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7 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Still can't provide links?

Since I don't trust your bible college sources, I looked and found this:  

Conservatives authorized Chinese police-owned company to run visa centre: Blair

When you were quote-mining, you also missed this part at the end of the article:

"It was signed in 2008. So it's been in place for 12 years now and so its origin and who actually authorized this contract predates me or my government and frankly my knowledge."

Incidentally, I inadvertently didn't post that part but I agree it should be mentioned too.  Whichever government did it, I don't agree with it.  My criticism was directed at government, period.  I am against that decision.  But I wonder why the Liberals allowed it to continue the past five years.  Why didn't they stop it?  Conservatives were no better than Liberals at protecting Canadians from China.  Didn't the Liberals spend a vast amount of money on the Asia Infrastructure Bank too?  Helping fund projects in China?   But Liberals seem to have a special love for Communist China.

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This story has nothing and everything to do with Canada. It's about China's over the top response when the general manager of the Houston Rockets tweeted out a simple little support emoji for the peop

Harper actually worked for a living, and rose from the mail room to being an economist - getting his bachelor's and master's while working.  Most of all, he was NOT a goddamned lawyer and as far away

Everything China has exhibited to the world shows it as being far more vicious and brutal to its own people than the US has ever dreamed of doing. Further, while the US once threw its weight around mo

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14 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

And you think our goofy Conservative opposition leader is going to do any more than spew more hot air.

 

Not my concern...your domestic politics and squabbles are your own, plus you seem to make time for worrying about American leaders and politics as well.   Justin Trudeau is a failure in most any context, except for legalized cannabis and dopers.

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1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Not my concern...your domestic politics and squabbles are your own, plus you seem to make time for worrying about American leaders and politics as well.   Justin Trudeau is a failure in most any context, except for legalized cannabis and dopers.

We should have continued attempting to set an independent course in world affairs, rather than sidle up to the inheritors of the Global Empire. America is the attack dog of globalized capitalism. You're stuck debt-financing a ruinously bloated and still expanding military-industrial complex because it's the primary stick the global oligarchs wield to enforce the rules of global capitalism today. *

*I could get into the F-35 Debacle ...the 1.7 Trillion debt sinkhole that has led Air Force planners to determine they need to go right back to the drawing board and order some new F-16's and get to work on a real stealth fighter project that isn't a hybrid crossover like the F-35 has been trying to do for the past 30 years. Old saying, sometimes you try to please everybody and you please no one! So, if the Air Force pulls their plug on the project, what does the Navy and the Army do with their modified versions of the same plane? 

Years ago, shrewd outside observers were warning that the F-35 Project was a giant, complicated and sophisticated white elephant that wouldn't serve much useful purpose, other than burning money with jet fuel!

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

Funny that all the news networks and newspapers haven't been able to fit the story in with their regular news coverage.

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51 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

How many US vets were sickened and died from exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam? Great idea, drop chemicals to defoliate an entire jungle so local peasants can't hide, and then spend decades denying that there were any longterm side effects! A more limited version of this were the Burn Pits in Western Iraq, which killed a lot of Americans along with thousands of locals. Dimwit Pres Biden's eldest son being one of the victims!  But Smokin Joe still won't admit it or take responsibility for supporting that and every other US foreign war just to pad his resume a little more.

Perhaps a better question would be How many Canadians died from exposure to agent orange, CFB Gagetown, NB  is where this chemical was developed, Did you also know there is still a few Canadian military vets and their families suing the Federal government for compensation. No party has agree to see everyone who had a part in this chemical cluster fu** compensated, yours or mine...

The idea was a great idea, from a military stand point( jungle warfare), no place to hide easy target...and it was not the locals that were the problem, it was the VC and NVA that was the problem.

Burn pits have been ongoing for as long as militaries have been on the move, including Canada's, and in a war zone how much time and effort do you think a soldier puts into something that can have long terms effects ..." like burn pits" In KAF they were just over 50,000 soldiers on that base, the raw sewage plant was a massive open air lagoon, with summer temps averaging 55 degrees plus, you could smell that on every corner of the camp. it's not until you get back home that family doctors warn about exposure... everyday my  main focus was getting home to see my family, my kids, not how much bad air i was breathing....but rather what could kill me short term, 

