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Brexit from the European Union.

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On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 11:02 PM, Zeitgeist said:

It’s never happened in Canada.  

We came close under the War Measures Act and technically we did during WW2.

Edited by Rue

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On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 4:43 AM, JamesHackerMP said:

What be the effective consequences of a "hard Brexit"?

My only guess would be In the immediate withdrawal, chaos over tarrifs, import taxes and regulations regarding goods made outside the UK.

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Britain has been complacent about its political system and has failed to keep up with advances made in other countries. A written constitution would be a start:

Quote

The UK constitutional order is a mess, an impossible trinity - consultative referendums with parliamentary sovereignty and an uncodified constitution.

If David Cameron's unintended legacy includes a written constitution, it will bring an avalanche of skeletons out of various cupboards, including the status of devolved parliaments and rights of secession, devolution for English regions, the House of Lords, the established status of the Church of England - even the monarchy. 

Quite a bottle you spun there, David.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/colm-mccarthy-camerons-tragic-spin-of-bottle-to-quit-eu-on-undefined-terms-38521249.html

 

 

 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland

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On 9/24/2019 at 4:10 PM, Rue said:

Truthfully it caught me by surprise. They could have gone the other way. Don't get me wrong it is important for democracy but I could have seen the courts refusing to get involved and saying to the politicians to simply call a vote to condemn what he did and throw him out that way. Courts are very reluctant to wade into political manouvers on the floor. This is a new one. and it has very strong implications for future moves by any politician trying to do the same in countries similar to Britain like Canada, Australia, New Zealand.

Fact is the court didn’t refuse to get involved in condemning BoJo and he has lied to the Queen and the country suspending the parliament. The decent thing he can do now is to resign....

Look we can argue the merits of Brexit but if you asked people now who voted Brexit in 2016 that they will face a predicament of a hard Brexit with a Irish back stop you can bet your bottom dollar they will have a different view about the whole Brexit.

it is not a surprise to me at all knowing that BoJo has consistently lied and misled the public. Whether it was his pledge for the £350mil NHS campaign or the prorogation of the parliament...There is lie after lie and now this...

 

 

Edited by kactus

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Johnson says he wants a deal but he hasn’t yet submitted a formal proposal to the EU for consideration, nor has he made any effort to reach out to the other parties at Westminster. No deal looks more likely by the day.  

Edited by SpankyMcFarland

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The EU itself shouldn't have granted this current extension. Britain should have been kicked out in the end of March as origannally planned. 

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This has nothing to do with EU disallowing the current extension and everything to do with lack of decisiveness in UK government of what they actually want. 

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Despite all the noise about the backstop, the new Northern Ireland secretary knows little about Northern Ireland and is not included in a key Brexit committee.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ni-secretary-lacks-clout-in-brexit-debate-38536836.html

While NI voted Remain by a clear margin, the Tories continue to listen to the dinosaurs of the DUP who are in a state of denial regarding the consequences of No Deal for the province. 

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If I were British I would have voted for Brexit. After all, Britain is a major country and they will always be all right. The EU needs them as much as the other way round. Britain has half the rest of the World on its side in form of the Commonwealth. The Brits are going to be all right.

If there a was a referendum here in Finland on seceding from the EU I don't think I would vote for it. We are not Britain.

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On 9/27/2019 at 10:09 AM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Johnson says he wants a deal but he hasn’t yet submitted a formal proposal to the EU for consideration, nor has he made any effort to reach out to the other parties at Westminster. No deal looks more likely by the day.  

Johnson and EU are playing "who blinks first."  At the end, Johnson believes all threats from EU are kind of Y2K threats, and there are not enought mad MP to overthrow him.

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On 10/1/2019 at 10:56 AM, egghead said:

Johnson and EU are playing "who blinks first."  At the end, Johnson believes all threats from EU are kind of Y2K threats, and there are not enought mad MP to overthrow him.

Johnson’s ridiculous last minute offer is no way to conduct such serious negotiations. It very much looks as if he wants the EU to turn these proposals down which it may have to do given the time constraints.

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Quote

 

There will a lot of angry people on Nov 1. Who those people Still remains to be seen but it is inevitable that in three weeks time there will be some hassle.

Edited by -TSS-

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I'm not British so it is a bit hard for me to say how important an ordinary Brit in the British mainland views Northern-Ireland but may I take a guess?Most people don't give a flying fuck about Northern-Ireland and therefore that this Brexit-process is stalling because of Northern-Ireland is all the more annoying.

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7 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

I'm not British so it is a bit hard for me to say how important an ordinary Brit in the British mainland views Northern-Ireland but may I take a guess?Most people don't give a flying fuck about Northern-Ireland and therefore that this Brexit-process is stalling because of Northern-Ireland is all the more annoying.

