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Brexit from the European Union.

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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well Johnson is determined to let it play out, with or without a deal, really without one because no new deal is being offered and the Parliament rejected the previous deal.  Gutsy, but perhaps foolish.  If they can wring out a deal with the EU of essentially free trade without EU membership, that’s fine.

Which is more or less the sort of thing they'll likely get eventually. But the EU is not going to do anything which makes it easier for them to leave. They will put up every road block they can to encourage the demonstrations and the weak-minded politicians to block a Brexit.

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10 hours ago, Argus said:

Which is more or less the sort of thing they'll likely get eventually. But the EU is not going to do anything which makes it easier for them to leave. They will put up every road block they can to encourage the demonstrations and the weak-minded politicians to block a Brexit.

I believe we will see a Brexit deal. Both side have too much to lose. They are just playing "who will blink first" game.

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Corbyn (remain) invokes the demon of Donald Trump, but it doesn't work.

"A no deal Brexit is really a Trump-deal Brexit, leading to a one-sided United States trade deal that will put us at the mercy of Donald Trump and the biggest American corporations!"

People cheered at the idea.

Corbyn speech backfires as Leave voters welcome his no deal Brexit Trump comparison

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Britain will be fine with or without Brexit, but there could be some heavy economic hits because of Brexit.  I was hearing $17 billion this morning.  That’s not really the issue because the Brits are actually very tough.  It’s a matter of what kind of Britain people want and the opportunities or lack thereof.  

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After losing the vote in parliament Johnson is now practically a lame-duck PM. He carried out his threat and kicked out the Tories who voted against the government making his government now a minority-government. 

His stay at no10 may be very short. The obvious way out would be early election but parliament probably can't agree on that either. That would require 2/3 of votes. Too many MPs are afraid they would be kicked out and they are probably right. 

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53 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

After losing the vote in parliament Johnson is now practically a lame-duck PM. He carried out his threat and kicked out the Tories who voted against the government making his government now a minority-government. 

His stay at no10 may be very short. The obvious way out would be early election but parliament probably can't agree on that either. That would require 2/3 of votes. Too many MPs are afraid they would be kicked out and they are probably right. 

BoJo has always been a lame duck but not  be realised because of his quirky look.... He has made many promises he couldn’t keep and guess what now he is going to blame everything gone wrong on others....

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On 9/1/2019 at 9:17 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Well Johnson is determined to let it play out, with or without a deal, really without one because no new deal is being offered and the Parliament rejected the previous deal.  Gutsy, but perhaps foolish.  If they can wring out a deal with the EU of essentially free trade without EU membership, that’s fine.  It’s essentially NAFTA, which is actually quite boring and less opportunistic than what they had with complete freedom of movement and employment anywhere in the EU.  If the issue is Brussels overreach into national affairs, that should be the fight.  Brexit should just be the real threat that brings radical reform.  Instead it’s likely to result in Brexit, and I don’t see a lot of upside.  

Britain will do just fine without any agreement with the EU/Brussels. Trade between businesses in the EU will still go on despite the globalist EU communists efforts in trying to screw things up. The British parliament is full of traitors to Britain who are trying their hardest to stop Brexit from happening. A majority of Brits want a Brexit. It is those traitors in the British government that is the problem. They want to deny the majority their Brexit. If Brexit does not happen then it will be plain as day to see that what the majority want, well than, they all can just go to hell. Democracy is under attack by the pro globalist British politicians. Globalism means no democracy. Just tyranny by an unelected bunch of globalist communists. :(

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11 hours ago, -TSS- said:

After losing the vote in parliament Johnson is now practically a lame-duck PM. He carried out his threat and kicked out the Tories who voted against the government making his government now a minority-government. 

His stay at no10 may be very short. The obvious way out would be early election but parliament probably can't agree on that either. That would require 2/3 of votes. Too many MPs are afraid they would be kicked out and they are probably right. 

If the majority of the British people won their Brexit referendum than what is the problem here?  All this is just showing us that the majority does not always get their way. A small minority of people usually does these days. It will be the politicians who will dictate as to whether the majority gets their win or not. It would appear as though we the people do not have a say as to how things will get done anymore. We the people are the employees and our bosses are the politicians. There is something really wrong with that picture alright. 

It will be a sad day for Britain if Johnson does lose an election. It will mean that the majority will not get their Brexit and they will then have to accept the fact that the referendum for Brexit was all just one big joke and the referendum was all done for fun and a waste of time and tax dollars. Here in Canada, there is no real democracy anymore. It is just propped up to make it appear as though Canada is a democracy. Our Canadian media has been bought by the leftist liberal Trudeau globalist government. The free press in Canada is no more. No free press, no democracy. 

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10 hours ago, kactus said:

BoJo has always been a lame duck but not  be realised because of his quirky look.... He has made many promises he couldn’t keep and guess what now he is going to blame everything gone wrong on others....

