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Army Guy

The treatment of our Vets

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On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:08 PM, GostHacked said:

We have the money to waste on a 4th Gen fighter that has yet to deliver and we cannot afford enough rucksacks.  It's WASTEFUL spending people are pissed off about.  We just made millions off of selling equipment to repressive nations like Saudi Arabia which is being used to cause problems elsewhere. But that money is more for the contractors that make out BIG time while screwing the taxpayer by charging to much, and is a direct contributing factor to soldiers not getting a simple rucksack. Because the government cannot afford it. 

 

Really, wasteful spending....How much has the nation spent in the last 4 years on new equipment purchases....most if not all major projects has been frozen with the exception of the F-18 replacement program, and then they only want something interm , so they can pass that on down the road.....if that is what you implying then Yes a waste of money....but don't say the people are Pissed off at wasteful spending.....they don't give a rats ass...how much fuss did Canadians make after we spent 4.5 bil on a pipeline.... 

The government can afford any purchase, I mean the contract for rucks sacks would be well under 100 mil, peanuts...what is the problem is lack of will, and the endless red tape to get anything done...

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We've been working Afghanistan for 15+ years.  It's a failure on our military/foreign  policy to actually pacify the area.  Also Afghanistan did not attack us, they did not even attack the USA. Al-Queda did. Most of them were Saudi's funded by Saudi money.  Where do you think we really should have gone?

No "WE" have not been working Afghanistan, we quit more than 5 years ago, why "public pressure" by it's citizens... ….Our nation turned their backs on Afghanistan, when the going got tough Canadians lost interest, and simply said we done, and pulled out, because it was popular...and staying was unpopular we did spend a few years after the fact training Afghanis soldiers to save some face...

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Afghanistan was a a failure right from the start. Guys like me and Eyeball would rather not have sent anyone to Afghanistan. Not sure home much clearer I can make that.  Even you admit it was a failure. We did not turn our back on Afghanistan, we did not want you there in the first place. We wanted our troops to stay home and not get involved in a conflict that would take close to 2 decades and is still not solved.

WOW, so a few Canadians did not agree on the Afghanistan mission, But the start of this whole journey the majority of Canadians wanted this mission.....so bad the liberals begged for it....they wanted nothing to do with Iraq....and after a few years Canadians wanted nothing to do with it....gone was the support soldiers had at home, gone was funding for new equipment, or supplies, gone was support from our government as they did not want to be unpopular, all that was left was our soldiers holding the whole bag of worms, and we did the best we could we all the very little we got from our nation, .. .....most Canadians wanted nothing to do with the military , sure they bought those support the troops stickers for their cars....but once again they did not give a shit....it would take 10 years of combat and over 160 soldiers to come home in bags, before Canadians made themselves heard...and our government to take action, we'd still be over there if the citizens did nothing or made their voices heard....It took them over 10 years... That is what I call supporting the troops...it was more like bend over Irene I'm driving...

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NO Afghanistan was NOT worth our time. Because we are still there 15 years later and little has changed. And you still want to blame citizens for the government's failure and not having a clear path forward for that nation?  But it worked out so well that several other nations got the same treatment, and with the same results. Again, you can blame the citizens for that too but you are going to get LESS support when doing that

Maybe we should publish a list of which nations we think are worthy of our blood, and treasure... maybe we can give it to immigration so we can keep those losers out of our nation...What was it about Afghanistan that 

I guess you have to go there and see, smell, taste, and feel how much Afghanistan really needed our help...How grateful most of the people were to have us there, and the Taliban gone. they were still grateful after we boarded the last plane home to Canada....We left with out finishing the job, you did not have to explain to them why we where leaving, like everything in Afghanistan we had to do that to...."we" were only there for 10 years, Then walked out.....the blood was from our military, it's citizens did not have to give a single drop, as for tax payers money on average each Canadian paid out 125 dollars a year, so forgive me if I don't get excited about your investment...

There is NO support now....and if it hurts Canadians to hear the truth then so be it....I guess we can only slag the government on this site, and not the people " to those that I have offended I'm sorry, but maybe it's time we look at our actions or inactions and own them.

