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 Climate cultists have lost their freakin' minds - there's no way I'm giving up meat...    Had a great T-bone tonite.. 


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Say NO to a meat tax now before it makes it's way through the media and messaging becoming a 'necessary' tax....  

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They're really pushing for the "Beyond Meat" or "Impossible" Burgers.

Just imagine how much processing is involved to make it what it's not?   The lunatics go all out to ban pesticides and promote organic - and yet they stuff themselves with all sorts of who-knows-what! 

They're really crazies.....and the sad part, they have the clout to dictate how you and I should live our lives!

Edited by betsy

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They just nibble at the edges of C02 emissions.  They do whatever they can to avoid having to address the China/India issue.

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Climate change is being used to manipulate people for fun and profit. If you can make a case that your business is essential for dealing with climate change, it's practically a guaranteed win.

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I also have contempt for future generations and don't like taking personal responsibility for anything.

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Climate change is being used to manipulate people for fun and profit.  

That's a step up from people saying that it was invented to profit from people.  I would say if there's any threat, ie. terrorism, climate, financial collapse, then there are people out there who will exaggerate that threat for profit.

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30 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

I also have contempt for future generations and don't like taking personal responsibility for anything.

It's nice to see you're not a completely incorrigible monster after all! :D 

But you are wrong once again, BubberMiley. No one here is saying we want to be irresponsible. We need to do something, but not just anything. People cannot be persuaded to give up their wealth and happiness to accomplish nothing. Some of these proposals do that, accomplish nothing. Yet the do benefit certain groups over others, in terms of where the money goes. I say that is a threat to achieving the goal of addressing climate change as well. Climate change scammers.

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13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Climate change scammers.

What's a scam and what isn't ?  Redistributed Carbon Tax has been politicized but they don't seem to like cap and trade either.  Soft persuasion won't do it, so ... ?

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4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What's a scam and what isn't ?  Redistributed Carbon Tax has been politicized but they don't seem to like cap and trade either.  Soft persuasion won't do it, so ... ?

So go for higher ground.  Soft persuasion most definitely will not do it, and there is no stomach for anything else. (if such were even possible)

Greta can take a sailboat, but the plane she might have been on went anyway.

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10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What's a scam and what isn't ?  Redistributed Carbon Tax has been politicized but they don't seem to like cap and trade either.  Soft persuasion won't do it, so ... ?

We are a diverse group of greedy bastards, and you expect us to get together and cooperate? And quickly as well? Let's be realistic for a moment... that is just not going to happen. Call me a prophet but I say there is no way at all that we are going to pull this off and reach any sort of targets. No sir. The opposite will happen. We are all going up, up up.

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1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

I also have contempt for future generations and don't like taking personal responsibility for anything.

So sorry you feel that way, most of us don't, sad for you tho. 

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1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

What's a scam and what isn't ?  Redistributed Carbon Tax has been politicized but they don't seem to like cap and trade either.  Soft persuasion won't do it, so ... ?

It's hard to find any kind of solution acceptable to certain people.  Climate change itself is a scam, so any effort on our part to mitigate it is resisted and mocked.  There's also the attitude that if it doesn't solve the problem, it's not worth doing at all. Carbon pricing  demonstrably reduces emissions, even if it doesn't completely solve the problem.  Various green technologies are too expensive to be feasible, even as prices come down and reliability improves, so they should be scrapped.  And how dare we even consider reducing the need for employment in the oil industry.  

Then of course there's the claim that other countries are more responsible and we should do nothing because they aren't doing enough.  Never mind that it is our consumer lifestyle that has driven the change so far, and that these other countries are, by capita, emitting much less carbon than we do.

In the meantime headlines like this Canadian Children at Higher Risk of Asthma and Lyme Disease Due to Climate Change will be ignored, dismissed, attributed to an agenda.  I suppose at some point the effects will be obvious enough that even the most die-hard "do nothing" folk of today will be demanding that government do something, anything to fix the problem.  They'll have conveniently forgotten all their objections to what we could be doing today in favor of blaming everybody else.   Some of us here may still be alive to see the start of this, but it will be our children and grandchildren who'll bear the brunt of our squabbling.

