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The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice. Is Christianity a moral creed?

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The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice. Is Christianity a moral creed?

 

I find Christianity immoral for substitutionary atonement as well as many others of their moral tenets.

 

Without the blood sacrifice of Jesus, Christianity fails as a salvific religion.

 

We could thump all day with passages that both support blood sacrifice as well as quote the many passages against it as shown with both types of quotes in this link.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

 

Recognizing that there are many contradictory passages in scriptures, let’s ignore them all and just look at the morality of substitutionary atonement.

 

Scriptures tell us that to perfect our wisdom, we must get out of the Christian theology. I think that those passages are asking us to confirm our thinking with analogies that do not include Christian dogma.

 

With that in mind, I offer an analogy for discussion.

 

 Scriptures say we are all children of God.

 

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

 

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?

 

In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended?

 

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

 

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

 

Do you agree that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.  Do you agree that to abdicate personal responsibility or use a scapegoat is immoral?

 

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

 

Regards

DL

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56 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice. Is Christianity a moral creed?

Well the theme of human sacrifice isn't new, every ancient culture had it. I would say it was borne out of necessity. If you're to survive the winter best a child or elderly get sacrificed to save the rest of the family. One less mouth to feed. Again you have to view the bible with some historical context, it's almost 2000 years old. It was a different time back them.

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7 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Do you agree that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.  Do you agree that to abdicate personal responsibility or use a scapegoat is immoral?

My take on it is that Jesus wasn't just the son of God, he actually WAS God. Thus the analogy of it being another innocent person paying the price fails.

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On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 1:20 PM, paxamericana said:

Well the theme of human sacrifice isn't new, every ancient culture had it. I would say it was borne out of necessity. If you're to survive the winter best a child or elderly get sacrificed to save the rest of the family. One less mouth to feed. Again you have to view the bible with some historical context, it's almost 2000 years old. It was a different time back them.

Not all cultures. I would say few. You do have a point where resources were finite and a population could not be allowed to exceed the resources.

That has nothing whatsoever to the scapegoating of Jesus.

Regards

DL

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On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 8:13 PM, OftenWrong said:

 

My take on it is that Jesus wasn't just the son of God, he actually WAS God. Thus the analogy of it being another innocent person paying the price fails.

So you do not believe that God cannot die. Strange when he is said to be eternal. Ok.

Why call the nailed guy God then?

He was not special if he can die like the rest of us and never return.

Regards

DL

 

 

 

 

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On 1/4/2019 at 8:16 PM, French Patriot said:

Not all cultures. I would say few. You do have a point where resources were finite and a population could not be allowed to exceed the resources.

That has nothing whatsoever to the scapegoating of Jesus.

Regards

DL

If you're talking about the literal sacrifice of Jesus it is symbolic of sacrificing something now for the future. It's a story that was meant to teach us to value the future and not give into fleeting impulses of the present. 

I'm not sure what your angle is but as an Atheist my criticism of other atheist is that they view the bible and religion too harshly, they need to view it as a source of ancient wisdom meant to convey an idea. Those idea while subject to interpretation and often times for malignant purposes still contain within them the collective knowledge of your ancestors. Religion therefore should be view as a moral compass, leading one to live a life towards meaning instead of nihilism that so many atheist and unlearned/non-believers find themselves in. You can't dispense with thousands of years of ancient wisdom written by our ancestor and expect society to function. Those wisdom are borne out of a chaotic past and often paid for in blood. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water a wise Canadian once said... 

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13 hours ago, paxamericana said:

If you're talking about the literal sacrifice of Jesus it is symbolic of sacrificing something now for the future. It's a story that was meant to teach us to value the future and not give into fleeting impulses of the present. 

I'm not sure what your angle is but as an Atheist my criticism of other atheist is that they view the bible and religion too harshly, they need to view it as a source of ancient wisdom meant to convey an idea. Those idea while subject to interpretation and often times for malignant purposes still contain within them the collective knowledge of your ancestors. Religion therefore should be view as a moral compass, leading one to live a life towards meaning instead of nihilism that so many atheist and unlearned/non-believers find themselves in. You can't dispense with thousands of years of ancient wisdom written by our ancestor and expect society to function. Those wisdom are borne out of a chaotic past and often paid for in blood. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water a wise Canadian once said... 

I am all in for some of what you put, but to look to immoral religions, like our mainsteam ones for moral guidance is like asking Satan to guide us.

If you are living by the Golden Rule, you will condemn and fight against the mainstream religions.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

                        

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

 

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

 

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

 

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes.  Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.

 

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.

 

Regards

DL

 

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