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Ottawa's secret consultations on racism


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12 hours ago, h102 said:

Define which sub-groups you are talking about, read all the studies I have presented above, you'll see they are.

Who says the whites were more qualified to begin with?  But if your definition of equity means a preferential hiring to nonwhites, when the history of this country despite equity is usually preference in hiring underqualified whites, aren't you the guy who always said how underqualified Justin Trudeau was?  Isn't Trudeau white? O, but that doesn't fit your agenda of underqualified minorities taking whites jobs.

The equity argument is largely a crock. The Chinese and many South Asians excel in our school system and economy. Even black activists now argue that the problem isn't really systemic racism per se but instead is "anti-black" racism, which is supposedly grounded in specifically prejudicial attitudes that lead to undue discrimination against this population. The systemic discrimination argument doesn't work, I guess, when it's clear that some visible minority populations have comparatively less trouble succeeding both professionally and economically than do others, particularly beyond the first generation of immigrants. As the NP article on visible minority representation in academia - which I cited earlier in this thread - illustrates, some minority groups are now over-represented while others remain underrepresented. And this is in an environment where widespread "equity" hiring practices have been operative for quite some time. So even within a supposedly equity-based program, where the majority population is effectively excluded, outcomes are demonstrably unequal. Interesting, right? There's a strong argument to be made that success in our society is based more on the strength of families as well as the inherent cultural values, particularly the emphasis they place on education, they impart to their kids. Race, or at least minority racial status, may well be a much less relevant determinant of success than many activists seem willing to contemplate or admit.

As for the multiple citations in your previous post, please provide context for each and explain how it supports you argument(s). I think you're making an awful lot of assumptions that may not hold up in the real world and may not be applicable to Canada at all.

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Of course, one has to assume the Trudeau government is only interested in hearing polarized, predetermined positions that are unaffected by reason, evidence, facts or rational thought, provided they b

Ah, but you apparently fail to understand the "progressive" catch-all mentality that castigates as racist and bigoted any/all criticism of our open-ended immigration and refugee policies. Rational eco

Gosh, if only Canadians could "debate", rather than sticking to polarized, predetermined positions unaffected by reason, evidence, facts or rational thought.

19 hours ago, turningrite said:

The equity argument is largely a crock. The Chinese and many South Asians excel in our school system and economy. Even black activists now argue that the problem isn't really systemic racism per se but instead is "anti-black" racism, which is supposedly grounded in specifically prejudicial attitudes that lead to undue discrimination against this population. The systemic discrimination argument doesn't work, I guess, when it's clear that some visible minority populations have comparatively less trouble succeeding both professionally and economically than do others, particularly beyond the first generation of immigrants. As the NP article on visible minority representation in academia - which I cited earlier in this thread - illustrates, some minority groups are now over-represented while others remain underrepresented. And this is in an environment where widespread "equity" hiring practices have been operative for quite some time. So even within a supposedly equity-based program, where the majority population is effectively excluded, outcomes are demonstrably unequal. Interesting, right? There's a strong argument to be made that success in our society is based more on the strength of families as well as the inherent cultural values, particularly the emphasis they place on education, they impart to their kids. Race, or at least minority racial status, may well be a much less relevant determinant of success than many activists seem willing to contemplate or admit.

Your entire argument is a crock.  Dispute each study one by one, point by point including the cited studies underlying.

Provide proof the Chinese and "many" South Asians excel in our school system. Provide proof Chinese Canadians excell economically, last I checked they have lower incomes than whites and Jamaican Canadians on statscan profiles. Now prove how Chinese excelling in school prove there is no anti-black racism.  Now prove that anti-chinese racism is always directly caused and proves anti-black racism.  By your logic, since Japanese excelled in 1930s Germany, there was no anti-jewish racism?

 

There is no such strong argument that your fantasy family structure which not all Chinese have leads to some magical outcome.  There is a huge gap between Korean and Japanese average incomes in Canada, yet they have very similar family structures in the country.

 

Anti-black racism continues to be a problem in Canada, Canada never enslaved Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, but it did to black people.

 

19 hours ago, turningrite said:

As for the multiple citations in your previous post, please provide context for each and explain how it supports you argument(s). I think you're making an awful lot of assumptions that may not hold up in the real world and may not be applicable to Canada at all.

Read them all and get back to me, it was your ilk who denied there were studies and demanded citations, now you go and read them and learn about discrimination.

