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Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

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Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNcRXeCzpno

I don’t know what God or Satan’s game is, but God giving Satan dominion over our political/physical realm as well as the power to deceive our spiritual/religious realm in us all seems counterintuitive to what a good God would do.

It seems like God is giving Satan the advantage, in terms of our ability to think without deception or Satan’s undo interference.

Rev12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Why did God curse us with Satan and her minions?

It cannot be to give us free will as none of us have the free will to never sin. If we did have that, we would have some examples of
people who never sinned.

On another tangent, scriptures say that God himself put’s lies/deception into his prophets and that he decides who will have faith or not by his doling out grace only to those he has pre-selected and thus denies other the ability to have faith or belief.

This biblical contradiction, strangely, refutes all that I put above on Satan. Can Christians clear up this contradiction?

Regards
DL

 

 

Edited by French Patriot

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8 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNcRXeCzpno

I don’t know what God or Satan’s game is, but God giving Satan dominion over our political/physical realm as well as the power to deceive our spiritual/religious realm in us all seems counterintuitive to what a good God would do.

It seems like God is giving Satan the advantage, in terms of our ability to think without deception or Satan’s undo interference.

Rev12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Why did God curse us with Satan and her minions?

It cannot be to give us free will as none of us have the free will to never sin. If we did have that, we would have some examples of
people who never sinned.

On another tangent, scriptures say that God himself put’s lies/deception into his prophets and that he decides who will have faith or not by his doling out grace only to those he has pre-selected and thus denies other the ability to have faith or belief.

This biblical contradiction, strangely, refutes all that I put above on Satan. Can Christians clear up this contradiction?

Regards
DL

 

 

 

According to the Scriptures, Satan has dominion over non-believers only.

 

Jesus had given an explanation about Satan's relationship with non-believers.

 

John 8

43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.

44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

 

Quote

This is not to say that he rules the world completely; God is still sovereign. But it does mean that God, in His infinite wisdom, has allowed Satan to operate in this world within the boundaries God has set for him. When the Bible says Satan has power over the world, we must remember that God has given him domain over unbelievers only.

Believers are no longer under the rule of Satan (Colossians 1:13). Unbelievers, on the other hand, are caught "in the snare of the devil" (2 Timothy 2:26), lie in the "power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19), and are in bondage to Satan (Ephesians 2:2).

https://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-god-world.html

 

On free will:
 

Quote

 

God’s revealed or preceptive will is not hidden from us. This facet of God’s will includes that which God has chosen to reveal to us in the Bible—His precepts are plainly stated. “He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God” (Micah 6:8). The preceptive will of God is what God wants us to do (or not do). For example, we know that it is God’s will that we speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15), repent, and turn to God (Acts 3:19). It is God’s revealed will that we not commit adultery (1 Corinthians 6:18) or get drunk (Ephesians 5:18). God’s revealed will is constantly “making wise the simple” (Psalm 19:7).

We are obligated to obey God’s revealed or preceptive will;
however, we have the ability to disobey.

 

In summary, the will of God involves three aspects: 1) God’s sovereign will is revealed in His unchangeable decrees. He decreed that there be light, and there was light (Genesis 1:3)—an example of His efficacious decree. He allowed Satan to torment Job (Job 1:12)—an example of His permissive decree. 2) God’s revealed will is contained in His precepts, given to us in order that we may walk in holiness. We have the ability (but not the right) to break these commands. 3) God’s dispositional will is His attitude. At times, God decrees something that gives Him no pleasure, such as the death of the wicked (see Ezekiel 33:11).
 

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/Gods-will.html

 

The practice of free will has more to do with salvation.  We are given the free will to choose between life or death.

 

 

As for pre-selection, here is an interesting read:

Quote

Who are the elect of God?

  https://www.gotquestions.org/elect-of-God.html

Edited by betsy

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37 minutes ago, betsy said:

According to the Scriptures, Satan has dominion over non-believers only.

Are believers not a part of the whole world?

I am willing to see your quote showing that believers are exempt from that clear statement that says that no one on earth is exempt.

