Jump to content
Political Discussion Forums
Argus

Native inquiry an orgy of progressive guilt-mongering

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, jacee said:

I doubt that "most" Canadians feel that way right now: Our unemployment rate is the lowest since the glory days of employment in 1976. There will always be pockets that differ, perhaps Albertans are feeling the pinch of the world moving away from fossil fuels, but they're innovative and resilient, they'll find a new and better focus. But perhaps precariously skilled and employed people will always feel unsettled, and I'm not sure what we do about that. 

My boss just gave me a 10% raise. That's on top of the 15% I asked for a couple of years ago.  Fishing for a living paid off in the end.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

But closer to home....it results in people like Justin Trudeau.

Nah. He's no innovator. Just more of the cute mushy middle that Canadians prefer.  Lol 

Edited by jacee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Mostly meaningless rhetoric.  Lip service, including polishing silver, has nothing to do with labour, living standards, and fairness.  Much of your plea is for a transfer of income from earners to non-earners, which is unfair and will only breed contempt in the long-run, no matter how much you try to rewrite history with pretty narratives about a single pure people who owned everything and shared it communally.  Thankfully knowledge is power and we can all conduct research and draw sensible conclusions.

The "transfer of income", revenues from use of the land, went from Indigenous Trust Funds to Canada's General Revenues for 150 years. There is still some just "lip service" from our governments about more equitable revenue-sharing, but there is also some real movement to improvement, as in the Impact-Benefit Agreements you posted earlier. 

Anybody mouthing stupidity like "from earners to non-earners" just chooses to disrespect Canada's reality, likely for personal gain - eg, to manipulate precarious people into fearing the Indigenous 'other', keep them down and scared and angry at 'somebody else', so they don't figure out that it is really the bloodsucking corporate predators cleaning out their pockets, just the same as they've done to Indigenous Peoples.   Lol

Quote

In terms of the economy, the stats speak for themselves.  The unemployment rate is historically low and never has employment in modern industrial society been more precarious or housing less affordable. Millennials have less than the previous two or three generations and are giving up on home ownership.  The contempt for labour is becoming more obvious as greater work is no longer translating to better living standards.  Some are deciding that gaming the system pays better than hard work.

You misunderstood: UNemployment is low, meaning Employment is high.

And among millennials, Self-employment is increasing. Their entrepreneurial spirit is evident and welcome. But self-employment is often a roller-coaster ride, so we can expect to hear continuing complaining but their prospects in the long run may be quite good. Employment in Public Service was more the norm for Baby Boomers, providing the comfortable upbringing that millenials are now missing. But the way to real riches is via self-employment, owning a business, so it will be interesting to see how millennials make out over the longer term.

Quote

Of course people can only be pushed so far, resulting in people like Trump on the right and AOC on the left.

Trump is a predator (and a white supremacist) of course, fanning fear of 'the other', posing himself as 'the saviour' ... always for personal gain, ego or otherwise. They say 'you have to hit bottom ...' and I'd say the US is there. Lol 

AOC seems a very sensible person, well-intentioned. We'll see how that holds up. 

In Canada, the only one who stands out is Elizabeth May, both sensible and innovative at the same time.

Quote

Sensible management is under threat at a time when we have more data to drive sensible decision making than ever.  The irony!

No idea what you're getting at here. Maybe an example would clarify?

But again, Elizabeth May seems a good model for sensible, data-driven decision-making.

I'm very impressed, for example, with the Greens common-sense "Mission Possible' plan to ... 

12 - Complete a national building retrofit

Create millions of new, well-paying jobs in the trades by retrofitting every building in Canada – residential, commercial, and institutional – to be carbon neutral by 2030.

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/mission-possible

We're doing fairly well with residential, conserving energy by sealing our houses, etc. But 41% of Canada's GHG emissions come from 'large facilities', manufacturing, resource extraction, etc., a good place to start.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/environmental-indicators/greenhouse-gas-emissions/large-facilities.html

Edited by jacee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/26/2019 at 12:03 PM, jacee said:

The "transfer of income", revenues from use of the land, went from Indigenous Trust Funds to Canada's General Revenues for 150 years. There is still some just "lip service" from our governments about more equitable revenue-sharing, but there is also some real movement to improvement, as in the Impact-Benefit Agreements you posted earlier. 

Anybody mouthing stupidity like "from earners to non-earners" just chooses to disrespect Canada's reality, likely for personal gain - eg, to manipulate precarious people into fearing the Indigenous 'other', keep them down and scared and angry at 'somebody else', so they don't figure out that it is really the bloodsucking corporate predators cleaning out their pockets, just the same as they've done to Indigenous Peoples.   Lol

You misunderstood: UNemployment is low, meaning Employment is high.

