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The Squad Trip To Israel Cancelled

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1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

How keen on Israel does a Palestinian American really have to be? And what of other hotspots in the world e.g. Yugoslavia, South Asia, Northern Ireland. Do immigrants from these places have to watch what they say too? 

 

Not so much keen on Israel as much as aiding and abetting Palestinian terrorism.   They can say what they want, and suffer the consequences.

Immigrants have free speech rights.

As a government policy matter, Israel is a U.S. ally...Palestine is not.

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On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 7:19 PM, egghead said:

 

AOC is not stupid. She is starting to distance herself from that 2 wingnuts.

At one point she said she did not mean where Israel today is, is occupied Palestine unlike the other 2 after being challenged by Pelosi BUT she then backtracked from her backtracking after Pelosi challenged her and reverted back to the very same anti Israel dialogue but at one rally when she was told Jews were there stated she was Jewish.

For me freedom of speech means they can say what they want. However if you are an elected US politician and you support terrorism  and openly challenge any state's right to exist as they have Israel then be prepared to  be challenged,

 That is why these 2 people support BDS and let's not couch what BDS is. BDS was started by an operative in the Palestininian Authority with the express purpose of recruiting students in campuses across the  West to finance their mission. Their mission is not to simply boycott Jaffa oranges. It is the express denial of a Jewish state in pre 1967 Israel using any means necessary including terrorism and violence.

These two congress members couch their references. They both do NOT believe Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state but believe Muslims should have as many Sharia la states as they want. Its time people actually read what these two stand for. 

No US politician has to blindly defend Israel. No Jew like myself anywhere in the world has to blindly defend Israel which Trump's poor choice of words could have been construed to mean and will be by some but I do not beiieve was his intention. That is not the issue. Looking the other way and expecting a country to welcome in politicians who preach their country should not exist was the issue. The US and Canada and all countries screen out people coming to their countries they know will state things that could incite violence or hared against the state. 

I understand what  Trump was saying  although he said it in his illiterate half assed way, and that is as a Jew or an American or as an Israeli but especially anyone, period, politicians that uphold one standard for their people but another for Jews, should be challenged and you bet I agree with him that why would Israelis welcome such people in their country. Trump did not lecture Israel he was simply being his blunt self and his bluntness to Jews should not be misconstrued. This is the same man who once said he did not expect any Jew to vote for him ever given their strong ties to the Democrats. He's made plenty of disparaging comments about Jews and yet he is the first to hire them or have a daughter who is one. The best way to describe Trump is he is rude and intolerant of everyone equally which makes him an ignorant insulting bafoon but not only to just some....so in that sense I can take him a lot more then I can a phony Democrat playing leftist anti Israel trendy sentiment while pretending to be neutral.

That said Trump gave these two idiots exactly what they wanted a platform and victimhood by using his poor choice of words.

As for these two congress people and for that matter Bernie Saunders, all 3 have made statements that have fueled and incited terrorist organized riots on the West Bank and as we speak yet again Hamas is shooting missiles into Israel proper as it incites its people to try crash the border screaming Israel is their ancestral land.

Israel aint about to cater to terrorists, extremists and two people catering to Muslim extremist voters who hate Jews and Israel in the US.

I listened to this Ali woman. She is a gutless liar. When asked directly did she believe Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state anywhere on the planet, she would not answer. As for the other one claiming to be a Palestinian and victim of Israel she openly supports Hamas and Fatah and terrorism and calls it legitimate self defence and she does not believe Israel should exist unless it takes back in anyone who claims they are descended from Palestinians as long as those Palestinians are not Jews and then turn the state into a majority Sunni Muslim state. As for Bernie Saunders he has made some very anti Israeli comments he knew would cater to trendy leftists and incite anti semites and terrorists.

Any political platform that challenges the legitimate right of sufferage of only one ethnic group in the world (Jews)  and is passes it off  as trendy liberal beliefs is bullshit. As some have said on this forum, Democrats have lost control of their members and these wing nuts will get Trump re-elected as moderate middle of the road Democrats don't turn out to vote.

