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Canada the next venezuela.

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Like, don't get greedy, folks.  We are pretty much up a 1000% since the beginning of this cycle.

No need to wait until the last moment, a 1000% return on a $100,000.00, is $1,000,000.00

You can't spend it when you're dead.

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4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

your uncritical worship of Queen Elizabeth.

Dieu et mon droit is the only legal claim to these lands, God save the Queen is no crime where I come from.

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21 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

In both cases the bubble  simply shifted from fully and semi, to condos.

But when people can no longer afford condos where will it shift. Perhaps to the rental market, but that's a very finite resource in places like Toronto and Vancouver. As we're seeing in Toronto, the competition for resources has shifted down to the shelter system and space on outdoor heating grates. This is where things will ultimately end up given government policies that have juiced housing prices and rents. Now, governments have no idea how to solve an enormous problem they've helped to create.

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13 minutes ago, turningrite said:

But when people can no longer afford condos where will it shift. Perhaps to the rental market, but that's a very finite resource in places like Toronto and Vancouver. As we're seeing in Toronto, the competition for resources has shifted down to the shelter system and space on outdoor heating grates. This is where things will ultimately end up given government policies that have juiced housing prices and rents. Now, governments have no idea how to solve an enormous problem they've helped to create.

Yes but it’s a boon to cities like Hamilton, Brantford and St. Catherines that could use infusions of development.  

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7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes but it’s a boon to cities like Hamilton, Brantford and St. Catherines that could use infusions of development.  

I'm not sure how the residents of such places will react to becoming echo communities that will face the downside of Toronto's crisis of rising living costs and stagnant wages that increasingly make ordinary life unaffordable. If that's progress, I suspect many will want to avoid it, and for good reason. Will these communities beyond the metropole form the backbone of a Canadian 'yellow vests' movement, as has happened in the countryside outside of Paris France?

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1 hour ago, turningrite said:

But when people can no longer afford condos where will it shift. Perhaps to the rental market, but that's a very finite resource in places like Toronto and Vancouver. As we're seeing in Toronto, the competition for resources has shifted down to the shelter system and space on outdoor heating grates. This is where things will ultimately end up given government policies that have juiced housing prices and rents. Now, governments have no idea how to solve an enormous problem they've helped to create.

The market will correct. The cure for higher prices is lower prices. The market is already slowing down. Condo sales in Toronto are the lowest they've been in 20 years and that's with bottom basement interest rates. Even a modest increase in interest rates will pop this bubble.

The main thing is, find the property where you could happily live the rest of your life if you had to, so you won't have to sell into the correction.

All your problems will ultimately be solved by your own death, thus you're not dealing with an infinite market horizon here.

There are no losses but what are realized, if you're not selling, the price of your house is largely irrelevant.

Edited by Dougie93

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1 hour ago, turningrite said:

I'm not sure how the residents of such places will react to becoming echo communities that will face the downside of Toronto's crisis of rising living costs and stagnant wages that increasingly make ordinary life unaffordable. If that's progress, I suspect many will want to avoid it, and for good reason. Will these communities beyond the metropole form the backbone of a Canadian 'yellow vests' movement, as has happened in the countryside outside of Paris France?

The demand for housing continues and developers can't keep up with the pace.  In fact the backlog of appeals to the OMB and its replacement is preventing shovels from getting in the ground.  Vacancy rates are low, so home prices of all types will remain high in the Greater Toronto Area, though there may be temporary plateaus or minor drops.  In the end, the growth of this city-region may be what saves cities like Oshawa, which is thankfully close enough to replace some of the lost land and tax base after the coming GM plant closure with housing development.  Basically housing is saving stagnant rustbelt cities in the region.  The bigger concern is employment: Can we sustain the good standard of living we've come to expect with decent paying jobs?  Though wage growth has been slow in recent decades, we had the boost of cheaper goods from offshore, mainly China, combined with better outcomes in health, education, and even pollution in Southern Ontario, largely through technological gains and progressive public policy. 

I can see a lot of people working in low paying service jobs or token jobs that are more like voluntary internships backstopped by minimum wage.  You can see governments preparing for a more automated future that no amount of protectionism on trade is going to reverse.  At this point all we can do is educate the hell out of people and redistribute as much of the extreme wealth from the top that we can get away with.  Also, we need smart public policy.  In the end though, if we're acting alone and don't have good international rules or at least decent ones within our trading block (USMCA, CETA, etc.), we're swimming upstream.

Edited by Zeitgeist

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Smart public policy is an oxymoron. 

Public policy may be a necessity, but due to the vagaries of democracy, it's never going to be smart, so the less of that you do, the better.

The government is a blunt instrument, like a sledgehammer or a shotgun. 

People who are want to do rocket surgery by government, are ever to be disappointed and discredited.

When you are enthralled by government and so relying on it to solve your problems, that's how you end up on the aforementioned heating grates in the street.

