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Native inquiry an orgy of progressive guilt-mongering

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19 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Is there ever a time when someone refuses to be a victim, refuses to view themselves as a victim, refuses to play the part of a victim . . . 

 

The faux victims in all this are people who view accountability and responsibility as a attack against them personally.

Get over yourselves.

Edited by eyeball

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9 hours ago, eyeball said:

You didn't even read the article you provided a link for did you?

 

No this simply does not matter one bit. 

What matters are the legal terms of the Genocide Convention a convention that clearly includes the definition the obscure theorist you're dismissing articulated.

What was the main purpose of that lawyer’s crusade to address genocide?  To end the systematic elimination of a people.  It’s irresponsible to try to make the Holocaust equivalent to what happened in Canada.  Not even Apartheid is genocide, as terrible as that system was.  Sure go ahead and accept these explosive and misleading descriptions of the state of Indigenous affairs in Canada.  Get out your check book and protrate yourself before the inquisition because as a Canadian you’re being held responsible for genocide.  You and other Canadians caused these problems as co-conspirators in colonialism.  Clearly you accept the determinations of the inquiry, accept your guilt, and will pay for all of the recommendations.   

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

What was the main purpose of that lawyer’s crusade to address genocide?

To ensure his definition of genocide is what the Genocide Convention used.

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Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

Arguably since the founding of the country we've done just that. It only ended 50 or so years ago.

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2 minutes ago, ImBrock said:

Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

Arguably since the founding of the country we've done just that. It only ended 50 or so years ago.

According to the Genocide Convention Canada is signatory to it's still happening. And as the convention clearly states you don't have to actually kill anyone to perpetrate it. 

Edited by eyeball

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This is true, though its not necessarily government sponsored anymore its kind of a lingering systemic problem which is harder to deal with. A lot of the issues kind of bubble under the surface or are deliberately kept under wraps by the people involved right. I feel like there is value in distinguishing between these different stages of whats going on, at least as a way of measuring our progress on solving the issues.

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8 minutes ago, ImBrock said:

This is true, though its not necessarily government sponsored anymore its kind of a lingering systemic problem which is harder to deal with. A lot of the issues kind of bubble under the surface or are deliberately kept under wraps by the people involved right. I feel like there is value in distinguishing between these different stages of whats going on, at least as a way of measuring our progress on solving the issues.

What's going on is that the effects of decades of moral debasement have succeeded so much that it'll take a few generations to make it go away.

Thankfully progress is like rust and it never sleeps.  The only way to solve it is over time one word at a step if need be.

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41 minutes ago, ImBrock said:

Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

Arguably since the founding of the country we've done just that. It only ended 50 or so years ago.

Nonsense. I think a lot of Canadians conflate US and Canadian history when it comes to the First Nations. The residential schools were arguably the only attempt at genocide in Canada and even that doesn't fit the definition you posted. In fact, some of the Native groups were important to the Europeans. The fur trade wouldn't have been what it was without the Wyandot. Outside of death by disease from incidental contact, most of the Natives killed in Canada were killed during the English-French War as a result of choosing sides and not as an actual policy of extermination..

Edited by Armchairprophet

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Just now, Armchairprophet said:

Nonsense. I think a lot of Canadians conflate US and Canadian history when it comes to the First Nations. The residential schools were arguably the only attempt at genocide in Canada and even that doesn't fit the definition you posted. In fact, some of the Native groups were important to the Europeans. The fur trade wouldn't have been what it was without the Wyandot. In fact, outside of death by disease from incidental contact, most of the Natives killed in Canada were killed during the English-French War as a result of choosing sides and not as an actual policy of extermination..

We deliberately sold them blankets that had been used by people with small pox. Since europeans came to the region known as canada 9/10ths of the natives that used to live here have died.

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20 minutes ago, ImBrock said:

We deliberately sold them blankets that had been used by people with small pox. 

This is what I mean about conflating US and Canadian history. THAT was the Americans. That never happened in Canada. 

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2 minutes ago, Armchairprophet said:

This is what I mean about conflating US and Canadian history. THAT was the Americans. That never happened in Canada. 

It did you should history more.

In 1763, the British used blankets exposed to smallpox as germ warfare in their attempt to subdue the Aboriginal uprising led by Pontiac. In 1775 during the American Revolution American troops besieging Québec City were stricken with smallpox.

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Jesus. Are you a foreigner? Do you NOT understand that Canada and the US are different counties? That link does NOT show a program of small pox infected blankets being handed out to Native Canadians. The Aboriginal uprising led by Pontiac took place in the US, not Canada. Quebec City meantime, was going through it's own small pox epidemic that was NOT confined to just the Native people.

