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Doug Ford nixes Wynne's sex education program in Ontario schools.

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6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yes, making kids feel ashamed of their sexuality should be out of parent's control.  Normalizing normal human behavior through media us a good thing imo.  Instead of having kids grow up loathing themselves and hiding a huge part of themselves from family and friends, they can now look forward to acceptance within Western society, even if some people are still stuck in the dark ages.

Kids I knew experimented, even without media portraying same-sex relationships.  We didn't even know what homosexual meant: merely practicing with each other to be ready for boyfriends in a few years time.  Or, in the case of one girl, practicing what her daddy taught her.  

I have gay in my family. I'm fully aware of the hardships same sex can bring. Like my Aunt who was in a long same sex relationship (10 years). When her partner got artificially inseminated and had a child then left her for a man, she had no rights to that child. Don't bring sexual abuse into this conversation. Stay on topic please.

Kids that are not born gay didn't experiment in my world growing up. Let's see Dia how our world changes with your thinking. There will be more females in my opinion going both ways. Of course, this will have no consequences according to you? The female body is way more attractive then the male (in my opinion) and I don't see things improving as you think. 

These things should be taught at home. As a parent, I don't feel my children should have been taught that it is ok to swing both ways. If one had have been gay, of course we would have been accepting of it and welcomed that with love and support.

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10 minutes ago, Teena said:

There will be more females in my opinion going both ways. Of course, this will have no consequences according to you? The female body is way more attractive then the male (in my opinion) and I don't see things improving as you think. 

I have no idea what you perceive as a problem with bisexual women, or how that's related to their attractiveness relative to men.

 

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On 8/30/2019 at 11:10 AM, betsy said:

 

Hahahaha...... Here comes the Jesus-card!  hahaha :D

He's booted Wynne out - that's all that matters!  :)

Here goes the Jewish guy again defending Christians. Christians are not necessarily against sex education. Some are some are not. It depends on how fundamentalist they are and that goes for anyone of any religion. Jesus card. Bah. What would be wrong with any politician showing some basis decency  humility and passion?

Edited by Rue

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2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I have no idea what you perceive as a problem with bisexual women, or how that's related to their attractiveness relative to men.

 

Choice of sexual partner is not sex education its a subject of human relations. There is and should remain a difference and not be considered one and the same. Learning about the functions of the body and discussing sexual behaviour and sexual choice of partners are distinct topics. Sexology is distinct from learning about human body functions and parts until certain people with specific agendas want them combined and therein becomes the problem. Combining the two should happen further on not at 5,6.

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On 8/30/2019 at 9:47 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. OMG you are right, I forgot !  Ha ha ha ha ha ha.  Doug's government keeps on delighting me :D

2. It's all beside the point.  There's no pragmatism to any of this.  They have Jesus as their trump card if logic ever starts to make them uncomfortable...

Anyway, unfortunately for Ford he has to govern in reality and campaign speeches are a distant memory.  I wouldn't be surprised if he quit soon.

Jesus as the trump card? Is that anything like leftists with their "righteousness" as a trump card? You think Jesus is only used by chubby? Really? You do not think leftists use their dogma and ideas as Jesus cards? The dogma of the left is recycled Christian missionary script right down to the smugness. Never met a leftist who did not remind me of Jerry Fallwell. They have seen Jesus and preach his sermons according to Jesus Wynne, Jesus Trudeau, Jesus Obama. JesusMorneau. Leftists are self appointed Jesus disciplies. They can't imagine being questioned on their mission to save the world. One only need read it on this forum. Me I guess I am a satanist only I met Jesus and we were playing hockey and he have me a real wicked elbow and I wacked him good on his shins and yes he swore and I know for a fact he bleeds just like me and played all positions but goalie. He said only depressed people are goalies.

I have to agree. The pads weighed us down. The point is-Ford no more uses the righteous card than anyone else. If anything he revels in being bad, i.e., Satan if you must use biblical terms.

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14 minutes ago, Rue said:

Choice of sexual partner is not sex education its a subject of human relations. 

Sexual attraction isn't a choice.  If a person feels equal sexual attraction to males and females, why is that less valid than an attraction to one or the other?

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17 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I have no idea what you perceive as a problem with bisexual women, or how that's related to their attractiveness relative to men.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that there will be more bi-sexual/swinging then ever before. Who needs a man anymore? Lol We'll just use you for your sperm ! I dunno.

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6 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Sexual attraction isn't a choice.  If a person feels equal sexual attraction to males and females, why is that less valid than an attraction to one or the other?

If young people are being taught and seeing this behaviour, of course sexual attraction is going to happen. Duh. What we see everyday influences our choices. That's why they hide cigarettes at the stores now. We don't want to influence our young that smoking is ok and good for you. But let's put females with females and males with males making out on TV .... So screwed up!