And among millennials, Self-employment is increasing. Their entrepreneurial spirit is evident and welcome. But self-employment is often a roller-coaster ride, so we can expect to hear continuing complaining but their prospects in the long run may be quite good. Employment in Public Service was more the norm for Baby Boomers, providing the comfortable upbringing that millenials are now missing. But the way to real riches is via self-employment, owning a business, so it will be interesting to see how millennials make out over the longer term.

Trump is a predator (and a white supremacist) of course, fanning fear of 'the other', posing himself as 'the saviour' ... always for personal gain, ego or otherwise. They say 'you have to hit bottom ...' and I'd say the US is there. Lol 

AOC seems a very sensible person, well-intentioned. We'll see how that holds up. 

In Canada, the only one who stands out is Elizabeth May, both sensible and innovative at the same time.

No idea what you're getting at here. Maybe an example would clarify?

But again, Elizabeth May seems a good model for sensible, data-driven decision-making.

I'm very impressed, for example, with the Greens common-sense "Mission Possible' plan to ... 

12 - Complete a national building retrofit

Create millions of new, well-paying jobs in the trades by retrofitting every building in Canada – residential, commercial, and institutional – to be carbon neutral by 2030.

https://www.greenparty.ca/en/mission-possible

We're doing fairly well with residential, conserving energy by sealing our houses, etc. But 41% of Canada's GHG emissions come from 'large facilities', manufacturing, resource extraction, etc., a good place to start.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/environmental-indicators/greenhouse-gas-emissions/large-facilities.html

"We must, as a community of nations, ensure that global average temperature does not rise more than 1.5 degrees C over pre-Industrial Revolution levels."

Laudable goal.  It will be interesting to see how this will be achievable considering the utter lack of interest on the part of some of the world's biggest polluters - because without them onside nothing will be achieved. Canada can spend billions going to a green economy losings thousands and thousands of jobs in the process as we watch the temperatures continue to rise and deadly weather events become more frequent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/23/2019 at 11:58 AM, jacee said:

I guess it's always tempting to try to micromanage other people's business, but First Nations Band Councils are accountable to their Band members for uses of own-source revenues. That's how self-government works.

Our obligation is to fulfill our Treaty and other legal obligations. So you might instead try holding our federal government accountable for the previous revenues of Indigenous Nations that disappeared into Canada's General Revenues and were used for the benefit of all Canadians instead.

'We don't want another 30 years of dictatorship': First Nation unites to oust 'lifetime' chief

www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/ojibway-nation-saugeen-leadership-1.5189317

www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/first-nations-suicide-rate-3-times-higher-than-for-non-indigenous-people-statscan/ar-AADEEAj?li=AAggXBV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/15/2019 at 5:49 PM, eyeball said:

You don't realize the discussion has encompassed talking about an international commission do you?

These are some of the countries that currently occupy a seat on the UN Human Rights Commission

China

Nigeria

Iraq

Afghanistan

Somalia

Pakistan

Democratic Republic of the Congo

Every single one of them has the ignominious honor of winning a spot on the list of 10 ten countries with the WORST human rights records in the World.  And, it is of long-standing.

And we Canadians are supposed to take what this body says seriously? 

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, mowich said:

These are some of the countries that currently occupy a seat on the UN Human Rights Commission

China

 

Nigeria

 

Iraq

 

Afghanistan

 

Somalia

 

Pakistan

 

Democratic Republic of the Congo

 

Every single one of them has the ignominious honor of winning a spot on the list of 10 ten countries with the WORST human rights records in the World.  And, it is of long-standing.

And we Canadians are supposed to take what this body says seriously? 

image.png

Who are we to criticize others? All countries have ongoing human rights issues. It's the UN Conventions, and the collective approach of the UN that is important:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/05/11/un-human-rights-council-canada-indigenous_a_23432906/

OTTAWA — Members of the United Nations Human Rights Council are urging Canada to improve its treatment of Indigenous people, in particular women and girls. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, jacee said:

Who are we to criticize others? All countries have ongoing human rights issues. It's the UN Conventions, and the collective approach of the UN that is important:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/05/11/un-human-rights-council-canada-indigenous_a_23432906/

OTTAWA — Members of the United Nations Human Rights Council are urging Canada to improve its treatment of Indigenous people, in particular women and girls. 

Yet much of the mistreatment of Indigenous women and girls comes from Indigenous people.  Unless a non-Indigenous person lives up north or in the prairies, he or she is unlikely to work with or meet many Indigenous people.  For most Canadians, these seem like accounts of mistreatment from distant countries.  It’s like hearing about inner city violence when you’ve lived your whole life in safe communities.  It’s sad and everyone should live in safe communities, of course!  So implement policies that end such mistreatment.  Who doesn’t want that?

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jacee said:

Who are we to criticize others? All countries have ongoing human rights issues. I

An inane question and a morally and intellectually bankrupt statement side by side. Congratulations.

