2. Were they able to speak from their graves, the great Enlightenment thinkers would no doubt be astonished by this.

3. I think much of this form of indoctrination begins much earlier in the the school system, however. When at a family function a couple years ago a very well educated young niece of mine, who holds three degrees, two of them in STEM fields, pronounced that "everybody over 50 is a racist," as if this amounts to an established fact in the known universe.

4. As far as I could figure, her basic premise is that those of us over 50 were never exposed to "anti-racism" education and training while at school. Wow, I thought, so tolerance must be learned and imposed by indoctrination! If this is so, it suggests that human nature is inherently intolerant, which seems to me an entirely pessimistic view. Are our schools churning out graduates predisposed to pessimism? Maybe this is the important shift we should be pondering given that from a historical perspective the Western ethos has been grounded in progress and optimism. Has Westernism reached an end? 

1. That's not borne out by the quality of our public dialogue today though, which surfaces unheard-of and previously-untouchable ideas.  Maybe that's true in some circles or sub-cultures but there's lots of offensive speech happening.  On this board if you call someone a racist (when they say racist things) they react like Lil Miss Muffet to a spider.

2. They would be far more astonished by the moral decay at the highest reaches of government, the advent of mass media, and Pornhub IMO.

3. Let me guess: YOU WERE OFFENDED.  You should tell your friend that such comments trigger you, in future.

4. Humans being naturally intolerant seems a reasonable idea, based on whatever the culture's experience is with outsiders.  Pacific Islanders certainly behaved differently than German Tribes.  Anyway, you seem to be giving the idea some thought so it can't be THAT outlandish !

 

 

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22 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Unless you have any proof that overwhelming numbers of conservative academics are being denied careers,

So you think the numerous stories and studies which show that liberal professors outnumber conservative professors anywhere from 12-1 to 20-1 are... what exactly? You think there's no self-selection going on there?

 

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12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I have no idea on the first.  I suspect that most are centrist.  I don't think people are influenced by staff any more than by their friends and families though.  The idea that universities are some kind of leftist indoctrination machine hasn't been supported by anything beyond the outrage anecdotes that are churned out by media outlets.  Yes, there is groupthink happening and conservatives are under-represented and I even agree that free thinking is constrained by orthodoxy but the best solution has already happened: we throw light on the situation, and reasonable people are made aware of the situation.

And what has been done in the years since light has been thrown on the situation?

Nothing whatsoever. Universities are self-governing institutions and they are governed by progressives. There are more marrxist than conservative professors. You admit groupthink is happening and yet somehow believe students are not affected, and that this will somehow end on its own? I doubt you would be as sanguine if it turned out there were an overwhelming number of right AND far right professors in schools.

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

1. I'm sorry Michael I don't have a fancy graph or some documentary to back up anything with facts, shit for that matter I did not even go to university,

2. For what I seen to date I think the majority are liberal minded, or closer to green party lines , very few have conservative values....at least in this part of there lives...And yes I get that opinion from the countless media sources out there from LGBT community, to anti fa movement, to opinions expressed on world events....I do think they are heavily influenced by staff, a lot of students are surrounded by the University 24 and 7 for a long time, and the staff play a good size roll in that. 

1.  Well, the thing is: people don't know what they don't know.  And sometimes they think they know something based on limited information. I'm not saying this is you, nor am I saying that the ideas about on-campus thinking are out there.  In fact, I gave them some credence to the idea, above.

2.  Well, maybe.  But engineers, sales people, business people, lawyers, Conservative politicians all go to university.  Universities have always been leftist hotbeds and ther NDP's support over the decades has been flat.  I do think that on-campus nuttiness is a magnet for media attention - deserved or not.

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