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Army Guy

The treatment of our Vets

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3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

It was also a period when some Great War vets were in positions of influence and didn't want to repeat the same betrayal.

They failed if today's state of affais is anything to go by.

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I really do not understand at all why using war bonds can't or shouldn't be used to fund our military and in hindsight, bcsappers idea about supporting individual soldiers really isn't as off the wall as it appears at first glance.

That's said, I also fail to see why people who sign up for this treatment, knowing full well what they're getting into, shouldn't bear more responsibility for the consequences of their choice. Il it's not like they were conscripted.

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22 hours ago, Rue said:

Please clarify. What are you responding to? Is it in response to Army Guy because again what the hell does I t have to do with a thing he said? Do explain your process for inferring the above from what he said. Sounds to me like you want to take a complex issue you can't understand that he explained and then because you could not understand it, project your own simplistic inferences on what he said to arrive at your new conclusion which reflects your confusion not his. Hope that was not too complex to decipher. Probably was. I am sure if he spoke of something you agreed with you would be the first on here using it to piss on your favourite targets.

 

Clarification : I can easily support the troops by putting a yellow ribbon or one of those stickers on my car. Now we know that's nothing more than a simple action that makes you feel good that does not require any real effort. Meaning you've done nothing. Your moral support really means nothing. I can say I support the troops, but short of any kind of action, the words and stickers mean squat.

The government cannot even take care of the troops when they come home, where the care and support is needed MOST.  So if you DO support the troops, do it when they get home and do it when the government decides to toss them out the door because they are no longer useful. We send them overseas and many suffer injuries that require help for life. PTSD is real and we need to treat and help those people. The government owes them that much for putting them in harms way on purpose. The government send them to war KNOWING that some are not coming back, and many will come back in very rough shape. But as long as the political goal is met, that's all that is cared about.

I understand it quite well. And in no way does my statement counter what Army Guy is saying. So in fact I AGREE with what Army Guy is saying. 

Interesting how you opened with a question, but then ended with speculation and projection, regardless without waiting for the clarification. Seems like you've already made up your mind about how I will react.

 

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3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I really do not understand at all why using war bonds can't or shouldn't be used to fund our military and in hindsight, bcsappers idea about supporting individual soldiers really isn't as off the wall as it appears at first glance.

That's said, I also fail to see why people who sign up for this treatment, knowing full well what they're getting into, shouldn't bear more responsibility for the consequences of their choice. Il it's not like they were conscripted.

That's the problem is it...you don't understand nor will you ever understand....and yet regardless of what you think or say OUR nations military will continue doing what they have been doing for hundreds of years...must really piss you off, that your tax dollars are spent on doing this every hour of everyday. 

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22 hours ago, eyeball said:

Sure it does.

You figure Canada is immune to a military coup or even should be especially when it's fallen under the spell of smarmy snot-nosed elitists like bcsapper?  

Where do you come up with this shit....

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2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Where do you come up with this shit....

From the same place the realization that debating anything with you people is usually an utter waste of time - especially in the case of the idiot I directed that towards. 

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2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

That's the problem is it...you don't understand nor will you ever understand....and yet regardless of what you think or say OUR nations military will continue doing what they have been doing for hundreds of years...

What isn't there to understand? Eliciting funds from private investors are how many nations, including ours, funded their militaries for centuries.

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must really piss you off, that your tax dollars are spent on doing this every hour of everyday. 

That's right. You get a lot of pleasure from that too don't you?

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Christ, it sounds like you guys treat your vets worse than we do. At least our people say thank you and there's some protections for vets, even if the VA hospitals treat them like merde. (in the US that is)

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On 9/28/2018 at 9:59 AM, GostHacked said:

So when the government tells Canadians to support the troops, it is because the government does not support our troops?? Colour me surprised.

Politicians don't give a rat's ass about our injured soldiers. I've said it before, take away the politicians pensions and benefits and give them to our vets who deseve them

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7 hours ago, Hates politicians said:

I've said it before, take away the politicians pensions and benefits and give them to our vets who deseve them

Yes, and here's your quote on this idiotic idea: "Ten cents in a veterans pocket rather than millions in a politicians pockets would suit me fine any day of the week."  

I respect what you are looking to do.  However, if you want to get rid of pensions for MPs then you will only have already-wealthy people run the country.  And then our beloved veterans will end up getting even less.  Why don't you try listening, and learning from others for a change ?  You might actually find ways to help veterans and see a way forward without resorting to dumb slogans.

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On 9/30/2018 at 1:56 PM, eyeball said:

I really do not understand at all why using war bonds can't or shouldn't be used to fund our military and in hindsight, bcsappers idea about supporting individual soldiers really isn't as off the wall as it appears at first glance.

 

How is that different from government borrowing money any other way?

 

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That's said, I also fail to see why people who sign up for this treatment, knowing full well what they're getting into, shouldn't bear more responsibility for the consequences of their choice. Il it's not like they were conscripted.