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22 minutes ago, Teena said:

I guess what I'm saying is that there will be more bi-sexual/swinging then ever before. Who needs a man anymore? Lol We'll just use you for your sperm ! I dunno.

No please do not use mine. Its full of toxic  crap. Yech. I think if I impregnated someone they would probably give birth to an old tire. Not good.

As for bi or gay or straight, people are what they are. They can be to a certain extent influenced but your sexuality is like the movement of water. it flows where it naturallywas intended to go and in each individual is a predestined path for that flow and you know when the path is flowly naturally. You have an incredible psyche that will tell you when you do things that are not right for you. Trust it. Believe in your inner self to guide you. Sorry I do not mean to preach but you sound like you went through some bad crap I did too.  Ease up on yourself a bit their kiddo.

People can and do find out who they really are despite all the noise around them. Some days after all the crap I have seen in adults I would love to keep us away from anyone under 30 forever..but you can't..you have to trust people to find their way and the best thing we can be is non judgmental and step in when we see someone being unfairly abused, bullied or pressured by an adult if its life threatening or we see pain reactions. That's a fine line between questioning what a parent wants to teach their children at home and it is charged.

There are some things I wish parents did not teach their children but that is not my right to interfere because I disagree. If there is pain or life threat yes or parents forcing children into sexual acts or acts with others then yes. I h ave made mistakes intervening on behalf of the law and apologized and then other times regret not having intervened because the law did not allow me. Its a tough one.

Yer ok as long as you don't waste your energy, emotions, heart, passion, thoughts on hateful people or people who need to tell you or others who God is and what is right. You know those answers inside. When they come out to you, is when you want them to.

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1 hour ago, Teena said:

I guess what I'm saying is that there will be more bi-sexual/swinging then ever before. Who needs a man anymore? Lol We'll just use you for your sperm ! I dunno.

Most people are heterosexual.  Some are homosexual, some are bisexual and some are asexual.  Sexuality is one of the basic human instincts, along with breathing, eating and drinking and people have killed themselves because their instinct was so at odds with what their family/community would accept.  To suggest that such a basic part of a person can be changed by school posters or learning about how people are different in their sexuality is ludicrous.

Lucky for bisexual people throughout history that they could at least appear to be normal without having to suppress all of their entire sexual desires.

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9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Most people are heterosexual.  Some are homosexual, some are bisexual and some are asexual.  Sexuality is one of the basic human instincts, along with breathing, eating and drinking and people have killed themselves because their instinct was so at odds with what their family/community would accept.  To suggest that such a basic part of a person can be changed by school posters or learning about how people are different in their sexuality is ludicrous.

Lucky for bisexual people throughout history that they could at least appear to be normal without having to suppress all of their entire sexual desires.

Well we can agree to disagree :)

I would never consider a bi-sexual person to be lucky. I know of enough women that were married to men for x amount of time, have children and now have switched sides. Some are worse off but I certainly don't see anyone more happy. I think it can get complicated.

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On 12/11/2019 at 8:22 AM, dialamah said:

People kill themselves because of gender dysphoria.  Just because hardly anybody talked about it in the 90s doesn't mean it didn't exist.  Are you really sure that young people killing themselves is a better outcome than making other people "uncomfortable"?

Gender dysphoria is not naturual. It's a culural phenomenon that's programed into nieve people's heads. How come none of the inuit want to get sex changes? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that they havn't been exposed to extream lgbt. There are 39000 people in nunavut, and I bet you not a single person is transgender. 

Why is it that it's mostly people from liberal cities that are interested in becoming shemales?

Maybe because it's a form rebelion againt hetrosexuality and authority? Maybe it's become the entertainment industry stands to make a buck, promoting reality tv and drag queens.

Over-tolerance is a threat. If were not careful, incest and pedophila will be normalized next. We already have an established sub-culture that teaches people to stick bugs in their uretha for sexual pleasure.

Some people may be brainwashed into believing their in the wrong body, but the suicide rates get far worse after they take hormones. 40% of people who become transgender end up commiting suicide, so if you defend their right to become transger, you're promoting a higher suicide rate?

We have become a culture, that is afraid to say no. Saying no is tough-love. We need to bring tough-love back in society, instead of everybody going along, to get along.

Edited by ProudConservative

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On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 4:14 AM, ProudConservative said:

Gender dysphoria is not natural. .

I EDITED THIS ON DEC.15/19

How do  you know that? 

The term "natural" simply means something caused by nature and not made or caused by humankind. 

Human behavior is complex.  Using your logic if gender dysphoria is not "natural" then necessarily all human behavior is not natural. If that is the case what methodology could you use that differentiates non human made behavior?  None exists. However what neurology, psychiatry, psychology, genetics, all agree on is that human  behavior may be  either genetically predisposed and is also earned and there is no clear line between the two as they are often inter-mixed. What we also know is genetic evolution and learned behavior can be adaptive (positive) or maladaptive (negative) to survival of the species known as homo sapiens and individual members of homo sapiens.

