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4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

What would you have Trump supporters do....abandon him for what/who ?  Certainly not Biden.

Hell, even the National Organization for Women (NOW) stood by Bill Clinton despite all his affairs and assaults on women.

To claim that but dismiss them as liars doesn't work well for trumps image.  Those tactics work well in middle east dictatorships.  

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1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

To claim that but dismiss them as liars doesn't work well for trumps image.  Those tactics work well in middle east dictatorships.  

 

It works in western "democracies" too....just part of the game.

Trump's image has already been battered, sometimes purposely so to garner more media attention.   That's how he kicked GOP and Hillary Clinton ass.

It works for Trump....any questions ?

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2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It works in western "democracies" too....just part of the game.

Trump's image has already been battered, sometimes purposely so to garner more media attention.   That's how he kicked GOP and Hillary Clinton ass.

It works for Trump....any questions ?

Ah yes the old "there's no such thing as bad publicity" scheme.  

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/americans-are-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/

Sounds good to me.  

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Just now, Cannucklehead said:

Ah yes the old "there's no such thing as bad publicity" scheme. 

 

Even the most flipped-out Trump hater has to admit how he successfully gained the presidency and made U.S. political history with such tactics.   He beat his rivals using less money because of free mainstream and digital media, while Clinton blew her money on TV and print....and lost.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Even the most flipped-out Trump hater has to admit how he successfully gained the presidency and made U.S. political history with such tactics.   He beat his rivals using less money because of free mainstream and digital media, while Clinton blew her money on TV and print....and lost.

 

 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/2020-election/donald-trump-2020-campaign-nearly-broke-168549?amp

 

Was it that that did it or something (or someone) else?  

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54 minutes ago, Shady said:

Why?  You don’t care that President Xi owns Biden’s ass.

Explain to me again about why Trump cancelled the sanctions on ZTE, would you? Explain to me how that had nothing to do with China providing a billion dollars in financing for a Trump resort in Indonesia.

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55 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

What would you have Trump supporters do....abandon him for what/who ?  Certainly not Biden.

ANYONE! I'd even take Mike (mommy save me from the women!) Pence at this point. Jeb Bush would have made a fine president. He's smarter than his brother. There are plenty of conservatives in the  US to choose from that are smarter, more honest and more competent than Trump. Virtually any of them would be a vast improvement. If the Republicans in the Senate had put even a little effort into reigning Trump in they might have been able to salvage something from this administration.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

ANYONE! I'd even take Mike (mommy save me from the women!) Pence at this point. Jeb Bush would have made a fine president. He's smarter than his brother. There are plenty of conservatives in the  US to choose from that are smarter, more honest and more competent than Trump. Virtually any of them would be a vast improvement. If the Republicans in the Senate had put even a little effort into reigning Trump in they might have been able to salvage something from this administration.

 

Sorry, but that is not how this game is played, not even for Democrats.  Joe Biden is hardly the best available candidate either...far from it.

If it makes you feel any better (???), millions of American voters won't be voting for Trump, will vote third party, or won't vote at all.   It is just another U.S. election.

That ABC crap (strategic voting) might work in Canada, but it is meaningless in U.S. federal elections.

 

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57 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yep.  They lie about the same kind of stuff.  And?  You pull your hair out for one but ignore and make excuses for the other.

It's not even the lies that bug me about Trump, it's the raw stupidity and incompetence.  I actually supported the idea of a border wall. But he ignored it until the Democrats got control of the House. He whined about illegal immigration, but he did nothing to change the laws which make it almost impossible to do anything about it. He shows virtually no interest in world security issues, or American for that matter, is clueless in how to pressure the Chinese, sucks up to dictators, bullies allies, hugely mishandled Covid out of pure ego and stupidity, and has no clue about how to get legislation passed. Or even how to write it. He's surrounded himself with grifters and yes-men, and can't even get his people confirmed by a senate the Rpublicans control.

 

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sorry, but that is not how this game is played, not even for Democrats.  Joe Biden is hardly the best available candidate either...far from it.