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23 hours ago, h102 said:
       
     
     
     
     
   

This is why the old white guy coming and denying discrimination will look like a buffoon, the studies are so overwhelming it would be like a flat earther arguing for a flat earth in this day and age.  

Anyone who puts massive quantities of foreign cites onto a web site discussion and thinks a single person is going to read them is certainly a buffoon.

Nothing in any of that crap has any relationship to Canada anyway.

23 hours ago, h102 said:

You also seem to be forgetting their are literally thousands of cases in the Human Rights Tribunal where the government's own body is finding discrimination every day.

Irrelevant. No one said discrimination did not exist. I asked for a cite of institutional racism in Canada and you failed to produce one.

23 hours ago, h102 said:

They are from the 3rd world, but they come from large cities and elite backgrounds,they come to Canada with substantial education and beat out other people who want to come here by the millions.

90% of immigrants arrive as either refugees, or the families of the few skilled immigrants who come here. And even the skilled immigrants can have problems due to lack of language skills and lack of acceptable credentials.

23 hours ago, h102 said:

Most of the white people coming over then did not even have high school educations,

Neither did most Canadians.

23 hours ago, h102 said:

this was one of the factors that led to the door being closed, the Southern and Eastern Europeans were really backwards,

The door was not closed. Canada simply had more difficulty attracting people from Europe as European standards of living increased.

 

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23 hours ago, h102 said:

Who says the whites were more qualified to begin with?  

Well if they weren't then there was no need for equity hiring, now was there.

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4 hours ago, h102 said:

1.) Dispute each study one by one, point by point including the cited studies underlying.

2.) Provide proof the Chinese and "many" South Asians excel in our school system. Provide proof Chinese Canadians excell economically, last I checked they have lower incomes than whites and Jamaican Canadians on statscan profiles.

3.) Now prove how Chinese excelling in school prove there is no anti-black racism. 

4.) Now prove that anti-chinese racism is always directly caused and proves anti-black racism.  

5.) By your logic, since Japanese excelled in 1930s Germany, there was no anti-jewish racism?

6.) There is no such strong argument that your fantasy family structure which not all Chinese have leads to some magical outcome. 

7.) Read them all and get back to me, it was your ilk who denied there were studies and demanded citations, now you go and read them and learn about discrimination.

Maybe you just don't read very much? In any case, here are my responses to your bizarre insults and assertions:

1.) See Argus's comment on this.

2.) Duh? Where do you live? Read the G&M article cited below. The success of Chinese and South Asian students in North American school systems is so widely documented that it's simply impossible to dispute. Stats Can data is not necessarily a reliable indicator of the real income or wealth of Chinese Canadians. Reportedly, even Stats Can has indicated that self-reported declarations of low or zero income aren't reliable indicators of poverty in certain immigrant-dominated locales. Many of the Vancouver area's toniest neighbourhoods, characterized by upscale housing, show up in self-reported data as low-income enclaves. See the Vancouver Sun article below about this apparently distorting phenomenon.

3.) Who said that? Not me. You seem to be creating things to criticize.

4.) Huh? From where did that whopper of an analogy/question emerge?

5.) Huh? From where did that whopper of an analogy/demand emerge?

6.) It's a pretty well-understood reality, actually. Do some reading. Maybe re-read the G&M article, below.

7.) Again, see Argus's comment on this and maybe leave your apparent pretension and ideological perspective at the door - at least if you're interested in constructive and rational debate.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/study-stretches-past-tiger-mom-theory-to-probe-student-success-among-ethnic-groups/article17923536/

https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/thousands-of-metro-vancouver-mansion-owners-avoiding-taxes

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12 hours ago, Argus said:

Anyone who puts massive quantities of foreign cites onto a web site discussion and thinks a single person is going to read them is certainly a buffoon.

You demanded sources, now won't read them, you are a troll.

12 hours ago, Argus said:

Nothing in any of that crap has any relationship to Canada anyway.

You didn't read it so you don't know.

12 hours ago, Argus said:

Irrelevant. No one said discrimination did not exist. I asked for a cite of institutional racism in Canada and you failed to produce one.

I produced a list you refused to read.

12 hours ago, Argus said:

90% of immigrants arrive as either refugees, or the families of the few skilled immigrants who come here. And even the skilled immigrants can have problems due to lack of language skills and lack of acceptable credentials.