God was the first to kill and bring death to earth and he is also the one who puts lies into us and is the father of all liars. Whose name would you put above God's for any attribute when he said he creates all that is evil?

43 minutes ago, betsy said:

 (Colossians 1:13). 

Is for heaven. Not here, unless you see earth as heaven the way Gnostic Christian Jesus does.

44 minutes ago, betsy said:

We are given the free will to choose between life or death.

I dealt with that lie in the O.P. Refute what I put or explain why no one can choose life all the time.

If you wish to chat, lets do. I do not mind quotes, but I cannot chat with Got question.

I want to see how you think and why you promote a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

Not how well you can google.

As scriptures say, come and reason.

Regards

DL

 

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7 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Are believers not a part of the whole world?

I am willing to see your quote showing that believers are exempt from that clear statement that says that no one on earth is exempt.

God was the first to kill and bring death to earth and he is also the one who puts lies into us and is the father of all liars. Whose name would you put above God's for any attribute when he said he creates all that is evil?

Is for heaven. Not here, unless you see earth as heaven the way Gnostic Christian Jesus does.

I dealt with that lie in the O.P. Refute what I put or explain why no one can choose life all the time.

If you wish to chat, lets do. I do not mind quotes, but I cannot chat with Got question.

I want to see how you think and why you promote a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

Not how well you can google.

As scriptures say, come and reason.

Regards

DL

 

Why put the tree in the middle of Eden, and tell Adam and Eve not to eat from it?   Why was the devil allowed to enter that garden?  Why were Adam and Eve banished from that garden?  Why do people die?

  If you don't believe - fine.   

Why do you care what Christians believe?

  Why waste time creating threads - especially when such  a benign response from a Christian easily  triggers you off?  

And you want me to chat with you????  :lol:

 

Bye bye. 

 

 

Edited by betsy

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3 hours ago, betsy said:

Why do you care what Christians believe?

I care because of the damage and harm Christians visit on innocent gays and women with their homophobic and misogynous teachings.

Do you know what the Golden Rule is?

Change the labels in this quote to women, minorities, gays or children being brainwashed by religions and it shows what we should be thinking and doing for each other.

 

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)

You asked a lot of good questions.

My main question is, why do you idol worship a genocidal son murdering prick of a God? 

Regards

DL

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33 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Satan, unless it's God. Then it's God all the way.

Which God? The genocidal son murderer?

Can you find a God that is not considered a moral monster?

I do not mean Satan. She is rather nice compared to Yahweh, especially when you count the murders that Yahweh is shown to have done compared to her.

Regards

DL

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12 minutes ago, French Patriot said:

Which God? The genocidal son murderer?

Can you find a God that is not considered a moral monster?

I do not mean Satan. She is rather nice compared to Yahweh, especially when you count the murders that Yahweh is shown to have done compared to her.

Regards

DL

Don't know, but if I ever get hold of that bugger I'll make his eye's water. Who the hell created this mess anyway? Someone should be held accountable.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Good and evil is all about statistics, probability, and playing the odds. There is no certainty, only sublime stochasticism. Like playing the casino.

Edited by OftenWrong
wrong ism
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Man is in control...as God and Satan, is a myth. They are a product of the imagination of superstitious people who did not know any better.

 

 

"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion."

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7 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Don't know, but if I ever get hold of that bugger I'll make his eye's water. Who the hell created this mess anyway? Someone should be held accountable.

Or maybe I'm wrong. Good and evil is all about statistics, probability, and playing the odds. There is no certainty, only sublime stochasticism. Like playing the casino.

We are on the same page. I have a bullet with Yahweh's name on it.

I might have remembered your position but my memory has always been that of an absent minded professor.

Regards

DL

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5 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

Man is in control...as God and Satan, is a myth. They are a product of the imagination of superstitious people who did not know any better.

 

 

"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion."

I agree. Christians cannot if they believe their book of myths in a literal way.

Regards

DL

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3 hours ago, French Patriot said:

We are on the same page. I have a bullet with Yahweh's name on it.