Taking the position that all nations have human rights issues and so we cannot criticize is to equate the likes of Saudi Arabia and North Korea to Canada, and that is imbecilic beyond even the usual idiocy of the Left.

The Left vastly exaggerates the 'human rights issues' of western countries like Canada because it can't bring itself to criticize 'brown' countries, and despises western capitalist nations. It's absurdly dishonest, but then, the Left lies to itself so I suppose it shouldn't have a problem lying to everyone else.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yet much of the mistreatment of Indigenous women and girls comes from Indigenous people. 

Don't you realize yet that the narrative from the Left is that whatever the problem is with 'brown' people, it's always ultimately the fault of white people? That's simply the way the Left thinks.
Thus when natives kill each other its white people's fault, because we weren't nice to them back in the day.

Never mind that when they moved into a territory and took it over they slaughtered all the inhabitants, or drove them off their territory entirely. No, that's not cruel at all. Nothing to criticize about that. White people are the cruel ones for not slaughtering them, not enslaving them, and instead providing for them and then trying to educate them.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yet much of the mistreatment of Indigenous women and girls comes from Indigenous people.  

Nonsense

The RCMP selectively reported their 2014 data to draw that conclusion, only reporting the cases of murdered Indigenous women they've solved.

Of the total 1181 Missing and Murdered women that RCMP identified: 

554 (47%) were murdered by Indigenous offenders (not a majority, not "most")

53% were ... 

238 (20%) murdered by 'other' offenders 

77   (7%) likely murdered by serial killers

312 (26%) Unsolved murders or still Missing

RCMP did not even mention the serial killers in their data, but the Globe and Mail did, accounting for another 77 women (DNA, localized killers).

RCMP are not only covering up a pretty dismal rate of solving murders and disappearances (67%), but also intentionally implicating Indigenous men to a greater extent than is warranted by their own data. 

What does it say that RCMP selectively reported data to shine a light back on Indigenous communities? Bias much?

And there are untold numbers of Missing women not reported to police, because police won't do anything and may find excuses to arrest any Indigenous person who bothers them about missing friends/relatives. MMIW's own data collection included over 4000 missing women, far more than the 1181 reported to police. 

It remains to be seen whether, as a result of the MMIW inquiry, police will start paying appropriate attention to reports of missing women. So far, the RCMP are just ducking responsibility and weaving lies, so it's not looking good. Sadly, many Indigenous women are taken from City police jurisdictions, murdered and their bodies are disposed of in outlying RCMP jurisdictions. If the RCMP won't cooperate, won't investigate, the trail ends with them. 

Unless a non-Indigenous person lives up north or in the prairies, he or she is unlikely to work with or meet many Indigenous people.  For most Canadians, these seem like accounts of mistreatment from distant countries. 

More nonsense.

Nation-wide, over half of Indigenous people live off reserve in other Canadian communities, cities and towns. 

The RCMP may be only familiar with reserves as their jurisdictions are rural, and some uninformed people focus solely on reserve communities. But in Ontario, for example, only 37% of Indigenous people live on reserve. Indigenous people are everywhere across Canada, working in offices, hospitals, universities, construction and other trades, in day cares and counselling, arts and music, writers, journalists, etc. 

 

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jacee said:

Nonsense

The RCMP selectively reported their 2014 data to draw that conclusion, only reporting the cases of murdered Indigenous women they've solved.

Of the total 1181 Missing and Murdered women that RCMP identified: 

554 (47%) were murdered by Indigenous offenders (not a majority, not "most")

53% were ... 

238 (20%) murdered by 'other' offenders 

77   (7%) likely murdered by serial killers

312 (26%) Unsolved murders or still Missing

RCMP did not even mention the serial killers in their data, but the Globe and Mail did, accounting for another 77 women (DNA, localized killers).

RCMP are not only covering up a pretty dismal rate of solving murders and disappearances (67%), but also intentionally implicating Indigenous men to a greater extent than is warranted by their own data. 

What does it say that RCMP selectively reported data to shine a light back on Indigenous communities? Bias much?

And there are untold numbers of Missing women not reported to police, because police won't do anything and may find excuses to arrest any Indigenous person who bothers them about missing friends/relatives. MMIW's own data collection included over 4000 missing women, far more than the 1181 reported to police. 

It remains to be seen whether, as a result of the MMIW inquiry, police will start paying appropriate attention to reports of missing women. So far, the RCMP are just ducking responsibility and weaving lies, so it's not looking good. Sadly, many Indigenous women are taken from City police jurisdictions, murdered and their bodies are disposed of in outlying RCMP jurisdictions. If the RCMP won't cooperate, won't investigate, the trail ends with them. 

 

 

More nonsense.

Nation-wide, over half of Indigenous people live off reserve in other Canadian communities, cities and towns. 