Everything that has gone wrong can be blamed on the others. Johnson just inherited the problems that have been left for him by the anti-Brexit traitors in Britain. It's hard to keep ones promises when your own people in your own party turn traitor on you. Trump knows all about that. It would appear as though the word democracy today has no more meaning anymore. The word democracy might as well be removed from the dictionary. It is taking up space. :(

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What do you think: If the Quebec-referendum 24 years ago had gone the other way would there still today be negotiations on the terms of withdrawal? 

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10 minutes ago, taxme said:

Everything that has gone wrong can be blamed on the others. Johnson just inherited the problems that have been left for him by the anti-Brexit traitors in Britain. It's hard to keep ones promises when your own people in your own party turn traitor on you. Trump knows all about that. It would appear as though the word democracy today has no more meaning anymore. The word democracy might as well be removed from the dictionary. It is taking up space. :(

Far from it....What BoJo has done goes against the principles of democracy by holding the parliament at ransom. His party has always wanted to push for a no deal Brexit and since he didn’t get the vote in parliament yesterday he wants a general election. He created this whole mess because he just wanted to play the general election game before 31st October...

To start with he should have sacked Dominic Cummings for getting him into this terrible mess. The Tory party is one hell of a confused party right now.

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On 9/4/2019 at 4:44 PM, kactus said:

Far from it....What BoJo has done goes against the principles of democracy by holding the parliament at ransom.

Trying to enforce the will of the people as expressed in a referendum goes against the principles of democracy?

On 9/4/2019 at 4:44 PM, kactus said:

His party has always wanted to push for a no deal Brexit

Ah, you can mind read! What an amazing talent!

It seems to me his party has really only ever said that if you're not prepared to leave without a deal then the EU will never give you one. And so far they've been proved completely correct.

On 9/4/2019 at 4:44 PM, kactus said:

and since he didn’t get the vote in parliament yesterday he wants a general election.

Oh I see. He's going against the principles of democracy by asking for an election? Okay, got it now. I guess.

 

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

Trying to enforce the will of the people as expressed in a referendum goes against the principles of democracy?

Read again...You are deliberately changing my words. My post clearly referenced parliament being held at ransom and nothing nothing about "the will of people". And yes trying to suspend the parliament for 6 weeks prior 31st October deadline is committing an offence against the democratic values. This action by BoJo has prevented the parliament from holding the government to account at the time of national crisis.  

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/sep/03/johnson-suspend-parliament-before-asking-queen-court-hears

 
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Ah, you can mind read! What an amazing talent!

It seems to me his party has really only ever said that if you're not prepared to leave without a deal then the EU will never give you one. And so far they've been proved completely correct.

The parliament has voted AGAINST a no deal Brexit. Despite his rhetorics BoJo does not have a clear agenda on Irish Back Stop.

 

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Oh I see. He's going against the principles of democracy by asking for an election? Okay, got it now. I guess.

BoJo has asked for a General Election because he was defeated in the parliament.

21 of his own Tory MP's voted against him and were sacked including Churchill's grandson and the heavy weights Kenneth Clarke... Shifting the General Election before 31st October was a political move by BoJo that will put any government at a precarious position to negotiate with Europe. This is why no other party including Labour is keen to form a government  before 31st October. 

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11 hours ago, kactus said:

Read again...You are deliberately changing my words. My post clearly referenced parliament being held at ransom

Really? What's the ransom?

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and nothing nothing about "the will of people".

Oh, pardon me. Here you were talking about democracy and somehow I thought that would require following the will of the people.

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And yes trying to suspend the parliament for 6 weeks prior 31st October deadline is committing an offence against the democratic values.

Really? What if parliament is refusing to carry out the democratically expressed will of the people?

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The parliament has voted AGAINST a no deal Brexit.

Too bad for parliament. They also voted to leave on Oct 31st. They did not set any terms for that.

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BoJo has asked for a General Election because he was defeated in the parliament.

How totally undemocratic of him!

21 of his own Tory MP's voted against him and were sacked including Churchill's grandson and the heavy weights Kenneth Clarke... 

Good riddance to bad rubbish, as they say. When you run on a platform of having a referendum and obeying whatever that referendum decides, then refuse to do so I'd think the party SHOULD throw you out.

 

 

 

Edited by Argus

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On 4/12/2019 at 11:01 PM, OftenWrong said:

Brexit is not a financial advantage for the banks, therefore there will be no Brexit.

They already voted out the "No Deal" option, so there will be no crashing out of the EU. That means there has to be a deal. No deal, no Brexit. Now MP's can do what they like to do best- nothing.

It has become a sad day for the majority of the British people who voted for and appear to now have lost their Brexit exit from the unelected Brussels EU so called globalists. They are now going to be denied their Brexit exit. The traitorous British politicians and the EU have won their battle against Brexit. But just like in Canada, there is no democracy in Canada or Britain anymore. A tiny minority of globalist elite rulers now rules Britain and Canada and pretty much the rest of the world under a program of globalist global tyranny. This should show everyone interested in democracy that democracy is just a word. It has no real meaning anymore. Even the globalist politician in Britain do not want Johnson to call an election. They are afraid that they might lose again. The globalist international banksters will always survive because they are the ones that create the money that we use every day. They can print as much money as they want to try and control and defeat democracy anywhere in the world. Britain is loaded with CCTV cameras everywhere. What kind of freedom is that? One is watched everywhere they pretty much go. That is exactly what China has also. And do not think that more cameras like the CCTV ones in Britain and China are not coming to Canada also. Smile!! Try not to scratch yourself between your legs anywhere, eh? :D 

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28 minutes ago, taxme said:

The traitorous British politicians and the EU have won their battle against Brexit.

