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Are China/Islam sustainable?


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7 hours ago, August1991 said:

What is sustainable?

Organizational ideas such as religions/nations are at odds with our DNA, so DNA wins. 

But survivalism itself is not sustainable any more:

we're not starving - too much food is a bigger problem than not enough
nations are more integrated than ever, and war is unaffordable and an anachronism
population is declining

We are going to have to face the existential crisis that we have succeeded as a race; we have graduated beyond being clever apes

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

We are going to have to face the existential crisis that we have succeeded as a race; we have graduated beyond being clever apes

Disagree. Many of those problems can be solved.

War can be made affordable again.

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21 hours ago, August1991 said:

I wonder about this.

The Chinese language/culture has existed for about 5000 years.

The Islam religion, about 1300 years.

Our DNA has existed for much longer.

=====

What is sustainable?

Those places, cultures existed for so long because they are able to defend themselves militarily. Whatever can defend itself is sustainable.

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On 3/28/2019 at 9:43 PM, OftenWrong said:

Those places, cultures existed for so long because they are able to defend themselves militarily. Whatever can defend itself is sustainable.

I'm not certain that Islam or China have existed for so long because of military strength.

[An aside: Abroad in Spain one time, I argued like you with a friend that the West was right because we had strength. I always felt uncomfortable with that argument.]

Islam has existed unchanged in part because the Koran was written at a time when it was possible to maintain a written record. Unlike Hindus, Jews, Christians or Buddhists, Muslims can argue that the Koran is the exact word of God as stated about 1300 years ago. (Admittedly, this is both a blessing and a curse.)

China? The Chinese language has surely changed in the past 5000 years and Chinese culture too. Think only of Confucianism. But certain basic Chinese characters - like the word for number one in English - have roots millenia ago. But unlike the Europeans, the Chinese have a point: no Briton today could identify in any meaningful way with someone alive at the time of Stonehenge. Or a French person alive now with a Carnac stone/monolith. 

=====

Anyway, in my OP,  I was thinking of something else: the US Constitution is a remarkable document. It is almost 250 years old and unlike Chinese culture/language, it is clearly stated. But unlike the Koran, it can be amended.

Edited by August1991
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WestCanMan,

I strongly disagree.

I have no problem with a President Ocasio-Cortez. We have had a President Trump.

The US Constitution can likely survive both - even a civil war.

====

The question is whether the US Constitution will survive longer than the Chinese language or the Orthodox Christian religion or the written-word of God, the Koran.

So far, it has lasted longer than the Soviet Union.

Edited by August1991
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Compared to the Koran and the supposed "word of God" from 1300 years ago, I reckon the 300 year old US Constitution will survive longer,

First, the US Constitution makes no claim to being the "word of God".

Second, the US Constitution can be amended - heck, it was amended at its origin.

====

Maybe I'm wrong.  

Edited by August1991
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The first 10 or so amendments to the US federal constitution were important, set a precedent of change.

Some 100 years later, the 13/14/15 amendments were a remarkable change. It possibly made the US Constitution a true document.

=====

I feel like a law teacher, setting an exam:

To have a civilised society, what is best?

a) a single clear written document, subject to amendment

b) many various documents, subject to opinion  

Edited by August1991
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Posted (edited)
On 6/15/2019 at 7:41 AM, Alex Reese said:

Everything is sustainable and compatible if you have an open mind.

Sustainable?

Think of the British royal family. I'd like to see a DNA test of Queen Elizabeth II - the woman on my money - and, uh, Richard III.

Compatible with what?

====

Nowadays, so many people around the world want to speak English. Why? 

The Beatles? America? Shakespeare?

============

Make no mistake: among the several billion people on this planet, few are learning Chinese as a second language; Arabic, only for prayer.

Far more people want to learn English - a European language.

Edited by August1991
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On 7/2/2020 at 11:24 PM, August1991 said:

Make no mistake: among the several billion people on this planet, few are learning Chinese as a second language; Arabic, only for prayer.

Far more people want to learn English - a European language.

So would you say that's a, or one of the metrics for sustainability? Language and it's relative success?

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On 4/3/2019 at 7:29 AM, GostHacked said:

Are China/Islam Sustainable?  English?

 

 

 

You have to understand exponential growth, uh mathematics.

The guys who wrote the US Constitution knew about Newton.

Politicians like Putin? Xi?  Americans are centuries ahead of Russia/China.

Islam? Gimme a break.

=====

Around the world, some 8 billion people, what is everyone holding in their hand? Why?

An American created this device. 

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1 hour ago, August1991 said:

You have to understand exponential growth, uh mathematics.

The guys who wrote the US Constitution knew about Newton.

Politicians like Putin? Xi?  Americans are centuries ahead of Russia/China.

Islam? Gimme a break.

=====

Around the world, some 8 billion people, what is everyone holding in their hand? Why?

An American created this device. 

In 1917 Finnish inventor Eric Tigerstedt filed a patent for a "pocket-size folding telephone with a very thin carbon microphone". 

 

More like stole it.  

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47 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

In 1917 Finnish inventor Eric Tigerstedt filed a patent for a "pocket-size folding telephone with a very thin carbon microphone". 

 

More like stole it.  

Gimme a break.

=====

Between a waterfall in Labrador and a light in Boston, there is a great distance.

But between a touchscreen with icons, and illiterate people, there is a greater distance.

Canucklehead: Finland? Some Finns maybe. Make no mistake, America made it possible for individuals to do this.

Xi and Putin cannot do this. Trump can't do this.

America is the place where individuals can be free. 

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2 hours ago, August1991 said:

Gimme a break.

=====

Between a waterfall in Labrador and a light in Boston, there is a great distance.

But between a touchscreen with icons, and illiterate people, there is a greater distance.

Canucklehead: Finland? Some Finns maybe. Make no mistake, America made it possible for individuals to do this.

Xi and Putin cannot do this. Trump can't do this.

America is the place where individuals can be free. 

https://historythings.com/the-history-of-the-cellphone/

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/bypass.theweek.com/articles-amp/925896/what-americans-are-finally-learning-about-freedom

True, it is more so than China and Russia, but not to many other parts of the world. 

Even at its inception there was no freedom for non whites.  

 

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