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Argus

What's wrong with the United States?

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1 hour ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Yes far more Canadians cross the US border because the cartels of milk for example and other products that are much cheaper in border towns in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_diaspora

But as a whole, there are about 1m Canadians in the US, while there are 2m Americans in Canada.

 

But there are 10X as many Americans, so still a larger ratio of Canadians in the USA.   Plus about 10% of Canadians don't live in Canada, and there is a large net migration loss to the USA and other nations.   Far fewer Americans live abroad as a percentage of the population.

 

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The two countries are very good, I like the US, but it's not because it is a superpower militarily that it is that good of a country to live in. It's not that easy to get by in the US, it's not as unregulated as some people think, it's certain that the standards of living in the US are good, but there are lots of hidden fees and obstacles for living a great life. Many people live very poorly. You have ghettos in your big, richest States like California. Even in Montréal we don't have that much abject poverty. Yes there are homeless people in Canada, but in the US you have entire slums. The poorest and 'most dangerous' part of town in Montréal is called 'Montréal-Nord', and you see no slums like in California, and no shooting, no violence. People are poor, some people are drunk late at night in the streets, but it isn't that dangerous nor does it feel that much of a ghetto.

 

The cost of living in the U.S. is lower than in Canada.   Poverty rates are about the same.  There are plenty of shootings in Toronto and Winnipeg.

Most Americans live their days the same as most Canadians.

 

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In the US, if you're ambitious and specifically want a white collar job, you have to live in a big city, where the rent is enormous. In San Francisco for instance, $100K a year is considered poor. Yes the white collar workers make a lot of money, but they spend about half of it on rent in the hopes of maybe making it, which most of them wont, and will spend years and years trying to catch a carrot they won't be able to reach. For the rural areas, white collar jobs are scarce. So the blue collar jobs are there, they pay well, but are mostly short term. You have the habit to live a certain lifestyle, then realize that you lost your job and have to figure out how to pay for the credit on almost everything you own.

 

Not always true...the U.S. has far more big cities in which to live, and far more opportunities in many more cities.    Job mobility is also far more robust than in Canada, which has entire regions that are dying (e.g Maritimes), with fewer choices now that the Alberta oil patch has hit the skids.   So they go south.   It is estimated that 300,000 Canadians live/work in California alone.

 

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The entrepreneurial route though is very good in the US. There are many advantages to be your own boss and to also own your employees, who also are ambitious and want to perform so they will get a promotion or something in return. 

 

Agreed....I have never considered moving to Canada for opportunities because there are plenty right in my home state, which is on the Canadian border.   Most Americans don't think of Canada in the same way as a land of risk and opportunity.  They don't need to.

The U.S. border and access to U.S. markets are far more important to Canada than to the United States.

 

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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21 hours ago, Argus said:

We certainly have some, but we have nowhere near the level of corruption in the US. Hundreds of US politicians and bureaucrats at every level are arrested every year on corruption charges.

The New York Times tracked this some year ago and found that 824 officials at state, local and federal levels were convicted of corruption charges in Florida in a ten year period. New York had 704, while Texas, Pennsylvania, California and Ohio all had about 550 apiece. That's simply not something that happens in Canada.

Correct.  But you're comparing a population of 350 million to one of 35 million.  The bureaucracy is a lot larger in the United States, with many more people working within it.  

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16 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I already know the governing party here are idiots, and have said so numerous times.

You, on the other hand, deny your country is run by idiots.

Therefore - where's your infrastructure program?

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2 hours ago, Truth Detector said:

Correct.  But you're comparing a population of 350 million to one of 35 million.  The bureaucracy is a lot larger in the United States, with many more people working within it.  

I don't buy that. Ontario's population is bigger than Ohio or Pennsylvania, but you sure as hell don't see 50 government bureaucrats and politicians arrested for corruption here every damn year.

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17 minutes ago, Argus said:

I already know the governing party here are idiots, and have said so numerous times.

You, on the other hand, deny your country is run by idiots.

Therefore - where's your infrastructure program?

 

Not sure what you mean here....the United States hasn't had a national infrastructure program since FDR and later Ike's interstate highway system.

Projects are proposed and developed mostly at the state level with matching federal funding depending on the type of project...lately, LRT has been getting plenty of attention in urban areas.    My metro area has built three LRT lines in the past 15 years....another is scheduled to start next year.

State delegations at the federal level compete for funding in exchange for votes.

Clearly the existing "system" has built many miles of U.S. infrastructure...not too shabby for "idiots".

 

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Not sure what you mean here....the United States hasn't had a national infrastructure program since FDR and later Ike's interstate highway system.