What a selfish attitude. Why would anyone want to join a military to protect the likes of you. Your police, firefighters, paramedics etc aren't drafted, maybe they shouldn't join either. Consider that when you need one of them.

Edited by Wilber

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13 minutes ago, Wilber said:

How is that different from government borrowing money any other way?

 

What a selfish attitude. Why would anyone want to join a military to protect the likes of you. Your police, firefighters, paramedics etc aren't drafted, maybe they shouldn't join either. Consider that when you need one of them.

When do we need them? Not to be facetious or a dick, but all the areas of combat are overseas. And in places we should not be. What are they protecting?

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11 minutes ago, Wilber said:

How is that different from government borrowing money any other way?

Its borrowing from investors who wish to lend the government/military their money instead of mine.

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What a selfish attitude. Why would anyone want to join a military to protect the likes of you.

You should realize by now I make a clear distinction between funding for the defence of our country against direct attack and mission or venture abroad.
 

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Your police, firefighters, paramedics etc aren't drafted, maybe they shouldn't join either. Consider that when you need one of them.

 

That's a bullshit comparison as I should know having been a volunteer fireman after all.  That said, its interesting how many firemen turn out to be arsonists and how many soldiers appear to support the sorts of misadventures that constitute my 'defence' these days.

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2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Its borrowing from investors who wish to lend the government/military their money instead of mine.

That applies to all government borrowing. Who do you think is going to pay the interest on and redeem those bonds, the Tooth Fairy?

 

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You should realize by now I make a clear distinction between funding for the defence of our country against direct attack and mission or venture abroad.

Are you going to conjure up a military on demand if the country is threatened? Do you think military and emergency response people should  have a personal veto over what duties they will carry out? If you are going to just cut them loose if they get hurt on the job, why shouldn't they?

 

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That's a bullshit comparison as I should know having been a volunteer fireman after all.  That said, its interesting how many firemen turn out to be arsonists and how many soldiers appear to support the sorts of misadventures that constitute my 'defence' these days.

See above.

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15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, and here's your quote on this idiotic idea: "Ten cents in a veterans pocket rather than millions in a politicians pockets would suit me fine any day of the week."  

I respect what you are looking to do.  However, if you want to get rid of pensions for MPs then you will only have already-wealthy people run the country.  And then our beloved veterans will end up getting even less.  Why don't you try listening, and learning from others for a change ?  You might actually find ways to help veterans and see a way forward without resorting to dumb slogans.

They already are.  Politicians getting minimum wage is in my opinion more than they are worth for what they do, which is absolutely nothing of value. A politician has less value than dog exhaust on the sidewalk.

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4 hours ago, Wilber said:

That applies to all government borrowing. Who do you think is going to pay the interest on and redeem those bonds, the Tooth Fairy?

There'd better well be conditions to that borrowing that preclude lenders being bailed out by people who want nothing to do with it.  Please don't lecture me on the merits of thinking things thru before discussing an issue that involves the waste of so much blood and treasure. 

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Are you going to conjure up a military on demand if the country is threatened?

There's only one country on Earth that can threaten us and they can't even knock off third world shit-holes.  If I was really concerned I'd build a handful of big nukes and tell them to fuck off. Seems to work for third rate dictatorships.

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Do you think military and emergency response people should  have a personal veto over what duties they will carry out? If you are going to just cut them loose if they get hurt on the job, why shouldn't they?

What do emergency response people have to do with this topic?  This isn't about saving lives or responding to disasters its about killing people in other countries in conflicts that have nothing to do with us. Quit changing the channel.  Soldiers should definitely have a veto over whether they should take part if they feel morally or ethically bound to not participate. Why should I expect support from people who feel what I was doing was morally and ethically wrong?

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See above.

Follow your own advice.

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9 hours ago, Hates politicians said:

1. Politicians getting minimum wage is in my opinion more than they are worth for what they do, which is absolutely nothing of value.

2. A politician has less value than dog exhaust on the sidewalk.

1. Suggest something better than.  Suggest improvements.  There's nothing more pathetic than a citizen who bawls about politicians and has nothing of value to suggest.  I tend to imagine them with a rattler and baby bonnet, and tears streaming down their face.

2. Your independently wealthy minimum wage politicians will cut pensions, and buy advertising telling people that they're making things great again.

Use your brain when you make suggestions, and when it's lacking just post that you don't understand, and listen to others...

 

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Suggest something better than.  Suggest improvements.  There's nothing more pathetic than a citizen who bawls about politicians and has nothing of value to suggest.  I tend to imagine them with a rattler and baby bonnet, and tears streaming down their face.

2. Your independently wealthy minimum wage politicians will cut pensions, and buy advertising telling people that they're making things great again.

Use your brain when you make suggestions, and when it's lacking just post that you don't understand, and listen to others...

 

Those politicians are the same assholes that tell us to Support the Troops when they themselves cannot nor WILL not even provide vets the help they need. The government is even asking for former and/or non-active duty soldiers to return their fucking rucksacks as they do not have enough to go around. If the supply of rucksacks are a problem, then that means the rest of the military is also in a huge deficiency.  Also the money is there for military contractors, but not for the military itself.