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We don't spend money on defense, we spend if on offense.  A huge difference you are not allowing yourself to differentiate between.  

You lost me.....WTF

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That is only if the citizens believe in the mission and believe it is worth it. That was not the case with Afghanistan. We saw early on it was a waste of blood, money and resources. It was the attack on NYC back in 2001 that was the catalyst for much of this. Without that, this conversation would never have taken place.

Bullshit, goggle that shit tell me that at the start of this mission it did not have the majority of support across the nation....So what is the case with Afghanistan , are you telling me that the blessed citizens of this country had no fuc**** idea what they were doing in regards to this decision , then to top it all after they sent us there, they just forgot us there, no will to bring us home, no will to give us the funding , no will to do sweet nothing....That is I how I seen things from the inside of the fish bubble....now my account may differ from yours and you may have gotten butt hurt by my comments. but i'm not they only soldier that feels this way.

 

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You need to look at our government and how wasteful the spending is for the military. Again we've pissed a billion dollars on a plane we have yet to use, but no money for rucksacks. We can throw a billion at a failed pay system for our civil servants who got screwed countless ways, is that also the fault of the citizens? How do we control the wasteful spending when the government is not even sure how it spends the money.

Maybe the title needs to change to 'how Army Guy treats citizens with disdain while the government continues to screw him over.'

 

one more time...our government does nothing unless it has the support from the voters, If the voters wanted it , it would be a done deal....your example is only worth a few bil....I say again most major projects are frozen, not for the lack of funding , but the lack of will, it is not popular to spend money on the military..

Maybe they should change the title.

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On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 3:16 PM, eyeball said:

Hoping for a galvanizing event are you?

Our foreign policies have done the complete opposite of making us or our allies great.  If apathy is the best we can hope for in terms of putting the brakes on our military ambitions abroad then so be it.  I take cold comfort however because apathy truly is at the heart of the problem that gets under both our skins, In my case its the apathy Canadians exhibit towards the sorts of policies our governments enact and support that inevitably lead to the retaliatory pressure that triggers a galvanizing event.

Ignoring how our policies lead to galvanizing events is little different than actually engineering them.  

"utting the brakes on our military ambition abroad....wtf are you talking about, did we had just annex Poland or something like that, our military in it's present form could not take down town Toronto....

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12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Really, wasteful spending....How much has the nation spent in the last 4 years on new equipment purchases....most if not all major projects has been frozen with the exception of the F-18 replacement program, and then they only want something interm , so they can pass that on down the road.....if that is what you implying then Yes a waste of money....but don't say the people are Pissed off at wasteful spending.....they don't give a rats ass...how much fuss did Canadians make after we spent 4.5 bil on a pipeline.... 

And yet when we protest the government on that, no one seems to listen or care either.   And pipelines are built for oil companies, which turn around and sell us the end product, and not for cheap.  We spend 4.5 billion and we don't get anything out of it other than paying for it again at the pumps.

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

The government can afford any purchase, I mean the contract for rucks sacks would be well under 100 mil, peanuts...what is the problem is lack of will, and the endless red tape to get anything done...

Absolute bullshit. The government has to go into debt to afford those purchases. That's also passing the buck down the road where we will need to go into MORE debt because we cannot pay for the current stuff and yet need to get new stuff.But then you can blame the citizens again for that when the money is not there.

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

No "WE" have not been working Afghanistan, we quit more than 5 years ago, why "public pressure" by it's citizens... ….Our nation turned their backs on Afghanistan, when the going got tough Canadians lost interest, and simply said we done, and pulled out, because it was popular...and staying was unpopular we did spend a few years after the fact training Afghanis soldiers to save some face...

Canadian soldiers are still in Afghanistan. The mission is not over, it's just changed.  Again we did not turn our backs on them, we should NOT have gone into Afghanistan in the first place.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/international-campaign-against-terrorism-in-afghanistan

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The war in Afghanistan (2001-2014) was Canada's longest war and its first significant combat engagement since the Korean War. After the 2001 terror attacks on the United States, Canada joined an international coalition to destroy the al-Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban regime that sheltered it in Afghanistan. More than 40,000 Canadian Armed Forces members served in the 12-year campaign. The war killed 165 Canadians —158 soldiers and seven civilians. Although the Taliban were removed from power and the al-Qaeda network was disrupted, Canada and its allies failed to destroy either group, or to secure and stabilize Afghanistan.