From there you will very likely end up in jail, where you will finally see the true face of your Janus government.

Edited by Dougie93

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On 2/3/2019 at 12:05 PM, Zeitgeist said:

The demand for housing continues and developers can't keep up with the pace.  In fact the backlog of appeals to the OMB and its replacement is preventing shovels from getting in the ground.  Vacancy rates are low, so home prices of all types will remain high in the Greater Toronto Area, though there may be temporary plateaus or minor drops.  In the end, the growth of this city-region may be what saves cities like Oshawa, which is thankfully close enough to replace some of the lost land and tax base after the coming GM plant closure with housing development.  Basically housing is saving stagnant rustbelt cities in the region.  The bigger concern is employment: Can we sustain the good standard of living we've come to expect with decent paying jobs?  Though wage growth has been slow in recent decades, we had the boost of cheaper goods from offshore, mainly China, combined with better outcomes in health, education, and even pollution in Southern Ontario, largely through technological gains and progressive public policy. 

 

You're doing a lot of 'blue-skying' there. Your optimism doesn't match realities on the ground. Residents of the Toronto and Vancouver regions, who've faced the brunt of the artificial immigration "boom" and have in many cases faced hardship as a result are according to polling the unhappiest in the country. There will, eventually, be a backlash. There has to be. No previously prosperous society has been forced to undergo such massive change without experiencing a backlash.

Can we maintain our standard of living? No. It's been declining in relative terms for three decades or more and will likely continue to do so. And cheaper gadgets can't compensate for the outrageous increases in housing costs. Further, we get only a tiny proportion of the benefit of cheaply produced foreign goods. Even after accounting for the currency differential, we in Canada pay 25 to 40 percent more for these same "cheap" goods than is paid by U.S. consumers.

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-why-are-vancouver-and-toronto-so-unhappy

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On 2/3/2019 at 11:28 AM, Dougie93 said:

1.) The market will correct. The cure for higher prices is lower prices.

2.) All your problems will ultimately be solved by your own death, thus you're not dealing with an infinite market horizon here.

1.) LOL

2.) That's why my solution is medically assisted suicide. I think we need to make it much more available, covering abject destitution and depression. When people can't cope with the horrific conditions forced on them by idiotic government policies, they should have a humane way out. Maybe the government can set up suicide clinics? It' would be better than getting run over or freezing to death when trying to sleep on a heating grate in downtown Toronto, right? After all, that's the current state of the government's approach to housing policy.

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My standard of living is exponentially better than 30 years ago, 30 years ago was 1989, the unemployment rate was 8%, the inflation rate was 6%, the mortgage rate was 18%, and the government was running a $75 billion deficit in 2019 dollars,  resulting in a brutal recession when the bill came due.

I was in the army so I wasn't in need of buying a property and raising a family, but if I had quit the army and tried to, that wouldn't have been fun and I wouldn't having been living the comfortable lifestyle I am now.

Edited by Dougie93

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7 minutes ago, turningrite said:

1.) LOL

2.) That's why my solution is medically assisted suicide. I think we need to make it much more available, covering abject destitution and depression. When people can't cope with the horrific conditions forced on them by idiotic government policies, they should have a humane way out. Maybe the government can set up suicide clinics? It' would be better than getting run over or freezing to death when trying to sleep on a heating grate in downtown Toronto, right? After all, that's the current state of the government's approach to housing policy.

No need for medical assistance, when the time comes, die with your boots on, bullet to the head.

Tho I am a Rock n' Roller, and so here for a good time not a long time, I don't see any reason to punch out now, life is pretty damn sweet right now actually, no need to rush things to the grave, every day is a gift, until its not, but we're hardly living in Stalingrad here.

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Bear in mind, you are living immersed in a liberal media if it bleeds it leads hysteria bubble, don't let it skew your perspective, things are better than they have ever been, the nostalgia for a world that never was is a pathology not an analysis.

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6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Tho I am a Rock n' Roller, and so here for a good time not a long time, I don't see any reason to punch out now, life is pretty damn sweet right now actually, no need to rush things to the grave, every day is a gift, until its not, but we're hardly living in Stalingrad here.

You're lucky. For many others, including myself, not so much. Many of us live with chronic conditions, in my case a neurodegenerative disease that's likely genetic in origin, and struggle with imaging how the future will unfold. For me, enduring life in Toronto and considering the bleak future that holds often seems oppressive. 

Edited by turningrite

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7 minutes ago, turningrite said:

You're lucky. For many others, including myself, not so much. Many of us live with chronic conditions, in my case a neurodegenerative disease that's likely genetic in origin, and struggle with imaging how the future will unfold. For me, enduring life in Toronto and considering the bleak future that holds often seems oppressive. 

That is unfortunate, I recognize and affirm the divine providence of being born healthy and free in the House of Windsor, kings of the world, defended by the Kings of Virginia.