What we do know is that "gender" is a basic element that goes  into the criteria you and I use to shape our individual personality and sense of self. We usually learn our basic gender by comparing ourselves to our father, mother and siblings. This gender identity is referred to as "biological sex identity) and  is determined based on the appearance of the infant usually at birth based on their exterior genitals. If they have both, then parents have to decide which one will be pursued or wait further to see what happens.

The condition of having two sets of genitals (hermaphrodite) is obviously an issue. It is natural in the sense that the person born with both genitals did not themselves create them, they were born that way due to chemical reasons associated with hormones and other processes.So biological sex is not ALWAYS determined based on the appearance of an infant at birth.

Gender dysphoria is a condition where someone feels the opposite gender of their body. It should NOT be confused with sexual preference of choice of partner to have sex with. For example, a woman may have an anatomy and physical features of a woman but may feel like a man underneath and identify herself as such but her sexual preference may not be knowGender dysphoria is  not a simple one size fits all concept where you don't like your penis or vagina. Its far more complex that.

People with a strong and persistent desire to live as the sex are that their physical one, may have such desires for many reasons and not necessarily learn them.  People don't just wake up one morning and ask to cut their penis off or turn their vagina into a penis.They go through years of anxiety, questioning and then no reputable professional doctor will change their identity until they go through a very strict screening and psychoanalysis including learning to live as the opposite gender before being operated on.People with this condition say they  feel trapped inside a body that does not match their gender identity.Not all such people get a sex change. Some learn to live as cross dressers or as gay or lesbian. So what role our media has in shaping peoples' values in this regard is again complex. It does appear at times to be excessive in either religious extremist values or politically correct extremist values.

What I do not hear in discussions on transgender operations is that sex change is dangerous. It can kill, cause cancer, and has some very serious side effects that cause pain and suffering and so people who undertake it sacrifice their own safety. So you decide what that means. Some of you will say to do this means you have to have fortitude and guts, others will say it means you are disturbed. I don't judge I just know its no cakewalk. I discuss it in clinical terms not in judgmental terms. Not my right to morally judge others unless they want to break the law and use sex as a way to commit crime.

I also personally believe children up until puberty should be left alone and free to be asexual and not feel they have to define themselves as gay, straight, etc. I would argue how they are raised is complicated and can be impacted on by their parents, religion, ethnic values and schools.  I argue we should simply teach children the parts of their body, safety and hygiene which the curriculum does and I agree with. Again Bubber Miley made a false statement saying I rejected the curriculum in place. No only parts of it.

I don't agree wit parts of the Levin curriculum which presumes it is acceptable to teach (indoctrinate) children in kindergarten or grade 1, 2, 3 what homosexuality or transgenderism is. To me those assumptions are based on adult projections of sexual thought onto children so why be surprised Levin is a pedophile. A child must feel free to learn such things ON THEIR OWN with their parents and/or loved ones or people their parents choose out of school to guide them, NOT adults with political agendas to teach what is "normal".

I am not comfortable with sexualizing children and then couching it and rationalizing it by saying it is done  to protect these children. I challenge that.. 

I believe our job as adults and parents  is to wait until we are asked by our children and not push ourselves onto children in the name of our politically correct or religious or any other righteousness or moral agenda.  Let children be innocent. Let them be children without a need to sexualize issues until they are ready to ask questions. Stop shoving it on them.

For me there is no difference between pedophile Ben Levin imposing his sex views on children or a religious extremist doing the same in the name of his or her religion.

Most children I had to work with were damaged because we adults would not respect their privacy and we imposed ourselves on them.

I ask Liberals   how is your agenda any different than those of pedophiles or religious extremists? You think you are tolerant and defending tolerance? You think you are infallible?  Take a step back. Everyone take a step back right or left of the issue and put the best interests of children not your own beliefs, first.

 

 

 

Edited by Rue

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On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:54 AM, dialamah said:

Yes, making kids feel ashamed of their sexuality should be out of parent's control.  Normalizing normal human behavior through media us a good thing imo.

So what will you do send in thought police? What test will you use to determine how and if they "make them feel ashamed" and will you put these parents in jail? Will you take their children from them? "Normalizing human behavior through the media"? What does that mean/ How do you normalize anything let alone do it through the media. What criteria do you use for what is normal, what processes will you use. Sounds like something right out of a totalitarian state or illuminati-Satan conspiracy. Will you implant things in our brains?   You use exactly the same reasoning aboriginal children were taken from their parents less than 50 years ago in this country.

