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Trudeau lying about SNC

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8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I get it that you personally feel like Trudeau is the be-all end-all, but it might be time to step back and take another look at Mr Sunny Ways.

Have you ever heard that saying: "If you put a frog in hot water it will jump out but if you put it in cold water you can keep turning up the heat and the frog will stay there 'til it dies"? Well, if you just suddenly learned all there is to know about Trudeau up to this point would he still have your respect? At some point you need to place more value on your own loyalty, and just step away from a guy who has turned out to be a fraudster.

JWR's issues are hers alone, but they're nowhere near as bad as Trudeau's. And the truth from her is as good as anyone's truth if she has the evidence to back her up, which apparently she does.

Honestly, what makes her recordings unethical? She felt like she was being pressured to do the wrong thing, by people who had absolutely no right to pressure her.

 

At this point do you feel like Trudeau put pressure on JWR to give SNC a DPA? Do you feel like it was Trudeau's place to do so? Why did his story change so much? Why is he so afraid to get to the bottom of this? Why would he create a law JUST TO GET A COMPANY LIKE SNC ACCESS TO GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WHEN THEY HAVE SO MANY SERIOUS CRIMINAL ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THEM in the first place?

 

Trudeau pretends to care about 9,000 jobs (that was another lie of his) at SNC in Montreal, but he literally doesn't give a crap about 100,000 jobs in Alberta. And he's your guy? That's where your loyalties lie? This is your hill to die on? I hope that you come to your senses soon bruh because we need to get this guy out of power. This is the most critical vote in the history of our country, by far.

 

 

 

 

 

If he doesn't care about jobs in Alta. why is he pushing for the Trans Mountain pipeline to be built.?

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3 minutes ago, Owly said:

If he doesn't care about jobs in Alta. why is he pushing for the Trans Mountain pipeline to be built.?

Pushing? He's going around saying that the oil sands will be phased out. He's scaring away investment like a shark swimming through a coral reef. There's not a soul in Alberta who thinks Trudeau has their back. 

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6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Pushing? He's going around saying that the oil sands will be phased out. He's scaring away investment like a shark swimming through a coral reef. There's not a soul in Alberta who thinks Trudeau has their back. 

Attempt to read this. It's not complicated.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau reaffirmed his support for the Trans Mountain expansion project Friday vowing to fight on after the Federal Court of Appeal handed his government a ruling that threatens to derail the pipeline entirely.

Speaking to reporters in Oshawa, Ont., Trudeau said the government is committed to building the pipeline the "right way" to satisfy the court's demands.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-trans-mountain-trudeau-1.4806361

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18 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

SNC lobbied the government, the DPA law was created. Can you name another reason why it was created then egghead?

Sry, my bad, you may be right. my memory fails me this time

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7 minutes ago, egghead said:

Sry, my bad, you may be right. my memory fails me this time

I don't think your memory failed you. I am awaiting wcm to show us a cite which proves his comments about snc having influenced the adoption of the dpa law in Canada.

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2 hours ago, Owly said:

Attempt to read this. It's not complicated.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau reaffirmed his support for the Trans Mountain expansion project Friday vowing to fight on after the Federal Court of Appeal handed his government a ruling that threatens to derail the pipeline entirely.

Speaking to reporters in Oshawa, Ont., Trudeau said the government is committed to building the pipeline the "right way" to satisfy the court's demands.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-trans-mountain-trudeau-1.4806361

Trudeau is fighting for the Trans Mountain Pipeline like Bill Clinton is fighting to stay married to Hillary. 

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2 hours ago, Owly said:

I don't think your memory failed you. I am awaiting wcm to show us a cite which proves his comments about snc having influenced the adoption of the dpa law in Canada.

Why would you just sit there and wait instead of doing a 1 second google if you don't know the answer? How is it even possible that you don't already know the answer? 

I know you won't answer that so I'll answer for you........

You don't want to acknowledge that it's true, so if the information isn't plunked down right there in front of you you'll just hope that it never surfaces. Now that the link is there you'll just ignore it and hope that everyone forgets about it. 