90% are not refugees.

 

12 hours ago, Argus said:

Neither did most Canadians.

The door was not closed. Canada simply had more difficulty attracting people from Europe as European standards of living increased.

No, they closed the doors in the 30-40s as the Eugenics movement picked up.  You seem to forget Trudeau even apologized for it.

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32 minutes ago, h102 said:

You demanded sources, now won't read them, you are a troll.

You didn't read it so you don't know.

I produced a list you refused to read.

90% are not refugees.

No, they closed the doors in the 30-40s as the Eugenics movement picked up.  You seem to forget Trudeau even apologized for it.

Where do you come up with this stuff? While it's not correct that 90 percent of Canada's immigrants enter something other than skilled immigrants, it's also not true that a majority of Canada's immigrants enter as skilled immigrants. If you want a good overview of some of the big problems with Canada's immigration system, perhaps you might read the Fraser Institute document linked below. (Actually, please read the document and respond on a point-by-point basis, as you apparently demand others do where your citations are concerned.) We operate in this country under misapprehensions about immigration that are grounded more in politics than economic logic. For instance, as the Fraser Institute document points out, and contrary to government and business posturing, immigration cannot realistically solve Canada's demographic concerns arising from falling fertility rates. A major Australian study of that country's large-scale immigration program reached the same conclusion. Meanwhile, large-scale immigration is creating many social and economic distortions that are generating and will in the future generate serious and potentially negative consequences for Canadian society. For the sake of the country's future, we need to be objective and truthful about these matters. We all have a stake in this. I believe that immigration advocates and big business (which has its own agenda) have had too much power over immigration policy in this country while ordinary Canadians have been afforded too little input. 

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/EffectsofMassImmigration.pdf

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9 hours ago, turningrite said:

Maybe you just don't read very much? In any case, here are my responses to your bizarre insults and assertions:

1.) See Argus's comment on this.

His comment was wrong.

9 hours ago, turningrite said:

2.) Duh? Where do you live? Read the G&M article cited below. The success of Chinese and South Asian students in North American school systems is so widely documented that it's simply impossible to dispute. Stats Can data is not necessarily a reliable indicator of the real income or wealth of Chinese Canadians. Reportedly, even Stats Can has indicated that self-reported declarations of low or zero income aren't reliable indicators of poverty in certain immigrant-dominated locales. Many of the Vancouver area's toniest neighbourhoods, characterized by upscale housing, show up in self-reported data as low-income enclaves. See the Vancouver Sun article below about this apparently distorting phenomenon.

Provide proof, sources. Stats can which records the numbers is unreliable but you who have no data are reliable. Care to explain how low income people are living in the "toniest" parts of town?

 

9 hours ago, turningrite said:

3.) Who said that? Not me. You seem to be creating things to criticize.

It was your suggestion.

9 hours ago, turningrite said:

4.) Huh? From where did that whopper of an analogy/question emerge?

5.) Huh? From where did that whopper of an analogy/demand emerge?

6.) It's a pretty well-understood reality, actually. Do some reading. Maybe re-read the G&M article, below.

These are not arguments, produce the studies and the data proving this.  You need to do the reading because the studies show racism is the problem, not family structure.

9 hours ago, turningrite said:

7.) Again, see Argus's comment on this and maybe leave your apparent pretension and ideological perspective at the door - at least if you're interested in constructive and rational debate.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/study-stretches-past-tiger-mom-theory-to-probe-student-success-among-ethnic-groups/article17923536/

https://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/thousands-of-metro-vancouver-mansion-owners-avoiding-taxes

"The tax unfairness caused by the growing phenomenon of mansion owners alleging poverty can be traced largely to Canada failing to catch trans-national migrants who refuse to report their total global income at tax times."

So you are suggesting that these are of course Asians and therefore Asian disproportionately engage in tax fraud (financial Crimes) to evade taxes (more $$$ crime).  Then you claim its Asians just study more is why they are wealthier than carribean Canadians, not because they engage in financial crimes. You are actually proving your own arguments wrong. (even though stats can shows most Asian subgroups are poorer than Jamaican Canadians but you dispute those results)  I'm sure Jamaican Canadians would be a lot richer if they evade taxes and committed financial fraud in large numbers, who wouldn't be?

