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Iznogoud

What is Wrong With the United State?

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30 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Now, I would understand the democrats position somewhat if it wasn't for the fact that they've all agree in the past that a border barrier is essential.  But to go from voting on a wall under Obama to "it's a non-starter" under Trump should indicate to anyone with an IQ over 70, that this is nothing but political games.

:rolleyes:

You must have taken this from someone else rage tweet. This wasn't supposed to be a serious response to someone on a Canadian Political forum was it? 

Edited by Boges

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11 minutes ago, Boges said:

:rolleyes:

You must have taken this from someone else rage tweet. This wasn't a serious response to someone on a Canadian Political forumn. 

So, you're saying that these are untruths...or you just don't care?

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8 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

So, you're saying that these are untruths...or you just don't care?

You can't really have it both ways. You can't pretend to care for people willing to risk it all trying to escape gang violence (created by America's appetite for drugs) and then say the only solution is a wall. The Caravan was trying to enter at a border crossing. Trump wants to reduce legal immigration as well as illegal immigration.

If this was the crisis you're portraying, then Trump should have tried to table legislation the day he got into office and not shut down the government the last day he could before the Democrats took control of the House. 

Edited by Boges

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I don't really want it both ways, however just because you don't want a stream of people flooding your borders doesn't mean that you care about them - that's a very juvenile stance.  A country should have borders and if it takes a wall to protect that border, then so be it.  The democrats shouldn't promise sanctuary for anyone willing to show up at the border - that's very irresponsible.

 

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20 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

I don't really want it both ways, however just because you don't want a stream of people flooding your borders doesn't mean that you care about them - that's a very juvenile stance.  A country should have borders and if it takes a wall to protect that border, then so be it.  The democrats shouldn't promise sanctuary for anyone willing to show up at the border - that's very irresponsible.

The US have asylum laws. 

And most illegals don't stream across the border, they fly to an airport and stay indefinitely. 

The wall is a symbol, it's not an actual tool. Much of the border is a river and people's private land. 

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Then why are you showing a chart that indicates 400,000 apprehended at the US-Mexico border?  That is over 1000 people per day, how many people make it over?  And, if the boarder wall/fence really doesn't do anything, then why all the issue over building it? 

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56 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Then why are you showing a chart that indicates 400,000 apprehended at the US-Mexico border?  That is over 1000 people per day, how many people make it over?  And, if the boarder wall/fence really doesn't do anything, then why all the issue over building it? 

A conservative would say it's a waste of taxpayer money. :rolleyes:

The chart indicates that it was 3 times larger an issue in 2000. The US didn't collapse then, it won't collapse now. And if it was a real "emergency" then Trump should have forced congress to table legislation the first chance he got. 

Edited by Boges

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12 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The Civil War was very much about government...slavery was just one of the agenda items.

Trump is the antithesis of what has come before, so which "dysfunction" do the Washington critics prefer ?

The U.S. government actually gets a lot done....all that money is going somewhere.

 

So you are telling me that there would have been a civil war even without slavery?  I like your historical revisionism.  And the thread is not about Trump - I simply used that link as it provided information on why the US government gets so little done.  And as for where all that money is going - have you looked at the percent that goes to defence?  It is hardly surprising that the US now lags behind so many other nations in infrastructure.

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49 minutes ago, Iznogoud said:

So you are telling me that there would have been a civil war even without slavery?  I like your historical revisionism.  And the thread is not about Trump - I simply used that link as it provided information on why the US government gets so little done.  And as for where all that money is going - have you looked at the percent that goes to defence?  It is hardly surprising that the US now lags behind so many other nations in infrastructure.

 

There would have been a civil war for any attempt to secede from the union...for any reason.

Your link very much uses Trump as just the current example in a long history of U.S. government intransigence not only between branches of government, but within Congress as well.   So let me see...which nation has thrived and survived as the world's lone superpower with such a "bad" form of government ....getting "so little done" ?

The U.S. is not lagging behind...other nations are catching up.

As for the military spending, guess which nation's foreign minister begged Trump to continue protecting the "post WW2 order" ? 