What status does Al-Queda or the Taliban have in Afghanistan now?

 

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I guess you have to go there and see, smell, taste, and feel how much Afghanistan really needed our help...How grateful most of the people were to have us there, and the Taliban gone. they were still grateful after we boarded the last plane home to Canada....We left with out finishing the job, you did not have to explain to them why we where leaving, like everything in Afghanistan we had to do that to...."we" were only there for 10 years, Then walked out.....the blood was from our military, it's citizens did not have to give a single drop, as for tax payers money on average each Canadian paid out 125 dollars a year, so forgive me if I don't get excited about your investment...

Yes I understand that soldiers died in Afghanistan. Something me and people like Eyeball wanted to prevent in the first place. I think this is the part you are having trouble understanding. I did not want to invest lives into the failed that failed state.  Afghanistan was NEVER our fight.

However how the west helped previously was by arming Bin Laden and Al-Queda to fight off the Soviets. Which resulted in the attacks in NYC on 9/11 2001. It was only after 9/11 did anyone in the west give a flying fuck about Afghanistan.

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

There is NO support now....and if it hurts Canadians to hear the truth then so be it....I guess we can only slag the government on this site, and not the people " to those that I have offended I'm sorry, but maybe it's time we look at our actions or inactions and own them.

The truth was we should never have been in Afghanistan , full fucking stop bud.  Canadians did not VOTE in sending people to Afghanistan. The government did. Even if we did not support it, the government would have most likely sent troops in anyways due to the NATO commitment. And again to point out this was all because of the fallout of Sept 11 2001 in NYC.

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

You lost me.....WTF

Bullshit, goggle that shit tell me that at the start of this mission it did not have the majority of support across the nation....So what is the case with Afghanistan , are you telling me that the blessed citizens of this country had no fuc**** idea what they were doing in regards to this decision , then to top it all after they sent us there, they just forgot us there, no will to bring us home, no will to give us the funding , no will to do sweet nothing....That is I how I seen things from the inside of the fish bubble....now my account may differ from yours and you may have gotten butt hurt by my comments. but i'm not they only soldier that feels this way.

I don't get butthurt by comments.  But when you have a tragedy like 9/11 it's VERY VERY easy to garner support for anything. Within hours of the attack Bin Laden's name was coming up and then Afghanistan and Iraq were attacked.  The CIA should know it was Bin Laden as they helped him get to the point where he could be in a position to attack the USA. It's called blowback for good reason.

12 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 

one more time...our government does nothing unless it has the support from the voters, If the voters wanted it , it would be a done deal....your example is only worth a few bil....I say again most major projects are frozen, not for the lack of funding , but the lack of will, it is not popular to spend money on the military..

Maybe they should change the title.

Absolute bullshit again. The government overall does not care about you or me. Rucksacks are cheap, so why can't the government afford that but we can waste all the money on a 4th Gen fighter we have yet to receive? And really, what am I going to do about it? It's not that I am unwilling, it's a matter of knowing the results regardless.

We are even sending troops to Mali which is to end in a year, which again is nothing but bullshit. Did we get the chance to vote on that matter?? No.

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18 hours ago, Army Guy said:

"utting the brakes on our military ambition abroad....wtf are you talking about

Our allies, we're no less ambitious than our most ambitious. The less means we have to follow where they lead the better.

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17 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Our allies, we're no less ambitious than our most ambitious. The less means we have to follow where they lead the better.

No we don't. Our only obligation is to support our allies if they are attacked. Afghanistan was a NATO obligation, so we and other NATO countries went. Iraq was not, so we didn't.

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4 hours ago, Wilber said:

No we don't. Our only obligation is to support our allies if they are attacked. Afghanistan was a NATO obligation, so we and other NATO countries went. Iraq was not, so we didn't.