You're in full-blown denial.

 

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6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Why would you just sit there and wait instead of doing a 1 second google if you don't know the answer? How is it even possible that you don't already know the answer? 

I know you won't answer that so I'll answer for you........

You don't want to acknowledge that it's true, so if the information isn't plunked down right there in front of you you'll just hope that it never surfaces. Now that the link is there you'll just ignore it and hope that everyone forgets about it. 

You're in full-blown denial.

 

Whatever they may have spent seems to have been a waste.

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1 minute ago, Owly said:

Whatever they may have spent seems to have been a waste.

Trudeau was at their beck and call. He still is. This is the hill for his political career to die on.

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7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Trudeau was at their beck and call. He still is. This is the hill for his political career to die on.

Scheer and co will do their best to keep it in the news as long as they can, but it will fade over the summer. Just watch.

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6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Trudeau was at their beck and call. He still is. This is the hill for his political career to die on.

With any luck he'll take the whole damn party with him...one more party I'd like to see snuffed after that, but forever would probably be too much to hope for.

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1 minute ago, Owly said:

Scheer and co will do their best to keep it in the news as long as they can, but it will fade over the summer. Just watch.

I suspect there'll be a few others keen on keeping the heat up. I sure hope so at least.

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1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I suspect there'll be a few others keen on keeping the heat up. I sure hope so at least.

There could still be things we don't know about the whole issue yet.

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4 minutes ago, Owly said:

There could still be things we don't know about the whole issue yet.

The fact Liberals made DPA's legal in the first place is all anyone needs to know.

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10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Okay, I won’t even get into your comments on Canada’s business affairs in Libya.  Britain, France, the US and many other western countries, like Canada, have had business interests in Libya since 2004.  Canada is a relatively small player there.  Bribery is unfortunately part of the business culture in Libya.  I can almost guarantee that it’s mainly because of Canada’s high reporting and accountability standards that we’re even hearing about bribery, but forget all of that.  Facts on the ground are that some executives in SNC, now long gone from the company, used bribery to win business contracts.  The purpose of the DPA is to limit the liability and penalties to those who committed the crimes, rather than crippling a company that employs tens of thousands of workers.  You’re welcome to argue that SNC wouldn’t be crippled, jobs won’t be lost, head offices won’t be moved out of Canada.  That’s fine and I’m not interested in that conversation.  

I’m merely asserting that the people who elected Trudeau on the basis of progressive policy in terms of boosting female representation and affirmative action, increased support for Indigenous affairs, and even increased transparency and accountability largely got what they wanted to the extent that it’s crippling the government.  That’s one of the reasons I didn’t vote for the Liberals and won’t in the next election.  We’re overtaxed enough in this country and we can’t even get our resources to market because the over-regulated National Energy Board thinks it’s fair for a Hereditary Chief grandmother to cause a public relations nightmare for resource development.  The vast majority of the population is becoming enslaved  by radical special interests, eco warriors and identity politics activists.  Who is paying the bill?  Who will continue to pay the bill when the jobs disappear?

Trudeau has tried to be all things to all people.  I was skeptical of him and saw the lynch mobs coming for him on both the left and the right.  Again I ask the question, who can successfully represent the middle anymore?  The Liberals used to do this quite well.  We know the Conservatives will ignore climate change and trim government spending in exchange for tax cuts.  We know the NDP will overspend on programs, increase the debt, and alienate business.  In this populist environment the middle has become untenable, which has been the case in the US for some time.  People have become more tribal, supporting their left or right wing team at the expense of the other side.  I do wonder if this is the real threat to democracy.  It’s also what Russian and even Chinese political interference have been trying to achieve.  