 

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What is Wrong With the United States Part 2

As I stated in my original post there would be a series of comments regarding problems in the United States.  The first dealt with the dysfunctional nature of the legislative branch now I wish

As I stated in my original post there would be a series of comments regarding problems in the United States.  The first dealt with the dysfunctional nature of the legislative branch now I wish to talk about the judicial branch and its associated agencies. 

The first problem most non-Americans would notice about the US judicial system is the fact that judges are often openly connected with one or the other of the major parties.  This seems to be pretty much unique in the world.  I doubt that any Canadian could name the political leanings of any member of Canada's Supreme Court.  Not only are the political leanings of most judges known, but many Americans expect them to act on those political leanings which essentially means that most judges are not the impartial arbiters of justice that they are expected to be.  This can lead to situations in which court decisions can strongly influenced by political bias.

A second problem is the election of officials connected with the dispensation of justice.  Once again the United States is unique in actually having most of its lower court judges and many of its prosecutors and other officials elected.  This creates several problems, the most obvious being that it turns officials who are supposed to dispense justice into politicians.  As politicians, judges and other officials like district attorneys and even sheriffs, are responsible to the electorate and are required to run for office just like any other politician.  One result of this is that they become beholden to those who donate most heavily to their election campaigns as well as to the electorate.  Judges and district attorneys usually run on their record or on promises to get tough on crime.  This get-tough policy is usually illustrated by the number of criminals they have arrested, incarcerated, and convicted.  Unfortunately, the concept of justice and appropriate sentencing often goes by the board, leading to lengthy sentences for seemingly minor crimes. 

These lengthy sentences lead to still another problem; that of a large prison population.   Currently the United States has more people behind bars than any other nation in the world.  In fact it has as many people incarcerated as China and Russia combined despite having only a quarter of those countries combined populations.  In addition, the emphasis in many US prisons is on incarceration rather than rehabilitation.  In general the American public seems to support the idea of locking criminals up for as long as possible.  This leads to massive spending on prisons which pulls funds away from more useful spending.

And finally, punishment in a number of states often continues even after a prison sentence is served by denying ex-convicts the right to vote.  In recent years steps have been taken to amend this custom, but several states still cling to it. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

There would have been a civil war for any attempt to secede from the union...for any reason.

Your link very much uses Trump as just the current example in a long history of U.S. government intransigence not only between branches of government, but within Congress as well.   So let me see...which nation has thrived and survived as the world's lone superpower with such a "bad" form of government ....getting "so little done" ?

The U.S. is not lagging behind...other nations are catching up.

As for the military spending, guess which nation's foreign minister begged Trump to continue protecting the "post WW2 order" ? 

 

I think you might actually want to read a history of the US Civil War before commenting further.  There may have been a civil war without the dispute over slavery, but that is a matter for conjecture rather than fact.  Most historians agree that slavery was the burning issue that most divided North and South. 

And you have completely missed the point of the thread.   Nowhere in my post do I claim that the US is not still a great nation.  The post is about what is wrong with the US; not its current international status.  As usual you are straying off topic by tossing in red herrings like the US Civil War and whether or not the US is still a great military power.  Those comments have nothing to do with the thread.  Try to stay on topic. 

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19 minutes ago, Iznogoud said:

I think you might actually want to read a history of the US Civil War before commenting further.  There may have been a civil war without the dispute over slavery, but that is a matter for conjecture rather than fact.  Most historians agree that slavery was the burning issue that most divided North and South. 

And you have completely missed the point of the thread.   Nowhere in my post do I claim that the US is not still a great nation.  The post is about what is wrong with the US; not its current international status.  As usual you are straying off topic by tossing in red herrings like the US Civil War and whether or not the US is still a great military power.  Those comments have nothing to do with the thread.  Try to stay on topic. 

In looking at your interests, i can see that you do write fine and have likely taken some political studies but I'm not convinced that you have a strong background in US history.

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42 minutes ago, Iznogoud said:

I think you might actually want to read a history of the US Civil War before commenting further.  There may have been a civil war without the dispute over slavery, but that is a matter for conjecture rather than fact.  Most historians agree that slavery was the burning issue that most divided North and South.

 

Slavery was only one issue...states rights was the larger issue, that persists to this day.