 

"Ley cites a Chinese-Canadian Historical Society report that two of three Hong Kong males who obtained a Canadian passport work and live outside the country. A Citibank official in East Asia estimated only 10 per cent of trans-national migrants’ assets are initially transferred to Canada.

The tax implications for Canada are disturbing. How many Canadians who are rich in assets and property, but low in reported income, are not paying their fair share for public services. How many are even receiving welfare cheques, free dental work and GST refunds because they are “poor?”

"Non-disclosure of assets is a cultural trait of ethnic Chinese, Jenny Kwan is quoted saying at the time in Millionaire Migrants."

All from your article, if financial crimes are a trait of Chinese, and Chinese are getting rich, don't you bother to use your common sense and realize if they are secretly rich from financial crimes that explains why they are rich, not education?

As for your globe and mail study, it was largely focused on southern california, didn't really touch on Carribeans.  But I will take your bait and pretend it doesn't ignore Carribeans.

"The children of Chinese and Vietnamese immigrants, Lee says, are also positively influenced by professional and educational role models in their community. At school, they benefit from the positive ethnic stereotype of the diligent hard-working student. In the study, Lee says, parents pushed for their children to be in advanced classes – and some students even admitted to being bumped up by teachers even if their marks didn't justify it."

" As well, Lee says, Asian students may have the highest academic outcomes, but studies suggest they also have the lowest self-esteem."

"Black students are far less likely to be placed in gifted programs, even if they have the same test scores as their white peers and especially if their teacher is white, according to a new study by researchers at Vanderbilt University."

“It is startling that two elementary school students, one black and the other white with identical math and reading achievement, will have substantially different probabilities of assignment to gifted services,” said Jason Grissom, the lead author.

The study was based on data from more than 10,000 elementary school students across the nation."

 

Whites discriminate in education against blacks, but also have a "positive" discrimination in favor of Asians in education and even give them EXTRA grades.

 

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20 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Where do you come up with this stuff? While it's not correct that 90 percent of Canada's immigrants enter something other than skilled immigrants, it's also not true that a majority of Canada's immigrants enter as skilled immigrants. If you want a good overview of some of the big problems with Canada's immigration system, perhaps you might read the Fraser Institute document linked below. (Actually, please read the document and respond on a point-by-point basis, as you apparently demand others do where your citations are concerned.) We operate in this country under misapprehensions about immigration that are grounded more in politics than economic logic. For instance, as the Fraser Institute document points out, and contrary to government and business posturing, immigration cannot realistically solve Canada's demographic concerns arising from falling fertility rates. A major Australian study of that country's large-scale immigration program reached the same conclusion. Meanwhile, large-scale immigration is creating many social and economic distortions that are generating and will in the future generate serious and potentially negative consequences for Canadian society. For the sake of the country's future, we need to be objective and truthful about these matters. We all have a stake in this. I believe that immigration advocates and big business (which has its own agenda) have had too much power over immigration policy in this country while ordinary Canadians have been afforded too little input. 

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/EffectsofMassImmigration.pdf

Fraser institute is a right wing hacks, I won't even read it.

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14 hours ago, h102 said:

Your entire argument is a crock.  Dispute each study one by one, point by point including the cited studies underlying.Provide proof the Chinese and "many" South Asians excel in our school system. Provide proof Chinese Canadians excell economically, last I checked they have lower incomes than whites and Jamaican Canadians on statscan profiles....Canada never enslaved Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, but it did to black people.

I can't speak for other racial groups, but I can say with some authority on Chinese.  While we didn't "enslave" them, we allowed and encouraged a very large number to come to Canada to build a railroad under conditions far more dangerous than the general population ever had to face.  When it was over and done with, we passed an exclusion act that kept Chinese from immigrating - often meaning to join families back together once well esatblished as Canadians.

If you know China and Chinese, you would understand that they will NEVER willingly report their financial status to any government.  It is impossible to get accurate statistics from them here, never mind in China.   However, my own experience is that Chinese immigrants, and especially second generation do much better than average academically.

While we did not enslave Japanese, we were only too happy to take their property and imprison whole families for the heinous crime of being Japanese.  Compared with the relative welcome wagon at the end of the underground railway, these two Asian identities have paid a fair price for being in Canada.

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12 minutes ago, h102 said:

Fraser institute is a right wing hacks, I won't even read it.

Then don't demand that others read the links you post. Quid pro quo. Got it?

