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Trudeau lying about SNC

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On 5/18/2019 at 8:19 PM, WestCanMan said:

The problem is that SNC was caught paying off a politician ($2M) to help get themselves a bridge contract. Why is Trudeau trying so hard to get them back in the loop? Does he have a finacial stake in it?

I think he has people in his party who may have compromised themselves with Lavalin. I suspect him as well. It would explain a lot. Sooner or later the truth will come out.

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On 4/12/2019 at 10:10 PM, egghead said:

Is it just me, or did Rue move the goal post? :blink:

It's just you.

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3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

GOOD

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/snc-lavalin-trial-corruption-bribery-1.5153429

Now let's see how much the courts can discover about them. Also it will expose some people in government.  Throw the book at em.

There is enough evidence against SNC-Lavalin for the engineering corporation to be tried on fraud and bribery charges, a Quebec court judge ruled Wednesday. 

SNC-Lavalin spent months lobbying the federal government to avoid finding itself in this position. It hoped to use a new legal mechanism — a deferred prosecution agreement (DPA) — to pay a fine rather than risk conviction. ...

[Federal prosecutors] allege SNC-Lavalin paid around $48 million in bribes to Libyan officials between 2001 and 2011, a violation of the Corruption of Foreign Public Officials Act.

Federal prosecutors also allege SNC-Lavalin defrauded a number of Libyan institutions out of $130 million over the same period. ...

The current legal uncertainty around SNC-Lavalin extends beyond the pending trial on corruption in Libya.

The RCMP has an open investigation into whether senior company officials were aware of illegal payments made to the former head of Canada's Federal Bridge Corporation, Michel Fournier.

He pleaded guilty in 2017 to receiving $2.3 million from an SNC subsidiary between 2001 and 2003. Fournier admitted that, in exchange, he helped the corporation secure a $127-million contract to refurbish Montreal's Jacques Cartier Bridge.

And the Liberals response ... ?

The new federal justice minister, David Lametti, has so far refused to comment on whether the government is still considering offering SNC-Lavalin a DPA. Legally, he can do so up until there is a verdict in the criminal case. ...

But the federal infrastructure minister, François-Philippe Champagne, reiterated the Liberal government's concerns about the damage a criminal trial could cause SNC-Lavalin.

There are few engineering companies in Canada, he said, who have SNC-Lavalin's experience with major infrastructure projects.

"We need to make sure that we have companies like that who can deliver on the projects that we have in Canada," said Champagne, who represents the central Quebec riding of Saint-Maurice—Champlain.

I think he must have meant the damage SNCL has caused to itself. Surely he isn't suggesting that the Federal Prosecutors and now a Quebec court judge are to blame for prosecuting crimes?!

/sarcasm 

 

 

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12 hours ago, GostHacked said:

GOOD

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/snc-lavalin-trial-corruption-bribery-1.5153429

Now let's see how much the courts can discover about them. Also it will expose some people in government.  Throw the book at em.

It's been put off so long now there'll be little more than a handful of old cronies being rolled into court in wheelchairs with their oxygen bottles.

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4 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's been put off so long now there'll be little more than a handful of old cronies being rolled into court in wheelchairs with their oxygen bottles.

I am hoping it exposes government officials that were also involved in this scandal.  Maybe that's the best we can hope for.

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3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I am hoping it exposes government officials that were also involved in this scandal.  Maybe that's the best we can hope for.

The very best would be a citizenry galvanized against corruption and a new determination to open up every official process in this country to virtually total public awareness. 

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3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I am hoping it exposes government officials that were also involved in this scandal.  Maybe that's the best we can hope for.

Considering the Liberals strong support for SNCL, I thought maybe SNCL didn't have to bribe officials for contracts them but ... this:

-Michael Fournier, former head of Canada Federal Bridge Corporation, sentenced to 5.5 years for taking a bribe from SNC on a Quebec project. (Chretien era)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/fournier-charged-snc-lavalin-1.4260367

SNCL people already charged for Libyan bribes:

-A former SNC-Lavalin executive, Riadh Ben Aïssa, pleaded guilty in Switzerland in 2014 to paying millions of dollars worth bribes to one of Gadhafi's sons.