Projects are proposed and developed mostly at the state level with matching federal funding depending on the type of project...lately, LRT has been getting plenty of attention in urban areas.    My metro area has built three LRT lines in the past 15 years....another is scheduled to start next year.

State delegations at the federal level compete for funding in exchange for votes.

Clearly the exiting "system" has built many miles of U.S. infrastructure...not too shabby for "idiots".

 

Your own president said the place was like the third world and he was going to draw up a billion dollar infrastructure program to repair some of the damage. It's one of only two things he said during the election that I liked. And he hasn't done the other one either.

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15 minutes ago, Argus said:

I don't buy that. Ontario's population is bigger than Ohio or Pennsylvania, but you sure as hell don't see 50 government bureaucrats and politicians arrested for corruption here every damn year.

 

Ontario has bungled plenty of infrastructure projects through incompetence and malfeasance.  

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

Your own president said the place was like the third world and he was going to draw up a billion dollar infrastructure program to repair some of the damage. It's one of only two things he said during the election that I liked. And he hasn't done the other one either.

 

But a billion dollars wouldn't do very much...not even in Canada.

"Infrastructure program" has long been political fodder for both parties going back long before Trump.

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Infrastructure programs are a joke.  Just look at ours.

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Besides, Obama's trillion dollar stimulus package was suppose to take care of infrastructure and other "shovel ready" jobs.

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Ontario has bungled plenty of infrastructure projects through incompetence and malfeasance.  

We were talking about corruption.

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

But a billion dollars wouldn't do very much...not even in Canada.

"Infrastructure program" has long been political fodder for both parties going back long before Trump.

My mistake. His promise was for a $1.5 TRILLION dollar infrastructure program. It was one of the central campaign themes, along with a wall that he never bothered to get built, and cutting the deficit.

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1 hour ago, Truth Detector said:

Besides, Obama's trillion dollar stimulus package was suppose to take care of infrastructure and other "shovel ready" jobs.

Are you saying Trump is as useless as Obama was?

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

Are you saying Trump is as useless as Obama was?

Almost.  The only positive about Trump is his expansion of the energy industry and the reduction of corporate tax rates.  But it’s off-set by much of his tariffs, and bad trade policy.  I’m not a big fan of his spending and deficits.

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

My mistake. His promise was for a $1.5 TRILLION dollar infrastructure program. It was one of the central campaign themes, along with a wall that he never bothered to get built, and cutting the deficit.

 

Well, I specifically did not vote for Trump because of his expected fiscal excesses, regardless of what he said on the campaign trail.

Congress did authorize more barrier funding (over 600 miles already existed)...consider that to be "infrastructure spending".

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Well, I specifically did not vote for Trump because of his expected fiscal excesses, regardless of what he said on the campaign trail.

Congress did authorize more barrier funding (over 600 miles already existed)...consider that to be "infrastructure spending".

That still leaves you with bridges falling down, third world airports, and an overall transportation system that would make someone from Europe or China laugh.

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18 minutes ago, Argus said:

That still leaves you with bridges falling down, third world airports, and an overall transportation system that would make someone from Europe or China laugh.

 

Let them laugh....the U.S. is still building new bridges, rail lines, and highways.   Just as before.  

Why does it matter to you in Canada, which isn't doing any better in that regard ?

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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58 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Let them laugh....the U.S. is still building new bridges, rail lines, and highways.   Just as before.  

Why does it matter to you in Canada, which isn't doing any better in that regard ?

Good question. Why does anything that happens in the US or Europe matter to me? Why should I care if they all go up in flames? Well, aside from my US stocks...

I guess because i have a personal interest in seeing the countries which, to me, represent civilization, prospering and being properly and efficiently governed. I don't like to see them falling behind or falling apart due to incompetent, brainless idiots in charge. Unfortunately, and much to my frustration, that seems to be the only kind of governments which get elected these days. Trump and his administration are morons - as are Trudeau and his - as is Theresa May, Angela Merkel, Emmanual Macron, and all too many others. These countries are the bullwarks of civilization and they're run by morons. Nor do I see much likelihood of that improving any time soon. Arguably some leftist idiot Democrat will at least be saner and smarter than Trump but that's a pretty goddam low bar to pass. God only knows what's going to happen to the UK, and for Germany.... I think it's an open question whether the New York City police department could conquer all of Germany right now, given the pathetic run-down state of its military. And yes, I know ours is almost as bad.

I have a feeling the damn Chinese are going to wind up running the world.

