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Immigrants cost Canada $30 billion per year

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33 minutes ago, jacee said:

I prefer the wealthy hypocrites pay their taxes owing on their offshore money. 

You mean like Morneau and Trudeau? Like their friends the Irvings and Desmarais? That ain't gonna happen.

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

Wanting to protect your country's culture, values and beliefs is not racist.

Of course not, when it comes to an old country with homogeneous population belonging to one culture.

Canada does not fall into this group unfortunately , so trying to protect your culture from other cultures becomes "racist".

Recently a video showed a middle aged woman asking a "China lady" to go where she came from.  The video recorded by the Chinese.

A while ago there was a white guy who confronted an East Indian in a parking lot, telling him "Go home Hindu"  or something of that sort.

Both of these people will face criminal charges and could lose their jobs.  This is how it works here.

 

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4 minutes ago, cougar said:

Of course not, when it comes to an old country with homogeneous population belonging to one culture.

Canada does not fall into this group unfortunately , so trying to protect your culture from other cultures becomes "racist".

Recently a video showed a middle aged woman asking a "China lady" to go where she came from.  The video recorded by the Chinese.

A while ago there was a white guy who confronted an East Indian in a parking lot, telling him "Go home Hindu"  or something of that sort.

Both of these people will face criminal charges and could lose their jobs.  This is how it works here.

That is because Canada is Victorian.   Victorian Missionary Impulse.  Monarchy.  Queen's Peace.  Order.  Governance.

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1 hour ago, cougar said:

Of course not, when it comes to an old country with homogeneous population belonging to one culture.

Canada does not fall into this group unfortunately , so trying to protect your culture from other cultures becomes "racist".

Recently a video showed a middle aged woman asking a "China lady" to go where she came from.  The video recorded by the Chinese.

A while ago there was a white guy who confronted an East Indian in a parking lot, telling him "Go home Hindu"  or something of that sort.

Both of these people will face criminal charges and could lose their jobs.  This is how it works here.

 

 Canada is a western democracy where people are treated equally before the law regardless of race , religion, gender, orientation and wealth. Where women are respected and enjoy equal rights where minorities are treated well.Where there is a freedom of choice on what to wear and what t drink and what to believe.  We are trying to protect these values. Bring over people of the culture who by teaching do not believe in equality of women or respect for women or try to imposed their backward values upon people born here is endangering those values. 

The two people who did those deplorable acts are the ones who are a danger to Canadian values more so than the worse of immigrants. This is not what Canada stands for. Just like every democracy freedom of speech has its limits. As long as it doesn't harm any other citizen. They crossed that line and deserve punishment though I think facing criminal charges for first offense or losing their job is too much since they did not cause any bodily harm..

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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15 minutes ago, cougar said:

Of course not, when it comes to an old country with homogeneous population belonging to one culture.

Canada does not fall into this group unfortunately , so trying to protect your culture from other cultures becomes "racist".

People who say Canada didn't have its own culture and values are idiots.

15 minutes ago, cougar said:

Recently a video showed a middle aged woman asking a "China lady" to go where she came from.  The video recorded by the Chinese.

A while ago there was a white guy who confronted an East Indian in a parking lot, telling him "Go home Hindu"  or something of that sort.

Both of these people will face criminal charges and could lose their jobs.  This is how it works here.

Not in this country. Not unless the progressives manage to amend our laws the way they've done in parts of Europe.

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Anglo Canadian culture is Fundamentalist Protestant in origin and nature, flows from the evangelical Second Great Awakening peaking in the 1820's

Came to Canada by way ofthe Evangeline Trail, Orange Order and American Mid West and West.

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3 minutes ago, Argus said:

People who say Canada didn't have its own culture and values are idiots.

Possibly so. 

I have close to 20 years in this place and I still cannot quite figure out the culture and how it is different from that in the USA for example.  And in those 20 years there must have been at least 6,000,000 newcomers to Canada from all over the World who have come and have tried to understand the culture and fit in.

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4 minutes ago, cougar said:

I have close to 20 years in this place and I still cannot quite figure out the culture and how it is different from that in the USA for example. 

It's no secret.   It is exactly as advertised on the brochures. 

Canada is monarchist.  America is republican.

Canada is stuffy,  buttoned down and reserved, a Nanny State.  Authoritarian.

America is a raucous and rambunctious populist democracy, a Hurly Burly.  Libertarian.

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1 hour ago, cougar said:

... there must have been at least 6,000,000 newcomers to Canada from all over the World who have come and have tried to understand the culture and fit in.

If you try to agree on something to write on a piece of paper and tell people, you will have difficulty agreeing    And yet... the culture persists, and the values persist. 