Trump knows exactly what he is doing calling them names. He mobilizes his vote while Democrats see their left wing splinter from its right wing.

Pelosi should have reigned these two in long ago. As for Cortez she got in under unusual circumstances and there is no reason to believe she will win again. She was technically not voted in by the majority of her constituency. Her riding has a lot of blue collar people who do not agree with her elitist university socialism views. She also did not make points putting on fake ethnic accents. She is an immature spoiled millennium however she plays her  looks for publicity. She knows how to flip her hair, stand with her hand on her hip and when to smile or pout for the cameras. If she is not re-elected she will have a career as a CNN anchor and will be on Dancing with the Stars for sure. The US likes its  instant celebrities. She is the Kim Kardashian-JLo of politics.

Edited by Rue

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1. Omar was almost correct. It’s not all about the Benjamins but they are sure as heck matter a great deal to any politician.

2. AIPAC in its modern form was created by Isaiah Kenen, a Canadian who had previously worked for the Israeli government, for the express purpose of circumventing FARA law on foreign agents. Those who claim it is not a foreign agent now must specify when it ceased being one. 

 

 

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On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 2:44 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

1. Omar was almost correct. It’s not all about the Benjamins but they are sure as heck matter a great deal to any politician.

2. AIPAC in its modern form was created by Isaiah Kenen, a Canadian who had previously worked for the Israeli government, for the express purpose of circumventing FARA law on foreign agents. Those who claim it is not a foreign agent now must specify when it ceased being one. 

 

 

Well its a good thing you are there to defend Omar's recycling of the Jews and their money control the US Congress through AIPAC  canard hours before the son went down on the Sabbath.  Lol and  thanks for your "selective" lecture on the origins of AIPAC.

Let's start with the origin of the anti-Semitic canard about Jews and money controlling the US:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/discover/jews-money-anti-semitism-hate-myth-was-born-jewish-museum-london

The canard about AIPAC is constantly rebuked and proven false but hey why not repeat it:

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-antisemitic-myth-of-Jewish-control-is-alive-and-kicking-595998

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/24346

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/jewish-control-of-the-federal-reserve-a-classic-anti-semitic-myth

http://www.danielpipes.org/1011/jewish-control-between-reality-and-myth

As for Spanky's  claim that AIPAC was created to circumvent FARA Law I would like to see his explanation. AIPAC is not a Political Action Committee (PAC). 

But let's back up a second because Omar is not the first nor will be the last to accuse AIPAC of bribing US politicians which she did.

In Omar's case back in  2012, she  sent out on twitter a brilliant message that Israel had “hypnotized” the world. Then after people questioned her for that comment she  back-tracked and stated :  “It’s now apparent to me that I spent lots of energy putting my 2012 tweet in context and little energy in disavowing the anti-semitic trope I unknowingly used, which is unfortunate and offensive.

Then  in Feb. of 2019, defending an anti Israel journalist she stated  “It’s stunning how much time US political leaders spend defending a foreign nation even if it means attacking free speech rights of Americans.” ...before adding...: “It’s all about the Benjamins baby,” complete with a music note emoji to the end of her tweet.

Hey old habits are hard to break you know...But wait when   Batya Ungar-Sargon, asked Omar about what she meant by the all about the Benjamins quote and asked her to explain who is  is paying American politicians to be pro-Israel,  Omar quoted back  “AIPAC!” again advancing the canard AIPAC bribes US politician

As it has been repeated infinitum, AIPAC  IS NOT a political action committee  (PAC)and DOES NOT endorse or give money directly to any politician or polical campaign so please Spanky have Omar tell us which senators and congresspersons were paid by OPAC. So far any article that has accused AIPAC of bribing officials or politicians has never been proven and are in fact opinion pieces with no facts. I can tell you right now if I ask Spanky to produce evidence of AIPAC paying a US politician he will not produce one with any documented proven link.

