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turningrite

Ending birthright citizenship

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Trump and many U.S. conservatives have long opposed broad birthright citizenship entitlement. According to a report today (see below), Trump now plans to issue an executive order to end the practice of conferring citizenship on babies born to parents in the U.S. where neither parent has official legal status in that country. While this may well be controversial, I suspect it's also prudent. Perhaps, if Trump is able to achieve this, we'll have to revisit our citizenship rules relating to such births as well as there will likely be a spillover effect of encouraging more birth tourism to Canada if the U.S. ends the practice.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-trump-says-he-wants-to-end-birthright-citizenship-for-some-us-born/

Edited by turningrite
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6 minutes ago, Wilber said:

It's already a problem in Canada.

It's a noble idea that is being badly abused.

 

BC Health Lawsuit.

Birther tourism up over 2000% since 2010 in Richmond

Exactly.  It's about time this nonsense ended.  Otherwise, ban anyone that's pregnant from visiting.

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32 minutes ago, dialamah said:

He's also creating a task force to examine applications of immigrants, and if they find an error, omission or a deliberate lie, stripping those people of their citizenship.

"Making America White Again".

 

Where was the outrage when Obama began doing exactly the same thing? But really, what was wrong with him doing that? As for Trump, he's rightfully continuing the process, emphasizing that you should not lie or cheat to become a citizen. There's always a reason why people lie and cheat. Were Obama's people called a "task force"? Was it a witch hunt under Obama? How did Obama decide who gets re-examined? With Obama, apparently nobody cared. Under Trump, apparently, now the media (AKA anti-Trump crowd) care an awful lot.

 

Quote

In fact, like a number of practices, including mass deportations, it builds on the legacy of the Obama Administration, which set in motion the process of reëxamining old naturalization files. 

 

Edited by Centerpiece

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24 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Where was the outrage when Obama began doing exactly the same thing? But really, what was wrong with him doing that? As for Trump, he's rightfully continuing the process, emphasizing that you should not lie or cheat to become a citizen. There's always a reason why people lie and cheat. Were Obama's people called a "task force"? Was it a witch hunt under Obama? How did Obama decide who gets re-examined? With Obama, apparently nobody cared. Under Trump, apparently, now the media (AKA anti-Trump crowd) care an awful lot.

I'm not outraged so much as resigned.   It's true that the Obama administration did the same thing, but "building on" certainly suggests a more focused effort.  I would say that the goal of the previous administration would have been to identify people who were in the US who really shouldn't be, while the Trump administration's goal is to find excuses to get rid of people they don't like - Muslims, Mexicans, maybe gays or transsexuals.  People inclined to vote Democrat.

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45 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I'm not outraged so much as resigned...  the Trump administration's goal is to find excuses to get rid of people they don't like - Muslims, Mexicans, maybe gays or transsexuals.  People inclined to vote Democrat.

I think you're taking this a bit far where the issue of birth tourism is concerned. The issue here is whether people, whatever their origin(s), should have a right to citizenship for their children without any significant attachment to a country. In Canada, none of the groups you mention is likely to be heavily impacted by restrictions on birth tourism and in the U.S. perhaps only Mexicans might be significantly affected. In order to remain legitimate, access to citizenship should be subjected to realistically strict parameters. The one area where restricting birthright citizenship might pose a problem is where children are born to a parent or parents who are refugee claimants. However, I'm sure this issue can be adequately addressed by lawmakers in order to avoid the prospect of creating "stateless" children.

Edited by turningrite

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I suspect most Americans would agree to this, as would most Canadians. It is Trump, once again figuring out how the general public's desires have been ignored by the mainstream politicians and capitalizing on it.

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4 minutes ago, turningrite said:

I think you're taking this a bit far where the issue of birth tourism is concerned. The issue here is whether people, whatever their origin(s), should have a right to citizenship for their children without any significant attachment to a country. In Canada, none of the groups you mention is likely to be heavily impacted by restrictions on birth tourism and in the U.S. perhaps only Mexicans might be significantly affected. In order to remain legitimate, access to citizenship should be subjected to realistically strict parameters. The one area where restricting birthright citizenship might pose a problem is where children are born to a parent or parents who are refugee claimants. However, I'm sure this issue can be adequately addressed by lawmakers in order to avoid the prospect of creating "stateless" children.