I might have remembered your position but my memory has always been that of an absent minded professor.

Regards

DL

I don't remember my position either. Let me know if you figure anything out.

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On 2/23/2019 at 9:47 PM, French Patriot said:

Are believers not a part of the whole world?

I am willing to see your quote showing that believers are exempt from that clear statement that says that no one on earth is exempt.

God was the first to kill and bring death to earth and he is also the one who puts lies into us and is the father of all liars. Whose name would you put above God's for any attribute when he said he creates all that is evil?

Is for heaven. Not here, unless you see earth as heaven the way Gnostic Christian Jesus does.

I dealt with that lie in the O.P. Refute what I put or explain why no one can choose life all the time.

If you wish to chat, lets do. I do not mind quotes, but I cannot chat with Got question.

I want to see how you think and why you promote a genocidal son murdering prick of a God.

Not how well you can google.

As scriptures say, come and reason.

Regards

DL

 

 

Btw, I'm not asking you to "chat" with the sources I give. 

I'm giving them so you'll have some understanding of what you claim.   It's been my experience in debates that most non-believers who make claim about the Bible, are either relying on other anti-Christian sources that has hardly any understanding of the Scriptures, or they've been cherry-picking lines from the Bible here and there - taking the verse(s) out of context.

 

No one claims that believers are exempt from Satan.   Satan will most likely try to target and confuse a Christian more than he would a non-believer - after all, isn't the purpose of Satan to take people away from God?   Why do you think Jesus had warned us repeatedly about the devil, if we're immune to him?  Here's my take on Satan's dominion.

Satan has dominion over non-believers because unlike believers,  non-believers don't believe in the Saviour, and they don't believe in the existence of Satan too.  If you don't think something exists, will you prepare for it?   Like, do we hang garlic around our necks so vampires won't get us?  Because they don't believe, that's why non-believers are very easy target.  They won't even know what hit them!

 

Will Satan come to us as he is, or will he use all sorts of deceptions and wiles?

 

Coincidentally, I've been discussing along this vein with a non-believer (in another forum), where-in I showed him that he is the classic sample of what Jesus described in John 8 (given above).  

 

Here is what I posted:

 

Here you go invoking this so-called "ad hominem" attack again. icon_lol.gif

Well, devildavid.....you gave yourself up for discussion when you kept giving your own opinion
as a non-believer,
for argument!



You were also the one who posed the question about God (and Satan as God's designated "landlord" on earth).
I addressed your question BLUNTLY! I gave you the Scriptures' explanation that Satan has dominion
on only non-believers!

I also gave you Jesus' explanation about non-believers and Satan - son/father relationship.



It is you who provides me with ammunition to support what the Scriptures say:

1. Your relentless attempt to confuse people away from God.

2. Your ignorance of the Scriptures does not prevent you from spouting off foolish things about the Scriptures (in your attempt to discredit the Bible) - in other words, just like the devil, you are spreading lies!



John 8
43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.





3. Your disparaging contempt for God.

4. You now speak for the devil - you're now his spokesman!
icon_lol.gif

 

 
Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
The devil appreciates your cooperation. Keep up the good work."



5. You proudly carry his name - which seems to be patronymic.

Patronymic is defined by Merriam: A patronymic, or patronym, is generally formed by adding a prefix or suffix to a name. Thus, a few centuries ago, the male patronymic of Patrick was Fitzpatrick ("Patrick's son"), that of Peter was Peterson or Petersen, that of Donald was MacDonald or McDonald, and that of Hernando was Hernández.

So from that perspective, devilDavid is to David what MacDonald is to Donald.



I am addressing your argument head-on!

I'm pointing out that you seem to fit Jesus' explanation about the Satan/non-believers father/son relationship to a T. shrug.gif


Based from the Scriptures, you're being manipulated by the devil. We know why.
You don't see it. You can't see it. We know why.


No ad hominem attack here.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

French Patriot, can you provide the Biblical verses that you claim in your OP?

