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Do you support Western Oil & Gas?

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I don't support digging up the Tar Sands or selling anything to China that might help make its dictatorship stronger.

I'd support the development of nuclear power but only on the condition that the in-camera lobbying of public officials is outlawed.

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9 hours ago, eyeball said:

I don't support digging up the Tar Sands or selling anything to China that might help make its dictatorship stronger.

I'd support the development of nuclear power but only on the condition that the in-camera lobbying of public officials is outlawed.

You can't be serious.

 

So let's not touch the Oilsands, and make a place with a horrible record of Human Rights abuses like Saudi Arabia pick up the slack.

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12 hours ago, J4L said:

You can't be serious.

 

So let's not touch the Oilsands, and make a place with a horrible record of Human Rights abuses like Saudi Arabia pick up the slack.

No we should tell Saudia Arabia to go piss up a rope too.

 

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When I buy gas I don't know exactly which country it originates from but I would prefer to support our Canadian oil industry. By all means, build more pipelines and get the oil to the market. I can't imagine how many billions of dollars have flowed out of the Western provinces to the enormous benefit of the rest of the country. 

I don't believe any pipelines will get built under this Trudeau government however.

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2 hours ago, ironstone said:

I don't believe any pipelines will get built under this Trudeau government however.

Considering he is going to be out of office in 90 days, that's a safe bet.

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I favour making sure there is oil and gas in western Canada for future generations. Transition to western Canadian nuclear fuel.

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On 7/26/2019 at 9:54 AM, ironstone said:

When I buy gas I don't know exactly which country it originates from but I would prefer to support our Canadian oil industry. By all means, build more pipelines and get the oil to the market.

 

You are telling two different stories in one sentence.  You would rather buy Canadian oil, which makes sense, but the pipelines you want to see built will be exporting the oil to Asia.

Sorry, I am totally against this type of exports!

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How do you feel about coal exports from "green" British Columbia? And for the record,I do want Canadian oil to be exported.

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That is a topic where I feel ambivalent. I understand Alberta to be mad at BC and QC regarding the oil exportation. I also understand BC and QC to refuse those pipes to pass on their territory. AB definitely do not have the same level of tolerance toward polution and risks as BC and QC.  I honestly do not know yet what is the best compromise for all concerns.

I wonder if Alberta puts enough emphasis on developing industries on derived products from oil.

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this is a really difficult question for me to answer.   Will try to do so in as few terms/lines as I can.

Of course, I support the petroleum industry in Western Canada, as we live in a very hydrocarbon dependent society/economy and we have a HUGE reserve of same in the form of the Athabasca Oil Sands.   While to most that means mining in Ft. Mac, to others it is the extraction of heavy oil from existing (transitional) technologies until far better technologies can be applied.  In a perfect world (or at least in a better one that should be just around the corner) electicity generated by nukes in AB/SK could be used to provide power to RF well/field stimulation to produce heavy crudes (extra-heavy by some frames of reference) without SAGD kind of hydrocarbon-intense production processes.   This is not pie-in-the-sky, but proven existing technology pretty much off-the-shelf.

In it's current form, exporting heavy oil is extremely difficult as it is extremely difficult to ship as produced.   Shipping it as "dilbit" (diluted bitumen) is something I do NOT support.  If you want it in a pipeline as "crude" (sort of) you need to dilute it with some very light ends.  If you spill that, you have a heavy component that sinks to the bottom and is a proper bitch to recover, and a very light component that is rapidly dispersed and damaging, not to mention a HUGE fire risk in transportation.   Transporting by pipeline might be infinitely safer than rail (which is what happens when you protest/block a pipeline - the oil IS going to be produced, and IS going to be shipped...PERIOD) but the whole thing means taking a resource from the ground and exporting without seriously adding any value (there IS a cost and process in producing diluent).  IMHO: best to make it very expensive to do so and encourage/reward the step of creating synthetic crude (such as Suncor, Syncrude, SK Co-op, Husky and Shell do now) and far better yet, produce final products in refineries here fed by synthetic crude from upgraders (as happens in Regina, Ft. Sask, Ft. Mac and Lloydminster)

BTW: don't be upset with Saudi for selling oil into Eastern Canada, get upset with the provincial governments of Ontario and Quebec who are so stupid as to block pipelines from the West into their marketplace.

