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betsy

Environmental Scams!

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2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Absolute bull cookies. China is quite capable of NOT polluting. As is India.

 

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Colonel-Potter-m-a-s-h-14058763-320-240.jpg.dc855a652dc4cb7dfd85c48c6baed4a6.jpg

 

 

Not if they're to catch up with us. 

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7 hours ago, eyeball said:

Why shouldn't the corporations that manufacture these things regard your idea as nothing more than a worthless economically harmful ideology boost? Especially since you're just as willing to sell tar sands oil to anyone and with no apparent care or concern about the environmental consequences?

The way to make a difference with the Tar Sands is to not ship it to inconsiderate nations where it will very likely be handled and utilized in the same haphazard and dangerous manner as the plastics we ship them. I also fail to see why we need to ban plastics if we can address the worst of the issue by refusing to ship it to inconsiderate nations that either don't care or can't afford to be more considerate towards the environment.  Its dumb to ignore an issue when we can easily do something about it.

Sure, if you like.  I'd rather ban them, but you can just ban the export if you want.  Neither is actually likely to happen.

Not selling tar sands oil will probably result in far worse environmental consequences as it is replaced with oil from other sources.   The tar sands are dirty, no doubt about it, but the regulations around their exploitation are probably the strictest in the world. 

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Not if they're to catch up with us. 

There's not much point in catching up to us if it costs us the planet.  Which it will, eventually.  We can all feel good about how fair the whole thing was though.

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7 hours ago, eyeball said:

Not if they're to catch up with us. 

 

Somebody still thinks Shanghai is a collection of old rickety buildings from Temple of Doom, eh?

Interesting. 

Edited by DogOnPorch

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On 9/19/2018 at 3:15 PM, betsy said:

:rolleyes:

Weren't you reading?  

What's the point of banning tar sands? 

 

Before you answer that - you read my posts.   Something tells me you're missing the point here.

Plastics are made from oil byproducts Betsy. 

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On 9/20/2018 at 8:47 PM, bcsapper said:

There's not much point in catching up to us if it costs us the planet.  Which it will, eventually.  We can all feel good about how fair the whole thing was though.

Maybe that's how the rich look at us middle class types. The more they keep us down, the more they can enjoy their pampered life styles.  So the plan is to keep people in other areas poor so richer nations can continue the wasteful lifestyles.  That's the wrong attitude to have , wrong approach. Apathy is the main cause of a lot of this, we are so desensitized to it all we really don't pay it any attention anymore.

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1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

Maybe that's how the rich look at us middle class types. The more they keep us down, the more they can enjoy their pampered life styles.  So the plan is to keep people in other areas poor so richer nations can continue the wasteful lifestyles.  That's the wrong attitude to have , wrong approach. Apathy is the main cause of a lot of this, we are so desensitized to it all we really don't pay it any attention anymore.

I don't think so.  I would be interested to know what sacrifices you would suggest we could make in the first world that would bring everyone else up to our standards without costing us the planet.  I don't believe there are any.  As a species, we are simply too numerous for the resources we have.  It's not through apathy that I don't consider the lack of clean water in Somalia when I turn the heat on in Alberta.

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5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Plastics are made from oil byproducts Betsy. 

Why?  Is there a ban for oil?

 

List of countries by oil production

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

 

 

That they singled out the tar sands, actually support my point!  Pick-n-choose!  

Nah.  There's no real urgency!

Edited by betsy

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2 hours ago, betsy said:

Why?  Is there a ban for oil?

 

List of countries by oil production

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

 

 

That they singled out the tar sands, actually support my point!  Pick-n-choose!  

Nah.  There's no real urgency!

It does show how ridiculous any ban on Alberta heavy oil/bitumen would be.  They could just up production in Kyrgyzstan or Myanmar instead.  I'm sure their regulators are on the ball.

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They made a mistake, they found it, admitted it and corrected it.  If only the orange-haired president you worship had as much honesty or character. 

And of course we can now expect this from you and your ilk: 

Quote

See? The climate change researchers made a mistake.' So you have this logical fallacy that everything that they've ever done is flawed and we can't trust any of it," Oransky said.

Again, if only you engaged in the same amount of skepticism when it comes to the daily lies spouted by Trump and his toadies.

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On 11/16/2018 at 7:26 AM, dialamah said:

They made a mistake, they found it, admitted it and corrected it.  If only the orange-haired president you worship had as much honesty or character. 

And of course we can now expect this from you and your ilk: 

Again, if only you engaged in the same amount of skepticism when it comes to the daily lies spouted by Trump and his toadies.

Ya, Trump thinks other countries pay the tariffs he imposes.

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11 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Ya, Trump thinks other countries pay the tariffs he imposes.

 

They must pay something...otherwise why would Trudeau and his Sunshine Band keep whining about them ?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tariffs-canada-us-trudeau-trump-congress-1.4938329

 

Meanwhile, back at the COP24 ranch > Russia, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and United States block another climate change "study"....