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9 hours ago, jacee said:

Doctors can't practice in Canada without going through a requalification program. It's lengthy and expensive with limited spots per year ... so they drive cabs. 

However, you will be pleased to know that some doctors qualifying in Canada are required to do placements in the north. 

Link? 

I'm not sure people in the north would agree with your negative characterization, and you haven't provided any evidence to support any such claims. 

Information cited in more than two sources is considered public knowledge, so I won’t cite evidence that illustrates the obvious.  I did cite evidence regarding cost of housing as proportion of income and income/wage stagnation related to global trade, availability of low wage workers, and de-unionization.  The 70% settlement of all immigrants in the GTA has been cited often.  While it’s easy to cite information about standard of living and infrastructure gaps in the north as compared to the south, that’s not really the thrust of my argument for encouraging northern settlement through immigration.  The main reason is population distribution across the country, housing costs in the major southern centres, and the environmental and quality of life impact of overcrowding in the urban south.  There’s tremendous wealth in the ground throughout Canada, but without the available workforce to tap it, there’s little business case to set up shop.  This is also about governments investing in the right infrastructure and planning for Canada’s future on a macro level.  It’s about public policy that works for Canada’s long term prosperity.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

If you try to agree on something to write on a piece of paper and tell people, you will have difficulty agreeing    And yet... the culture persists, and the values persist. 

I don't know.  Argus was mentioning the "country's culture" and this is where I get a bit excited.   Think about Ireland; you would immediately recognize the harp as a national instrument, the Irish songs and dances, the clover, but you also know what those people look like and sound like.  Then Scotland same thing, you think about the bagpipes, kilts , dances, tradition, history and again you know what those people look like and sound like. You know what architecture you can find.  Some of that built over 500 years ago. Move to mainland Europe - France (well they do have a bit of a problem with their colonial past), Germany, Italy end so on; again you know what these people look like , sound like and for the most part what they like or do not like. Architecture and all.

Now think about Canada.  What are the things that come to mind associated with culture?  The flag and the maple leaf in particular, the maple syrup, Tim Hortons, hockey......but these are taking us nowhere in terms of culture.  Do you associate the country with a particular kind of people or language/accent? No.   Is there a common religion? No.  Is there any traditional dress everyone is proud to wear? No.   Is there a distinguished architectural style unique to the country? No 

If we consider the culture to be just a set of rules where everyone who follows them is immersed in "the culture" then, yeah, we have our own culture.

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1 hour ago, cougar said:

I don't know.  Argus was mentioning the "country's culture" and this is where I get a bit excited.   Think about Ireland; you would immediately recognize the harp as a national instrument, the Irish songs and dances, the clover, but you also know what those people look like and sound like.  Then Scotland same thing, you think about the bagpipes, kilts , dances, tradition, history and again you know what those people look like and sound like. You know what architecture you can find.  Some of that built over 500 years ago. Move to mainland Europe - France (well they do have a bit of a problem with their colonial past), Germany, Italy end so on; again you know what these people look like , sound like and for the most part what they like or do not like. Architecture and all.

Now think about Canada.  What are the things that come to mind associated with culture?  The flag and the maple leaf in particular, the maple syrup, Tim Hortons, hockey......but these are taking us nowhere in terms of culture.  Do you associate the country with a particular kind of people or language/accent? No.   Is there a common religion? No.  Is there any traditional dress everyone is proud to wear? No.   Is there a distinguished architectural style unique to the country? No 

If we consider the culture to be just a set of rules where everyone who follows them is immersed in "the culture" then, yeah, we have our own culture.

I actually disagree quite strongly.  If you want a strong sense of Canadian culture, go to Quebec for Carnival or to a sugar shack.  In Ottawa enjoy the chateau style architecture of the Parliament buildings and Chateau Laurier.  Every major Canadian city has its CP hotel and its CNR railway station.  In Toronto that’s Union and Royal York.  In Quebec it’s Chateau Frontenac and Windsor station.  In Alberta it’s Banff Springs.  In BC it’s the Fairmont Vancouver and the Empress.  They’re all chateau style.  I think of sitting by a fire and eating something gamy, or maybe just a rotisserie chicken after a walk in the cold.

In Quebec and out east you get into the fiddle and kitchen parties.  Lots of Celtic and French Acadian all through the east.  Out west it’s more the RCMP and frontiersman, but it relates to the Quebec sugar bush woodsman, and of course the canoes and rivers, the Métis and Couriers de Bois.  There’s also cosmopolitan, multicultural, Information Age, communications tech Canada, and honest broker, even keel, polite, just society Canada.  I always think of the Paul Kane, Paul Peel, G of 7 scenes, also the modern Micheal Snow, Painters 11, Automatistes, and Riopelle.  Writers too.  My favourite is Ondaatje.  Books and painting for me, though music too.  