Let's deal directly with this AIPAC controls Washington statement trotted out continuously by anti Israelis and trendy leftists.

To start with the support of Israel's existence in the US comes from 3 factors:

1Tthe military industrial lobby networks who employ hundreds of thousands of US citizens and generate trillions of dollars from Israeli technological alliances because they have Israeli firms develop their hardware so -if you are going to trot out its all about the Benjamins, how is it AIPAC is singled out for bribes of politicians and yet this network is never discussed or any other lobby group of any other nation?

2-Evangelical and other Christian groups have always had a deep grass roots supported network that supports Israel due to their religious beliefs-never once in the canard of Jewish AIPAC controlling the US is this mentioned;

3-The so called  Jewish vote  would come from the Jewish population which is roughly 6 million Jews (how ironic) or about 2.3% of the total US population-so do the math-even if every Jew was of voting age and voted how does that control the US?

When Omar again was asked how it is only AIPAC concerns her and no other foreign lobby group she again back-tracked and said:

 “Anti-Semitism is real and I am grateful for Jewish allies and colleagues who are educating me on the painful history of anti-Semitic tropes.”

Now why does Omar and for that matter  Spanky  explain how they compared AIPAC in the US with the so called  petro-diplomatic complex or lobby network and tell me who has more money and influence. Please show me how this Petro network was dwarfed by AIPAC in influence  and how this petro lobby network controlled by Muslim nations that have never been pro Israel does NOT influence US foreign policy and is of no concern to Omar and never once been singled out by her? Does Omar speak up about them and how they assure undemocratic corrupt regimes that commit human rights offences and in fact discriminate against Palestinians are of concern to her?

Can we get real with this canard.

Who has more influence Jews or oil executives please tell us Spanky because if its all about the Benjamins why is it only about the Benjamins when it comes to AIPAC and no one else?

That is the point.

 

 

 

 

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You’re building straw men there. As I pointed it, it’s not ALL about the Benjamins. It’s also NOT about control. Omar was wrong about that. It’s about influence. Like any lobby group, AIPAC (and the many organizations it works with) tries to influence policy but it’s success has been so great that it’s in a different category from other groups lobbying for a foreign country. The appropriate way to measure the power of AIPAC and other pro-Israel organizations it works with is to compare them to other foreign lobbyists, not the oil industry. Do congressmen pay more attention to AIPAC Inc. than they do to, say, French, German, British or Saudi lobbyists? Only the Saudis come remotely close. Nancy Pelosi has already rebuked the British over the backstop and has threatened to block any trade deal post-Brexit. That shows how strong the British lobby is these days. 

Should AIPAC be registered as a foreign agent? Here’s the opinion of a former employee:

https://forward.com/opinion/395676/its-time-for-aipac-to-register-as-a-foreign-agent/

 

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Aipac's alleged influence was shown to be a myth the  8 years while Obama was in office. How do you know how much influence the Arab controlled oil lobby has on the US?  Your comments are assumptions based on subjective antecdotal inference. In fact any power Aipac has comes from agreeing with policies that are a military industrial advantage to the US. When they are not aligned with such interests they have no more influencec than any other nation. That is the point. 

 China n  fact has the largest lobby then Britain by size. South Korea, Taiwan, Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, UAE, Britain, Japan all have strong lobbies as do the Cayman Islands and Canada. Please show how you know one is more effective than the other.

To date any assumptions have never been measured with objective standards. The most common assumption has been that if a group spends a lot they must have more influence which is not necessarily accurate for two reasons. To start with lobby groups and Pacs working together are not necessarily known and two the amounts paid and where they go to may be wasted on the wrong people.Pacs not lobby groups pay politicians. 

What we do know is no lobby group simply bribes. It has to set up elaborate networks that use leverage on passing laws based on how many jobs they can generate in an elected member's riding. When Taiwan or South Korea get heavy influence on certain votes it's because they use their military industrial network relationships and so they are no different than Saudi Arabia or Israel.

