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JamesHackerMP

Feds finally get serious about Gerrymandering in Maryland

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I agree with you; the United States is a democratic republic, but it's also a federation and has to be represented like it. Things are more "democratic" at the state level where you have referenda, directly-elected governors (no state has an electoral college to elect the governor), and more frequently-updated state constitutions. The "ridings" (we call federal ridings "congressional districts" and state ridings "legislative districts") are smaller at the state level and contain less constituents. But of course, gerrymandering can eek into state redistricting as well.

Before you see any wholesale reform or replacement of the electoral college, there needs to be the same of the presidential PRIMARIES first. Otherwise, a reform of the electoral college (or its termination) will be meaningless. If the primaries were different, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton might not have been NOMINATED in the first place.

But that's another topic.

Gerrymandering is hurting democracy, however. I worry less about the Electoral College than I worry about state and federal gerrymandering.

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17 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

That's what I said it was.

It has to do with the electoral college system because high density areas are always full of people in need of social assistance, ie Dem voters.

If you split up the electoral boundaries in a way that has just the right amount of high-density areas in each electoral riding then you can win for the Dems.

If you split up the electoral boundaries in a way that keeps the high-density, low-income areas in some ridings and suburban/rural areas together in other ridings the Republicans win. 

No, they engineer ridings so that their supporters represent a majority. The result is states like Pennsylvania where the Republicans got 45% of the vote but 55% of the seats. Some of their electoral maps look like a box of distorted pieces of ginger, as if  ginger isn’t distorted enough already.

The US system also allows state legislatures to pull the same garbage when it comes  to drawing federal boundaries. It is a thouroghly corrupt system that allows politicians to pick their voters rather than the other way around.

Edited by Wilber

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On 11/16/2018 at 9:23 AM, WestCanMan said:

That doesn't mean anything without an accompanying map.

If you look at the map of how districts voted in the US federal election in 2016 it's almost entirely red. The blue dots are a small fraction of the overall map, but they're in the areas with heavy population concentrations. 

So in a place like Carolina, if you get a close vote in 10 large geographical areas and then a solid Dem win in 3 areas it tilts the vote.

Can you really turn a small area like Metrotown in Burnaby into 6 ridings? Not ideally. Should they get to determine the fate of the entire city of Burnaby? Not ideally.

Do you seriously believe that 50%+ of the vote equaling less than 1/3 of the seats represents any kind of a democratic result?

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On 12/7/2018 at 7:29 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

The U.S. is not a pure democracy...it is a constitutional republic with democratic elements, with the primary objective of preventing tyranny by the majority.

America almost became a communist style government of tyranny if Hillary had been elected. Hillary was not one that believed in the American constitution or freedom of speech and thanks to the American constitution swampsters like Hillary have not been able, so far, been allowed to try and destroy the constitution. Just look at how they work and think today. It's constantly go get Trump minute of every day by democrats and on fake news outlets like CNN and MSNBC. This is pointed out every night on FOX News. If this is all the democrats have to offer to we the American people, then Trump should be a shoo in, I say should be a shoo in, for another four years after the next election. I guess that only time will tell. 

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On 12/11/2018 at 7:44 AM, Wilber said:

Do you seriously believe that 50%+ of the vote equaling less than 1/3 of the seats represents any kind of a democratic result?

Tough to say. Do you want the people from 3 sq km of a city center to control a whole state? That's not good either.

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On 12/11/2018 at 7:40 AM, Wilber said:

No, they engineer ridings so that their supporters represent a majority. The result is states like Pennsylvania where the Republicans got 45% of the vote but 55% of the seats. Some of their electoral maps look like a box of distorted pieces of ginger, as if  ginger isn’t distorted enough already.

The US system also allows state legislatures to pull the same garbage when it comes  to drawing federal boundaries. It is a thouroghly corrupt system that allows politicians to pick their voters rather than the other way around.

I don't know how you see my comments meaning something else. Maybe you need to read those responses again, or maybe you're just reading a definition from wiki and you don't really understand it completely.

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On 12/11/2018 at 10:44 AM, Wilber said:

Do you seriously believe that 50%+ of the vote equaling less than 1/3 of the seats represents any kind of a democratic result?

Doesn't the same thing happen in Canada? or similar? (because of first past the post voting)

I certainly do not want people in CA and TX controlling the country. Pure "democracy" is overrated. On the other hand, the will of the people should operate in the government--albeit NOT absolutely.

Edited by JamesHackerMP

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