There’s definitely a sensibility in Canada of having to fortify oneself against the elements.  My favourite landscapes are the ones where nature scenes become abstract symbolist art, like in a Harris painting.  

Yeah there’s also hockey and beaver tails and the cliches, but there’s definitely a Canadian experience.  I think you feel it most somewhere like the Rockies over Lake Louise, in Muskoka, or on Cape Smokey in Cape Breton, by some small town with a Celtic name.  It must be even more dramatic in the mountains and fjords of the far north.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I actually disagree quite strongly.  If you want a strong sense of Canadian culture, go to Quebec for Carnival or to a sugar shack.

In another thread (or was it this one) people expressed a desire to see Quebec go, claiming those guys were only partying and draining public funds.  Yet they became the prime example of Canadian culture.  I have never been there , but I imagine they are more European minded and more into enjoying life than spending their lives in work.  They are supposed to be predominantly from French origin.

First Nations also have their own culture, art. artifacts, music and spoken languages. 

I hear what you are saying.  I enjoy some Canadian bands and music.  I really enjoy paintings too!

But in your examples somehow I cannot see how a China town or a mosque will fit into the culture.   There are so many people from so many places forming their own communities and speaking their own languages, to the point where "Canadian culture"  will be impossible to define.

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16 hours ago, Argus said:

You mean like Morneau and Trudeau? Like their friends the Irvings and Desmarais? That ain't gonna happen.

I'm sure there are as many Conservatives as Liberals who hide money offshore, away from the grasp of Canada Revenue. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cra-tax-gap-foreign-holdings-1.4726983

That $15-$30b per year could go a long way, but ... 

https://www.taxfairness.ca/en/news/conservatives-want-make-taxes-less-progressive

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You really want to address the issue,....is it really people taking videos of stupid comments such as the ones you mentioned, or  is it the fact people are taking videos of everything including what you mentioned? I think its the latter. I think those who do it for the former are still an exception.

 

Edited by Rue

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16 hours ago, cougar said:

Possibly so. 

I have close to 20 years in this place and I still cannot quite figure out the culture and how it is different from that in the USA for example.  And in those 20 years there must have been at least 6,000,000 newcomers to Canada from all over the World who have come and have tried to understand the culture and fit in.

Well, it's hard to figure out a culture when you can barely understand the language, and spend most of your time with your fellow expatriates and watching movies, TV and internet from back home. Not saying this describes you but it describes many.

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12 hours ago, cougar said:

I don't know.  Argus was mentioning the "country's culture" and this is where I get a bit excited.   Think about Ireland; you would immediately recognize the harp as a national instrument, the Irish songs and dances, the clover, but you also know what those people look like and sound like.  Then Scotland same thing, you think about the bagpipes, kilts , dances, tradition, history and again you know what those people look like and sound like. You know what architecture you can find.  Some of that built over 500 years ago. Move to mainland Europe - France (well they do have a bit of a problem with their colonial past), Germany, Italy end so on; again you know what these people look like , sound like and for the most part what they like or do not like. Architecture and all.

Now think about Canada.  What are the things that come to mind associated with culture?  The flag and the maple leaf in particular, the maple syrup, Tim Hortons, hockey......but these are taking us nowhere in terms of culture.  Do you associate the country with a particular kind of people or language/accent? No.   Is there a common religion? No.  Is there any traditional dress everyone is proud to wear? No.   Is there a distinguished architectural style unique to the country? No 

If we consider the culture to be just a set of rules where everyone who follows them is immersed in "the culture" then, yeah, we have our own culture.

Culture is not music and dances, though some use that as a handy reference. I'd say culture is a way of thinking about things, acting and behaviour traits. And that changes over time depending on multiple influences. For example, when I was young, Canadians were quietly patriotic, and somewhat smug about looking down at those American types with their flag waving and horn blowing and face painting. That wasn't our way. Now we do those things too, thanks to a determined government propaganda effort to make us 'patriotic'. Another common Canadian trait was our politeness. That too is passing. When I was younger the idea there could be drive-by shootings in our cities from violent street gangs would have been laughable. That was an American thing. Now it's here too, largely brought by immigrants. I remember getting in fights as a teenager, but they were always polite affairs compared to today. No one ever kicked, and if someone else joined in on either side, well, that was shocking enough bystanders would have jumped them. You didn't gang up on people. That simply wasn't done. That too is gone.