I thought it was Al-Queda that attacked the USA, not Afghanistan.  The NATO obligation is only valid if the attack was backed by a nation state. I guess one could go after the nation that funded the attack. But that was not Afghanistan either.  Wasted Canadian blood.  That is a complete dishonor to those who serve, and again totally OUT of the citizens control.

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2 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I thought it was Al-Queda that attacked the USA, not Afghanistan.  The NATO obligation is only valid if the attack was backed by a nation state. I guess one could go after the nation that funded the attack. But that was not Afghanistan either.  Wasted Canadian blood.  That is a complete dishonor to those who serve, and again totally OUT of the citizens control.

Al Queda was based in Afghanistan.

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10 hours ago, Wilber said:

Al Queda was based in Afghanistan.

I get that,  but were they part of the Afghanistan government? Afghanistan did not attack the USA on 9/11 2001.

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On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 8:48 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Since this person is the board's lone "white power" or "white heritage" or whatever-they-call-it's representative, I believe we can take this to be White Pride's patriotic stance on Canadian veterans.

Oh, ffs.  :blink:

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21 hours ago, Wilber said:

No we don't. Our only obligation is to support our allies if they are attacked. Afghanistan was a NATO obligation, so we and other NATO countries went. Iraq was not, so we didn't.

Why shouldn't NATO be just as obliged to keep its own members in check when one or two decide to go stir up shit around the world?  Why are friends not supposed to let their friends drive drunk?  Why are we not obligated to stop our allies from doing things that get them and us into trouble?   It was not Afghanistan that retaliated against us on 9/11.

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11 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Why shouldn't NATO be just as obliged to keep its own members in check when one or two decide to go stir up shit around the world?  Why are friends not supposed to let their friends drive drunk?  Why are we not obligated to stop our allies from doing things that get them and us into trouble?   It was not Afghanistan that retaliated against us on 9/11.

What had the US done to Afghanistan prior to 9/11? They actually helped them get rid of the Soviet Union.

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10 hours ago, Wilber said:

What had the US done to Afghanistan prior to 9/11?

Nothing.  Its what the US did to the people who retaliated on 9/11 that's at issue - the thing you and Army Guy keep trying to dodge.

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They actually helped them get rid of the Soviet Union.

 

It looks more to me like they helped the US. They did what the Americans were always afraid to do which is go toe to toe with the Russians themselves.  Afghanistan's thanks for doing the heavy lifting saw the US leave it high and dry.

The US has a lot of nerve lecturing the world about deadbeat allies and their obligations.

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:08 AM, GostHacked said:

And yet when we protest the government on that, no one seems to listen or care either.   And pipelines are built for oil companies, which turn around and sell us the end product, and not for cheap.  We spend 4.5 billion and we don't get anything out of it other than paying for it again at the pumps.

 

Not True, One man started that protest that swept the Nation, He accused DND of mishandling and abusing Afghanis detainees. So to say it has not been done is Bullshit....there is just a lack of will by the people, how could you not see that ? ....Your statements are saying the government are not puppets and act on the will of the people , soon Cannabis will be legal, who brought this to the governments attention, maybe justin is a closet pothead , I doubt it.... are you saying no one protested this issue...every year there has been a massive smoke in in Ottawa....all one has to do is look at an election platform....all the promises they make , and rarely keep....these are things the people want, and have voiced that in some format....

My point about the government spending an un forecasted 4.5 bil on Pipelines proves that there is funds available, Check how much DND and VAC budgets have been turned back in at the end of the year in just the last 4 years... They claim it can not be spent, Justin made a campaign promise to fix DND procurement woos  did he not , Not yet, no will to do it....

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Absolute bullshit. The government has to go into debt to afford those purchases. That's also passing the buck down the road where we will need to go into MORE debt because we cannot pay for the current stuff and yet need to get new stuff.But then you can blame the citizens again for that when the money is not there.

