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China corrupting Chinese immigrants in Canada

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10 minutes ago, Rue said:

Our laws in Canada say if you ask to deport someone for a crime that does not exist in Canada not withstanding any extradition treaty we have with you, we will not extradite. In fact we have a protection clause that allows people to flee their countries and request our state protection as a refugee if the crime they commit in their country is not  crime in Canada or the sentence in their country is more severe, i.e., capital punishment, whippings, much longer sentences in jail.

 

The Americans can appeal any decision not to comply with their extradition request and thus drag this out for years.

Your second point about state protection brought to mind something I hadn't thought about in relation to this case. Maybe Meng could file a refugee application, claiming all legal rights applicable under Canadian law and theoretical rights accorded under the recently signed Global Compact for Migration. Wouldn't that be hysterical!

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1 hour ago, turningrite said:

The Americans can appeal any decision not to comply with their extradition request and thus drag this out for years.

I figure that if it looks like she might actually be extradited she will simply disappear, get aboard a private jet at a little-used airport, and head back to China.

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21 hours ago, Argus said:

I figure that if it looks like she might actually be extradited she will simply disappear, get aboard a private jet at a little-used airport, and head back to China.

I doubt Beijing would tolerate that since it wants to save face by having Canada formally release her.

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4 hours ago, Machjo said:

I doubt Beijing would tolerate that since it wants to save face by having Canada formally release her.

Beijing would celebrate it as a victory over the running dog, capitalist pigs. They would even provide the plane and fake passport.

Edited by Argus

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9 minutes ago, Argus said:

Beijing would celebrate it as a victory over the running dog, capitalist pigs. They would even provide the plane and fake passport.

Maybe they'd even hang on to their hostages and drag it out until Conservatives are in power.  It'll be just as gross watching them grovel while standing proud too.

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On 1/30/2019 at 5:19 PM, Argus said:

Beijing would celebrate it as a victory over the running dog, capitalist pigs. They would even provide the plane and fake passport.

The Chinese have massively miscalculated the impact of their approach to this issue in Canada. As illustrated in a G&M opinion piece earlier this week (linked below), they've long had our political, economic and academic elites in their pocket but obviously failed to understand that the general population remains utterly unconvinced of the benefits of the Canadian-Chinese relationship. This prudent skepticism on the part of the Canadian majority is now likely far more entrenched and it could take a decade or more to repair the damage China has done. China can tell its population what to think and believe. That's not as easily done in many other places. The Chinese shouldn't have confused the servile posturing of our feckless politicians and self-serving business class with the attitudes of Canadians in general.

In reality, we could get by without China. But China needs the rest of the world to achieve the objectives of the "basic dictatorship" the fawning Trudeau so admires. Maybe it's time to cool our jets where China is concerned before we're so entangled in its agenda that we no longer have any viable choice but to follow Beijing's commands. Whether or not Meng returns to China is at this point largely immaterial. The relevant lesson has been learned, well, by ordinary Canadians at least. Has China's leadership learned it? And have our elites? Hmmm....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-must-reassess-its-approach-to-china-if-not-we-may-get/

Edited by turningrite
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One way to attack a country is to create a fifth column in that country. As the famous Chinese warlord Sun Tzu said thousands of years ago that the cleverest form of warfare is that when your enemy doesnt realise that he is at war with you. 

Still valid today. 

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1 hour ago, -TSS- said:

One way to attack a country is to create a fifth column in that country. As the famous Chinese warlord Sun Tzu said thousands of years ago that the cleverest form of warfare is that when your enemy doesnt realise that he is at war with you. 

Still valid today. 

Yeah, and the fifth column is and always has been the Liberal Party of Canada inserting itself between the subjects and their Crown as pretenders to the throne.

Reaching out to China is just the fifth column trying to figure out a new revenue stream to fund its corruption and make up the losses from associated centrally planned incompetence.

Edited by Dougie93

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20 hours ago, -TSS- said:

One way to attack a country is to create a fifth column in that country. As the famous Chinese warlord Sun Tzu said thousands of years ago that the cleverest form of warfare is that when your enemy doesnt realise that he is at war with you. 

Still valid today. 

That's an astute observation. Too bad China's modern governing dynasty is so apparently tin-eared in its approach to the West because otherwise Sun Tzu's strategy would appear to have been working very well indeed. China's truculent overreaction in the Meng affair serves as a pretty clear warning to the world that there's a clear downside to becoming too entwined in China's agenda.

