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The Death of Community and the Rise of Individualism

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An outstanding post by Traversing Tradition, a  online muslim publication.

Sheds light on how liberalism, individualism, and capitalism.

Contribute to the fracturing of the communal unit.

The Death of Community and the Rise of Individualism 

 https://traversingtradition.com/2018/07/16/the-death-of-community-and-the-rise-of-individualism/#                      

                                   

Edited by Saudi Monitor

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An interesting read and I agree that community is an important part of human experience.  

Religion has been a primary driver of community throughout history, and still is in many parts of the world.  It is also a primary driver of an "us vs. them" mentality (along with oppression of women and people who are not heterosexual.)

 In Western society, community is often found through associating with people with whom you have commonality, instead of through forced conformation to a set of imposed rules of behavior, aka religion.  That means that my community can encompass the woman in a hijab or a bikini, as long they are both as equally willing to accept those who are "different". 

I think the writer fails to fully consider how other people may view community, and how their view may differ from his.

Edited by dialamah
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The essay doesn't provide a hard link between liberalism and the decline of community.  It doesn't compare to socialism or communism.   I would say that innate forces within people, like tribalism, are diminished by 'systems' and less intuitive social structures being introduced, such as 'justice' and 'economy'.  But it's a trade-off.  We'd all feel more connected in a tribe and that would be great until it's time again to war with the tribe next door.

 

It's good to revisit these ideas from time to time though.

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On 5/22/2019 at 5:43 AM, Michael Hardner said:

The essay doesn't provide a hard link between liberalism and the decline of community.  It doesn't compare to socialism or communism.   I would say that innate forces within people, like tribalism, are diminished by 'systems' and less intuitive social structures being introduced, such as 'justice' and 'economy'.  But it's a trade-off.  We'd all feel more connected in a tribe and that would be great until it's time again to war with the tribe next door.

 

It's good to revisit these ideas from time to time though.

I don't think it matters anymore, it appears that leftism has taken hold, post enlightenment logic and reason gone with it.  Bernie Sander is now considered center left. Classic liberalism is dying and its not due to anything from the right. You're seeing an increase in full blown annarcho communist from members of the left. I don't remember a time when supporting a system that lead to the deaths and suffering of millions were considered "main stream". The only thing worse than nazis were communist in my opinion. Yet you see members on the left proudly displaying shirts with che guevara and other marxist icon. 

Edited by paxamericana

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6 hours ago, paxamericana said:

I don't think it matters anymore, it appears that leftism has taken hold, post enlightenment logic and reason gone with it. 

'Leftism has taken hold' is the kind of thing that right-wing people repeat over and over again to convince people to keep following them.  Here's some of the things that show the left has NOT taken hold:

-Corporate power increases, more multinational power, lower taxes

-Nationalization of industry no longer happens, in fact nations in financial trouble are required to privatize

-The death of socialism as an economic strategy for most of the worlt

Here's where you switch gears, drop your argument and start arguing that these things are a good idea.  Whether or not they are is beside the point: the left hasn't 'taken hold' and acting like Ronald Reagan's parrot won't make it so.

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9 hours ago, paxamericana said:

...Yet you see members on the left proudly displaying shirts with che guevara and other marxist icon. 

 

It is true that cultural Marxism is thriving, no longer a quaint notion from Columbia University elites.

Now that media has been democratized, the left is attempting to shut down the marketplace for ideas and those who would protect free speech rights.

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10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Here's where you switch gears, drop your argument and start arguing that these things are a good idea.  Whether or not they are is beside the point: the left hasn't 'taken hold' and acting like Ronald Reagan's parrot won't make it so.

So what you're saying is we need to adopt socialism? If so then that's exactly inline with the policies Bernie Sanders and most of the progressive democrats are running. So tell me Michael, where are all the classic liberal you speak of left in the democratic party? 

Because I can tell you having recently graduated, that the universities are overran with leftist ideology. How far do you think that will manifest it self in the 2020 election with people demanding free stuff from the entitlement generation. 

Edited by paxamericana

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13 hours ago, paxamericana said:

1. So what you're saying is we need to adopt socialism? If so then that's exactly inline with the policies Bernie Sanders and most of the progressive democrats are running.

2. So tell me Michael, where are all the classic liberal you speak of left in the democratic party? 

3. Because I can tell you having recently graduated, that the universities are overran with leftist ideology.

4. How far do you think that will manifest it self in the 2020 election with people demanding free stuff from the entitlement generation. 

1. You say 'taken hold'.  A 2nd place gadfly loser has not taken hold of anything.  Talk to me when leftish policies are in place.