Edited by Argus

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

Good question. Why does anything that happens in the US or Europe matter to me? Why should I care if they all go up in flames? Well, aside from my US stocks...

I guess because i have a personal interest in seeing the countries which, to me, represent civilization, prospering and being properly and efficiently governed. I don't like to see them falling behind or falling apart due to incompetent, brainless idiots in charge....

 

Lagging investment in U.S. infrastructure is an issue that pre-dates President Trump by decades, and it will continue long after Trump is gone....so that really isn't the issue.

In the U.S., projects are driven more by state and local spending, with an expectation of matching funds from federal fuel taxes and general fund.   So any criticism should start with them, not Trump.   The high speed rail line project in California not only wasted billions, but also created even more reluctance for such projects in the near future.

As for the larger issue of American contributions to "civilization",  U.S. interests over the past 100 years may or may not coincide with your desires in Canada...same thing can be expected in the future.  In general, Americans do not fret over poor infrastructure conditions in Canada.    That's Canada's choice.....

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On 2/24/2019 at 7:16 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

But there are 10X as many Americans, so still a larger ratio of Canadians in the USA.   Plus about 10% of Canadians don't live in Canada, and there is a large net migration loss to the USA and other nations.   Far fewer Americans live abroad as a percentage of the population.

  

Yes, but let's agree on this one thing; the Americans living in Canada recognize themselves as way much more of Americans than Canadians recognize themselves as Canadians living in America, which means that Americans live in Canada way more than Canadians live in the US. In fact, not a lot of Canadians really cross the border to live in the US. The CINO (Canadians in Name Only) are abundant near the border.

What you failed to address in your whole post is the slum issue. You talked about gun violence in Toronto and Winnipeg and I totally agree with you, it happens. But I was specifically talking about the fact that in Canada, there are almost no slums compared to the richest and most populous States of the US. In California, just in LA you have way more slums than there are in Canada. It's the same thing in San Francisco, nothing compares to the dangers of living there compared to any other Canadian cities. You cited Toronto as a place of gun violence, well look at Chicago for a minute. I don't agree on gun control at all, but there is a huge problem in the US in the fact that the losers of the system are left behind and not taken care of. Yes it rewards the best, but the ones who are not on the top of the pyramid in the US live like utter shit, especially compared to Canada. It's a shame that parts of LA look like Caracas.

Edited by QuebecOverCanada

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23 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Yes, but let's agree on this one thing; the Americans living in Canada recognize themselves as way much more of Americans than Canadians recognize themselves as Canadians living in America, which means that Americans live in Canada way more than Canadians live in the US. In fact, not a lot of Canadians really cross the border to live in the US. The CINO (Canadians in Name Only) are abundant near the border.

 

I don't care what they consider themselves, but clearly there are many Canadians who rely on and avail themselves of not only access to the United States, but permanent residency and real estate ownership, at higher ratios than Americans in Canada based on total population.   It has been reported that about 10% of Canadians actually have U.S. citizenship whether desired or not...the reverse in not true for the American population and Canada.   How does that happen without higher levels/ties to American nationals ?

Open access to the U.S. border is more important to Canada for a variety of reasons, which logically extends to open access to the United States.   Closing the border would have significant consequences for both nations, but more so in Canada.    More Canadians cross the border than do Americans, by a 2:1 ratio based on CBSA data.

 

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What you failed to address in your whole post is the slum issue. You talked about gun violence in Toronto and Winnipeg and I totally agree with you, it happens. But I was specifically talking about the fact that in Canada, there are almost no slums compared to the richest and most populous States of the US. In California, just in LA you have way more slums than there are in Canada. It's the same thing in San Francisco, nothing compares to the dangers of living there compared to any other Canadian cities. You cited Toronto as a place of gun violence, well look at Chicago for a minute. I don't agree on gun control at all, but there is a huge problem in the US in the fact that the losers of the system are left behind and not taken care of. Yes it rewards the best, but the ones who are not on the top of the pyramid in the US live like utter shit, especially compared to Canada. It's a shame that parts of LA look like Caracas.

 

Rural "slums" and poverty are easily found in Canada as well, and there are areas of some metros that are considered just as bad (e.g. Surrey BC).   Native Americans on and off reserves arguably do better than Canada's "aboriginals".   U.S. gun violence/homicides are actually at 30 years lows (FBI uniform crime data), and Canada is much worse than other peer OECD nations besides the USA outlier.  Americans will continue to have the right to own and bear arms for the foreseeable future with minor efforts to give the perception of "gun control".

Socio-economic problems can be found in many nations around the world, and I see little reason to focus just on the United States unless some other agenda is in play.