I don't suppose humans will cease to exist really, but I think it'll be catastrophic enough that civilization as we know it will be gone.  

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7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

 There's also the attitude that if it doesn't solve the problem, it's not worth doing at all. Carbon pricing  demonstrably reduces emissions, even if it doesn't completely solve the problem. 

It's not that exactly.  Certainly lots of things that don't solve the problem are worth doing.  The move in Alberta from coal to natural gas for power generation for example. 

The trick is in the balance.  If it doesn't solve the problem and causes great economic harm then it's not worth doing.  I can't imagine an argument that it is.

That said, if it doesn't cause great economic harm, then it's probably not worth doing anyway.  Not from an AGW perspective.

So, if we want to make a difference, we have to make something that causes great economic harm worth doing.  That means everyone has to do it.  And there's the rub.

Edited by bcsapper

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You will find that those three attitudes (it's a scam; it's not worth doing anything; it's worth doing but China should do it first) can even inexplicably be expressed by the same person in the same conversation. It's like they'll throw any argument at the wall to see if it will stick.

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2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If it doesn't solve the problem and causes great economic harm

Evidence is that carbon pricing is the least impactful economically, yet the claim is that it's too costly.  

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Taxing people to death, destroying industries and our economy isn't going to change the weather, or slow changes down.  If the alarmists/cultists have their way we would have to go back to the stone age, better still maybe we should just not reproduce and die out because human cause emissions too.  Getting rid of plastics and pollution etc. is commendable and we all work towards that doing what we can, but this alarmist and hype just turns people off as most of us do not accept government intervention in our food choices.  

We can live without some unnecessary plastics but we can't live without our modern medical equipment without the use of plastic materials.  MRI machines, blood bags, heart valves, prosthetic devices, artifical hips/knees, air conditioners among many other items,  all use plastics, so do away with everything we have today will only contribute to less farming, less agriculture, not enough food.    Without fuel, hydro and all the amenities we enjoy now society would collapse as civilized society is a thin veneer, take away everything and we have ' Mad Max'   (not Bernier).    Imagine what life would be like with no central heating, no electricity, food shortages and society will collapse; that's what alarmism and hysteria will do.    

We have to work on alternatives and gradually shift towards replacing plastics etc. but carbon taxes and possible meat taxes are not the answer.    The world has always cycled in and out of ice ages warming up with no help from humans.  

ETA:   don't forget that pets create a carbon footprint equivalent to an SUV, but where is the outcry over that, why are people not being asked to limit the no. of pets - probably because it would cause a big outcry as people tend to love their pets more than anything else. 

 

 

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Edited by scribblet

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1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Evidence is that carbon pricing is the least impactful economically, yet the claim is that it's too costly.  

Carbon pricing for whom?  If it's just Canada, what impact will it have on AGW?  I can certainly see it in the cities.  I wouldn't let anyone in a city drive anything bigger than a Yaris.  But that's not just for carbon.  I also would ban all recreational use of fossil fuels.  No more ATVs, Snowmobiles, etc.  That wouldn't do a lot for climate either, but it would make me happy.

And really, if we allow recreational use of fossil fuels, how seriously do we actually view the problem?

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Ban all recreational vehicles really, mind you I can see why you wouldn't like an ATV, nasty noisy things, but useful in the bush.  (hubby has one).  Should we ban boats too cos if we do those jet setting climate alarmists wouldn't like to give theirs up I'm sure.     I guess by those lites we should really ban all pets, or at least limit them to one per household.  What it amounts to is going back to the pre-industrial revolution era and we can all starve on the streets.

Carbon taxes don't work, it's just a money grab, certainly they won't change anything in Canada except to empty out our pockets .   What's in your wallet?

Is an argument between two vegans still called A Beef

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Just now, scribblet said:

Taxing people to death, destroying industries and our economy isn't going to change the weather, or slow changes down. 