Not true, the government puts funding aside for major equipment purchases every year, that includes the funding we pay to be part of the F-35 program, those smaller purchases are taken out of DND budget, for things like ruck sacks, clothing etc , it is part of their OEM budget "yearly operating budget" So ask your self why are these purchases being made if DND is returning funds at the end of the year, because the purchasing system is broken, this is old news, DND does not buy anything over 25,000,  the government purchasing dept does all of that Called PWSG, , No will to fix it...not harpers government , and not Justin's, you could go back even further if you wanted to...

We have already reached the point where it is too expensive to return the capabilities we have lost since the 1990's , there was some estimates of over 100 bil is required.  Not for new capabilities but to replace the ones we have lost....you want to gain capabilities like UAV, drone, cyber warfare, that's extra....Once again ask your self when has any of this topic been an issue for the Canadian people...you can not blame the media because they have been reporting it to the public since the forever...so it is not like they don't know, there is just no will...so it continues to be put on the back burner, for future generations to pay for....or decide once and for all there is no will to have and support a military , and Canada will become a different place, good or bad I don't know...one without sovereignty that's for sure... 

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Canadian soldiers are still in Afghanistan. The mission is not over, it's just changed.  Again we did not turn our backs on them, we should NOT have gone into Afghanistan in the first place.

Check your source again, SO most of NATO was still in Afghanistan in 2011, in fact most were there up until 2014-15 when a few nations withdrew it's troops, while other including the US drew down the number of troops in country. We did turn our backs on the Afghanis people, the Afghanis government begged our government to stay.

I'll ask you the same question Why not Afghanistan, why was this country not worthy of our time ? why was Cyprus worthy, Yugo worthy, Korea worthy, WWI, WWII why where these worthy adventures for our nation and not Afghanistan...why is it we can mobilize for Syria but not Afghanistan....Maybe you and eyeball can answer that....is it we don't like brown people, I don't think your a racist guy, is it because we can't afford it...maybe it is not important enough, not worth our time, effort or resources ….did we need a picture of a baby boy washed up on shore to motivate everyone....so why not Afghanistan ?

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2012–2014: NATO Training Mission and withdrawal[edit]

On 9 December 2010, it was announced that after the end of combat operations in July 2011, Canadian Forces (approximately 950 newly posted specialized personnel) would be posted to the NATO Training Mission-Afghanistan to continue the training of the Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police.[30] Canada's contribution to this mission was dubbed Operation Attention and took place mostly around Kabul with some training occurring at Mazar-i-Sharif.[31]

By late 2013 Canada began withdrawing its final soldiers from the training mission. In October the force was down to 650 personnel from over 800 and the withdrawal from Afghanistan was scheduled to be completed by March 2014.[31] On 12 March the government announced with little fanfare that the mission was formally completed with a flag lowering ceremony held in Kabul.[32][33] The last 84 soldiers left Afghanistan on 15 March 2014, ending Canada's twelve-year military presence in the country.[34]

 

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Yes I understand that soldiers died in Afghanistan. Something me and people like Eyeball wanted to prevent in the first place. I think this is the part you are having trouble understanding. I did not want to invest lives into the failed that failed state.  Afghanistan was NEVER our fight.

I understand completely you and eyeball did not want to invest in Afghanistan, however we do live in a democratically elected country, where for the most part majority rules, and in the early years the majority of the people wanted and supported the governments decision to go over to Afghanistan and kill the shit of some bad guys....After DND tried to talk the government out of the deployment....NO said the government , Hell NO said the people we need to go , we need to go now....even after the CDS said we were NOT equipped or trained to this level of combat...still we went...we arrived with green combats, open air jeeps, the rest of NATO just shook their heads, that's the crazy canucks , and in the 10 years we were there we finally had the equipment and training....And when things did not move fast enough the people lost interest in the entire Afghanistan issue...why....no will 

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Absolute bullshit again. The government overall does not care about you or me. Rucksacks are cheap, so why can't the government afford that but we can waste all the money on a 4th Gen fighter we have yet to receive? And really, what am I going to do about it? It's not that I am unwilling, it's a matter of knowing the results regardless.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but our history is filled with examples of ONE person making a difference, google that shit....so it can be done, our country was built by these people....I'm sure if the liberal government came out in a few days and said it changed it's mind on Cannabis hundreds of thousands would swarm parliament to demand change...but we can't be bothered with our military or our vets...Even Omar had protesters that made a difference...and he was a terrorist.....me and other are Canadians, born and raised here with Canadian morals and values, that have sacrifice more than any Khadr could ever do in a thousand years , he got 10 million, , how does the song go, and we got the shaft....