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3 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

With a little bit of initiative and enthusiasm, most anyone can make their life better . . . .

Such people will inevitably aspire to assert their property rights endowed by the Creator, at which point they are no longer supine in the face of being conned out of their birthright.

Hence why the narrowly vested entrenched interests in Canada have no interest in repealing the racist Apartheid Indian Act.

So long as the Indians will not embrace their own divine rights as individuals and rather cling to the collectivist dogma, they remain at the mercy of Boss Hog and the Unions.

Edited by Dougie93

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2 hours ago, ImBrock said:

Genocide - the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

Arguably since the founding of the country we've done just that. It only ended 50 or so years ago.

We did a piss poor job of it then.

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2 hours ago, ImBrock said:

This is true, though its not necessarily government sponsored anymore its kind of a lingering systemic problem which is harder to deal with.

Because it's not based on race. It's based on the poor reputation of those in the category of 'native'.

And that reputation is unfortunately based on more than a few kernals of truth. The violence and crime, certainly makes all those who live near reserves and are impacted by that violence and crime very wary and suspicious of natives. And the fact that most natives on reserves have no work and have never had work means they have no culture of work or punctuality, which  makes them poor employees, which means people don't want to hire them.

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2 hours ago, Armchairprophet said:

Jesus. Are you a foreigner? Do you NOT understand that Canada and the US are different counties? That link does NOT show a program of small pox infected blankets being handed out to Native Canadians. The Aboriginal uprising led by Pontiac took place in the US, not Canada. Quebec City meantime, was going through it's own small pox epidemic that was NOT confined to just the Native people.

This is the problem we have.  Public ignorance of Canadian history is making it easy to sell narratives about the “genocide” of Indigenous peoples within Canada.  I guess if something is repeated loudly enough times it’s easier to swallow.  Were there misguided policies pertaining to Indigenous peoples within Canada?  Yes.   There were many misguided policies pertaining to a range of areas.  The Indian Act is poor.  Sir John A Macdonald is criticized for saying Canada shouldn’t feed the Indigenous.  He knew that setting up a welfare system of feeding and housing people would create a moral hazard of dependence, which is probably true.  Even the welfare state that was created post-Great Depression doesn’t provide such a level of care for the general population. These people are not infants.  

Anyway, for people to be informed they’ll have to read the report and learn the history then decide for themselves what should be done policy-wise.  I watched an Indigenous tv show on the CBC recently that was made by Indigenous with an Indigenous cast.  One of the characters commented that, in spite of the mismanagement, at least they get to hang out and watch satellite tv on the reserve.  Think about that for a moment.  Do you get to live on free land in free housing, have free higher education, and make tax free income?  How many Indigenous people today are being told not to use their native language?  

There have been payouts, apologies, commissions, and inquiries.  There are land claims, recommendations, and calls for action.  A lot of work has taken place and money has been spent to address these matters.  I’m sure some of the recommendations are very good ideas and should be followed.  

So how much responsibility for the problems of a segment of the population should be the responsibility of governments beyond what governments already provide?   Is it about policy or money?  We all want better policy.  How much more money should come from taxpayers, if that is what is being called for here?  What are people willing to give up? Posters like Eyeball seem to buy into the idea that colonial Canada is responsible for these murders to quite a large degree. I’d like them to know what the financial implications are for them of such a guilty narrative and see if they still buy into it.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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On 6/6/2019 at 7:35 PM, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t know a single Canadian who doesn’t want to see Indigenous people thrive.  If you can find solutions that Indigenous peoples will form a consensus around, great.  If it boils down to more money, voters will have to support that.  Using extreme language inaccurately, words like genocide, when most Canadians know there was never an intentional (or unintentional) mass murder or elimination of Indigenous peoples, will only cause voters to disengage from Indigenous concerns, which are already far removed from the daily lives of most Canadians.  Stick to specific measures to improve concrete problems that can actually be solved by governments, especially in an environment where non-Indigenous are constantly reminded not to make decisions for Indigenous peoples.  Inflammatory language is very unhelpful.  

Another major problem with the inquiry’s recommendations is their extreme overreach into matters that have no direct relationship to the topic, such as the demand for a basic income and multiple demands for funding to similarly peripheral matters.  I can’t believe that people actually think it’s reasonable for a government to take care of people to such an extent, right down to food, housing, and income for nothing in return.  Below are just a few examples:

2.4 Provide the resources required to preserve knowledge by digitizing interviews with Knowledge Keepers and language speakers. Support community-led Indigenous language and cultural programs through permanent, no-barrier funding and resources.  