Who is being taxed to death?  Canada's taxes are lower than those in the US, even though we're committing the great sin of addressing climate change in the least disruptive manner possible.  The oil industry as it currently exists is not compatible with human life.  Our economy is not going to survive the influx of climate refugees from the rest of the world, or at least those that can get here.  Read around the web some; Canada is already talked about as being one of the best places to be.  You think there's a border crisis now, its gonna get a lot worse and the most likely outcome over time is no-more-Canada because we do not have the military to defend our border even from our next door neighbor.  

8 minutes ago, scribblet said:

If the alarmists/cultists have their way we would have to go back to the stone age, better still maybe we should just not reproduce and die out because human cause emissions too.  

An effort to slow climate change so we have time to implement a slower transition away from fossil fuels is not a demand to go back to the stone age.  Unless most scientists are very, very wrong, our species will be decimated so that at least will help.

16 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Imagine what life would be like with no central heating, no electricity, food shortages and society will collapse; that's what alarmism and hysteria will do.    

Food shortages are coming and it will impact us.  More extreme weather, forest fires and floods will impact our energy delivery services, disproportionately affecting rural areas and the poor.  We will not be as affected by these things as other countries, I assume, but doesn't mean we'll be sitting pretty by any stretch.  The biggest threat for us, I believe, are climate refugees and military invasion by other countries.  Or maybe just one other country.

6 minutes ago, scribblet said:

The world has always cycled in and out of ice ages warming up with no help from humans.  

1.  Last time the climate cycled this high  humans didn't exist.

2.  Climate temperatures did not raise dramatically within decades, as it has done currently.

3.  Even if this is part of a normal cycle, human activity has made it significantly worse.

I hope me and 95% of scientists have eggs on our faces in the decades ahead as the climate reverses course with minimal intervention from us.  If we don't, I hope the people who put forth these arguments are around to see the result of their calls to inaction.

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28 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1. Carbon pricing for whom?  If it's just Canada, what impact will it have on AGW.

2.  I can certainly see it in the cities.  I wouldn't let anyone in a city drive anything bigger than a Yaris.  But that's not just for carbon.  I also would ban all recreational use of fossil fuels.  No more ATVs, Snowmobiles, etc.  That wouldn't do a lot for climate either, but it would make me happy.

And really, if we allow recreational use of fossil fuels, how seriously do we actually view the problem?

1. If nobody does anything, then nothing happens.  I'd rather start doing something now then just sit back and wait for my neighbor or the guy in the next town to save my life. 

2. Sure,  I agree there is lots more that we could do, but given that a significant portion of Western people are arguing against doing much, it's not hard to see why more aggressive solutions aren't being suggested. 

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

We are a diverse group of greedy bastards, and you expect us to get together and cooperate? 

It's not so fantastic to think that.

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6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1. If nobody does anything, then nothing happens.  I'd rather start doing something now then just sit back and wait for my neighbor or the guy in the next town to save my life. 

2. Sure,  I agree there is lots more that we could do, but given that a significant portion of Western people are arguing against doing much, it's not hard to see why more aggressive solutions aren't being suggested. 

If nobody does anything, then nothing happens. If somebody does something, and it's not enough, then nothing happens.  Why suffer for nothing?

Aggressive solutions require international co-operation before they can even begin to make a difference.  It's the co-operation that's the problem.  That's why we have impotent conferences and hollow symbolism.  Everyone knows the co-operation isn't going to happen, so they don't try and put forward aggressive solutions. 

Have you actually heard of one?  One that would actually work?

Local taxes, cap and trade, sequestration, doing this by 2030, doing that by 2050, etc.  Nobody cares enough.

Edited by bcsapper

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4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's not so fantastic to think that.

It'll probably happen when it's way too late. 

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1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Have you actually heard of one?  One that would actually work?

Carbon taxes reduce emissions in the most economically effective manner.  

Shell supports carbon pricing and has even pulled out of lobbying groups whose policies are not in accord with the Paris Accord.

Who benefits from arguing against carbon taxes?  The oil industry and they spend lots of money to do that.  

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