This SNC scandal is more concerning because of what it illustrates about mutinous forces in Trudeau’s government than it is about Trudeau’s inappropriate pressure on the AG.  I can tell that many of the posters on here slamming Trudeau over SNC are really just Conservative supporters who found another reason to dump on Trudeau.  That’s fine, but the Conservatives should take the SNC affair as a cautionary tale.  Be careful about the forces you invite into government in the name of inclusivity.  Be careful about ceding too much authority in the name of consultation.  Be careful about inviting too much media and public attention in the name of openness and accountability.  Trudeau’s attempt to do things “differently” have backfired big time.  His dad was a bit of a commie, but Trudeau Senior let everyone know who was boss. He was feared and respected, even if he didn’t always get it right on policy.  He garnered respect and boosted Canada’s brand.  

It’s not too late for JT.  He has charisma, energy, and I’ll even grant him, some vision, but if he wants to remain in power he has to toughen up, cut out superficial feel good, fluffy priorities and apology parades and get down to the business of job creation and expanding the middle class.  That includes building pipelines and even seeking DPA’s for the likes of SNC, if he can get past the politically correct lynch mob.  He can try to maintain his climate action policy, but he’s got to focus on what’s most important to most people or the Conservatives will rightly eat his lunch.  It may already be too late.  

I of course disagree but that was well written. Thank you for such a well written response. I appreciate that a lot. Listen Z  I will try keep it short lol. I agree many countries supported Ghaddafi. Of course in the entire world Lavalin by far is not the only briber but that does not excuse what Trudeau has done.

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9 hours ago, egghead said:

I read it . That is why i say u move the goal post. We are taking about breaking the law, and you are talking the "political" fallout.  I am a simple man, and I only ask simple question. If ag gives dpa to snc, can u call rcmp or for constitutional review or for judicial review?

I am not saying ag shall give dpa to snc. 

I apologize its a complex question you asked and I am trying my hardest to explain it. It is confusing if you don't practice this area of law.

Please believe me the AG can not just undo things. He has power to conduct a trial but it would be rare indeed. This AG is actually a law prof.  Maybe that will cause Trudeau to listen to him and not try turn him into a puppet. Believe me I am not against dpas when used properly. There is a huge debate on whether they protect corrupt businesses in the UK and the US as well. However read the Rolls Royce case in the UK. If tha is the model you think would work with Lavalin I could get that. Unfortunately it's not anywhere near want Lavalin has said it would consider. As well no politician in the UK would dared to have tried to impose one.

I do not believe myself dpas should be used to protect criminals just because they employ people.

 

Edited by Rue

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7 hours ago, Owly said:

I don't think your memory failed you. I am awaiting wcm to show us a cite which proves his comments about snc having influenced the adoption of the dpa law in Canada.

You better re-read what I wrote carefully  :rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, Rue said:

I apologize its a complex question you asked and I am trying my hardest to explain it. It is confusing if you don't practice this area of law.

Please believe me the AG can not just undo things. He has power to conduct a trial but it would be rare indeed. This AG is actually a law prof.  Maybe that will cause Trudeau to listen to him and not try turn him into a puppet. Believe me I am not against dpas when used properly. There is a huge debate on whether they protect corrupt businesses in the UK and the US as well. However read the Rolls Royce case in the UK. If tha is the model you think would work with Lavalin I could get that. Unfortunately it's not anywhere near want Lavalin has said it would consider. As well no politician in the UK would dared to have tried to impose one.

I do not believe myself dpas should be used to protect criminals just because they employ people.

 

I always want this forums to have a sarcasm icon :rolleyes:

You are right. This is a complex issue. Did JT and his minions know this? Of course, they knew. When it was so grey, they believed they would get away with it. Too bad, JWR said no. 

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8 hours ago, Owly said:

If he doesn't care about jobs in Alta. why is he pushing for the Trans Mountain pipeline to be built.?

Which liberal-verse are you from? In this universe, our liberal party did not push the pipeline to  be build. They just used the tax dollars to buy the pipline project :lol:

8 hours ago, Owly said:

Attempt to read this. It's not complicated.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau reaffirmed his support for the Trans Mountain expansion project Friday vowing to fight on after the Federal Court of Appeal handed his government a ruling that threatens to derail the pipeline entirely.