 Your advocacy of  state intervention as to parenting sounds familiar. In fact its been done by many,  Hitler, Stalin,  Ceausescu, The Duche Party of North Korea, the People's Republic of China, Sharia law states.

Thanks but keep your totalitarian desires to impose what you consider "normal" on children away from me. Been there done that. All you need is a little red book or a brown shirt.

Edited by Rue

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This is in response to both Michael Harder and Bubber Miley's comments.

The continued apology for convicted pedophile Ben Levin by Liberal apologists on this thread and tdenial of his role in drafting educational curriculum comes from a denial by then Education Minister Wynne who upon finding out Levin was charged with child sex offences quickly tried to distance herself and his curriculum she championed from his criminal charges.

“Ministers and deputy ministers do not write curriculum,” ..“Curriculum is written by subject experts in conversation and in consultation with a wide array of people — and curriculum is reviewed and written on an ongoing basis,”

The pro-Liberal Toronto Star reported the above and deliberately omitted the final part of her statement where she then later contradicted herself and in fact said Levin had “oversight” in regards to the curriculum.

Also it is public domain and fact that  in a 2009 newsletter Levin stated contrary to what Wynne tried to say that:

“Dear colleagues, I am writing to provide an update on our sector’s agenda ... I will be filling the ADM (assistant deputy minster) position previously held by George Zegarac ... The division formerly headed by George Zegarac will be renamed as ‘Learning and Curriculum.’ It will have responsibilty for curriculum and for Special Education including Provincial Schools.”

He also stated on April 6, 2009:

“Today, the ministry released its new equity and inclusive education strategy paper ... This province wide strategy has been a priority for our Minister of Education Kathleen Wynne and me.”

He also stated on June 24, 2009, the following:

 “Realizing the Promise of Diversity: Ontario’s Equity and Inclusive Education Strategy” (the curriculum) sets out a “vision for an equitable and inclusive education system.” ….“the principles of equity and inclusive education should be embedded into all aspects of board and high school operations including program, employment, research, curriculum, resources, instructional and assessment practices.”

He also stated in an  interview with OISE’s winter 2009 newsletter,

“I was the deputy minister of education. In that role, I was the chief civil servant. I was responsible for the operation of the Ministry of Education and everything that they do; I was brought in to implement the new education policy.”

So to try back paddle and pretend his role in the creation of the curriculum is absurd. Furthermore the curriculum contains what is called “The Equity and Inclusive Education Strategy" a phrase and concept Levin created. This is a strategy Levin wrote about in numerous texts and articles claims  its purpose os to  teach children certain values  to combat, “gender based violence, homophobia, sexual harassment and sexual behavior in the classroom". It comes directly from Levin and was placed in the 2010 and 2015 curriculums and comes directly from Levin back in 2009.

Here is the ciurriculum Levin wrote and continues to advocate and formed the basis of his 2019 and 2015 curriculums:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242526006_CURRICULUM_POLICY_AND_THE_POLITICS_OF_WHAT_SHOULD_BE_LEARNED_IN_SCHOOLS

Here are two other of many sources of where the curriculum of Ben Levin comes from:

http://www.oecd.org/education/school/38692676.pdf

http://michaelfullan.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/13396080290.pdf

Also  Bubber Miley made a false accusation that I accused people in the government other than Levin of being a pedphile. He also went on to contend because I report public fact, that Levin is a registered convicted sex offender that this is libel.

To be crystal clear I never called or suggested anyone but Levin on this thread was or is a registered pedophile. The fact is Levin is and my stating that is fact and so can not be libel. For Bubber than to claim I am a lawyer and should know this is true, and that is why I know he is wrong, and stating fact is not libelous nor can it be.

Levin was  convicted of 3 charges including possessing child pornography and counselling sex crimes. Its relevant because this man wrote an agenda claiming it protects children from sexual predators when the very person who wrote it was and remains one. It is of course relevant and we need to challenge whether his pedophile perceptions coloured its concepts, perceptions and judgements about sexuality, sexual behaviour and children.

The court records showed that  Levin in 2010 was a regular on a sex site engaging in fantasies about raping children and engaging in incest with children. He stated he and his wife liked to have sex with children and was interested in talking to other parents also interested in the same.  He counselled one person to rape a child and shared fantasies about sex with his wife and children. In 2 years he made 144 connections and had 29 subscribers he would up-date with images and stories of sex with children he would post. He had over 5,000 viewers and 44 who labelled him their “favourite”. He also went on other pedophile sites.  The police found over 1,750 contacts and Levin kept record of their sexual preferences. They found comments from him boasting he was securing access to children on business trips. 

 Levin is fact out of jail and continues to defend and exhibit his pedophile beliefs:

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/depraved-world-view-of-ben-levin-continues-on-parole

http://www.theinterim.com/issues/society-culture/ben-levin-defends-child-porn/

 

 

 

Edited by Rue

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