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On 2/2/2019 at 11:12 AM, -TSS- said:

One way to attack a country is to create a fifth column in that country. As the famous Chinese warlord Sun Tzu said thousands of years ago that the cleverest form of warfare is that when your enemy doesnt realise that he is at war with you. 

Still valid today. 

So its not just China's dictators and oligarchs - now you people are fearful of my grandkids?

That's just plain retarded.

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1 hour ago, eyeball said:

So its not just China's dictators and oligarchs - now you people are fearful of my grandkids?

That's just plain retarded.

What does this apparently racialist statement mean, exactly? 'TSS' raised an entirely reasonable observation in reference to Chinese philosophy and history.

Edited by turningrite

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33 minutes ago, turningrite said:

What does this apparently racialist statement mean, exactly? 'TSS' raised an entirely reasonable observation in reference to Chinese philosophy and history.

It means you people are taking a squabble over wealth and control between powerful governments up in la la land and twisting it into a matter of race down here on the ground where normal human beings live.  TSS simply stirred up a pile of pointless shit.

You people just can't wait to clear the decks by boiling everything down to race. 

Edited by eyeball

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7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It means you people are taking a squabble over wealth and control between powerful governments up in la la land and twisting it into a matter of race down here on the ground where normal people live.  TSS simply stirred up a pile of pointless shit.  

I believe Sun Tzu is a highly regarded historical figure in China, whose writings inspired even Mao and the Chinese Communists. I'm not sure why you object to the reference by 'TSS' as he merely appears to have been making a point, and rather cleverly so in my view. Warfare can take many forms, only one of which is direct armed conflict. Otherwise, and perhaps more effectively, countries and societies can be insidiously subjugated. I doubt that Sun Tzu himself would disagree with this point.

Edited by turningrite

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8 minutes ago, turningrite said:

I'm not sure why you object to the reference by 'TSS'  

He pretty much said every Chinese person in Canada is an enemy invader and you don't seem to disagree.

Edited by eyeball

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3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

He pretty much said every Chinese person in Canada is an enemy invader and you don't seem to disagree.

I don't think he said that at all. For one thing, he's in Finland and not in Canada. I think he's simply pointing out that China's increasing economic influence may play a far more significant role in expanding its power (in Canada and in the West in general) than would an actual military strategy. As has been pointed out during the Meng affair, Canadians in general are far warier of China's "soft" (economic) power than are our economic and political elites. Of course, Canadians have long understood the impacts on our sovereignty of American economic or soft power. The U.S., of course, is the devil we know and to some extent understand. China is another case altogether.

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1 minute ago, turningrite said:

I don't think he said that at all. For one thing, he's in Finland and not in Canada. I think he's simply pointing out that China's increasing economic influence may play a far more significant role in expanding its power (in Canada and in the West in general) than would an actual military strategy.

No. I think he was pointing out that the majority of the Chinese immigrants are not here for any reason other than economic. They don't hate or fear China, and still consider themselves Chinese. The Chinese government, meanwhile, has very openly moved to recruit them in a kind of ethno-nationalistic view of what being Chinese means. It it spending a great deal of money over here influencing Chinese-Canadian businessmen who have operations (and family) in both countries, Chinese community associations, and Chinese media in Canada, most of which, according to that article, they now control through intermediaries. What Chinese-Canadians are reading in their Mandarin language media is only what China approves of.

Thus we see those protestors coming out in favour of the Confucius institute being partnered with the Toronto School Board and yelling that those Chinese Canadians who opposed it are 'traitors'.  

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22 minutes ago, Argus said:

No. I think he was pointing out that the majority of the Chinese immigrants are not here for any reason other than economic. They don't hate or fear China, and still consider themselves Chinese. The Chinese government, meanwhile, has very openly moved to recruit them in a kind of ethno-nationalistic view of what being Chinese means. It it spending a great deal of money over here influencing Chinese-Canadian businessmen who have operations (and family) in both countries, Chinese community associations, and Chinese media in Canada, most of which, according to that article, they now control through intermediaries. What Chinese-Canadians are reading in their Mandarin language media is only what China approves of.

Thus we see those protestors coming out in favour of the Confucius institute being partnered with the Toronto School Board and yelling that those Chinese Canadians who opposed it are 'traitors'.  