2.5 Create a permanent fund supporting Indigenous-led initiatives for Indigenous individuals, families, and communities to access cultural knowledge.

[...]

2.7 Fund Indigenous-led initiatives to improve the representation of Indigenous Peoples in media and pop culture.

[...]

4.1 Uphold the social and economic rights of Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA people by ensuring that Indigenous peoples have services and infrastructure that meet their social and economic needs. All governments must immediately ensure that Indigenous peoples have access to safe housing, clean drinking water and adequate food.

[...]

4.5 Establish a guaranteed annual livable income for all Canadians, including Indigenous peoples, to meet all their social and economic needs.

4.6 Commence construction of new housing and the provision of repairs for existing housing to meet the housing needs of Indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA people.

Geezus, these Canadian Indians have received hundreds of millions if not billions of Canadian taxpayer's tax dollars for decades now to try and make amends and make their Indian lives better. Why do people like to try and forget about all the tax dollars that have been blown on people who appear to be not all that intelligent enough to get by in life. We are living with people who just can't get past the 17th century. The native Indian is his/her own worse enemy, not old whitey. Old whitey has done enough already. They need to go get a job and stop their constant whining. Just my opinion of course. 

Edited by taxme

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11 hours ago, cannuck said:

Explain to me then why we are expected to do this for Indians?

Canada is supposed to be a land of equals.  The current extreme of the polically correct seem to think aboriginals are entitled to be more than equal.

Let me give you another example:  there are aboriginal "olympics+ that every virtue signalling politician and left wing loonie celebrates with pride.  How do you think it would fly if we held a "White Male Only Olympic" meet?"

Speaking of which:  Canada has a bunch of Gay Pride parades.  I can already hear you and the liberal media bitch and moan when I announce my "Straight Guys and Gals Only" parade.

What? A straight guys and gals parade or a white males only Olympic? No way, Jose. That would somehow be seen as being homophobic and full of hatred towards gayism. The lame duck leftist lieberal media and our useless bunch of buffoon politicians would be demanding that those straight white males be arrested and charged and thrown in the gulag for such blasphemy. There is no doubt about it that Canada has truly become a queer country.  Just saying. 

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On 6/6/2019 at 4:07 PM, Argus said:

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Like the Native Indians in Canada, the blacks in Africa are their own worse enemy. Just saying. 

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41 minutes ago, taxme said:

These Canadian Indians have received hundreds of millions if not billions of Canadian taxpayer's tax dollars for decades now to try and make amends and make their Indian lives better. Why do people like to try and forget about all the tax dollars that have been blown on people who appear to be not all that intelligent enough to get by in life. We are living with people that just can't get past the 17th century. The native Indian is his/her own worse enemy, not old whitey. Old whitey has done enough already. They need to go get a job and stop their constant whining. Just my opinion of course. 

Note to native Indians:  The buffalo are gone, they're not coming back . . . . . get over it.

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3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Anyway, for people to be informed they’ll have to read the report and learn the history then decide for themselves what should be done policy-wise.

What possible point is there in reading the report if all you intend to do is ignore it's terms and definitions? 

 

On 6/6/2019 at 7:35 PM, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t know a single Canadian who doesn’t want to see Indigenous people thrive.  

You should take a look in a mirror sometime.  Your approach to this entire issue perfectly epitomizes how the process of neglect functions and underscores precisely why Lemkin's definition for genocide is as broad as it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Note to native Indians:  The buffalo are gone, they're not coming back . . . . . get over it.

Note to conservatives:  The future is here...get over it.

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3 hours ago, eyeball said:

What possible point is there in reading the report if all you intend to do is ignore it's terms and definitions? 

 

You should take a look in a mirror sometime.  Your approach to this entire issue perfectly epitomizes how the process of neglect functions and underscores precisely why Lemkin's definition for genocide is as broad as it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s presumptuous.  I support some of the recommendations.  You seem to accept all of them.  Are you prepared to pay for them and accept the way Canada has been characterized by the report?   

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27 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s presumptuous.  I support some of the recommendations.

Bully for you, I don't see any reason to believe you'd implement them.

Quote

You seem to accept all of them.  Are you prepared to pay for them and accept the way Canada has been characterized by the report?

Sure.  I hope Canada is boycotted if it keeps playing the poor hard-done-by-me act you apparently subscribe to.

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15 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Bully for you, I don't see any reason to believe you'd implement them.

Sure.  I hope Canada is boycotted if it keeps playing the poor hard-done-by-me act you apparently subscribe to.

He cries while he supports [some of the] the FNs hard-done-by -Whitey act. Once again I have to ask, how does male FNs killing female FNs constitute a genocide?

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