I wouldn't be surprised if a little payola made its way into the pockets of some British MP's, paid in Euros...

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This is all to the good, Westminster Parliamentary Supremacy in action as designed.

Too bad we don't have many descendants of Churchill to stand up to the dingbat Post National State Ottawa Emperors of Canader..

 

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5 hours ago, Argus said:

Really? What's the ransom?

Oh, pardon me. Here you were talking about democracy and somehow I thought that would require following the will of the people.

Really? What if parliament is refusing to carry out the democratically expressed will of the people?

The 52% who voted Brexit in 2016 didn't know they will be presented a "no deal" on a plate by BoJo...The very fact that he has suspended the parliament to not stop him with his no deal scenario on 31st is undemocratic.

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Too bad for parliament. They also voted to leave on Oct 31st. They did not set any terms for that.

How totally undemocratic of him!

 

What are you talking about? The parliament has consistently voted AGAINST a no deal on Oct 31st. What terms is the parliament meant to set?

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Good riddance to bad rubbish, as they say. When you run on a platform of having a referendum and obeying whatever that referendum decides, then refuse to do so I'd think the party SHOULD throw you out.

Boris's failure to deliver Brexit and win the support even from his own party clearly shows that the current government is in disarray. I reiterate people who voted Brexit did not expect a no deal as Boris is pushing in with that agenda on Oct 31st...

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I don't think anybody thinks the Tories have been very good ever since the referendum, quite on the contrary, but yet they are still ahead in the polls and that is telling something. 

Namely, people prefer even this incompetent bunch to a Corbyn-government. If Labour were committed to Brexit and had a new Tony Blair as their leader they would be wiping the floor with the Tories. 

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There is no credible opposition to Tories despite the bismal performance of BoJo in the house of commons.

Jeremy Corbyn with all the issues around anti semitism in his party and lack of credibility is not going make it. Furthermore, the prospects of a General Election with no deal by 15th October makes it hard for the leader of the opposition to join the race. A bit of a catch 22...

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Here are some of Margaret Thatcher’s thoughts on a previous ‘EU’ referendum:

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Would the right hon. Gentleman wish to put capital punishment to the test of a referendum? Of course he would not, because he is prepared to choose the cases on which he consults the people, according to the convenience of the Government. Perhaps the late Lord Attlee was right when he said that the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues.

The treaty has been in operation for over two years. I know of no country in the Western World in which a referendum has been used to override a treaty obligation which had been through all its parliamentary stages and had been in operation for two years. Such a step would have a damaging effect on Britain's standing in the world.

We do not even know what the status of the referendum decision is. The right hon. Gentleman's speech did not exactly clarify the position. It is said that the referendum is advisory or consultative. I believe that if there is a high poll and a clear majority, the result will in fact be binding on Parliament, whatever one may say in law about parliamentary sovereignty. I cannot envisage that a Parliament, whatever individual Members might have thought, if there were a clear vote against— [Interruption.] It is not advisory or consultative in the event of a clear result. It would be binding on everyone. [HON. MEMBERS: "No. "] It would bind and fetter parliamentary sovereignty in practice.

But if there were a low poll, and an indecisive result, the question would arise whether the British people had genuinely given their verdict by their vote. The Government might regard themselves as bound, but the result could not fetter the decision of Parliament. The uncertainty would be likely to be increased and not ended. If the decision were taken to come out on a low poll, it would be possible to argue that a further referendum should be taken when the revised terms of a free trade area were considered and had been through the House. I am sure that one side or the other would find a method to argue for a second referendum in the event of a low poll, and for not accepting the result. We could get into a difficult position by having embarked upon this first referendum without fully considering the consequences.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1975/mar/11/eec-membership-referendum

 

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Full scale fear mongering going on in the British remainstream media. A no deal Brexit would mean shortage of food, shortage of medicine, shortage of fuel. 

It will be interesting 7 weeks ahead. If Britain is still in the EU on Nov 1st Johnson may as well go. 

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I think Britain will still be in the EU come January as Parliament won't support a no-deal Brexit.  This is starting to look like a neverendum a la Quebec.  Lucky them...

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On 9/9/2019 at 8:07 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Here are some of Margaret Thatcher’s thoughts on a previous ‘EU’ referendum:

This was not the EU debate, this was the EEC, UKIP doesn't actually oppose the EEC, in fact the Brexit is basically a return to the EEC.

The Baroness Thatcher was a Euroskeptic, make no mistake, in fact she is the Mother of UKIP

 

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