Edited by betsy

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2 hours ago, betsy said:

2. Your ignorance of the Scriptures does not prevent you from spouting off foolish things about the Scriptures (in your attempt to discredit the Bible) - in other words, just like the devil, you are spreading lies!
 

Scriptures is just religious Gobbledy gook....just more useless words that you seem to think is proof of God...The Bible does a good job in discrediting itself .

Religion is dying...the more educated society becomes the more likely people will see through the religious lies and bullshit....their is not a shred of hard evidence to support your religion .All you have is words

Here is a feeble attempt of Christians trying to sell their lies ..The Creation Museum, located in Petersburg, Kentucky,...they display man living with dinosaurs ...haha...i thought Sara Palin was delusional when she said dinosaurs roamed the earth with man but now I can see it is Christianity thats delusional.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

Scriptures is just religious Gobbledy gook....just more useless words that you seem to think is proof of God...The Bible does a good job in discrediting itself .

Religion is dying...the more educated society becomes the more likely people will see through the religious lies and bullshit....their is not a shred of hard evidence to support your religion .All you have is words

Here is a feeble attempt of Christians trying to sell their lies ..The Creation Museum, located in Petersburg, Kentucky,...they display man living with dinosaurs ...haha...i thought Sara Palin was delusional when she said dinosaurs roamed the earth with man but now I can see it is Christianity thats delusional.

 

 

:rolleyes:

Irrelevant!  shrug.gif

 

Edited by betsy

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13 hours ago, betsy said:

:rolleyes:

Irrelevant!  shrug.gif

 

I AM Glad your seeing religion for what it is....IRRELEVANT. Along with harbourer of pedophiles  and the book of delusion, error, fallacy, falsehood, falsity, hallucination, illusion, misbelief, misconception,myth, old wivesʼ tail

Religion is dying and cant happen fast enough...adieu religion

 
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7 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

I AM Glad your seeing religion for what it is....IRRELEVANT. Along with harbourer of pedophiles  and the book of delusion, error, fallacy, falsehood, falsity, hallucination, illusion, misbelief, misconception,myth, old wivesʼ tail

Religion is dying and cant happen fast enough...adieu religion


 

Triggered?  :lol:

 

For someone who's supposed to be glad......you sound more like.....angry?

 

Anyway.....your message is still irrelevant. shrug.gif

Edited by betsy

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2 hours ago, betsy said:

Triggered?  :lol:

 

For someone who's supposed to be glad......you sound more like.....angry?

 

Anyway.....your message is still irrelevant. shrug.gif

I accept your defeat

 And yet again....Religion needs to be banned

A jury unanimously convicted him of one charge of sexually penetrating a child under 16, and four counts of committing an indecent act on a child under 16.

Sick bastards.....People of the faith are complicit  in these disgusting acts.

Vatican treasurer Cardinal George Pell found guilty of child sex charges

Edited by Kerfuffle

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On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 5:36 AM, betsy said:

after all, isn't the purpose of Satan to take people away from God?

Not to me, but if you mean trying to convince us that we should not idol worship a genocidal son murdering God, then that would be a good thing. No?

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 5:36 AM, betsy said:

Why do you think Jesus had warned us repeatedly about the devil, if we're immune to him

The way I interpret Jesus' preaching, the devil to him was a literal belief in the traditional holy books, literals reading of those myths, organized religion and idol worship, which is what Christians do.

 

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 5:36 AM, betsy said:

Satan has dominion over non-believers because unlike believers,  non-believers don't believe in the Saviour, and they don't believe in the existence of Satan too.  If you don't think something exists, will you prepare for it? 

Non-believers have sure come up with more moral laws than religions have so I hope you are correct.

How have you prepared for Satan's deception and how would you know if her first one was not just to get you to go to where she actually wanted to deceive you to go in the first place? Somewhat like God did with Eve by telling her she should not partake of knowledge when he specifically put Satan in Eden to tempt Eve. 