Our vets are not asking for anything more than any other Canadian is entitled to....Our military are just asking for your support, and not some bumper sticker.....real support, write your MP, make your voice heard....because it does count, because it has to count...

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On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 9:15 AM, GostHacked said:

I get that,  but were they part of the Afghanistan government? Afghanistan did not attack the USA on 9/11 2001.

Yes Al Qaida was used as part of the talibans military, they had many different parts within the country, they did most of the killing of political rivals, adversaries, etc etc...The Taliban were not going to just give them up, let alone Bin ladin , The US had little choice....

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14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Yes Al Qaida was used as part of the talibans military, they had many different parts within the country, they did most of the killing of political rivals, adversaries, etc etc...The Taliban were not going to just give them up, let alone Bin ladin , The US had little choice....

And how did Al-Queda get so powerful?  Come on, this is not that hard!

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15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Not True, One man started that protest that swept the Nation, He accused DND of mishandling and abusing Afghanis detainees. So to say it has not been done is Bullshit....there is just a lack of will by the people, how could you not see that ? ....Your statements are saying the government are not puppets and act on the will of the people , soon Cannabis will be legal, who brought this to the governments attention, maybe justin is a closet pothead , I doubt it.... are you saying no one protested this issue...every year there has been a massive smoke in in Ottawa....all one has to do is look at an election platform....all the promises they make , and rarely keep....these are things the people want, and have voiced that in some format....

My statement was that the military troops are puppets of the government.  How you do you continue to misread exactly what I have posted? And ya gotta bring a non starter point of pot into this conversation.   Off topic and stupid.

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My point about the government spending an un forecasted 4.5 bil on Pipelines proves that there is funds available, Check how much DND and VAC budgets have been turned back in at the end of the year in just the last 4 years... They claim it can not be spent, Justin made a campaign promise to fix DND procurement woos  did he not , Not yet, no will to do it....

I cannot argue the fact that the government can easily whip up 4.5 B there and not on things like education or healthcare.  The government finds the money for the projects they want. Again hard to blame the citizens there, simply because people DID protest but the government rammed it through anyways. That is also a point I have been making and now it seems you finally get it.

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Not true, the government puts funding aside for major equipment purchases every year, that includes the funding we pay to be part of the F-35 program, those smaller purchases are taken out of DND budget, for things like ruck sacks, clothing etc , it is part of their OEM budget "yearly operating budget" So ask your self why are these purchases being made if DND is returning funds at the end of the year, because the purchasing system is broken, this is old news, DND does not buy anything over 25,000,  the government purchasing dept does all of that Called PWSG, , No will to fix it...not harpers government , and not Justin's, you could go back even further if you wanted to...

Yes their spending system is BROKEN.  That is what I have been saying for the past few pages, again thanks for catching up.

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We have already reached the point where it is too expensive to return the capabilities we have lost since the 1990's , there was some estimates of over 100 bil is required.  Not for new capabilities but to replace the ones we have lost....you want to gain capabilities like UAV, drone, cyber warfare, that's extra....Once again ask your self when has any of this topic been an issue for the Canadian people...you can not blame the media because they have been reporting it to the public since the forever...so it is not like they don't know, there is just no will...so it continues to be put on the back burner, for future generations to pay for....or decide once and for all there is no will to have and support a military , and Canada will become a different place, good or bad I don't know...one without sovereignty that's for sure...

War has changed and cyber attacks are the most common attacks now. And if our networking infrastructure is not secure and safe,  it wont help keep our infrastructure going, then we are going to be sitting in the dark when a major cyber attack happens. The computer is now the most powerful weapon on the planet.

