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Should Canada suspend relations with China?


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What he is saying tho, is that most of us only do business with China through American companies who are at the NYSE and NASDAQ in Manhattan, and so take profits in US dollars under US jurisdiction and so protected from the Chinese.  For example AAPL in Cupetino contracts to Foxconn at Taipei, who then have subsidiary on the mainland.

But you takes your profits from that activity in China, in US dollars at New York, so China only matters as it matters to Chimerica, ergo what the Chinese are doing to people in China, is of no particular concern to the American Hegemonic market.

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The country Justin Trudeau most admires because their basic dictatorship can get things done has just sentenced a human rights lawyer who they disappeared several years ago, to another 4 and a half ye

Purposefully misrepresenting my statement is nothing but trolling.

Should we suspend relations? I mean, it would be their loss, since they're exporting way more to us than the other way around. 

Time for trudeau to do wahrt is right for once. And that is stick with our allies and tell china to take thier government controlled company and shove it. If trudeau allows them to set up shop here, we will have absolutely no friends left in the world. And all back our ambassador from china, because the man is not capable of doing the job. He was sent thier so trudeau could hide him and the chinese know that.

Edited by PIK
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As to the competence of the Canadian Ambassador to China, John McCallum PC, I've met the man and spoken to him at some length, when he was Minister for National Defence, and he seemed an eminently reasonable fellow to me, and very advised, particularly to the mechanisms of government, trade, and associated diplomacy, so I find him to be quite capable, and that's probably why they chose him.

But he didn't make any of this happen, because this was sprung on Canada no notice, by the Americans.  My assumption is as part of a FVEY operation inclusive to the ongoing Huawei information war between FVEY and the PLA.

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1 hour ago, turningrite said:

China has played its hand very badly in its dispute with Canada. The rest of the Western world, and its allies, are now on notice that China is not a reliable or palatable partner. The West could pretty much wall itself off from China economically if it wished to do so. There are many other countries in the developing world, like India, Indonesia, Vietnam and Ethiopia, with cheap and abundant labor, which has been China's main trade advantage over the past few decades. The West could even entice some of the world's developing countries to avoid developing deeper relationships with China by means of pacts like the TPP that were/are intended to thwart China's mercantile ambitions. China may not and probably doesn't need Canada, but it needs the West, and it seems to have horribly misjudged its strengths and weaknesses with its bizarre strategy of applying unwarranted pressure against a Western country it perhaps accurately views as being run by a weak and servile government. The problem for China is that it's teaching not just Canada but the world why it can't and shouldn't be trusted.

I think we missed an excellent chance to buff up Mexico's economy at China's expense by not including language in the trade pact which gave particularly tax breaks to companies which located to Mexico from China. Mexico has lower wages, too. The better the economy and the more jobs available the fewer migrants will be trying to climb Trump's wall. So win, win all around (except for the Chinese).

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1 hour ago, PIK said:

Time for trudeau to do wahrt is right for once. And that is stick with our allies and tell china to take thier government controlled company and shove it. If trudeau allows them to set up shop here, we will have absolutely no friends left in the world. And all back our ambassador from china, because the man is not capable of doing the job. He was sent thier so trudeau could hide him and the chinese know that.

Let the courts decide. The worst thing we could do is allow political interference.  That would make us no better than the Chinese or Trump, who wanted to make Meng a bargaining chip in trade negotiations. 

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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Let the courts decide. The worst thing we could do is allow political interference.  That would make us no better than the Chinese or Trump, who wanted to make Meng a bargaining chip in trade negotiations. 

 

There is nothing special about Canadian courts compared to others...lots of "politics" there too.

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

There is nothing special about Canadian courts compared to others...lots of "politics" there too.

But don’t you see that neither Canada nor the US will be able to defend a court decision that comes across as use of the judiciary to achieve a Mercantilist purpose?

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

But don’t you see that neither Canada nor the US will be able to defend a court decision that comes across as use of the judiciary to achieve a Mercantilist purpose?

 

Why should they....as they have already made  " Mercantilist " decisions.     Nothing special about the courts, which are ultimately just another branch of government.