The RCMP may be only familiar with reserves as their jurisdictions are rural, and some uninformed people focus solely on reserve communities. But in Ontario, for example, only 37% of Indigenous people live on reserve. Indigenous people are everywhere across Canada, working in offices, hospitals, universities, construction and other trades, in day cares and counselling, arts and music, writers, journalists, etc. 

 

So by your own account, of solved crimes, most of the perpetrators were Indigenous.  I’m not saying this to imply that Indigenous people are more murderous than non-Indigenous.  In fact, I agree that there are additional stressors that make Indigenous women and girls more vulnerable.  

I don’t think that all of these problems can be laid at the feet of non-Indigenous people.  We’ve talked a lot about the issues on some reserves, from substance abuse to poverty and substandard living conditions.  We also know that some of those communities are extremely dependent on outside support for their survival, yet there is a kind of orthodoxy within some Indigenous circles to stay on the reserve, and in some cases to marry only Indigenous.  The Indian Status and reserve tax breaks only incentivize this.  As long as unsustainable communities exist and people rely primarily on outside support, they will be vulnerable.  

Indigenous interests are one of many interests for voters.  For a slew of reasons, some difficult to parse out, many Indigenous have struggled to participate in and enjoy the fruits of the wider society.  One would think that free land and not having to pay taxes would be advantages, but not if they tie you to a remote unsustainable community.  Not having votes and other past injustices of the Indian Act put Indigenous people at a remove that will take time to mend.  Yes the RCMP can do better and we need to end racism of all forms.  

Ultimately most of the solutions will have to come from Indigenous people.  Only they can decide what they want. That’s what self-government is all about.  I doubt there will be much more tax money flowing into reserves or Indigenous affairs because, again, voters have multiple concerns to address. Indigenous peoples are not babies to be taken care of.  That idea is patronizing and racist.  Indigenous people must address what they can for their own people and non-Indigenous should implement sensible recommendations from the inquiry that don’t remove personal responsibility from the perpetrators of rape, abuse, and murder.  Canada has never permitted such behaviour and it doesn’t serve anyone to pretend that Canada is largely responsible for these tragedies.

 

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

So by your own account, of solved crimes ...

Who (of any intelligence) thinks only "solved" crimes merit mention?

The majority of the 1181 cases (53%) are not accounted for by the RCMP's falsely inflated claim that 'mostly Indigenous men did it': "Mostly" Missing and Murdered Indigenous women's cases are Unsolved (33%), or the offenders were non-Indigenous men (20%)

Over half of Indigenous people do not live on reserves (where murders are more easily solved). They live in towns and cities throughout the country. 

Why are police not solving those murders? 

 ...the RCMP ... patrols only 20 per cent of the population in Canada. The rest of the country falls under the jurisdiction of provincial, municipal and First Nations police forces. The RCMP and other forces don't co-ordinate the questions on their missing persons forms.

Nor do they share information or cooperate in investigations:

"Why I failed to catch Canada's worst serial killer"  

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38796464

... but at the highest levels of both forces there was resistance to the idea and full co-operation did not begin for several years.

... until 49 women (at least 17 Indigenous) were dead and fed to the pigs. 

If police forces refuse to cooperate across jurisdictions, the serial killer's task becomes easy: Take women from City police jurisdictions and dispose of their bodies in outlying RCMP jurisdictions, like Willy Pickton did and serial killers in other cities (Edmonton, Winnipeg).

But you don't learn about that from the biased RCMP report. The RCMP won't discuss Unsolved cases nor their very poor 'solve rate' for serial killers.    

Edited by jacee
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jacee said:

Who (of any intelligence) thinks only "solved" crimes merit mention?

The majority of the 1181 cases (53%) are not accounted for by the RCMP's falsely inflated claim that 'mostly Indigenous men did it': "Mostly" Missing and Murdered Indigenous women's cases are Unsolved (33%), or the offenders were non-Indigenous men (20%)

Over half of Indigenous people do not live on reserves (where murders are more easily solved). They live in towns and cities throughout the country. 

Why are police not solving those murders? 

 ...the RCMP ... patrols only 20 per cent of the population in Canada. The rest of the country falls under the jurisdiction of provincial, municipal and First Nations police forces. The RCMP and other forces don't co-ordinate the questions on their missing persons forms.

Nor do they share information or cooperate in investigations:

"Why I failed to catch Canada's worst serial killer"  

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38796464

... but at the highest levels of both forces there was resistance to the idea and full co-operation did not begin for several years.

... until 49 women (at least 17 Indigenous) were dead and fed to the pigs. 

If police forces refuse to cooperate across jurisdictions, the serial killer's task becomes easy: Take women from City police jurisdictions and dispose of their bodies in outlying RCMP jurisdictions, like Willy Pickton did and serial killers in other cities (Edmonton, Winnipeg).