Politics were far more polite, too. And politicians from different parties treated each other with more respect, and actually often liked one another. But we were a smaller country then, and maybe you can be more cordial and respectful in smaller countries. Going to the cottage was a tradition, too, but maybe that was because cottages were way cheaper when we had half the population. Now most can't afford one. But anyway, there are always cultural touchstones among people who grow up together. Newcomers are rarely likely to 'get' them because they didn't have the same shared experience. Canada has a proud history, but you're unlikely to learn it because progressives despise it, and teachers are almost all progressives. Like Trudeau, all they see is the reasons to apologize to everyone for how badly we behaved. They ignore the bravery, brilliance and nation building because that's not part of their narrative.

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4 hours ago, Argus said:

Well, it's hard to figure out a culture when you can barely understand the language, and spend most of your time with your fellow expatriates and watching movies, TV and internet from back home. 

This is what I imagine many do.  They can spend their lives in their own cultures and their days in the culture that their business operates in.  I can see East Indians working at Wal-Mart, Tim Hortons, Subway and other places and they communicate with one another in Punjabi in their work environment.  They are simply predominantly Indian there, or exclusively Indian, so no point in using another language.  And nobody wants them to integrate to anything.

Canada is officially declared "multicultural".  This means there is no common culture.  You can think from the point of Victorian old stock white Canadians, but those will represent only one of the cultures.

Imagine a young Russian guy who somehow found a job at a East Indian run Tim Hortons (lets imagine for a moment the unimaginable that they did not discriminate against him and hired him).  What is he integrating into?  His evenings may be spent in Russian environment and his days in East Indian environment.  

 

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8 minutes ago, cougar said:

This is what I imagine many do.  They can spend their lives in their own cultures and their days in the culture that their business operates in. 

Also it's hilarious if anyone thinks white Canadian people are going home and consuming a notable volume of Canadian television and film product.  Really funny accusation.

 

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41 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Also it's hilarious if anyone thinks white Canadian people are going home and consuming a notable volume of Canadian television and film product.  Really funny accusation.

This is again an incorrect view of culture. Culture is not television or music or art. It's the common shared values, history and beliefs of a people. When they hang out together they are sharing in that culture. Newcomers who see and hear little of them and live in their own community are not.

Right now, 20% of the population is foreign born. Statistics Canada says that will rise by 50% to 30% foreign born within 15 years. Where are these newcomers going to live? Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, for the most part. TO and Vancouver are already almost 50% foreign. If that number also rises by 50% you're looking at cities which are effectively 75% foreign born. How are newcomers possibly going to integrate to a Canadian culture when there's so little of it even present? By 2036 more than half of all the people in Canada will be immigrants and their kids.

Edited by Argus

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

 

Right now, 20% of the population is foreign born. Statistics Canada says that will rise by 50% to 30% foreign born within 15 years. Where are these newcomers going to live? Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, for the most part. TO and Vancouver are already almost 50% foreign. If that number also rises by 50% you're looking at cities which are effectively 75% foreign born. How are newcomers possibly going to integrate to a Canadian culture when there's so little of it even present?

You problem is with foreign born in general or those immigrants who are or may be a burden on Canadian economy or a danger to Canadian culture and values? Lets clarify exactly what you stand for.

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7 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

You problem is with foreign born in general or those immigrants who are or may be a burden on Canadian economy or a danger to Canadian culture and values?

My problem is with importing people who will not be economically successful, and with importing such vast numbers of people that Canada's own homegrown culture effectively dissolves in a sea of foreign born.

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33 minutes ago, Argus said:

My problem is with importing people who will not be economically successful, and with importing such vast numbers of people that Canada's own homegrown culture effectively dissolves in a sea of foreign born.

Definition of culture just for reference:

"the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group."

Born in Canada does not mean the person is really "Canadian" by culture; could be anything.  Could be even a terrorist who does not speak English or French.  (home schooling is acceptable , is it not?)

Now bringing up the "economic success" into this discussion leaves a bad flavor.  It almost sounds like one is willing to sell / dilute his or her culture for money.

What we have is a business entity called Canada.  Official language of business - English or French with other languages acceptable if money is good.

 

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

 with importing such vast numbers of people that Canada's own homegrown culture effectively dissolves in a sea of foreign born.

That is not likely to happen because the children of all those foreign born will be born in Canada and effectively adapting the homegrown culture. The 3 million foreign born arrivals every decade (and ten times that are Canadian born as we speak now) will never hence put them in a majority position. Statistically very unlikely if not impossible.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

By 2036 more than half of all the people in Canada will be immigrants and their kids.

Like Argus indigenous peoples have been dismaying over the very same thing for centuries.

Earthlings can so predictable - if you've seen one you've pretty much seen them all.

Edited by eyeball

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