Yeah, yeah, the system sucks. I said years ago the Democrats could sweep back to power by just finding a decent candidate, someone who was moderate, well-spoken, ex-military, a stand up guy who would reassure the center and right. I didn't add 'and isn't as old as Methuselah' because I didn't think that needed to be said. And instead the Democrats threw up a platoon of identity politics loons in the nomination and made Biden the only sane one available. It's eerie how that resembled the 2016 Republican nomination, with its parade of idiots and nut jobs. The only sane one there was Bush, but somehow Trump won, probably because there were too many others who hung on too long and split the sane vote.

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56 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It works in western "democracies" too....just part of the game.

Trump's image has already been battered, sometimes purposely so to garner more media attention.   That's how he kicked GOP and Hillary Clinton ass.

It works for Trump....any questions ?

Trump's success has as much to do with the way the Democrats repulse so many Americans with their identity politics and political correctness than Trump's idiotic blowhard outrages.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

Yeah, yeah, the system sucks. I said years ago the Democrats could sweep back to power by just finding a decent candidate, someone who was moderate, well-spoken, ex-military, a stand up guy who would reassure the center and right. I didn't add 'and isn't as old as Methuselah' because I didn't think that needed to be said. And instead the Democrats threw up a platoon of identity politics loons in the nomination and made Biden the only sane one available. It's eerie how that resembled the 2016 Republican nomination, with its parade of idiots and nut jobs. The only sane one there was Bush, but somehow Trump won, probably because there were too many others who hung on too long and split the sane vote.

 

Jeb Bush lost because he was "low energy", and could not compete with Trump's "high energy".   Primary voters responded to Trump with far more excitement because he was speaking their language, language that was forbidden from previous candidates.

Your expectations are way out of sync with political and popular reality.   There are no more "statesman" (or woman) with gravitas, and it wouldn't matter even if there were.

Mitt Romney tried....and lost.

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5 minutes ago, Argus said:

Yeah, yeah, the system sucks. I said years ago the Democrats could sweep back to power by just finding a decent candidate, someone who was moderate, well-spoken, ex-military, a stand up guy who would reassure the center and right. I didn't add 'and isn't as old as Methuselah' because I didn't think that needed to be said. And instead the Democrats threw up a platoon of identity politics loons in the nomination and made Biden the only sane one available. It's eerie how that resembled the 2016 Republican nomination, with its parade of idiots and nut jobs. The only sane one there was Bush, but somehow Trump won, probably because there were too many others who hung on too long and split the sane vote.

Bush was the wrong candidate for the gop because their focus was to be "anti establishment" 

 

So instead they chose a candidate who was born into privilege and had a semi celebrity status.  :blink:

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1 hour ago, Shady said:

No.  It’s just all about policy with me.

Policy. What policy has Trump managed to successfully implement? I mean which won't be instantly reversed when he gets booted out? Keeping immigration down? Big deal. Illegal immigration is still huge because he never bothered to change the laws which require years of appeals before someone is deported. Six months of demonstrations and riots and he hasn't been able to do a thing about those either. China and Russia are still completely free to conduct espionage and mass hacking attacks in the US and threaten and influence US corporations while he does nothing.  His own people, now ex members of his administration, repeatedly say he has no interest, care or concern for US security issues. He waited two years before even starting to think about how to get his wall built, waited until the Democrats took back the house. His administration is spending worse than the most profligate Democratic administration in history. He picks pointless fights with allies over minor trade issues, often making them up but still hasn't managed to do a thing about China violating international trade rules. He doesn't actually know how to DO anything. Other than tweet.

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4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Jeb Bush lost because he was "low energy", and could not compete with Trump's "high energy".   Primary voters responded to Trump with far more excitement because he was speaking their language, language that was forbidden from previous candidates.

Your expectations are way out of sync with political and popular reality.   There are no more "statesman" (or woman) with gravitas, and it wouldn't matter even if there were.

Mitt Romney tried....and lost.

And are you content with a system which puts people like Trump into office instead of Romney or Bush?