But you don't learn about that from the biased RCMP report. The RCMP won't discuss Unsolved cases nor their very poor 'solve rate' for serial killers.    

What makes you think the percentages of unsolved would be dramatically different?  Anyway, the point is to try and prevent this from continuing.  It does raise the question as to whether the situation would have been better or worse for Indigenous girls if CAS had more involvement or less involvement.  The practice of the Children’s Aid Society removing children from the home is out of favour these days and the “60’s Scoop” is referenced.  Now money has been set aside to create Indigenous led, on reserve versions of CAS.  The bottom line is that children need protection from abuse and neglect.  Women need protection from violence.  Police forces should put vulnerable people first, including and especially Indigenous women and girls.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In hindsight there was a time in this country Christians were so convinced of their religion being the only civilized way to be they created an Indian Act and took about 60 to 90 tribes of groups of Canadian natives, redefined them as 3000 "bands" in need of government patronage and patronization and for the most part placed them in open air segregated ghettoes called reservations. Then these same Christians decided they would try take the children of these people and teach them English, convert them to Christianity and cut their hair and show them how to walk and scratch their testacles like white people do.

The above initiatives were predicated not on the express idea of slaughter but to proseltyze and cleanse savages. Unlike Nazis or just out and out brutal massacres like in Armenia or with the blacks in Sudan, the Yazidi, the Kurds, it was done in the name of Jesus to save souls.

Well it fucked up and blew up real good and the pathogen or tool for imposing this policy was the federal government and the Indian Act. So I say its time to scrap the Indian Act. All it did is create a myriad of corrupt band leaders stealing government funding and making it impossible top trace the money. Its been a bureaucratic mess ever since.

Native Canadians have issues some as vestiges of this disasterous Indian Act and past policies, some of their own making. Sitting around feeling guilty is a useless emotion. It changes nothing but it is what leftists do. They dwell on the past but don't offer concrete solutions. We have a generation brought up to whine about the past but offer nothing here and now to change things positively. This is because the cell phone and computer has sucked any remaining critical and creative thought out of the minds of the next generations leaving sheep behind who repeat parsed words they read on the internet, their soul window of exploration.

All the geniuses  talking about aboriginals and how bad they have it never met one let alone have been in the court system with them. 

Look its well  meant to feel guilty. Its also a little extreme Argus to say aboriginals are solely to blame for their current situation.

The fact is our federal government is enforcing a ridiculous corrupt system that promotes and spreads corruption and decay. Our federal government is a disease to the native peoples. They have asked us to redefine our relationship with them.

When we do it works. You can go on the internet and see  hundreds of examples of corporate initiatives of Canadian businesses forming partnerships with aboriginals and employing aboriginals. Every federal, municipal and provincial government has employment initiatives for aboriginals. Our school boards, universities and colleges all now have initiatives for aboriginals. Our health systems are creating initiatives to work with aboriginals. The change IS happening. Its happening slowly and for the most part the press and the whining leftists have no clue its happening because their need is to dwell on what has not worked.

Then we have people to the right who would just as much prefer to blame it all on aboriginals for being lazy alcoholics.

Point is we fucked up and we are trying to fix the fuck ups.  The solutions come from a realignment of services and how we define native peoples.

All that said I think we should scrap the Indian Act once and for all and replace it with a more stream lined native council of elected representatives from across Canada representing their 60-90 nations.

Then from there have that council elect a set number of their own members to sit in federal Parliament. We should also give this native self-government full public scrutiny as we do our own governments when it comes to how they spend and serve their people.

We should also stream line the senate a much smaller size, make it electable and reserve a certain no. of seats for native representatives.

Then I would appoint Argus Minister of Home Security and have him round up every damn leftist (except Dialamah because she is nice) and put them on the old reservations and force them to listen to Celine Dione music over and over again until they agree to convert to Hari Krishna. Then they won't bother anyone anymore. As for our dear  colleagues like Taxme I would have them work as orderlies in hospitals so they could see their shit don't smell or look any different and repeat that llesson for the remainder of their lives or until they wash their hands.

As for me, I will remain a spiritual guide to all Canadians symbolized through the Montreal Canadiens logo and hereafter be known simply by the same OH GREAT ONE.

Regards

Your Chieftain, Rue the Hebrew

p.s. donations can be sent to this forum in care of my name

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What makes you think the percentages of unsolved would be dramatically different?  Anyway, the point is to try and prevent this from continuing.  

The identity of killers isn't the issue. The RCMP misrepresenting their data to focus only on family violence on reserves is the issue. I would feel more optimistic about prevention if police would admit their failures to cooperate in cross-jurisdictional murder cases. Without their acknowledgement and efforts to improve that, it's still 'open season' for anonymous predators taking women from City police jurisdictions and dumping their bodies in outlying RCMP jurisdictions.  