Realistically, you will have some stateless children, because what happens when the child is born outside the parents home nation, the parent was often times themself of dubious origin...

Ie. there were many middle eastern wars that made tons of refugees, people who were run out of their houses and had no time to take documents to prove who they were, often they belong to minority ethnic groups in this country and no one wants to recognize them, they then leave their country illegally to get a chance somewhere else and have kids.  This is how people end u stateless.

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3 minutes ago, h102 said:

Realistically, you will have some stateless children, because what happens when the child is born outside the parents home nation, the parent was often times themself of dubious origin...

Ie. there were many middle eastern wars that made tons of refugees, people who were run out of their houses and had no time to take documents to prove who they were, often they belong to minority ethnic groups in this country and no one wants to recognize them, they then leave their country illegally to get a chance somewhere else and have kids.  This is how people end u stateless.

How, then, could they get into Canada? In general, it's not easy to get here other than on a visa and I suspect that very few visas to enter the U.S. or Canada are granted to stateless individuals. Most among the recent surge of refugee claimants entering Canada from the U.S. legally entered and/or were permitted to reside in the U.S. prior to coming here. I believe that most of the children born in Canada to those without Canadian permanent residency or citizenship are born to those who legitimately hold citizenship somewhere else. I think the biggest single problem that might emerge would be where children are born to a parent or parents who are failed refugee claimants who haven't been removed from Canada. In the U.S., the biggest problem will likely emerge among those who are born to a parent or parents who are residing there illegally. Any applicable law restricting birth tourism, whether here or in the U.S., could fairly easily address the issue of whether a child born to a parent without adequate status has a reasonable claim to citizenship somewhere else.

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Birthright citizenship for illegal immigrants is mostly a New World idea.   The United States has made birthright citizenship changes before to include , not exclude natural born citizens (e.g. ex-slaves and Native Americans born on sovereign reservations).    Trump would still face a serious Supreme Court challenge because of the 14th Amendment (1868), which exists because of the flawed Dred Scott decision and post Civil War political environment dominated by Republicans.

 

birthright-map-big_custom-a1ef0e76144c30

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3 hours ago, dialamah said:

I'm not outraged so much as resigned.   It's true that the Obama administration did the same thing, but "building on" certainly suggests a more focused effort.  I would say that the goal of the previous administration would have been to identify people who were in the US who really shouldn't be, while the Trump administration's goal is to find excuses to get rid of people they don't like - Muslims, Mexicans, maybe gays or transsexuals.  People inclined to vote Democrat.

All your opinions.......

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1 minute ago, Centerpiece said:

All your opinions.......

For sure.   Certainly not based on anything other than my own analysis of the situation as it's developed because there was no statement put out by the White House that they were looking for ways to strip citizenship from Mexicans and Muslims, eh?

2 hours ago, turningrite said:

I think you're taking this a bit far where the issue of birth tourism is concerned.

Yeah, it just reminded me because I'd read the story about 'denaturalising' Americans recently.

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17 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

We've completely lost Vancouver to the Chinese.  Even they'll tell you that.

True.  You need a Visa to enter, checkpoints on the borders of Burnaby, Delta and North Van.  Makes it tough for tourists to get to Whistler since most of the world hasn't yet realized that Vancouver has become a Chinese territory and they don't get the right Visa. I haven't been into Vancouver in the last few days, but I've heard that all English signs have been removed and non-Chinese people are all being deported to refugee camps in Burnaby and North Van.  

Its very sad.

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21 hours ago, turningrite said:

Trump and many U.S. conservatives have long opposed broad birthright citizenship entitlement. According to a report today (see below), Trump now plans to issue an executive order to end the practice of conferring citizenship on babies born to parents in the U.S. where neither parent has official legal status in that country. While this may well be controversial, I suspect it's also prudent. Perhaps,

if Trump is able to achieve this,

we'll have to revisit our citizenship rules relating to such births as well as there will likely be a spillover effect of encouraging more birth tourism to Canada if the U.S. ends the practice.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-trump-says-he-wants-to-end-birthright-citizenship-for-some-us-born/


 

Quote

 

Argus

I suspect most Americans would agree to this, as would most Canadians. It is Trump, once again figuring out how the general public's desires have been ignored by the mainstream politicians and capitalizing on it.