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Why should they....as they have already made  " Mercantilist " decisions.     Nothing special about the courts, which are ultimately just another branch of government.

The courts are there to interpret law, not make law, unless a new precedent is set, but the optics have to be that the courts decide alone, without interference. 

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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

The courts are there to interpret law, not make law, unless a new precedent is set, but the optics have to be that the courts decide alone, without interference. 

 

And that's all it is...."optics"...while being every bit as influenced and biased by contemporary political and economic conditions.   Justices are appointed in Canada too, aren't they...with far less confirmation challenge.

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

And that's all it is...."optics"...while being every bit as influenced and biased by contemporary political and economic conditions.   Justices are appointed in Canada too, aren't they...with far less confirmation challenge.

In politics perception is reality.  I think perception should be accurate, but if we send the message that the courts are a trade tool, they will be used as such.  

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

In politics perception is reality.  I think perception should be accurate, but if we send the message that the courts are a trade tool, they will be used as such.  

 

They already are....even in ***gasp***...Canada.

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4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

They already are....even in ***gasp***...Canada.

And don’t kid yourself, the Americans use the Canadian brand to get things done.  Sadly for China, Trudeau has/had sincere admiration for China.  If Trudeau’s fortunes suffer, so will China’s in North America, unless Trudeau disavows China, which I could see him doing for political gain. 

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Just now, Zeitgeist said:

And don’t kid yourself, the Americans use the Canadian brand to get things done.  Sadly for China, Trudeau has/had sincere admiration for China.  If Trudeau’s fortunes suffer, so will China’s in North America, unless Trudeau disavows China, which I could see him doing for political gain. 

 

I sure hope so...the Americans are not nearly as naive on such things.   Trudeau made his own bed, and now Canada has to sleep in it.

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Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I sure hope so...the Americans are not nearly as naive on such things.   Trudeau made his own bed, and now Canada has to sleep in it.

No. Canadians are assessing Trudeau’s political currency in relation to Trump, Xi, Putin, Macron, May and others.  In that company he may be at an advantage. 

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

No. Canadians are assessing Trudeau’s political currency in relation to Trump, Xi, Putin, Macron, May and others.  In that company he may be at an advantage. 

 

Even at that Trudeau is faring far worse...in Canada.   He is perceived as a weak leader...domestically...and internationally.    He cannot run with the big dogs.

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Because through their proxies Beijing has said "White Supremacist plot against China!" which seems to invoke the Reb Menace in Washington.

And then they said "Trudeau is a backstabber!" which seems to imply that there was some sort of deal in place to protect her from the aforementioned Reb Menace, and now Trudeau is failing to live up to his end of the Faustian Bargain,

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On 1/18/2019 at 7:25 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Even at that Trudeau is faring far worse...in Canada.   He is perceived as a weak leader...domestically...and internationally.    He cannot run with the big dogs.

There has been much media commentary on the very issue of China's belief that Trudeau and Canada are weak. The vacuous Trudeau, of course, has been so obsequious in courting China that he probably expected to be rewarded and being slapped around by the Chinese must sting at this point. And we have the former (mediocre, in my opinion) immigration minister repackaged as our ambassador to China, who's mainly mimicked Trudeau's approach. Now, reportedly, McCallum is giving Ms. Meng advice on how to navigate the extradition process, which is astonishing. I'm sure the Chinese can afford Canadian lawyers to handle Ms. Meng's legal issues. So, unless McCallum is telegraphing the Trudeau government's preferred outcome here, why is McCallum doing this? And doesn't such interference suggest that the actual "rule of law" isn't a principle the Libs necessarily want to see upheld.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canadas-china-envoy-john-mccallum-says-huawei-executive-has-good/

 

 

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2 hours ago, turningrite said:

.... So, unless McCallum is telegraphing the Trudeau government's preferred outcome here, why is McCallum doing this? And doesn't such interference suggest that the actual "rule of law" isn't a principle the Libs necessarily want to see upheld.

 

Clearly the Trudeau government sees this as the way out of the Weng mess.   There always was far more downside with China than with the Americans, and Trudeau missed his chance for some "creative incompetence" to protect Canadian interests.

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