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What to do about China


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2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Then move it to Bangladesh.  Or wherever.

Manufacturing jobs aren't coming back to Canada, nor should they.  Making our products more expensive means they can't compete globally, and in the end making Canada poorer.  If you want to know why North American car companies have been failing over the last few decades, blame the union manufacturing jobs.

Canada and US's problem is that for decades we've been feeding the rise of a new global superpower in China when everyone knew this was going to be the result.  Now we're paying the price for our greed.

What is wrong with manufacturing jobs? Our products don't need to compete globally. You think exporting raw materials at huge discounts is making us rich? Why is our debt growing exponentially then? 

You're missing one huge limitation, the planet is finite. It's time for creative sulutions, not just move the problem to another location. 

How does that saying go again? 

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.” Albert Einstein. 

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9 hours ago, onlythetruthmatters said:

yes I know you didn't .....I agree india is out.......I,m for trade....But why not set some rules that everyone has to follow to enter a trade agreement.....

The amount of trade should not be enough to put our nation at risk unilaterally. We are a nation that produces very little, but we've got a lot of trees and fresh water. That is what we pimp out to the world, we make nothing just sell the raw resource from nature. There it is, go take some and sell to the white man. Them come in ship.And Liberals are just as much a part of the resource sellout as anyone else, despite all virtue signalling.

Canada's road to self dependence will take a while and cost more than just buying the masks. Because the Chinese can do anything they want to produce it, and we do not object even if they abuse others to make our cheap goods. We all know this. Some complained, but we still allow it to continue.

Therefore we are the hypocrites, and we are just as much to blame as China. What to do about China? Fix Canada.

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26 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The amount of trade should not be enough to put our nation at risk unilaterally. We are a nation that produces very little, but we've got a lot of trees and fresh water. That is what we pimp out to the world, we make nothing just sell the raw resource from nature. There it is, go take some and sell to the white man. Them come in ship.And Liberals are just as much a part of the resource sellout as anyone else, despite all virtue signalling.

Canada's road to self dependence will take a while and cost more than just buying the masks. Because the Chinese can do anything they want to produce it, and we do not object even if they abuse others to make our cheap goods. We all know this. Some complained, but we still allow it to continue.

Therefore we are the hypocrites, and we are just as much to blame as China. What to do about China? Fix Canada.

https://oec.world/en/profile/country/can

 

Trading is not really a major issue, although I'd agree we should trade less with China. 

Fixing China requires a strong hand and frankly I don't think its possible without full cooperation from NATO.  

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2 hours ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

What is wrong with manufacturing jobs? Our products don't need to compete globally.

A lot of them do, and most Canadian products sold in Canada have to compete with products from other countries.  And Canadian product #1 manufactured in Canada has to compete with Canadian product #2 that's manufactured in China or Mexico.  If stuff manufactured in Canada is more expensive, you're at a significant disadvantage, your profit margins are lower.

Canadians need jobs, they don't necessarily have to be on an assembly line.

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1 hour ago, Cannucklehead said:

Trading is not really a major issue, although I'd agree we should trade less with China. 

Fixing China requires a strong hand and frankly I don't think its possible without full cooperation from NATO.  

 

Canada's economy is far more dependent on export trade than is China....30% vs. 20%.

...and China's trade is far more diversified with other nations, NATO or otherwise.

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8 minutes ago, Thinkinoutsidethebox said:

These statements are very true. But nobody in charge is interested in fixing Canada, herein lies the problem. 

Oh indeed. Today's politicians are not leaders, they are a hindrance at best.

There is not a Jefferson among them.

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Trump has the balls to do this, so should we:  https://www.zdnet.com/article/washington-aims-clean-network-program-directly-at-stopping-china-and-huawei/

"United States Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced on Wednesday the extension of Washington's 5G Clean Path program to encompass carriers, app stores, cloud computing, and subsea cables under the Clean Network umbrella.

Pompeo said the extension was needed to guard against "aggressive intrusions" by the Chinese Communist Party, and called other nations to create a "Clean fortress" around citizen's data.

...With apps, Pompeo said the US will remove "untrusted applications" from US mobile app stores and prevent Chinese phone markers from pre-installing "trusted" apps on these app stores."

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6 hours ago, eyeball said:

No you weren't, you were rolling your eyes and laughing your ass off at the suggestion like any other obedient conservative.

And yet here I am saying things about protecting nature and helping the helpless.

Believe whatever you want, so long as you dont have to leave your little comfort zone.

I’m the bad man. That way you and  people like Dialama can blame someone else for everything thats wrong with the world.

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Food. That is the key.They go after our farmers knowing we wont do anything. But we should be working over time to find other markets and hopefully cut them off. Starve the population , then they revolt.