By the way, I suspect you won't read the Fraser Institute material because doing so would force you to challenge your preconceived views. If you looked at the document, you'd realize that it consists of a compilation of several credible academic analyses. Interestingly, Australia's recent comprehensive study of its immigration program reached conclusions that in several aspects largely mirror the Fraser Institute's analyses. Two Western countries with large-scale immigration programs that are generating similar issues and problems... Hmmm.... It seems there's a trend. There must be something to it, right?

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3 hours ago, h102 said:

You demanded sources, now won't read them, you are a troll.

You didn't read it so you don't know.

The titles were all of foreign studies not applicable to Canada.

3 hours ago, h102 said:

90% are not refugees.

I didn't say they were. The majority are 'family class' who are people sponsored by people here. About 10% are refugees who have become permanent residents. Of those who come in under the 'skilled' program, only about 25% are actually skilled. The rest are their immediate family members.

3 hours ago, h102 said:

No, they closed the doors in the 30-40s as the Eugenics movement picked up.  You seem to forget Trudeau even apologized for it.

No, they didn't. We were taking tons of Europeans right through the sixties.

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On 10/25/2018 at 10:30 AM, cannuck said:

I can't speak for other racial groups, but I can say with some authority on Chinese.  While we didn't "enslave" them, we allowed and encouraged a very large number to come to Canada to build a railroad under conditions far more dangerous than the general population ever had to face.  When it was over and done with, we passed an exclusion act that kept Chinese from immigrating - often meaning to join families back together once well esatblished as Canadians.

If you know China and Chinese, you would understand that they will NEVER willingly report their financial status to any government.  It is impossible to get accurate statistics from them here, never mind in China.   However, my own experience is that Chinese immigrants, and especially second generation do much better than average academically.

While we did not enslave Japanese, we were only too happy to take their property and imprison whole families for the heinous crime of being Japanese.  Compared with the relative welcome wagon at the end of the underground railway, these two Asian identities have paid a fair price for being in Canada.

 

Welcome wagon at the end of the underground railway?

"Canadian immigration authorities attempted to stop the arrival of Black immigrants from the United States by limiting their access to immigration material and by submitting them to tough medical exams at the border. They even bribed certain medical officials, writes researcher R. Bruce Shepard. When those measures did not work, immigration officials sent two agents to Oklahoma, whose job was to dissuade Blacks Americans from immigrating. Both agents (one of whom was a doctor) went from town to town and employed many of the same tactics: they told Black Americans that crossing the border would be a difficult and even debasing experience; that once in Canada, they would encounter the same racial prejudice as in America; that Canadian lands were difficult to maintain; and, that the cold Canadian climate would adversely affect their health.

Border agents also treated Black immigrants unfairly. They denied certificates that verified a Black person’s status as farmer (immigration officials considered farmers as ideal settlers) and refused to provide Black immigrants with certificates that would reduce their train fare (settlers were offered a reduced rate).

On 12 August 1911, Cabinet approved Order-in-Council P.C. 1911-1324, which read:

For a period of one year from and after the date hereof the landing in Canada shall be and the same is prohibited of any immigrants belonging to the Negro race, which race is deemed unsuitable to the climate and requirements of Canada."

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/order-in-council-pc-1911-1324-the-proposed-ban-on-black-immigration-to-canada#AntiBlackRacisminCanada

We cannot debate our own experiences, there is no way to prove or disprove them and experiences are subjective events.  The point is, Canada has and continues to have a much more hostile disposition towards African Canadians than Asians.  Japanese got reparations for internment, Chinese got paid for the head tax, Native Indians get reparations every year, African Canadians were not only left high and dry, our government actively destroyed their communities 9Africville and paid them nothing right into the 1960s. 

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On 10/25/2018 at 10:35 AM, turningrite said:

Then don't demand that others read the links you post. Quid pro quo. Got it?

By the way, I suspect you won't read the Fraser Institute material because doing so would force you to challenge your preconceived views. If you looked at the document, you'd realize that it consists of a compilation of several credible academic analyses. Interestingly, Australia's recent comprehensive study of its immigration program reached conclusions that in several aspects largely mirror the Fraser Institute's analyses. Two Western countries with large-scale immigration programs that are generating similar issues and problems... Hmmm.... It seems there's a trend. There must be something to it, right?

Right wing hacks down under like up here.  Just more fake news.