As I pointed out to 'eyeball', 'TSS' is not in Canada. I understand your points, and the broader point made in this post, but I don't think that 'TSS' is actually raising such specific arguments. Rather, it seems to me that he's referencing the idea of what is sometimes called "soft" power. Perhaps he can comment on his intent. As for the broader range of arguments you raise, there are clearly issues relating to Chinese-government influence over Chinese cultural and media outlets in this country. I know and have previously worked with Chinese immigrants and can't say I recall any ever advocating on behalf of the interests of the Chinese government. Most seemed to be here for their kids' futures more than anything else. I'm less concerned, then, about this kind of influence than I am about economic influence. As we know due to our history with American economic influence and the history of our so-called 'branch-plant' economy (which might more accurately now be described as a 'sub-market' economy), 'he who pays the piper calls the tune'.

Edited by turningrite

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18 minutes ago, turningrite said:

I don't think he said that at all. 

In a thread where he used terms like attacking and warfare and where others talk about arresting and interning previous "fifth columns" of immigrants to Canada are discussed calmly without any moderating comment?  What he said is paranoid at best.  I think your nonchalance to that belies a certain obliviousness....at best.

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12 minutes ago, turningrite said:

As I pointed out to 'eyeball', 'TSS' is not in Canada.

That's right TSS is in Finland and often posts about immigrants to his country in a similarly paranoid and extreme vein.   

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

No. I think he was pointing out that the majority of the Chinese immigrants are not here for any reason other than economic. They don't hate or fear China, and still consider themselves Chinese.

Would someone please inform this paranoid racist my grand-kids other grandparents fled China because they feared its government and hated the thought of raising a family there.

But who knows, I suppose they could be secretly teaching our grand-kids kung-fu and indoctrinating them to turn on us at some point...kinda like Muslims with swords, Sikhs with Kirpans and the Irish with their shillelaghs ...everyone's just waiting for the signal to rise up and subjugate us. 

Edited by eyeball

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2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

In a thread where he used terms like attacking and warfare and where others talk about arresting and interning previous "fifth columns" of immigrants to Canada are discussed calmly without any moderating comment?  What he said is paranoid at best.  I think your nonchalance to that belies a certain obliviousness....at best.

I scanned this topic and can't find any such references from 'TSS' so I'm not sure why you're alarmed by his reference to Sun Tzu. Yes, the broader issue of "fifth columns" is raised under this topic. I believe that some activities of the Chinese government in Canada are problematic. The role of Confucius Institutes, for instance, is controversial in both the U.S. and Canada. Personally, I'm not aware of the extent to which these activities do or don't influence Chinese immigrants or their offspring living in Canada or elsewhere. But the fact that China's government is participating in or funding such things is at least somewhat problematic, don't you think? It's my understanding that China itself is highly cautious and some would even argue paranoid about the activities of foreign citizens and governments in China. It's a dictatorship, after all, and dictatorships tend to be paranoid. I think the concerns expressed about "fifth columns" while perhaps in some contexts alarmist still more-or-less amount to fair comment. It's a free country, for now at least.

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3 minutes ago, turningrite said:

I scanned this topic and can't find any such references from 'TSS' 

 

On 2/2/2019 at 11:12 AM, -TSS- said:

One way to attack a country is to create a fifth column in that country. As the famous Chinese warlord Sun Tzu said thousands of years ago that the cleverest form of warfare is that when your enemy doesnt realise that he is at war with you. 

Still valid today. 

 I almost forgot to mention his reference to enemy.

Edited by eyeball

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1 minute ago, turningrite said:

You know nothing about me so before you start flinging defamatory denunciations perhaps you might think about what you're saying. Personally, based on your comments, I think you're a racial nationalist or tribalist.

No, I've made it perfectly clear that I'm an Earthling and this thread underscores why.

You're just some kind of un-evolved sub-Earthling as near as I can tell.

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3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No, I've made it perfectly clear that I'm an Earthling and this thread underscores why.

You're just some kind of un-evolved sub-Earthling as near as I can tell.

Oh, an earthling? Other readers on here can interpret that in whatever fashion they like. By the way, I'm reporting your most recent posts as I find them utterly defamatory and inappropriate to this discussion. Perhaps you might be able to contribute more if you took the time to read and think a little more? Calling people racists simply because they say things you don't like is both anti-intellectual and immature.

Edited by turningrite

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3 minutes ago, turningrite said:

By the way, I'm reporting your most recent posts as I find them utterly defamatory and inappropriate to this discussion. 

You let me know how that works out for you.

Quote

 

Calling people racists simply because they say things you don't like is both anti-intellectual and immature.

 

I'm calling them that because it's true. And for the record it was paranoid racists. 

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