Regards

DL

 

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Betsy keeps talking about scriptures like they are proof of god and devil....only people that have been brainwashed from their evil cult believe this....Religion has NO hard evidence to back up their lies.....just a bunch of words that mean squat

Betsy asks... Why do you care what Christians believe? its because religion is dangerous...Religion owns untold deaths from religious wars to burning of thousands of women on the stake. and lets not forget the penetrating and sexual acts with thousands of YOUNG innocent children......Religion murdered many scholars because they found that the earth not flat...yes Betsy i bet you have a hard time with that....here is another fact the earth is NOT the center of the solar system.(ouch)...these are a few examples of the atrocities of your murdering cult.....every thing with  religion is about fear and control. 

Fossil records debunk religion and Darwin has gave religion a vicious blow......with modern science coming for the kill and with all this hard irrefutable evidence you still hold some written words as the truth....the old testament does not even mention jesus....just some ridiculous stories in i book the talking snake...made women from a rib....a great flood and ark with 2 of each animal on earth (which noah would have needed a fleet of arks to carry his payload....hell he couldnt even fish for dinner cause he on had 2 worms...You want the real story, watch the new release of Life of Brian..good fun.

Edited by Kerfuffle
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11 hours ago, French Patriot said:

Not to me, but if you mean trying to convince us that we should not idol worship a genocidal son murdering God, then that would be a good thing. No?

 

Not to me.   Because.....your argument comes from ignorance of the Scriptures. 

You don't know the whole story why God had annihilated peoples.   So, why should your ignorant argument be taken into consideration?   Your only desire is to give some sort of "shock" value to it by your crude language (directed to God), in your deliberate attempt to be blasphemous. Nothing new with that, too. 

But I do wonder about the passion!  Why so much passion about Him is coming from you - and a lot of anti-Christian? 

Dangerous?   Nah.    That can't be it.   Perspectives are really topsy-turvy if that's the reason you folks cite why you display such passion.   So many real dangerous stuff around us to channel your passion into.  For someone who obviously doesn't believe - you seem to be going overboard with your response.  This kind of reaction from quite a few anti-Christians is what's so baffling, really.    They can't seem to engage in discussion without going off the handle - like, they suddenly lose it (just look at Kerfuffles' kerfuffle above :lol:  ) -  there's gotta be something behind that.  

 

Your posts are convoluted, too.   Which is also common with anti-Christians I debate with.  Like this one:

 

Quote

The way I interpret Jesus' preaching, the devil to him was a literal belief in the traditional holy books, literals reading of those myths, organized religion and idol worship, which is what Christians do.

 

Lol.   Why wouldn't Christians interpret the devil literally the same way Jesus Christ did when they (Christians) are disciples of Christ!  Isn't that  why they're called CHRISTIANS?    pondering-and-thinking-smiley-emoticon.g Hello?

 

Okay.....I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your posts and engage with them since there's nothing coherent to engage with (based on these few ones that I've bothered with).   Kerfuffle  doesn't make any sense too.   Just look at this:

 

Quote

Betsy keeps talking about scriptures like they are proof of god and devil....only people that have been brainwashed from their evil cult believe this....Religion has NO hard evidence to back up their lies.....just a bunch of words that mean squat

 

Why wouldn't I talk about the Scriptures - isn't that where French Patriot based his topic and OP? facepalm-smiley-emoticon.gif 

 

And if the topic talks about Satan and God- like as if they exist - aren't we supposed to discuss it on that ground?  scratching-head-smiley-emoticon.gif

Talk about a big egg of a doh!

 

 

 

To not make any sense.....to have a meltdown......I tell you, that's  common  among  anti-Christians in forums.  I'm already engaged in that other forum on pretty much the same thing, so there's no  appetite for me to go on this thread.  

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by betsy

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On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:10 AM, Kerfuffle said:

Here is a feeble attempt of Christians trying to sell their lies ..The Creation Museum, located in Petersburg, Kentucky,...they display man living with dinosaurs ...haha...

 

I understand that they are such a laughing stock that they cannot find enough Christians willing to work for them.

There is hope for Christians and their idiotic thinking but I think it is too late to save that vile religion.

Regards

DL

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