I wouldn't say that, there are many on the mainland of Ulster descent, my people are from Ulster,  I give a f@ck, and I'm not even a Brit.

 

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So basically Ireland booms and trade between Britain and Europe continues tariff free through Ireland.  Britain, however, can tariff Europe’s good and vice versa.  Perhaps they become fake tariffs because Europe won’t check goods from Ireland (which is Europe).snd Britain won’t check goods from Northern Ireland.  Britain stays in Europe through Ireland.  

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I love that the DUP has them all by the balls, don't yield an inch, stick it to those commie bastards on the mainland.

For God and Ulster.

 

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On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 5:18 AM, SpankyMcFarland said:

 A written constitution would be a start:

 

 

 

A very interesting point that could be debated forever.

I would contend aboriginal communities and animistic cultures have shown like the UK has, that you can pass on laws and traditions using forms other than in writing that are effective.

I did find this which is a good summary of your position and many legal scholars take about having the constitutional laws written:

https://chestofbooks.com/society/law/The-Constitutional-Law-Of-The-United-States/24-So-Called-Natural-Or-Unwritten-Constitutional-Laws-H.html

I would say your position is highly popular today.

May I simply state the unwritten constitutional laws of the UK were very effective in addressing what their latest Prime Minister did the last few weeks and corrected it and their efficiency would not have been enhanced if their principles were in written form:

http://www.slaw.ca/2019/09/24/uk-supreme-court-on-prorogation-the-role-of-unwritten-constitutional-principles/

I think though there is another way to describe what I would argue is the uniqueness of unwritten British constitutional law and that is to say its written and can be found in many sources not just in one document:

"On the other hand, the British Constitution has advanced over a long span of time, emulating the comparative consistency of the British polity. It has never been considered as important to merge the fundamental units of this order in the United Kingdom. The constitutional law of the United Kingdom is an accretion of different decrees, judicial decisions, conventions and treaties which mutually can be called as the British Constitution. Therefore, it will be right to refer to the constitution of Britain as an 'unmodified' structure, instead of an 'unwritten' one. "

see:https://fcansw.org.au/unwritten-constitutional-law-of-the-united-kingdom/

Much of the US constitutional law is unwritten, it only starts with its actual written constitution. A classic example is the determination of abuse of political powers of its President.

 

 

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The shitty rehashed deal was rejected by parliament today, which was probably the plan all along. Now Johnson relies on that the EU won't grant an extension. That means Britain is out on October 31st. An extension is still more likely. That would make Johnson seem very weak with his earlier dead in a ditch-statements.

However, if or when Brexit happens it would only mean that remainers would become rejoiners and the leavers, well, outstayers or something similar but the whole circus would go on.

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On 10/18/2019 at 11:44 PM, -TSS- said:

I'm not British so it is a bit hard for me to say how important an ordinary Brit in the British mainland views Northern-Ireland but may I take a guess?Most people don't give a flying fuck about Northern-Ireland and therefore that this Brexit-process is stalling because of Northern-Ireland is all the more annoying.

Northern Ireland is already semi-detached from the UK. For decades after 1921 it had its own awful provincial government that had to be abolished, and it has been allowed to keep bans on abortion and gay marriage going while the rest of the archipelago has moved on. The two main parties remain hopelessly sectarian - Sinn Fein don’t even turn up for work while the DUP faithful are bible-thumping dinosaurs. Brexiteers would gladly trade NI in if that would bring about their escape from the EU. Young people in NI are showing signs of thinking for themselves but a generation of deluded geezers will have to die off before the province can join the modern world and leave the old tribalism behind. 

Brexit was always going to be disruptive for the island of Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement that brought peace over twenty years ago. The challenge was to minimize the impact and keep as much of the status quo as possible. There are conflicting reports about the effect of BoJo’s deal on NI and RoI. First, we’ll have to wait and see if it ever is accepted by Westminster. 

 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland

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It's all beautiful just desserts for the cult of democracy which thinks voting is more than it actually is.

So you say you want direct democracy?  You want the voice of the people to speak?

Mwahaha, enjoy, should have just left well enough alone.

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A slight majority of the people chose Brexit, but it was a highly conditional Brexit that Europe won’t accept.  The Brits won’t accept the deal that Europe will accept, so there won’t be a Brexit unless Europe decides to stop granting extensions or Britain stops asking for them.   It’s no big deal for Europe to grant endless extensions because doing so keeps Britain in Europe.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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So, not gonna happen on Oct 31st. Johnson wouldn't be blamed for failing to take Britain out as he has been frustrated by a remoaner-Parliament if only he hadn't boasted so loudly and confidently that he was going to do it. Now that it's not happening it makes him look very foolish indeed. 

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