RCMP are clearly evading that issue, refuse to discuss it, reverting to inflated claims that focus on Indigenous men and family violence. That does not at all address anonymous predators, a significant source of murders: The Globe and Mail linked the deaths of 77 Indigenous women to serial predators in that same RCMP data, but the RCMP did not report on that at all, did not address cross-jurisdictional policing at all, which raises the likelihood that both systemic racism and cover-up are  influencing both their policing and their public reporting. 

Quote

It does raise the question as to whether the situation would have been better or worse for Indigenous girls if CAS had more involvement or less involvement.  The practice of the Children’s Aid Society removing children from the home is out of favour these days and the “60’s Scoop” is referenced.

It isn't out of favour at all. There are more Indigenous children 'in care' now than ever before. It's a self-sustaining industry that, instead of providing support to families, puts obstacles in their way to justify keeping their children. The 'industry' can't sustain itself without apprehending children.  

Quote

Now money has been set aside to create Indigenous led, on reserve versions of CAS. The bottom line is that children need protection from abuse and neglect.  [/quote]

The Justice for Stolen Children Camp in Saskatchewan (2018) asked that the social work support provided to apprehended children in foster care should instead be provided to support the children to stay with their own families, a very sensible request: If child apprehension is considered 'a last resort', the first strategy should be family support, parent training and monitoring. The Premier and the Minister of Social Services refused to meet with them to discuss it.

Now the Minister refuses to discuss it with the Federal government if Indigenous reps are in the room:

Saskatchewan minister wants to discuss child welfare without input from Indigenous groups

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-provinces-feeling-left-out-of-ottawas-child-welfare-reform/

While ... 

 Indigenous leader accuses Sask. of delaying child welfare reform to preserve jobs for social workers

"Our 17 agencies — we're well prepared. Saskatchewan First Nations are ready to take over," Pratt said Wednesday. ... 

Pratt said he believes the provincial government is dragging its heels because of bureaucracy and wanting to maintain jobs.

Government lip service is not credible without results.

 

 Women need protection from violence.  Police forces should put vulnerable people first, including and especially Indigenous women and girls.

There is no evidence at all of Police forces doing that. Instead, there is evidence of RCMP cover-up. 

Never forget ... that police, government and business customers were all seen at Piggy's Palace (Pickton's farm), a sex and snuff (kill) entertainment facility where the women were not left alive to be witnesses.  

 

Edited by jacee
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jacee said:

The identity of killers isn't the issue. The RCMP misrepresenting their data to focus only on family violence on reserves is the issue. I would feel more optimistic about prevention if police would admit their failures to cooperate in cross-jurisdictional murder cases. Without their acknowledgement and efforts to improve that, it's still 'open season' for anonymous predators taking women from City police jurisdictions and dumping their bodies in outlying RCMP jurisdictions.  

RCMP are clearly evading that issue, refuse to discuss it, reverting to inflated claims that focus on Indigenous men and family violence. That does not at all address anonymous predators, a significant source of murders: The Globe and Mail linked the deaths of 77 Indigenous women to serial predators in that same RCMP data, but the RCMP did not report on that at all, did not address cross-jurisdictional policing at all, which raises the likelihood that both systemic racism and cover-up are  influencing both their policing and their public reporting. 

It isn't out of favour at all. There are more Indigenous children 'in care' now than ever before. It's a self-sustaining industry that, instead of providing support to families, puts obstacles in their way to justify keeping their children. The 'industry' can't sustain itself without apprehending children.  

 

I totally disagree on CAS.  I have worked closely with them in my work and can tell you that removing children from family is always a last resort reserved for sexual or extreme physical abuse.  In fact, CAS doesn’t respond to lack of school attendance as a criterion for neglect and often accepts what most people would consider bad parenting.  I was told numerous times that bad parenting and abuse are not the same thing.  It’s difficult to find decent and committed foster parents.  Of course for kids with behaviour issues, there are few foster parents willing to take them.  

I ask the question as to whether more or less CAS involvement is necessary because both arguments can be made.  Leaving children with parents struggling with addiction who neglect or abuse their kids in the name of respecting Indigenous ways is a position that no rational person can support.  Abuse cannot and must not be accepted as cultural, or else we accept all sorts of abuse, such as honour killings and female genital removal.  Honour killings do take place in Canada and have been prosecuted in our courts.  

In terms of your comments on police, while racism surely does exist and some murder cases may not have received as much attention as they should, I doubt it’s always for reasons of racism against Indigenous or attitudes towards down and out women such as prostitutes in the inner city, and has more to do with the difficulty in tracking people of no fixed address who have no official employment or identity trail. We could have bigger conversations about more radical ways of protecting such women, such as legalizing prostitution to keep organized crime and health concerns at bay, which I support for reasons of safety.  