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15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

A lot of them do, and most Canadian products sold in Canada have to compete with products from other countries.  And Canadian product #1 manufactured in Canada has to compete with Canadian product #2 that's manufactured in China or Mexico.  If stuff manufactured in Canada is more expensive, you're at a significant disadvantage, your profit margins are lower.

Canadians need jobs, they don't necessarily have to be on an assembly line.

And while everything including sunshine is now made in China, the western world can change that... what i mean is anything made in china can be made in any country that has a huge labor force that is poorly paid, Like most of the Asian country's, for a small investment. I would much prefer building up anyone's economy other than china's. It would be good if we diversify our production across the globe....We need to incentivize our major companies to shift production to more friendly nations. We also need to look at all the products we deem as critical such as medical machinery, and drugs as an example and bring production back here. And start slapping tariffs on other products we do not have trade agreements with so they are not so cheap...

We need to convince Canadians that quality has more value than the cheap ass quality often found in Chinese products .

Edited by Army Guy
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3 hours ago, PIK said:

Food. That is the key.They go after our farmers knowing we wont do anything. But we should be working over time to find other markets and hopefully cut them off. Starve the population , then they revolt.

'Find other markets'... seems like maybe replacing a market of 1 billion+ could be difficult to do.  Really, what is more likely is loss of business and loss of revenue.

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

1. And while everything including sunshine is now made in China, the western world can change that... what i mean is anything made in china can be made in any country that has a huge labor force that is poorly paid,

2. Like most of the Asian country's, for a small investment. I would much prefer building up anyone's economy other than china's.

3. We need to convince Canadians that quality has more value than the cheap ass quality often found in Chinese products .

1.  I Googled average industrial wage in China and in 2018 it was $13,750.  By my math it's about $6.50 an hour
2. The question is whether you want to tear down Canada's in order to do the same to China, ie. engage in LOSE-LOSE games
3. I get why you are going this tack, but the NDP and left-of-centre politics tried it in the 1980s and 1990s and it didn't work.

I had my dewey eyes stung by pragmatism when I saw the power of global trade.  Make them better citizens, for sure, and maybe trade wars can help achieve that.  I think culture war would be a better idea, as everyone in the world knows that the 'west' is best.

 

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13 hours ago, eyeball said:

No you weren't, you were rolling your eyes and laughing your ass off at the suggestion like any other obedient conservative.

Lol, you should talk about obedient.  Now go hide under your bed like the government tells you to!  Covid is still out there! :lol:

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10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  I Googled average industrial wage in China and in 2018 it was $13,750.  By my math it's about $6.50 an hour
2. The question is whether you want to tear down Canada's in order to do the same to China, ie. engage in LOSE-LOSE games
3. I get why you are going this tack, but the NDP and left-of-centre politics tried it in the 1980s and 1990s and it didn't work.

I had my dewey eyes stung by pragmatism when I saw the power of global trade.  Make them better citizens, for sure, and maybe trade wars can help achieve that.  I think culture war would be a better idea, as everyone in the world knows that the 'west' is best.

 

1. I made several attempts to goggle wage comparisons, and lets say the results are not very consistent , so for augment sake we will use your source, 6.50 an hour is a very good wage for the Asian area. A lot more than i would have thought. It is having an adverse effect on china's economy... by making it's products more expensive.

2. 3. going back as far as 2012 perhaps even farther https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/40-firms-moving-factories-china-article-1.1183781, and today with Trump stirring the pot it has brought even more attention and perhaps more companies moving out of China.https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/18/more-than-50-companies-reportedly-pull-production-out-of-china-due-to-trade-war.html

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/defense-national-security/cheap-manufacturing-be-damned-sentiment-builds-for-moving-u-s-companies-out-of-china. and now this China is joining the ranks of foreign companies  moving off shore, they trying to get around trumps trade war by producing and shipping to America via a 3 rd country. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-trends/Goodbye-China-Chinese-manufacturers-follow-multinationals-out-the-door

My point is the tear down has already started, the question should be will Canadian companies join, perhaps all the government needs is to introduce incentives to get the ball rolling slowly. and while it may not have worked back in the day, maybe it is time for this change today, and it does not have to be a total stampede, but maybe enough to diversify our manufacture base. Starting with medical equipment,  and our drug supply.

I think we are passed trade and culture wars, and have started upon another cold war with china, as more and more western countries see china as a threat to their economy, and security all lead by the US

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

the question should be will Canadian companies join, perhaps all the government needs is to introduce incentives to get the ball rolling slowly. and while it may not have worked back in the day, maybe it is time for this change today, and it does not have to be a total stampede, but maybe enough to diversify our manufacture base.

Canada will not do shit against the Chinaman. We are too weak and scared. Just look at how this government shakes in their booties whenever the Chinese make snarling noises. Canada, you have something to say to us?
- Another Canadian on death row. And another. And another...

If Meng gets sent to USA they will be put quickly to death one-two-three. Then the legendary Chinese efficiency will be on full display as a lesson for Canada to see.

 

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