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2 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

 Those politicians are the same assholes that tell us to Support the Troops when they themselves cannot nor WILL not even provide vets the help they need.  

Sure, but saying 'Get rid of politicians' is useless bleating, and it feels into the narrative that the people are ignorant masses to be ignored.

Edited by Michael Hardner

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4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sure, but saying 'Get rid of politicians' is useless bleating, and it feels into the narrative that the people are ignorant masses to be ignored.

"Support The Troops" is also useless bleating. If the government cannot support them, how the hell does one expect the rest of us to support them? We pay enough taxes for it right?

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2 hours ago, GostHacked said:

"Support The Troops" is also useless bleating. If the government cannot support them, how the hell does one expect the rest of us to support them? We pay enough taxes for it right?

Sure but that's a different thing.  An emotive call for general unity and plea for support vs a prescription that some kind of anarchy or political gut punch to politicians would help us 

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3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sure but that's a different thing.  An emotive call for general unity and plea for support vs a prescription that some kind of anarchy or political gut punch to politicians would help us 

Why not punch some politicians? It's not citizens running the military. Maybe a few punched faces would get the message across.

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18 hours ago, eyeball said:

There'd better well be conditions to that borrowing that preclude lenders being bailed out by people who want nothing to do with it.  Please don't lecture me on the merits of thinking things thru before discussing an issue that involves the waste of so much blood and treasure. 

Like what? Why is it too much for you to think things through? You don't get a military on demand just when you want it. If that's what you want, get your own fucking military and pay for it yourself.

 

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There's only one country on Earth that can threaten us and they can't even knock off third world shit-holes.  If I was really concerned I'd build a handful of big nukes and tell them to fuck off. Seems to work for third rate dictatorships.

 I guess committing suicide is your idea of defence because that would be your only option

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What do emergency response people have to do with this topic?  This isn't about saving lives or responding to disasters its about killing people in other countries in conflicts that have nothing to do with us. Quit changing the channel.  Soldiers should definitely have a veto over whether they should take part if they feel morally or ethically bound to not participate. Why should I expect support from people who feel what I was doing was morally and ethically wrong?

 

 

The military are emergency response people, or don't you consider a war an emergency. Why should they defend someone the likes of you who would just cut them off if they are hurt on the job. Looking after you would be my first veto if I was in the military. Or do they only get to veto things you don't like and would have to get your permission.

 

.

Edited by Wilber

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On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 6:51 PM, GostHacked said:

When do we need them? Not to be facetious or a dick, but all the areas of combat are overseas. And in places we should not be. What are they protecting?

 

I can name dozens but start with this, how about the rescue of Canadian citizens in Lebanon a couple years back.... what about all those Syrian refugees we all were crying about, when that little boy washed ashore....yes that was a military operation....want some local examples FLQ crises, OKA, Ice storm, Winnipeg floods, fisheries patrol, anti drug patrols, or just patrolling our borders.... 

We are protecting Canadian interests around the globe, 24 hours a day , 365 days a year....be it fighting terrorists, or looking after Canadian foreign interests aboard....Even Switzerland has foreign interests...and the need to protect them...DND is also watching the skies every hour of the day, for uninvited guest, not to mention who do you think tracks Santa….well DND does at Xmas , the RCMP tracks him during the off season, apparently Santa likes to drink and fly.....who knew...

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18 hours ago, eyeball said:

What do emergency response people have to do with this topic?  This isn't about saving lives or responding to disasters its about killing people in other countries in conflicts that have nothing to do with us. Quit changing the channel.  Soldiers should definitely have a veto over whether they should take part if they feel morally or ethically bound to not participate. Why should I expect support from people who feel what I was doing was morally and ethically wrong?

Follow your own advice.

Because most of them sign on to unlimited liability as well meaning they may have to risk their own death, in their line of work....now cops/fire fighters have work man comp....soldiers do not.....it is the same fucking channel, except your the one that has no idea what your talking about....kind of like taking fishing advice from an army guy….not worth the 2 cents it is written on....but keep on using good band width on less than desirable ideas...YA nukes has done so much for Iran, North Korea….well at least you made a few people laugh...

Oh the military is up in the top ten organizations when it comes to saving lives, and they are the number one organization when it comes to responding to disasters...so when the lack of funding is a problem these capabilities are also placed on the chopping block....how many fishermen got their ass plucked our of the ocean by DND personal....ya the list is long....just not on your radar....

Soldiers are not allow to have a political voice  or run for office, take part in public forums, talk about anything military to a crowd or gathering...so where do they get there say....just at the voting both....that is military law,  Soldiers can refuse to go to any conflict, by declaring you want to be a conscientious objector, of course your days in the military are done, you'll be asked to leave, and enter the unemployment lines with a less than viable recommendation, one step up from being a convict...well there is always Mc Donald's they take most people.......  

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