-Stephane Roy, a financial controller at SNC-Lavalin, was also charged with bribing Libyan officals. That case was dismissed when a judge ruled last year that prosecutors were taking too long to move the proceedings forward.

-Another former executive, Sami Bebawi, is scheduled to stand trial in October on accusations he too bribed Libyan officials.

Bribing foreign officials wasn't even made illegal in Canada until 1999, after the OECD Convention passed. 

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1 hour ago, jacee said:

Considering the Liberals strong support for SNCL, I thought maybe SNCL didn't have to bribe officials for contracts them but ... this:

-Michael Fournier, former head of Canada Federal Bridge Corporation, sentenced to 5.5 years for taking a bribe from SNC on a Quebec project. (Chretien era)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/fournier-charged-snc-lavalin-1.4260367

SNCL people already charged for Libyan bribes:

-A former SNC-Lavalin executive, Riadh Ben Aïssa, pleaded guilty in Switzerland in 2014 to paying millions of dollars worth bribes to one of Gadhafi's sons.

-Stephane Roy, a financial controller at SNC-Lavalin, was also charged with bribing Libyan officals. That case was dismissed when a judge ruled last year that prosecutors were taking too long to move the proceedings forward.

-Another former executive, Sami Bebawi, is scheduled to stand trial in October on accusations he too bribed Libyan officials.

Bribing foreign officials wasn't even made illegal in Canada until 1999, after the OECD Convention passed. 

It does not matter to me if bribery is legal or not, it sure is a shady practice. But I want to see more heads roll. There has been much more since that.  And tell me why the Ottawa LRT is 1.5 billion overbudget, 2 years overdue, and SNC-LAvalin gets the go ahead for Phase 2 when they did not meet the technical score.  Absolute bullshit.

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18 hours ago, GostHacked said:

It does not matter to me if bribery is legal or not, it sure is a shady practice. But I want to see more heads roll. There has been much more since that.  And tell me why the Ottawa LRT is 1.5 billion overbudget, 2 years overdue, and SNC-LAvalin gets the go ahead for Phase 2 when they did not meet the technical score.  Absolute bullshit.

What you are seeing is the Canadian version of "too big to fail" - and I strongly expect for all of the same reasons.  What Canadians (and Americans) need to learn is how "rule-by-special-interest" works.   What everyone needs to learn (and see in court) is how the financial side of RBSI plays out.

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4 hours ago, cannuck said:

What Canadians (and Americans) need to learn is how "rule-by-special-interest" works.

What is there to learn exactly, its been this way forever.  What people need to do is to monitor their governments to a degree that would make Orwell blush.

The problem is that partisans are reluctant to having their own team subjected to that. All it will take is one political party to agree to it and the rest will have no choice but to follow and compete over who opens themselves up the most to accountability. 

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25 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What is there to learn exactly, its been this way forever.  What people need to do is to monitor their governments to a degree that would make Orwell blush.

The problem is that partisans are reluctant to having their own team subjected to that. All it will take is one political party to agree to it and the rest will have no choice but to follow and compete over who opens themselves up the most to accountability. 

Great ideas, that our enemies Russia and China would agree with. We should investigate ourselves to the point that we become dysfunctional, as the crimes inherent to our human nature are exposed. Then we should condemn ourselves, while our enemies applaud our self-loathing virtue.

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2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Great ideas, that our enemies Russia and China would agree with. We should investigate ourselves to the point that we become dysfunctional, as the crimes inherent to our human nature are exposed. Then we should condemn ourselves, while our enemies applaud our self-loathing virtue.

This is essentially advocating for more corruption from SNC.

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3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Great ideas, that our enemies Russia and China would agree with. We should investigate ourselves to the point that we become dysfunctional, as the crimes inherent to our human nature are exposed. Then we should condemn ourselves, while our enemies applaud our self-loathing virtue.