The US has always until Obama given as much money to Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt and Jordan as it did Israel. Any influence Israel has comes from protecting US interests in the world and witntechnological expertise it gives the US which  the US then uses  to make money for itself.

It's a myth to think anyone controls the US let alone a nation. Control and influence comes from falluances of mutual financial interests that constantly change and evolve with unknown players.

It is simplistic and idiotic to think any organization has the power you claim Aipac has. Obama proved that was a myth and Trump acting as a step and fetch it boy for Putin shows that NATO, Japan and Taiwan and South Korea  have limited influence. You think with Trump sucking up to Kim their powerful lobbies can do a thing?

China controlled and bought out Clinton and Bush Sr. and Jr. How much influence do they now have on the US.Do you or anyone really know?

Aipac's reputation is no different than Mossad's. It's invented by gentiles who think we Jews have super powers. Hey you want to buy into that ancient canard go ahead. Me and my fellow Zioonist we control it all. Well except Kim Kardashian. She is beyond even us.

Edited by Rue

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19 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Over the years, AIPAC, initially a liberal organization, has swung sharply to the right and is now a strong supporter of Netanyahu. 

Aipac has never swung anywhere. In fact  Liberals like you brought up on  subjectve scripts from web sites not actual first hand knowledge have swung extreme right wing buying into recycled neo Nazi scripts you think are new let alone definitive.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rue

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20 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Over the years, AIPAC, initially a liberal organization, has swung sharply to the right and is now a strong supporter of Netanyahu. 

Aipac support's Israel's right to exist as a Jewish nation. You throw out yet another claim with no basis. Aipac supports any leader of that country as if has done in he past not based on the leader of the day but based on the nation's right to exist. The leader changes but the role and support remains the same regardless of the leader.

If you took the time you would find out many Israelis, Jews who suppor iIsrael's right to exist, and even Aipac supported are not all n agreement with everything Netanyahu says or does. That s yet another erroneous stereotype.

 

Edited by Rue

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20 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

You’re building straw men there. As I pointed it, it’s not ALL about the Benjamins. It’s also NOT about control. Omar was wrong about that. It’s about influence. Like any lobby group, AIPAC (and the many organizations it works with) tries to influence policy but it’s success has been so great that it’s in a different category from other groups lobbying for a foreign country. The appropriate way to measure the power of AIPAC and other pro-Israel organizations it works with is to compare them to other foreign lobbyists, not the oil industry. Do congressmen pay more attention to AIPAC Inc. than they do to, say, French, German, British or Saudi lobbyists? Only the Saudis come remotely close. Nancy Pelosi has already rebuked the British over the backstop and has threatened to block any trade deal post-Brexit. That shows how strong the British lobby is these days. 

Should AIPAC be registered as a foreign agent? Here’s the opinion of a former employee:

https://forward.com/opinion/395676/its-time-for-aipac-to-register-as-a-foreign-agent/

 

The issue as to who should be defined as a registered foreign agent and how they interact with pads has been an issue on capital hill for years and is not particular to just Aipac.

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Si Kenen registered as a foreign agent before he founded and later incorporated AIPAC. We have either to assume he carried on in that role or suppose, more implausibly, that he changed tack. Here is a quote from his wiki bio:

Quote

Until 1951, Isaiah Kenen was a registered foreign agent for the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs' "Israel Office of Information" according to Department of Justice documents.[3]

In his biography "Israel's Defense Line", Kenen revealed his transition to an unregistered lobbyist for Israel: "Israelis began looking for a lobbyist to promote the necessary legislation... would I leave the Israeli delegation for six months to lobby on Capitol Hill? There were other questions. Should I continue my registration as an agent of the Israel government? Was it appropriate for an embassy to lobby? Embassies talked to the State Department, and American voters talked to their congressmen."

The Justice Department's Foreign Agents Registration Act section ordered Kenen to continue registering as a foreign agent for Israel if he continued lobbying on its behalf.[4]Kenen never complied with the order, but instead began working on public relations for the American Zionist Council (AZC).

 

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