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Check your source again, SO most of NATO was still in Afghanistan in 2011, in fact most were there up until 2014-15 when a few nations withdrew it's troops, while other including the US drew down the number of troops in country. We did turn our backs on the Afghanis people, the Afghanis government begged our government to stay.

There were some negotiations for the Taliban and other tribal leaders to be part of the solution. How the fuck is that working out? Afghanistan was NEVER our fight to begin with. Not sure how much I can stress this.  It was NEVER our fight to begin with.

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I'll ask you the same question Why not Afghanistan, why was this country not worthy of our time ? why was Cyprus worthy, Yugo worthy, Korea worthy, WWI, WWII why where these worthy adventures for our nation and not Afghanistan...why is it we can mobilize for Syria but not Afghanistan....Maybe you and eyeball can answer that....is it we don't like brown people, I don't think your a racist guy, is it because we can't afford it...maybe it is not important enough, not worth our time, effort or resources ….did we need a picture of a baby boy washed up on shore to motivate everyone....so why not Afghanistan ?

WWI and WWII , I won't even get into that, but our 'Allies' have been making places like Syria completely unstable. It was not the USA nor Saudi Arabia, nor Israel, that got rid of ISIS in Syria. That win goes to Syria and Russia.  Also, fuck you for trying to bring racism into this, that's a really weak ploy in an attempt to make an argument.

Afghanistan was never worthy of our time. Full fucking stop.

As far as Cyprys, Yugoslavia, Kosovo,  I do not know enough about the missions or the political climate at the time, so I cannot really make a coherent argument either way.

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I understand completely you and eyeball did not want to invest in Afghanistan, however we do live in a democratically elected country, where for the most part majority rules, and in the early years the majority of the people wanted and supported the governments decision to go over to Afghanistan and kill the shit of some bad guys....After DND tried to talk the government out of the deployment....NO said the government , Hell NO said the people we need to go , we need to go now....even after the CDS said we were NOT equipped or trained to this level of combat...still we went...we arrived with green combats, open air jeeps, the rest of NATO just shook their heads, that's the crazy canucks , and in the 10 years we were there we finally had the equipment and training....And when things did not move fast enough the people lost interest in the entire Afghanistan issue...why....no will 

Again, after the attack on Sept 11 2001, you could have gained support to invade Russia. It's EASY to rally the citizens for anything after such a life changing event.

The only things invested in Afghanistan was for foreign corps to take over and do what they will. Big oil being part of that.  It's about stealing the resources so nations like China and Russia cannot get at it.  That's the part you are missing. You do not even really know WHY we went there.  You still think it was for the Afghan people? Please. And if we knew going in we were not prepared, that is another problem of the government's inability to spend the money where it's needed. 

How am I going to scrutinize the governments books on military projects that might not even be ON the books?

Quote

I'm sorry you feel that way, but our history is filled with examples of ONE person making a difference, google that shit....so it can be done, our country was built by these people....I'm sure if the liberal government came out in a few days and said it changed it's mind on Cannabis hundreds of thousands would swarm parliament to demand change...but we can't be bothered with our military or our vets...Even Omar had protesters that made a difference...and he was a terrorist.....me and other are Canadians, born and raised here with Canadian morals and values, that have sacrifice more than any Khadr could ever do in a thousand years , he got 10 million, , how does the song go, and we got the shaft....

Our vets are not asking for anything more than any other Canadian is entitled to....Our military are just asking for your support, and not some bumper sticker.....real support, write your MP, make your voice heard....because it does count, because it has to count...

Wow, I pointed out the bumper sticker part some pages back. I support our troops. I do NOT have to support the mission.   One more time so you can let it sink in,  we need to really help support the troops AFTER the mission. Long term care ect. That was the initial notion of the thread which which we agree on. But you STILL want to put the blame on the citizens instead of the government who calls the shots.

However as we both agree the government cannot seem to find the money to help the wounded troops that need long term care.  And that is where we need to start. So how do you propose we FIX the issue?

Edited by GostHacked

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It comes down to how to spend collected tax dollars. We all know that. We also know it's about making priorities in public policies as to what we spend that money on. Then it becomes a discussion as to what money currently being spent should be instead spent on social services for vets. 