The tanker ban is aimed DIRECTLY at the Athabasca resource.  In the act/regs it specifically prohibits transport of more the (IIRC) 12.5k tonnes per vessel of crude or "partially processed bitumen".  Knocking the light ends off, one can easily make bitumen (a non-haz, unclassified product) shipable.   It can even be rendered as a solid, thus extremely safe to ship.  But: blocked by the very people who co-incidentally own the pipeline that competes with this (Prince Rupert) export route.

Edited by cannuck

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As a Québecer, I am appreciative to oil exploitation in the West and am very grateful that the Western Provinces don't leave Canada, as it could kill our economy if Alberta for example separated. I am 100% for it and against the importation of oil.

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I don't support any economic nationalism, it's for the rubes.

The oil market is global, the oil has to come to market, I don't care where it comes from.

Oil in Canada is a curse, it's called the Dutch disease.

The Governments in Canada are bottomless pits of wasteful spending, bribing Canadian rubes with their own money.

Oil revenues don't get Canadians ahead, the governments quickly flush that into boondoggles and Canada goes deeper into debt.

F*ck Alberta.

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The ultimate market for oil is international but there is very much a different domestic market when it comes to supply, demand, transportation and most of all wellhead pricing.  When you see a price for WTI, that is delivered to a tank in Cushing OK and sold as a one month future contract on the NYSE.   If you produce in say WY, 20 years ago sweet light greens would have sold into the midstream for a premium every day, and WY heavy sour (asphaltics) range from slightly discounted from WTI to as low as $2 a bbl (against a then WTI of $10-$12).  Those same crudes at a $55 price today would be only $45-$50 for lights and in summer near $40 and winter can even be $-0.50 to empty the production tanks.   In Canada, WCS (Western Canada Select) is priced similarly at a discount to WTI, but wellhead could be 1/2 of WCS quotes or in busy paving season, close to WCS.  The reason for that is very limited transportation, and unless there is a local market demand, Athabasca, Lloyd and Cold Lake heavies (Husky asphalt refinery for latter two) are near worthless - regardless of what the international market is doing.  BTW: WY heavy sour can tank when desperate producers in AB ship heavies for peanuts to stay alive.  This winter you could pick up a heavy oilfield in either Lloyd or WY for free.

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Well I do respect Alberta's direct relationship to the British Crown which entitles them as a Province within only a federation to exploit their own resources as they see fit.

I do not intervene on their behalf, but I do not intervene against them neither.

Yes, the Edmonton Oilers were once a great team, one of the greatest of them all.

But I'm a Leafs fan.  So f*ck Alberta.

Edited by Dougie93

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On 9/7/2019 at 11:27 AM, Dougie93 said:

Well I do respect Alberta's direct relationship.............  So f*ck Alberta.

In summary, you respectfully f*ck Alberta.:D

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19 minutes ago, cougar said:

In summary, you respectfully f*ck Alberta.:D

I respect Alberta's direct relationship to Buckingham Palace.   The Provinces are in a Confederation, it's not a republic, there is no public rule, Alberta is not my business.

Canada was the only Confederation in the British Empire, it's not a unitary Dominion like New Zealand

It's a collection of Dominions in a federation, because of the looming menace of the Americans.

Ontario and Alberta are not the same Dominion, it's not my role in Confederation to tell Albertans what to do, but it's not my problem to prop them up neither.

Any Leafs fans in Alberta are okay by me, the rest of those Leaf hater hayseeds can go eat a bag of dicks

Except for Wayne Gretzky of course, but Wayne is from Brantford, Ontario boy.

Edited by Dougie93

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13 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I respect Alberta's direct relationship to Buckingham Palace.   The Provinces are in a Confederation, it's not a republic, there is no public rule, Alberta is not my business.

Canada was the only Confederation in the British Empire, it's not a unitary Dominion like New Zealand

It's a collection of Dominions in a federation, because of the looming menace of the Americans.

Ontario and Alberta are not the same Dominion, it's not my role in Confederation to tell Albertans what to do, but it's not my problem to prop them up neither.

Any Leafs fans in Alberta are okay by me, the rest of those Leaf hater hayseeds can go eat a bag of dicks

Except for Wayne Gretzky of course, but Wayne is from Brantford, Ontario boy.