In terms of racism against Indigenous and bias against transient people, it comes down to recruiting, training, firing, and monitoring.  Don’t underestimate the importance of family counseling and policing, as well as economic opportunity, in reducing domestic abuse of women and girls on and off reserves.  If we’re honest, that’s probably the most important work, as it is the root causes of abuse and unhealthy family life that often leave females in precarious positions and men thinking abuse is acceptable that must be addressed.  Changing the twisted mind of a serial killer is no easy task as such acts are far outside of normative activity.  Police forensics and investigations are put to work to solve crimes and prevent further killing because it’s extremely difficult to anticipate anyone committing such a crime for the first time before it happens.

In general, attention, time, and money need to go where it will have the greatest impact.  Some things are easier to prevent and solve than others.  There’s much that can be done, but let’s not create straw men or red herrings that distract from the issue.  Talking up colonialism and genocide accomplishes little because it doesn’t lay out specific fixes.

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I totally disagree on CAS.  I have worked closely with them in my work and can tell you that removing children from family is always a last resort reserved for sexual or extreme physical abuse.  ...

In terms of your comments on police, while racism surely does exist and some murder cases may not have received as much attention as they should, I doubt it’s always ... 

In terms of racism against Indigenous and bias against transient people, it comes down to recruiting, training, firing, and monitoring.  Don’t underestimate the importance of family counseling ...

Talking up colonialism and genocide accomplishes little because it doesn’t lay out specific fixes.

Get back to me once you get out of your Ontario-centric headspace and look at the west, where up to 90% of kids in care are Indigenous, most of the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women cases occur, and the RCMP polices almost everything outside the Cities and refuses to cooperate with other police jurisdictions.

The RCMP have been enforcing Canada's genocide for 150 years. Chasing down 'escaping' Indigenous kids with dogs and guns is in the RCMP DNA. 

It just isn't as whitewashed as you want to make it seem. The RCMP have their own 'rules':  Blame the 'Indians' is also in the RCMP DNA ... because our governments genocidal motives encouraged that.

And they just did it again with their false reporting, 'blame the Aboriginal men', to cover-up their TOTAL FAILURE to solve more complex, cross-jurisdictional murder cases. TOTAL FAILURE to cooperate with other police forces. TOTAL FAILURE to pay ANY attention to the bodies dumped in their jurisdictions, except to count them ... maybe.

Vancouver PD assigned someone to the missing women case after 17 were missing. But the RCMP refused to cooperate until 49 were dead. Years before, the RCMP had a search warrant for Pickton Farm that they never used.

There needs to be a National Inquiry into the RCMP.

Quote

...more radical ways of protecting such women, such as legalizing prostitution ...

Prostitution is legal in Canada. 

Johns and pimps are not.

________________________

 

I just can't give any credence to your poorly researched, poorly informed whitewashed excuses and questionable  motives. 

Edited by jacee
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jacee said:

Get back to me once you get out of your Ontario-centric headspace and look at the west, where up to 90% of kids in care are Indigenous, most of the Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women cases occur, and the RCMP polices almost everything outside the Cities and refuses to cooperate with other police jurisdictions.

The RCMP have been enforcing Canada's genocide for 150 years. Chasing down 'escaping' Indigenous kids with dogs and guns is in the RCMP DNA. 

It just isn't as whitewashed as you want to make it seem. The RCMP have their own 'rules':  Blame the 'Indians' is also in the RCMP DNA ... because our governments genocidal motives encouraged that.

And they just did it again with their false reporting, 'blame the Aboriginal men', to cover-up their TOTAL FAILURE to solve more complex, cross-jurisdictional murder cases. TOTAL FAILURE to cooperate with other police forces. TOTAL FAILURE to pay ANY attention to the bodies dumped in their jurisdictions, except to count them ... maybe.

Vancouver PD assigned someone to the missing women case after 17 were missing. But the RCMP refused to cooperate until 49 were dead. Years before, the RCMP had a search warrant for Pickton Farm that they never used.

There needs to be a National Inquiry into the RCMP.

Prostitution is legal in Canada. 

Johns and pimps are not.

________________________

 

I just can't give any credence to your poorly researched, poorly informed whitewashed excuses and questionable  motives. 

As long as only one half of prostitution is legal in Canada, the supply side, it will remain underground and women will be vulnerable, because Johns don’t want to get caught.  

Stop trying to assign the responsibility for the murders of women and girls to police, the country, and other actors with no direct causal  link to such crime.  Yes there is a colonial legacy, but the residential schools are gone, as well as the restrictions on voting and legal representation.  It will take time to heal.  