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On 10/25/2018 at 1:16 PM, Argus said:

The titles were all of foreign studies not applicable to Canada.

You use American stats when convenient, produce a study that shows Canadian whites do not share American white racist results in studies.

On 10/25/2018 at 1:16 PM, Argus said:

I didn't say they were. The majority are 'family class' who are people sponsored by people here. About 10% are refugees who have become permanent residents. Of those who come in under the 'skilled' program, only about 25% are actually skilled. The rest are their immediate family members.

Agreed.

On 10/25/2018 at 1:16 PM, Argus said:

No, they didn't. We were taking tons of Europeans right through the sixties.

We did, but we also closed the doors to non-whites in the 30s which back then meant anyone outside of north west europeans ancestry.  Jews, eastern europe, southern europe, they couldn't come here, we had anti greek riots in toronto in the early 1900s, people saw them as brown invaders ruining a good white country.

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On 10/27/2018 at 6:40 PM, h102 said:

Right wing hacks down under like up here.  Just more fake news.

Your mind seems closed to facts and logic where this issue is concerned. The dreamy "progressive" mindset, apparently. Keep on sleeping. 

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On 10/27/2018 at 4:38 PM, h102 said:

 

Welcome wagon at the end of the underground railway?"Canadian immigration authorities attempted to stop the arrival of Black immigrants from the United States by limiting their access to immigration material and by submitting them to tough medical exams at the border. ate).

On 12 August 1911, Cabinet approved Order-in-Council P.C. 1911-1324, which read:

For a period of one year from and after the date hereof the landing in Canada shall be and the same is prohibited of any immigrants belonging to the Negro race, which race is deemed unsuitable to the climate and requirements of Canada."

Thanks for the post and links.   I had not read THAT version, just the glowing reports written long after the fact.

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On 10/29/2018 at 12:54 PM, turningrite said:

Your mind seems closed to facts and logic where this issue is concerned. The dreamy "progressive" mindset, apparently. Keep on sleeping. 

You refused to read studies, but I am closed minded because I realized the discussion was useless because you just wanted to push your opinion and not consider facts.

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12 hours ago, cannuck said:

Thanks for the post and links.   I had not read THAT version, just the glowing reports written long after the fact.

Are you serious or is this sarcastic?

I am curious which version of history did you read and from where?

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1 hour ago, h102 said:

Are you serious or is this sarcastic?

I am curious which version of history did you read and from where?

Since 95% of Blacks in Canada are immigrants or first generation Canadians born to those immigrants what does it matter?

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1 hour ago, h102 said:

You refused to read studies, but I am closed minded because I realized the discussion was useless because you just wanted to push your opinion and not consider facts.

I don't believe that you've explained how any of your links specifically pertain to the situation in Canada. Racialist activists in Canada often point to circumstances in the U.S., in particular, but also elsewhere, to substantiate their ideological claims, a strategy that's largely devoid of relevance. While most Canadians and Americans share a common language, the social and political histories of the two countries vary significantly. So, rather than simply wallpapering this string with links, please explain their significance to the debate in this country in relation to the topic, which is our federal government's reportedly secret consultations on racism.

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1 hour ago, turningrite said:

I don't believe that you've explained how any of your links specifically pertain to the situation in Canada. Racialist activists in Canada often point to circumstances in the U.S., in particular, but also elsewhere, to substantiate their ideological claims, a strategy that's largely devoid of relevance.

 

Agreed, Canada has its own racialized history that is easily found with a bit of digging.   I used to think that the preponderance of U.S. related hits on Google searches influenced how much American data is used in Canadian ideological claims, but it is far more fundamental to how Canadian media presents/understands (or obscures) actual domestic history and circumstances.   Many media outlets in Canada will invariably make references to American circumstances to compare/contrast Canadian events as if to add more credibility regardless of relevance.    I see this as a crutch and applaud Canadian news media content that explicitly avoids falling into this trap.

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5 hours ago, h102 said:

Are you serious or is this sarcastic?

I am curious which version of history did you read and from where?

many decades ago, not sure of the source, but it was written by Canadians with stories of how well we received those fleeing from USA. Also, maybe 20 years ago, a former business associate living in Chatham said similar things (as in they were well received in Canada - at least around Chatham).   Have held onto that notion ever since, since I have never seen (or sought) anything else on the topic until your links.

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