 

Quote

And you have completely missed the point of the thread.   Nowhere in my post do I claim that the US is not still a great nation.  The post is about what is wrong with the US; not its current international status.  As usual you are straying off topic by tossing in red herrings like the US Civil War and whether or not the US is still a great military power.  Those comments have nothing to do with the thread.  Try to stay on topic. 

 

There is nothing wrong with the US...it is the same as it ever was.  The U.S. has always had domestic and foreign policy problems regardless of federal efficiencies or harmony.   So please tell us what is wrong with the U.S. compared to any other time in its history ?

 

 

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3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Slavery was only one issue...states rights was the larger issue, that persists to this day.

 

 

There is nothing wrong with the US...it is the same as it ever was.  The U.S. has always had domestic and foreign policy problems regardless of federal efficiencies or harmony.   So please tell us what is wrong with the U.S. compared to any other time in its history ?

 

 

Feel free to address the issue.  All nations have things that are wrong with them and the United States is no exception.  I have now outlined a number of factors in that country that are causing it severe problems right now.  The fact that they have had these problems in the past and that they have not been corrected simply proves my point; so thanks for agreeing with me.

Edited by Iznogoud
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1 minute ago, Iznogoud said:

Fell free to address the issue.  All nations have things that are wrong with them and the United States is no exception.  I have now outlined a number of factors in that country that are causing it severe problems right now.  The fact that they have had these problems in the past and that they have not been corrected simply proves my point; so thanks for agreeing with me.

 

No problem.

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3 hours ago, Hal 9000 said:

In looking at your interests, i can see that you do write fine and have likely taken some political studies but I'm not convinced that you have a strong background in US history.

Actually I have a fairly decent all-over background in history.  My personal library once numbered over 700 books dealing with history and archeology and I had several subscriptions to magazines such as Archeology, Military History, Equinox, and National Geographic among others.  Currently my home page opens on a history site so I get a new historical article every day.  I am not claiming that I am an over all expert in all areas of history, but I do know more than most and I have been studying US history and politics for decades.

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2 hours ago, Iznogoud said:

Actually I have a fairly decent all-over background in history.  My personal library once numbered over 700 books dealing with history and archeology and I had several subscriptions to magazines such as Archeology, Military History, Equinox, and National Geographic among others.  Currently my home page opens on a history site so I get a new historical article every day.  I am not claiming that I am an over all expert in all areas of history, but I do know more than most and I have been studying US history and politics for decades.

Judging by your OP, and all the others since, I doubt it!

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On 1/9/2019 at 7:24 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then obviously they don't have the votes to override....again, working as designed...long before Trump.

Working as designed? Federalist 68....Hamilton warned if you allow the masses to elect the president instead of the EC they could be subject to foreign influence.

Hows that for a premonition?

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6 hours ago, Jimwd said:

Working as designed? Federalist 68....Hamilton warned if you allow the masses to elect the president instead of the EC they could be subject to foreign influence.

 

"This is what democracy looks like !!! "

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

"This is what democracy looks like !!! "

Nope not according to the way framers designed it, that’s why you have a pathological  lying ,world embarrassment as your president 

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19 minutes ago, Jimwd said:

Nope not according to the way framers designed it, that’s why you have a pathological  lying ,world embarrassment as your president 

 

Seems to bother you more than I.    Trump still matters a lot more than Justin Trudeau.

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10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Seems to bother you more than I.    Trump still matters a lot more than Justin Trudeau.

The day you put the nuclear codes in the hands of a russian compromised traitor is the day it became everyone’s business.

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Just now, Jimwd said:

The day you put the nuclear codes in the hands of a russian compromised traitor is the day it became everyone’s business.

 

Too bad....get your own "nuclear codes".    Meantime...stay afraid of the Russians, Chinese, and the Americans with all their "problems" too.

No choice really.

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To answer the topic's question, not too much is actually wrong if people can get by their dislike of Trump.......here's an interesting column by Conrad Black. People might not agree with everything but the general intent of his writing is pretty sound. Certainly an interesting read.....

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/conrad-black-americas-resurgence-is-reshaping-the-world

Edited by Centerpiece
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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Too bad....get your own "nuclear codes".    Meantime...stay afraid of the Russians, Chinese, and the Americans with all their "problems" too.

No choice really.

whataboutism ? Chuckle... a thinker 

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