2. Winning primaries, leading the polls...

3. As ever.  I went to school in similar situations, and the neoliberals were rising.

4. With Trump or Biden as president.  Again you said taken hold.  Words matter.

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The original article is a couched reference to justifying Muslim extremist ideology over progressive Muslims who believe they should be allowed to have a more individualistic say in their approach to life and religion because the latter is considered corrupt and a Western virus further considered a threat to Islam.

I support progressive Muslims seeking to liberate their people from oppressive extremists who use the power of a collective of like minded followers  to control the way their fellow Muslims  should interpret the Koran or live life.

I would contend Individualism and collectivism are Yin and Yang. Too much of either causes imbalance and negative consequences.

Me personally I believe God is an abstract concept  and is an energy that we can connect and get glimpses of  when we witness it it create for the sake of sharing and giving positively..

Myself, I believe religions are the result of humans  who tried to create rules to prevent us from killing each other and giving in to our primal instincts and then went further to be used by individuals to control us using peer group pressure.

I would argue I am no one's God but my own. If my humility and failures can be turned into positive lessons and  I  or maybe someone else  gains strength from that to be positive,  then good, but life proceeded me and proceeds me and neither I nor anyone claiming to speak for God has the right to claim we are an authority on it and tell others what they must believe-they have to decide on an individual and intimate level with their own selves.. We are all  at our best  just humble witnesses of the endless potential of creation if we choose to be just like we can choose to be agents of destruction and negation.

The very same religious words can be used as a healing device or  weapon to injure or kill. How we use the words is what determines its context and meaning not the words themselves.

I have seen what some call God not in men with beards screaming or pointing fingers but in the movement of air, water, leaves, birds flying, animals in the wild, the sounds and tones of  music in instruments and voice , certain smells from plants, kids laughing, people crying. I don't much need a prayer myself or a man with a beard  to show me that. I got nothing against men with beards and will help them help others, but I worship nothing but appreciate everything. Worship to me is a wors of fear. I can't imagine in my reality any creative energy source demanding I worship it. It would be far beyond such a need which is a human need I believe we project onto what we think it is along with other human characteristics because we don't really know how to define it.

Hell I would say you don't need to define it. You just need sometimes to get glimpses of it by feeling it through doing something that helps someone or something else simply for the sake of helping them. That's all you need to see glimpses of it I think. To hell with getting on one's knees and getting caught up in obsessive compulsive rituals triggered by anxiety and fear.

 

 

Edited by Rue
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There is only one collective that I will submit to willingly, and that is the Declaration of Independence preamble and associated light of civilization itself.

Be strong, be of good courage, God bless America, long live the republic.

Otherwise, better dead than Red, so nuke the f**king Commies into the stone age come the breach.

If the Wahhab would like to go that way too, that can be arranged.

Thank goodness for Dr. Teller and his wonderful hydrogen bomb.

Edited by Dougie93

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You have a way with words Dougie. You remind me of Slim Pickens riding that bomb at the end of Dr. Strangelove.  Curtis Lemay the late US Air Force General would have loved you. I dunno Dougie.  I'd prefer to have a beer with you other than fling hydrogen bombs. Who knows maybe MH could convince you to try a Long Island Tea.  I know people like you. They can actually drink Rye and like it. For fuck's sakes Dougie it has to have some malt in it and some woody flavour.  Man you need some  PEI Juice. Fermented potatoes man straight from the bottom of the plastic tub. That will make you sing Oh Canada in both versions with "in all of us command".

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19 minutes ago, Rue said:

You have a way with words Dougie. You remind me of Slim Pickens riding that bomb at the end of Dr. Strangelove.  Curtis Lemay the late US Air Force General would have loved you. I dunno Dougie.  I'd prefer to have a beer with you other than fling hydrogen bombs. Who knows maybe MH could convince you to try a Long Island Tea.  I know people like you. They can actually drink Rye and like it. For fuck's sakes Dougie it has to have some malt in it and some woody flavour.  Man you need some  PEI Juice. Fermented potatoes man straight from the bottom of the plastic tub. That will make you sing Oh Canada in both versions with "in all of us command".

I don't like Rye, too sickly sweet, I prefer Bourbon or Scotch, neat.

Curtis LeMay was a great American and one of my personal heroes.   He simply knew that peace through strength was the only way to stave off a thermonuclear exchange and he understood that the impulse to make war a humanitarian exercise to reduce the destruction actually had the opposite effect, because it simply prolongs wars and far more people die from wars without end  than they do from decisive action to end the war as quickly as possible.

 

 

Edited by Dougie93

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