OTOH we could embrace our inner Ferengis and exalt our criminality as a virtue. 

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2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

OTOH we could embrace our inner Ferengis and exalt our criminality as a virtue. 

These people would sell out their own mothers to make a buck.  I believe that is Rule #6  " Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity.  "  coupled with #27 " There's nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman. "  because of rule 181 " Not even dishonesty can tarnish the shine of profit  "

Our government is noting more than the Grand Nagus telling corporations to do what ever they want to in order to make a profit.

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4 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

These people would sell out their own mothers to make a buck.

Along with their country's virtue to make a point.

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17 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Along with their country's virtue to make a point.

And here I though we wanted to be different from China and Russia  (corruption).....

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1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

And here I though we wanted to be different from China and Russia  (corruption).....

Remember when they told us doing business would make them more like us?  Nowadays China's leaders eschew pyjamas in lieu of crisp conservative looking business suits and the leaders of the shiniest beacons of democracy and freedom admire dictatorship and the endless terms of office their presidents are afforded.

The scary part is how willingly so many human beings will afford their betters their secrecy and cronyism. 

Edited by eyeball

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5 hours ago, eyeball said:

What is there to learn exactly, its been this way forever.  What people need to do is to monitor their governments to a degree that would make Orwell blush.

The problem is that partisans are reluctant to having their own team subjected to that. All it will take is one political party to agree to it and the rest will have no choice but to follow and compete over who opens themselves up the most to accountability. 

The old SK conservatives did this in SK at the end of the Devine era.  The REAL deal got buried ... by the NDP when they came to power, and most of the convictions ended up being for cheating on expenses.  Some of the really big crimes were shared or paralleled by the Romanow crowd, so they ramped down the whole deal before they had to put themselves under the microscope.

Bottom line is the Conservatives put their own people in jail - pretty much wiping out the party for years to come.  The NDP just continued with the same criminal activities behind the scenes as if nothing had happened.

Edited by cannuck

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27 minutes ago, cannuck said:

The old SK conservatives did this in SK at the end of the Devine era.

.....

The NDP just continued with the same criminal activities behind the scenes as if nothing had happened.

Whataboutism - the retreat of lickspittles and apologists everywhere.

And just to be sure, nobody but NOBODY, has even come close to doing what I'm taking about. Not even close.

 

Edited by eyeball

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We 

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Whataboutism - the retreat of lickspittles and apologists everywhere.

And just to be sure, nobody but NOBODY, has even come close to doing what I'm taking about. Not even close.

 

Stop trying to spin this.  You said: "The problem is that partisans are reluctant to having their own team subjected to that. All it will take is one political party to agree to it and the rest will have no choice but to follow and compete over who opens themselves up the most to accountability."  I simply told you that it HAS been done - by Conservatives, not by socialists.  Had the socialists not intervened to save their own crooked ass, the investigation would have continued swimming upstream to the real problems - shared by both the NDP and Conservatives.  I can say this because I was there doing my part to try to bring the problem to an end.   It's a little different from bitching and moaning on the internet from your Mother's basement.

BTW: it is all public record at the courthouse.  

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5 hours ago, GostHacked said:

This is essentially advocating for more corruption from SNC.

No, it does not. It comes down to a question of discriminating between degrees of things, which seems to be problem that liberals have. Equating one thing to another, different thing is not always the best way to decide on a matter.

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5 hours ago, eyeball said:

OTOH we could embrace our inner Ferengis and exalt our criminality as a virtue. 

Another option is not to be so extreme one way or another, but to use wisdom and intelligence to make more moderate judgements. That's not a liberal trait these days.

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19 minutes ago, cannuck said:

I simply told you that it HAS been done - by Conservatives, not by socialists.

Not even close, as evidenced by the fact the NDP were able to carry on like nothing changed.

Edited by eyeball

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2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Another option is not to be so extreme one way or another, but to use wisdom and intelligence to make more moderate judgements. That's not a liberal trait these days.

I'm talking about the traits of the governed not the government's licksplittles.

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