For starters the 10 million given Kadr. Obviously the question will come down to priorities as to where to spend tax dollars. You want to find wasted money, I think it will take far longer to  explain than any attention span exhibited by leftists on this forum can handle. You geniuses can't handle too many sentences.

Edited by Rue

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

You geniuses can't handle too many sentences.

Thank you for saying so in less than the 5000 sentences you usually use.

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

It comes down to how to spend collected tax dollars. We all know that. We also know it's about making priorities in public policies as to what we spend that money on. Then it becomes a discussion as to what money currently being spent should be instead spent on social services for vets. 

For starters the 10 million given Kadr. Obviously the question will come down to priorities as to where to spend tax dollars. 

I'm pretty sure collecting fines and penalties its owed takes priority with the government so I fail to see why its paying them shouldn't as well.  Reparations as with all consequences should definitely have been accounted for...before starters...so to speak.   

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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 12:38 PM, GostHacked said:

And how did Al-Queda get so powerful?  Come on, this is not that hard!

Look a while back I said I did not want to debate with you, as you already had your mind made up, and there was no changing it....You told me you were interested in hearing my side of the story, that we could have a conversation, ....one without all the attitude, and name calling...guess your done with all that...I'm not interested in an angry exchange of words, so I guess I'm done...

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16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Look a while back I said I did not want to debate with you, as you already had your mind made up, and there was no changing it....You told me you were interested in hearing my side of the story, that we could have a conversation, ....one without all the attitude, and name calling...guess your done with all that...I'm not interested in an angry exchange of words, so I guess I'm done...

I don't care if you don't want to debate me. One way to avoid opposing opinions you don't like on publicly available forums is to not post. Not ONCE have I called you any names. But me defending my stance with some passion is not giving attitude.  I heard your side of the story and I think you are wrong. It's that simple really. I gave it a chance, but unfortunately all of your arguments fall FLAT against the backdrops of the facts over the past 15 years of why we went into Afghanistan and how our government fails to supply the troops to an adequate level.

You also tried to bring racism into the conversation when it was not going your way. And I simply shut you down on it. Again, that's not attitude.

However you SHOULD be angry that the government that cannot equip the soldiers as needed when sending them to war. Your stance of being mad at the people in all this  will make most of the citizenry angry and you will get less support for the troops.

So how are vets being treated? And who's fault is it?

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On 10/14/2018 at 12:09 PM, GostHacked said:

 ..Off topic and stupid.

...again thanks for catching up. 

...Also, fuck you for trying to bring racism into this, that's a really weak ploy in an attempt to make an argument.

...One more time so you can let it sink in..

 

Those are just some of the words that establish your tone. Remember that when you respond denying you engage in personalization. 

Edited by Rue

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On 10/14/2018 at 11:38 AM, GostHacked said:

And how did Al-Queda get so powerful?  Come on, this is not that hard!

Read back the above. It sets the tone for your arrogance. Come on its not that hard to figure out!

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On 10/7/2018 at 6:00 PM, eyeball said:

You're avoiding the point which is that many Canadians do..

Everyone of your responses has. Everyone of Ghosts posts has. Michael Gardner's sophistic lecture on healing the government avoided the issue.

This is not about foreign policy you don't agree with. This is not about you, your political ideology.

This is about posttraumatic stress syndrome and allocating sufficient funds to provide post war pyscho-therapy. It's about proper re-entry support..family and relationship, vocational, job placement counselling. It's about housing. It's about access to proper artificial limb maintenance, learning sign language, braille or how to use make up and wigs with burn scars. It is about coping with chronic pain, bad backs, knees, hips, shoulders that don't work, migraines, bloody ears and noses, jaw pain, incontinence, impotence, constant digestion problems.

Not one of you will discuss the real issue. You run from it. The vets need nurses, counsellors, facilities, equipment,  sufficient diapers, caphiters, medication, dental, skin, other kinds of care.

This isn't about the horseshit on this thread you use to avoid the topic. It is about taking money and instead of spending it on certain projects re-routing it to vet affairs.

Edited by Rue

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