Speaking to reporters in Oshawa, Ont., Trudeau said the government is committed to building the pipeline the "right way" to satisfy the court's demands.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tasker-trans-mountain-trudeau-1.4806361

Just words, no action :lol:

Edited by egghead

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1 minute ago, egghead said:

Which liberal-verse you are from? In this universe, our liberal party did not push the pipeline to  be build. They just used the tax dollars to buy the pipline project :lol:

I'm from the real world. Trudeau did push for Trans Mountain but was challenged by the courts who said the environmental impact study was not sufficient. Righties seem to not read very well sometimes it seems.

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5 minutes ago, Owly said:

I'm from the real world. Trudeau did push for Trans Mountain but was challenged by the courts who said the environmental impact study was not sufficient. Righties seem to not read very well sometimes it seems.

Haha, you better revisit the Mountain pipeline time-line. He and Horgan sat on their hands long before gov't bought the pipline project 

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16 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I get it that you personally feel like Trudeau is the be-all end-all, but it might be time to step back and take another look at Mr Sunny Ways.

Have you ever heard that saying: "If you put a frog in hot water it will jump out but if you put it in cold water you can keep turning up the heat and the frog will stay there 'til it dies"? Well, if you just suddenly learned all there is to know about Trudeau up to this point would he still have your respect? At some point you need to place more value on your own loyalty, and just step away from a guy who has turned out to be a fraudster.

JWR's issues are hers alone, but they're nowhere near as bad as Trudeau's. And the truth from her is as good as anyone's truth if she has the evidence to back her up, which apparently she does.

Honestly, what makes her recordings unethical? She felt like she was being pressured to do the wrong thing, by people who had absolutely no right to pressure her.

 

At this point do you feel like Trudeau put pressure on JWR to give SNC a DPA? Do you feel like it was Trudeau's place to do so? Why did his story change so much? Why is he so afraid to get to the bottom of this? Why would he create a law JUST TO GET A COMPANY LIKE SNC ACCESS TO GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS WHEN THEY HAVE SO MANY SERIOUS CRIMINAL ALLEGATIONS AGAINST THEM in the first place?

 

Trudeau pretends to care about 9,000 jobs (that was another lie of his) at SNC in Montreal, but he literally doesn't give a crap about 100,000 jobs in Alberta. And he's your guy? That's where your loyalties lie? This is your hill to die on? I hope that you come to your senses soon bruh because we need to get this guy out of power. This is the most critical vote in the history of our country, by far.

 

 

 

 

 

First off, I don’t see politicians of any political stripe as especially noble or honest or decent.  Trudeau is one of many snake oil salesmen.  I see JWR as a self-righteous and privileged manipulator not unlike Trudeau.  She dresses up her ambitious machinations in the cloak of “speaking truth to power” as an underrepresented Indigenous woman, but of course she doesn’t share the plights of most Indigenous people.  I do want to see more jobs in the oil sands.  I see the anti-DPA forces and the eco warrior forces preventing pipelines as almost one and the same.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

First off, I don’t see politicians of any political stripe as especially noble or honest or decent.  Trudeau is one of many snake oil salesmen.  I see JWR as a self-righteous and privileged manipulator not unlike Trudeau.  She dresses up her ambitious machinations in the cloak of “speaking truth to power” as an underrepresented Indigenous woman, but of course she doesn’t share the plights of most Indigenous people.  I do want to see more jobs in the oil sands.  I see the anti-DPA forces and the eco warrior forces preventing pipelines as almost one and the same.  

I actually agree with you until the last sentence myself. However I know many people who challenge how Trudeau has acted over Lavalin as one issue and their opinions over the pipeline issue as another and they want pipelines

I also believe many Liberals don't agree with Trudeau did at all but will not say so out loud.

Look the pipeline issue let's be honest, no matter who is in power over that issue, either BC or Alberta will hate you depending on your decision. You can't please them both. .

The closest analogies we have to politicians trying to interfere with on-going  legal processes are Nixon and Trump and in Canada Marcel Duplessis and Jean Charest..

 

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