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4 minutes ago, Argus said:

Trump's success has as much to do with the way the Democrats repulse so many Americans with their identity politics and political correctness than Trump's idiotic blowhard outrages.

 

Either way, it is delusional to think that Trump (and his supporters) would suddenly abandon the path that got them the presidency because he won't wear a mask.   Trump will win or lose doing exactly what he has done in the past.    <Cue Frank Sinatra -  "My Way" >

He will still get well north of 50,000,000 votes.

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1 minute ago, Argus said:

And are you content with a system which puts people like Trump into office instead of Romney or Bush?

 

Yes...for the very reason that Donald Trump was able to break that system and become president.   It really isn't about Trump at all...he is just a symptom of conditions that predate him by decades.

Donald Trump was elected to break things, and he has done exactly that.

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2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...for the very reason that Donald Trump was able to break that system and become president.   It really isn't about Trump at all...he is just a symptom of conditions that predate him by decades.

Donald Trump was elected to break things, and he has done exactly that.

What has he broken? Other than America?

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8 minutes ago, Argus said:

What has he broken? Other than America?

 

He has broken the things that his supporters wanted broken....illegals...NAFTA...TPP....Supreme Court....Paris Agreement....Iran....NATO deadbeats....ISIS....ACA individual mandate....taxes...etc., etc.

Even the most ardent Trump haters agree that he is right about some things (e.g. NATO spending).

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2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

He has broken the things that his supporters wanted broken....illegals...NAFTA....Supreme Court....Paris Agreement....Iran....NATO deadbeats....ISIS....ACA individual mandate....taxes...etc., etc.

Even the most ardent Trump haters agree that he is right about some things (e.g. NATO spending).

NATO are still deadbeats. NAFTA was barely changed. Illegals continue to flood in. Taxes are lower but the debt and deficit are skyrocketing. Iran is still free to develop nukes - as is North Korea. And taking away health care from poor people was not what he was supposed to have gotten elected for. Where his his fantastic new health care system that will be cheaper and better?

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10 minutes ago, Argus said:

NATO are still deadbeats. NAFTA was barely changed. Illegals continue to flood in. Taxes are lower but the debt and deficit are skyrocketing. Iran is still free to develop nukes - as is North Korea. And taking away health care from poor people was not what he was supposed to have gotten elected for. Where his his fantastic new health care system that will be cheaper and better?

 

You still don't understand...Trump's continuing appeal is to keep striving for those objectives, no matter what the degree of success has been..and there has been some success.   The ACA individual mandate was a new IRS tax that is now gone regardless of poor people health care insurance.   There are fewer missiles flying over Japan now than before.  The EU is increasing defence spending.   The Supreme Court will soon be 6-3 for conservatives.   Dumping and transshipments by Canada and Mexico have been reduced.

Trump is hardly the first president to run massive deficits.

We get it...YOU HATE TRUMP....but nobody cares that you hate Trump....it doesn't matter in this game.

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1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

FT_19.06.12_5FactsIllegalImmigration_US-

Trump hasn't done much about illegals despite his stupid wall promises.  

And calling people deadbeats and putting stupid tarriffs on them doesn't really make any hope of improvement.  

So it looks like it peaked during the Bush administration, and has been falling since then. Not falling that much, though. I would speculate that NAFTA, and the flood of companies setting up shop in Mexico, provided decent jobs and a reason for Mexicans to stay home. Much of the illegals now are coming from further south. It's a pity the Trump administration didn't use the new NAFTA talks as a way to encourage and incentivise US companies in China to move to Mexico instead. That would have been a  win-win for the US.

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3 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

 

Trump hasn't done much about illegals despite his stupid wall promises.  

And calling people deadbeats and putting stupid tarriffs on them doesn't really make any hope of improvement.  

 

Too bad...it is exactly that kind of language that was lacking before Trump, even though Bush and Obama said the same thing.   If Canada gets so butt hurt because Trump won't continue the status quo, then do something about it instead of just whining.   Stop being so goddamn dependent on what American presidents say or do.

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