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/un-climate-welcome-study-report-objections-cop24-1.4938765

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Here is an important issue that is often overlooked in the green vs conventional energy debate and that is the fact of job creation.  In the last decade job growth in the green energy sector has far outstripped that of job creation in coal and oil.  Almost certainly this trend will continue as more and more green technology projects are approved.  This is an important trend as one of the concerns is that of job losses in the fossil fuel industry as the world turns more and more to green energy.  It seems in fact that the creation of jobs in green energy will more than make up for job losses in coal and oil. 

Global Green Energy Job Count Approaches the 10 Million Mark

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/global-green-energy-job-count-closing-in-on-10-million-mark

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Looks like Alberta is attempting to improve its image.  Five new wind farms have been approved for southern Alberta, two of them on First Nations' land. 

Private sector to invest $1.2 billion in five new southern Alberta wind farms

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/private-sector-to-invest-1-2-billion-in-five-new-southern-alberta-wind-farms-1.4221834

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On 12/18/2018 at 1:27 AM, Iznogoud said:

Here is an important issue that is often overlooked in the green vs conventional energy debate and that is the fact of job creation.  In the last decade job growth in the green energy sector has far outstripped that of job creation in coal and oil.  Almost certainly this trend will continue as more and more green technology projects are approved.  This is an important trend as one of the concerns is that of job losses in the fossil fuel industry as the world turns more and more to green energy.  It seems in fact that the creation of jobs in green energy will more than make up for job losses in coal and oil. 

Global Green Energy Job Count Approaches the 10 Million Mark

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/global-green-energy-job-count-closing-in-on-10-million-mark

This article seems to contradict yours. 

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/philip-cross-statcan-just-exposed-how-worthless-green-industries-are-to-canadas-economy

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13 hours ago, bcsapper said:

So it does, but that is certainly not the case world-wide.  Canada is a small player so far as green tech is concerned, but the US, China, and India and moving ahead on a massive scale.  Eventually Canada will catch up, after all Canada has numerous geographical factors that favour green energy.  I know that the oil and coal industry is going to oppose this, but it is going to happen anyway, especially if Canada is going to make any effort at all so far as efforts to curb global warming are concerned. 

I think this article fully supports my position.

Global renewable energy trends.

Solar and wind move from mainstream to preferred

https://www2.deloitte.com/insights/us/en/industry/power-and-utilities/global-renewable-energy-trends.html

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9 hours ago, Iznogoud said:

So it does, but that is certainly not the case world-wide.  Canada is a small player so far as green tech is concerned, but the US, China, and India and moving ahead on a massive scale.  Eventually Canada will catch up, after all Canada has numerous geographical factors that favour green energy.  I know that the oil and coal industry is going to oppose this, but it is going to happen anyway, especially if Canada is going to make any effort at all so far as efforts to curb global warming are concerned. 

I think this article fully supports my position.

Global renewable energy trends.

Solar and wind move from mainstream to preferred

https://www2.deloitte.com/insights/us/en/industry/power-and-utilities/global-renewable-energy-trends.html

But China is building coal power again.

https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/10761-China-is-building-coal-power-again/en

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8 hours ago, bcsapper said:

China never stopped building coal fired plants.  But its long term plan is to eventually close them all down and replace them with green tech.  This is going to be made easier by the fact that wind and solar are now cheaper than coal fired plants.  There are some problems with getting that power to market, as the best places for wind in China are not close to population centres, but over time this will probably be worked out. 

Canada faces a similar problem with the tar sands.  Development of this resource is important to the economy, but it is the largest single source of industrial pollution in Canada.  This creates a serious conflict of interest, with provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan depending on oil development for prosperity, while the rest of Canada is pushing for cleaner sources of energy. 

In any case this article outlines China's long term goals with regard to future power sources.

China Proposes 75% Increase To 2030 Renewable Energy Target

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/09/27/china-proposes-75-increase-to-2030-renewable-energy-target/

Whether China reaches this goal remains to be seen and it will depend on a number of factors, not the least of which is energy storage. 

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On 9/16/2018 at 11:43 AM, Zeitgeist said:

This is why we need government to step in.  Leaving it to individuals to do better on the environment isn't working.

Government does not know best. Government screws up everything it touches. All this environment climate nonsense is now just another excuse for the government to come up with a new tax which they now call a carbon tax so they can rip off Canadians even more of their money. The government or politicians are the last to give a shit about anything. The government just likes to put on a show that they care about the environment. The only thing that the government/politicians really care about is how to go about creating more new taxes, creating more new rules and regulations and have less freedom for we the people. Government/politicians need to step out of the way and stop feeding us constant bull shit every day. 

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18 hours ago, taxme said:

Government does not know best. Government screws up everything it touches. All this environment climate nonsense is now just another excuse for the government to come up with a new tax which they now call a carbon tax so they can rip off Canadians even more of their money. The government or politicians are the last to give a shit about anything. The government just likes to put on a show that they care about the environment. The only thing that the government/politicians really care about is how to go about creating more new taxes, creating more new rules and regulations and have less freedom for we the people. Government/politicians need to step out of the way and stop feeding us constant bull shit every day. 

The carbon tax isn't really a new tax.  Taxes on fuel have existed for decades; it is just a different name for the same thing.  And it could be worse.  Norway taxes internal combustion engines at up to 100%.  That is not a new ideas.  New Zealand brought in a similar tax in the 1970s taxing any car with an engine size over 1000 cc.

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