Seven students died at the Indigenous-run high school in Thunder Bay.  The students came from remote communities that are far too small to have high schools.  The children left their families for an education much as they did to attend church-run residential schools.  It’s true that in the past there were restrictions on using aboriginal languages and other cultural traits at such schools.  It was wrong, but the intention was to help people adapt to mainstream society.  Generally when people know better, they do better.  People know better and residential schools are gone. The situation has changed, yet depression, substance abuse, and suicide persist.  It’s tragic and most people want these problems fixed   

Your stats reinforce what we already know, that dysfunctional families and communities, as well as places with little economic opportunity or hope, put women and girls in vulnerable situations.  In cases of CAS removing children from families, have there been situations where the children became more vulnerable in their new foster homes than they were prior to having this care?  Yes, and it probably did happen with more frequency in the 60’s scoop, but I can say for certain that the decision today to remove a child from a family isn’t taken without good reasons.  In some cases these kids never really had a recognizable home to begin with and rescue by the agency was a matter of survival.   Why are children removed from homes?  How much of it has to do with racism versus abuse and neglect?  Most of the case workers I dealt with were from minority groups, were caring, thoughtful people, and hardly the picture of colonialism that you paint.  I can think of situations when I thought children should have been removed due to neglect but CAS persisted in working with the families.  Granted, these were non-Indigenous families.

There have been problems with racism in policing.  That’s why recruiting and training well is so important.  The RCMP has had to be completely realigned and major leadership and policy changes have taken place, especially around sexism and racism.  Continue to target that area.  What about the men in these vulnerable women’s lives?  What are they like?  What kinds of attitudes are being cultivated and accepted?  Who and where are they?  What kinds of counseling and community pushes are there to change behaviour?  Target that.

When you slam mainstream Ontario as being out of touch with these problems, I’d agree and say that these problems lay outside the norm of mainstream Canadian society.  We’re back to the problem of the unsustainable, unhealthy remote community that is propped up by Indian Status tax incentives and local pressure to stay on the reserve.  I don’t know anyone who thinks this is a good or sustainable system, including governments.  Some reserves do thrive, but others have become self-guarded prisons where the pressure to stay on the res and marry Indigenous comes from vested interests who benefit from this system.  It isn’t government, because the costs of maintaining such places with a low tax base is enormous.  Voters will only turn over so much income, especially if they know that the fix will only be temporary because the community has little economic self-sustainability.  I do understand the importance of keeping families and communities together, but many communities from every culture have resettled elsewhere for a better life.  Why is this harder for struggling Indigenous communities?  Might it be the reserve system?

Nevertheless, governments won’t take away the reserve system, Indian status, or funding because they would wear the fallout.  The decisions about how to fix this broken system must come from Indigenous with at least existing government funding levels.  I hope that the measures taken are realistic and clearly relate to the problems that need to be fixed.  

On abuse of women and girls in the North:

https://globalnews.ca/news/5459763/violence-against-women-and-girls-north-triple/

On the impact of residential schools on neglect and children in care:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/study-links-trauma-from-residential-schools-to-overrepresentation-of-indigenous-youth-in-care-1.5199421

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

When you slam mainstream Ontario as being out of touch with these problems, I’d agree and say that these problems lay outside the norm of mainstream Canadian society.

I suggested that you look beyond your Ontario CAS experience with non-Indigenous kids.

It isn't relevant.

You're not well-informed but you have all the answers. Lol 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, jacee said:

I suggested that you look beyond your Ontario CAS experience with non-Indigenous kids.

It isn't relevant.

You're not well-informed but you have all the answers. Lol 

Well I live and work in Ontario and have worked closely with CAS.  In what jurisdiction have you worked closely with CAS?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jacee you white washed the aboriginal policing issue, scapegoat the RCMP, offer know acknowledgment of new aboriginal policing practices being implemented and throw out the word genocide trivializing it.

You are actually an excellent example of someone who whitewashes complex issues, reducing them to simplistic name calling offering NO suggestions.

Clearly yoou have never been on a reserve, understand what domestic violence, incest, drug and alcohol addiction do to families.

The RCMP is not in charge nor did it create the myriad of rules and jurisdictional conflicts it deals with.

The RCMP has no control over Band Chieftains who divert money to their own pockets that should have gone to social services.

The RCMP can not prevent all the problems you blame them for-they can only react.

 

https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/new-expert-panel-report-provides-a-foundation-for-long-term-vision-of-policing-in-indigenous-communities-845983941.html

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/1/2019 at 12:10 PM, jacee said:

Who are we to criticize others? All countries have ongoing human rights issues. It's the UN Conventions, and the collective approach of the UN that is important:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/05/11/un-human-rights-council-canada-indigenous_a_23432906/

OTTAWA — Members of the United Nations Human Rights Council are urging Canada to improve its treatment of Indigenous people, in particular women and girls. 

So Canadians don't have the right to question or criticize a supposed human rights commission that is composed of some countries whose own human rights record is absolutely appalling.  Give your head  shake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, mowich said:

So Canadians don't have the right to question or criticize a supposed human rights commission that is composed of some countries whose own human rights record is absolutely appalling.  Give your head  shake.

We have that right just not a lot of credibility.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...