 

 

Say, what??? 

 

Boy.....see what I mean?

Anti-Trumps like Argus who gave you a like,  (I don't remember your position on Trump).....are cheering Trump's decision about this!

Why do you have to wait for Trump?   Why can't you urge the government here to start changing now????

Why are you counting on Trump???  :lol:

 

You're both beginning to sound like me.....counting on Trump to also make changes in .............Canada!

Edited by betsy

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16 hours ago, dialamah said:

He's also creating a task force to examine applications of immigrants, and if they find an error, omission or a deliberate lie, stripping those people of their citizenship.

"Making America White Again".

 

 

You're saying all colored immigrants are liars?   My, aren't you being racist?

Edited by betsy

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15 hours ago, dialamah said:

I'm not outraged so much as resigned.   It's true that the Obama administration did the same thing, but "building on" certainly suggests a more focused effort.  I would say that the goal of the previous administration would have been to identify people who were in the US who really shouldn't be, while the Trump administration's goal is to find excuses to get rid of people they don't like - Muslims, Mexicans, maybe gays or transsexuals.  People inclined to vote Democrat.

 

Why shouldn't it be focused?    What's the point of doing something if you're not going to make the effort to get the result that it's supposed to have?   Obama's wasn't really in on it - he was doing it for votes! Trump is serious about it.   That's the difference.

What.....you want it to be just like a joke?    Spend billions to create that.....for nothing????

Edited by betsy

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16 hours ago, Wilber said:

It's already a problem in Canada.

It's a noble idea that is being badly abused.

 

BC Health Lawsuit.

Birther tourism up over 2000% since 2010 in Richmond

:rolleyes:

Noble idea, my foot.

The left would be shouting the house down - shaming and  branding anyone who'd suggest that as racist - if not for Trump, being shamelessly blunt and transparent about it - FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE!

See?   Trump is the "voice" for those who are cowed from saying what he's saying!   Even you!  Never thought you'd be saying that's a noble idea.....though i don't know what you mean by "being badly abused."  :)

 

If there is anyone  being badly abused.....it's Canadians!  We're the ones who end up paying for the free ride, right?

Edited by betsy

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8 hours ago, dialamah said:

True.  You need a Visa to enter, checkpoints on the borders of Burnaby, Delta and North Van.  Makes it tough for tourists to get to Whistler since most of the world hasn't yet realized that Vancouver has become a Chinese territory and they don't get the right Visa. I haven't been into Vancouver in the last few days, but I've heard that all English signs have been removed and non-Chinese people are all being deported to refugee camps in Burnaby and North Van.  

Its very sad.

You can mock all you like, but that doesn't change the facts.  

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24 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

You can mock all you like, but that doesn't change the facts.  

 

Vancouver: the rich foreigners and those that serve them coffee. 

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6 hours ago, betsy said:

:rolleyes:

Noble idea, my foot.

The left would be shouting the house down - shaming and  branding anyone who'd suggest that as racist - if not for Trump, being shamelessly blunt and transparent about it - FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE!

See?   Trump is the "voice" for those who are cowed from saying what he's saying!   Even you!  Never thought you'd be saying that's a noble idea.....though i don't know what you mean by "being badly abused."  :)

 

If there is anyone  being badly abused.....it's Canadians!  We're the ones who end up paying for the free ride, right?

So you are agreeing with Wilber here.

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5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

So you are agreeing with Wilber here.

Unless he means it's Canadians who are getting abused by this!

Edited by betsy

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He has a point about illegal immigrants using births as a way to stay in the country, and it's nothing to do with being 'white' or not....    I doubt it will pass a legal test tho. 

ETA:  guess he realizes that cos he's backing off now,  saying he would rather go through Congress.  

Edited by scribblet

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