Toronto is a place to make your fortune, if its not working for you, decamp to the red and green maples, it's quite lovely here in Wellington County, literally, Gods country.

Edited by Dougie93

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8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

That is unfortunate, I recognize and affirm the divine providence of being born healthy and free in the House of Windsor, kings of the world, defended by the Kings of Virginia.

Toronto is a place to make your fortune, if its not working for you, decamp to the red and green maples, it's quite lovely here in Wellington County, literally, Gods country.

With serious medical disabilities, I have to live where it's feasible to do so. I'm no longer permitted to drive so can't live in a rural area. I have to be near medical specialists so have to live in a city with a med school and teaching hospital(s). And I have difficulty even using public transit due to both significant mobility and eyesight impairments. That pretty much confines me to living within a relatively short distance of medical facilities. I had a friend with significant disabilities who decided he simply couldn't afford to live in Toronto anymore and a few years ago moved to a much smaller city. He could never put a medical team in place again and was dead in less than two years. In the opinion of his friends, he died prematurely essentially due to lack of access to adequate care. If you ever have to live with a serious disability in this province/country without major financial resources you quickly realize how gaping the holes in our support systems really are. I now detest both Canada and Ontario. Once I'm gone, I don't care if this place slides into complete penury. It'll serve it right.

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1 minute ago, turningrite said:

With serious medical disabilities, I have to live where it's feasible to do so. I'm no longer permitted to drive so can't live in a rural area. I have to be near medical specialists so have to live in a city with a med school and teaching hospital(s). And I have difficulty even using public transit due to both significant mobility and eyesight impairments. That pretty much confines me to living within a relatively short distance of medical facilities. I had a friend with significant disabilities who decided he simply couldn't afford to live in Toronto anymore and a few years ago moved to a much smaller city. He could never put a medical team in place again and was dead in less than two years. In the opinion of his friends, he died prematurely essentially due to lack of access to adequate care. If you ever have to live with a serious disability in this province/country without major financial resources you quickly realize how gaping the holes in our support systems really are. I now detest both Canada and Ontario. Once I'm gone, I don't care if this place slides into complete penury. It'll serve it right.

My oath to Her Majesty was unto death as necessary, I'll go over the top when the whistle blows, but in the meantime, Netflix n' chill.

I do most of my own medical care, which mostly consists of PT,  but as I smoke tobacco and drink whiskey, I'm not banking on OHIP to save me.

 

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10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

My oath to Her Majesty was unto death as necessary, I'll go over the top when the whistle blows, but in the meantime, Netflix n' chill.

I do most of my own medical care, which mostly consists of PT,  but as I smoke tobacco and drink whiskey, I'm not banking on OHIP to save me.

 

I've never had to utter an oath to her majesty. I'm not sure why it would do anybody any good anyway as the courts have determined that her role is merely symbolic rather than substantive. As for our medical system and other purported supports for the sick and disabled, if/when people come to realize how inadequate these really are, many of them too will feel, as I do, angry and disenfranchised at the extent of the betrayal. There is no "universal" health care system in this country - or at least in Ontario. So, go ahead and smoke, drink and party as you wish because otherwise you'll feel cheated tomorrow. I don't smoke and seldom drink, so if those things won't put me in a grave I hope I get to make the choice as to when and how I will go. I sure won't sleep in a back alley in -30C cold. I'll pull the plug well before that happens. 

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Just now, turningrite said:

I've never had to utter an oath to her majesty. I'm not sure why it would do anybody any good anyway as the courts have determined that her role is merely symbolic rather than substantive. As for our medical system and other purported supports for the sick and disabled, if/when people come to realize how inadequate these really are, many of them too will feel, as I do, angry and disenfranchised at the extent of the betrayal. There is no "universal" health care system in this country - or at least in Ontario. So, go ahead and smoke, drink and party as you wish because otherwise you'll feel cheated tomorrow. I don't smoke and seldom drink, so if those things won't put me in a grave I hope I get to make the choice as to when and how I will go. I sure won't sleep in a back alley in -30C cold. I'll pull the plug well before that happens. 

I've already slept many a night in -30C and even colder, for Her Majesty and no other.  Down filled sleeping bag, Gore-Tex bivvy bag, Thermorest mat, no problemo.

I do not rely on Canadian universal healthcare.  If I so desire, I could go to the Americans for relatively minor issues, to the Swiss for mortal peril.  I'll make the call when the time comes, depends on the prognosis, if its Kobayashi Maru I'll probably not blow the dough on it and rather just leave it to my wife, as she takes such good care of me, and will very likely outlive me by decades.

I don't feel cheated in the slightest.  If I die today, it will already have been a life well lived, one of the best lived in the history of the world in fact, a King of Virginia, amongst the red and green maples, prosperous, happy,  and free.

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