You're stuck in the past . . . all your Confederation, Queen, Republic, Hanover, Windsor, etc., etc., etc. gets really tiring. You're here in Canada now, yet you bitch and moan about this not being a country, about your allegiance to some figurehead in Europe, how tough a soldier you are, and on and on . . . .   If you are not happy in the country of Canada, the world is at your doorstep. Maybe a move to somewhere else would make you happier.  I'm betting most Canadians consider this as their country and are trying to make it better. Again betting, most Canadians don't give a rat's ass about some pompous foreign kingdom . . . 

No doubt this post will bring down the 'Wraith of Chuckie' . . . . well, so be it.

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2 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

You're stuck in the past . . .

Happily so, there is nothing in this postmodern future which incites me to abandon the story of my people,

In terms of residence, I enjoy right of return to both HM Confederation of the Dominion of Canada and the Republic of the United States of America.

Hence  I can come and go as I please, what "most Canadians" think about it, I do not care;

Canada is not a republic, there is no public rule, thus I do not answer to the Canadian public.

In terms of being a tough Canadian infantryman, my brothers in arms in America respect that, even if Canadians do not, so it's all good, America first.

Her Majesty did after all decorate me for my service, those medals tend to convince "most Canadians" that I did my bit for Canada

In America, they carry even more credence, America respects those who have sworn the oath and signed the contract of unlimited liability, for that in of itself.

Perhaps "most Canadians" view this decorated veteran as being some sort of "traitor" now,  that is not for me to say.

As an American tho, Lord knows I rightly scoff at that notion.  Seems that Canadians do not care about their own army, because they are protected by America.

Rangers.  Ducimus.  Next man, stand up, hook up, shuffle to the door. . .

 

Edited by Dougie93

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You’re just a monarchist flag waving American. It’s oxymoronic, but whatever turns your crank.  The Queen and the pageantry and history surrounding the Crown are powerful and Canada does have that in the quiver, but frankly the people transcend even these powerful national mythologies.  I’m more interested in the possibilities of science, international cooperation, and human development.   We’re all contributors to the ongoing saga of humanity, which includes nations and ethnicities, but is bigger than those.  I think the question is, what kind of reality do we want to create?  We are literally messaging in a world theatre.  That’s the deal in the Information Age.   

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23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s the deal in the Information Age.   

That Information Age is America itself, the information is;

Declaration of Independence.

Emancipation Proclamation.

Empire of Liberty

Flight to Quality

Manifest Destiny

Canada is being swept aside by it too.

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7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

That Information Age is America itself, the information is;

Declaration of Independence.

Emancipation Proclamation.

Empire of Liberty

Flight to Quality

Manifest Destiny

Canada is being swept aside by it too.

Those are all just narratives in the same Information Age, like

Multiculturalism

Cultural Mosaic

billingualism

Just Society 

peacekeeping

 

They’re all just stories we tell about ourselves.  

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7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Those are all just narratives in the same Information Age, like

Multiculturalism

Cultural Mosaic

billingualism

Just Society 

peacekeeping

 

They’re all just stories we tell about ourselves.  

One story is more powerful than the other, and will win the day.

Your Iron Curtain against American Freedom shall be swept aside, Manifest Destiny is Destiny.

Your Liberal Party of Canada propaganda is weak sauce, it shall not stand, the Information Age will see to that.

Edited by Yzermandius19

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1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Those are all just narratives in the same Information Age, like

Multiculturalism

Cultural Mosaic

billingualism

Just Society 

peacekeeping

 

Those are not things Canadians actually defend nor uphold, America has to defend and uphold all that for Canada.

To include the Peacekeeping operations, since America performs all those missions now, Canada doesn't do Peacekeeping anymore, nor much of anything else actually.

Don't look now, but Canada has actually become isolationist in the face of American freedom sweeping Canada's speech banning ways aside.

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3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Those are not things Canadians actually defend nor uphold, America has to defend and uphold all that for Canada.

To include the Peacekeeping operations, since America performs all those missions now, Canada doesn't do Peacekeeping anymore, nor much of anything else actually.

Don't look now, but Canada has actually become isolationist in the face of American freedom sweeping Canada's speech banning ways aside.

You have a very different perception from most Canadians who see Canada as one of the last refuges of true liberal democracy.  Democracy has been under threat in the US and Europe.  I think it will be alright, but the US has gone backwards for a few years socio-politically.  It’s nativist right populism.  

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