Edited by bush_cheney2004

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4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 Rural "slums" and poverty are easily found in Canada as well, and there are areas of some metros that are considered just as bad (e.g. Surrey BC).   Native Americans on and off reserves arguably do better than Canada's "aboriginals".   U.S. gun violence/homicides are actually at 30 years lows (FBI uniform crime data), and Canada is much worse than other peer OECD nations besides the USA outlier.  Americans will continue to have the right to own and bear arms for the foreseeable future with minor efforts to give the feeling of "gun control".

Socio-economic problems can be found in many nations around the world, and I see little reason to focus just on the United States unless some other agenda is in play.

Once again, I'm not at all for gun control. Don't put words in my mouth, I never addressed this non issue in my posts but you did and I answered about it, and I will repeat it; I AM NOT FOR GUN CONTROL. Is that clear enough? I don't care about the gun violence statistics whatsoever and never brought it up, so stop talking about a non issue which I was not discussing. What I am talking about, is the fact that in the US, there are literal slums which you can find yes in the Native Reserves, but not in the cities.

Look, I live in Montréal. 

It's considered as a poor city. Yet, we have no slums. 

In LA, you have tents and caravans of homeless people, cities of homelessness that are enormous.

The people that are at the extreme lower end in the US are not taken care of, in Canada they are and it shows. We have almost no crime, even in big cities. In Montréal, we have almost no shootings except from the mob from time to time or a school shooter once in a decade or so. It's not unsafe almost  anywhere in Montréal. But take Chicago, San Francisco, and you may be in a very bad neighborhood with people doing heroin literally on the sidewalk with needles everywhere. We have that on very small scale in Montréal, very small. We do recognize the existence of people who are simply losers and take care of them pretty well I would say all things considered. In the US, the losers are left on the streets and dying in abject poverty. This point, you never bring it up

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11 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Once again, I'm not at all for gun control. Don't put words in my mouth, I never addressed this non issue in my posts but you did and I answered about it, and I will repeat it; I AM NOT FOR GUN CONTROL. Is that clear enough? I don't care about the gun violence statistics whatsoever and never brought it up, so stop talking about a non issue which I was not discussing. What I am talking about, is the fact that in the US, there are literal slums which you can find yes in the Native Reserves, but not in the cities.

 

 

Then why bring up gun violence at all....as you did above ?

There are literal slums in Canada....whether you believe it or not (e.g. Downtown Eastside, Vancouver).   And yes, there are more slums in U.S. cities.

 

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Look, I live in Montréal. 

It's considered as a poor city. Yet, we have no slums. 

In LA, you have tents and caravans of homeless people, cities of homelessness that are enormous.

The people that are at the extreme lower end in the US are not taken care of, in Canada they are and it shows. We have almost no crime, even in big cities. In Montréal, we have almost no shootings except from the mob from time to time or a school shooter once in a decade or so. It's not unsafe almost  anywhere in Montréal. But take Chicago, San Francisco, and you may be in a very bad neighborhood with people doing heroin literally on the sidewalk with needles everywhere. We have that on very small scale in Montréal, very small. We do recognize the existence of people who are simply losers and take care of them pretty well I would say all things considered. In the US, the losers are left on the streets and dying in abject poverty. This point, you never bring it up

 

This is either very ignorant or an insult to many people and organizations that do support and care for the poor and mentally ill in the United States.  My own metro built a heated enclosure for the homeless this past winter as many would not stay in shelters provided.   It is far easier to survive on the streets in southern U.S. cities for the same reasons that Canadians flock there to escape the winter.

Montreal sure as hell isn't a paradise either.   Heroin...needles...easily found in any Canadian city.   

 

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Lagging investment in U.S. infrastructure is an issue that pre-dates President Trump by decades, and it will continue long after Trump is gone....so that really isn't the issue.

The issue is shitty government. Why do you - and we - have such shitty governments at all levels?

I'm not picking on the shitty American governments. I've been voting for forty years and I've never voted FOR a politician at any level. I just try to pick the one who is likely to be the least stupid.

As a conservative, I think that there are necessary, mandatory things government needs to pay for. Transportation infrastructure is one of the most important of these since the economy is strongly impacted by it. Such things need to be built and maintained as close to 100% as possible. Idiots who shortchange the maintenance and let things run down are not conservatives. They're venal, self-serving idiots who are only interested in 'keeping taxes down' until the next election.

Keeping taxes down is not a conservative belief. It only flows from the conservative believe in small government. But that belief in small government includes efficient government that takes care of the things government NEEDS to take care of.

Edited by Argus

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