when everyday we had to worry about getting blown up, by Vehicle mounted IED's, people mounted  suicide vests, or just plain IED's not to mention getting shot at by every dick with a gun this happened every day, 3 or 4 times each day...... it was not if we were going to get hit, it was when we were going to get hit and by what....there were other things like depleted uranium, toxic wpn fumes, white phosphorus wpns , or here is a good one, how about carbon monoxide poisonings because there was so much armor placed around your truck or vehicle it actually funneled it to the inside of the vehicle, within hours you would have massive headaches, and puking, the cure was to stick your head out of the vehicle, which kind of defeats the purpose of armor right...........not to mention all the snakes and spiders, rabid dogs, goats, donkeys ,attack roosters not to mention the other millions ways to die... But hey here is the final kicker.... many people from the the left side like to use all these excuses to show how dangerous a modern battle field can be.... and yet when it comes time to stand up for our vets where are they, there concern seems to drop when you mention our soldiers....it is after all,  them who know first hand how bad combat can really be, it is them who carry those scars for a long time... but when it comes down to it i was never about my country, or it's citizens... it was about the guy on the right and left of me, for those guys i would die for in a second...and for the haters , i would not cross the road to piss on them if you were on fire...

Yes it was tragic that civilians died at the hands of coalition troops mistakes, but where is your disgust at how many were killed by the terrorist , did you know that 80 to 90 % of all Afghans killed where killed by these terrorist, most of these terrorist are not even from Afghanistan.  try to goggle on just what methods they used to kill women and children, what they used to do to families that dared to send their girls to school, or how they skinned a man alive and left him staked out in the sun for us to find, because we had asked a question on how to get to the next town....or how a terrorist strapped 20 lbs of explosive to a 5 year old and sent him peddling his bike toward our Vehicle check point , all that was left of him was shin bones and feet still strapped to sandals....we caught the guy in a market, handed him over to the ANP (police) they wrapped him in barbed wire and drug him down the street behind their truck screaming the entire way... just another day in Afghanistan...., 

You can call the Americans what ever you want to,  it is after all a Canadian right of passage... I was proud to serve along side every American soldier that we came across. Atleast we could count on them to have our backs, when our own nation had forgotten us...  

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3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

This point highlights several disadvantages that China faces...the West has several allied nations with more advanced nuclear warhead designs and more accurate delivery systems  that can leverage those designs.   The west also is deploying credible ballistic missile defense systems (with or without Canada).  China is playing catch-up for land, sea, and air capabilities while trying to maintain a very large conventional army to fight a 20th century ground war that dominates its historical experience....transitioning to modern American/Western force structure concepts has not been without problems and limitations. 

China has another nuclear weapons problem...India, which is hell bent on funding and deploying a robust nuclear triad right on China's doorstep. 

Playing superpower with the big boys is not going to be easy...or cheap.  As China confronts such realities, one would expect more interest in arms limitations talks (Chinese pragmatism...not moral debate).

 

As we know, the US had a credible ABM system as far back as the 1960s that was too effective as far as the MAD proponents were concerned. That Sprint missile still holds the velocity record, I believe. 100g acceleration. That was to use an enhanced radiation warhead for those close-in intercepts...the W66. One of those neutron-flux fry the warhead's electronics sort of deals.

Red China seems capable of matching the US eventually in all the various areas...at a big price. Their Type 094 Jin seems quite the capable rig. Six of those out there somewhere...apparently. Solid fueled ballistic missiles which aren't very accurate by accounts...but do carry a 1 megaton or larger warhead. So generally a 2nd strike thing.

Historically, Chinese...both Communist and Nationalist were terrible soldiers, pilots and sailors. In WW2 the Japanese used to slaughter them wholesale. Korea, they died in great heaps. We assume things have improved somewhat over the years. But, it's hard to say. 

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Perhaps a better question would be How many Canadians died from exposure to agent orange, CFB Gagetown, NB  is where this chemical was developed, Did you also know there is still a few Canadian military vets and their families suing the Federal government for compensation. No party has agree to see everyone who had a part in this chemical cluster fu** compensated, yours or mine...

The idea was a great idea, from a military stand point( jungle warfare), no place to hide easy target...and it was not the locals that were the problem, it was the VC and NVA that was the problem.

Problem here is the Vietcong were locals living in the South, who saw themselves as fighting foreign invaders in their country. And until the Tet Offensive near the end of the War, the NVA was not a significant factor in the fighting. The rice farmers and village locals all wanted the big, smelly, aggressive foreigners who spoke a foreign language out of their homes. As with "terrorists" or "insurgents" in Iraq or Afghanistan etc., these operations follow a recipe to create enemies even where they didn't exist before! Go in to a strange place, kill a bunch of people, and see how the others react to having you around!

Aside from the oft-quoted 55,000 US combat death toll, there were an estimated 3 million Vietnamese casualties of the War. That was one of the points so many P.O.'d former antiwar activists made about the Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam War a couple of years ago. His presentation would make the viewer assume that US combatants were the only lives that counted, and the locals didn't have a right to be there!

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Burn pits have been ongoing for as long as militaries have been on the move, including Canada's, and in a war zone how much time and effort do you think a soldier puts into something that can have long terms effects ..." like burn pits" In KAF they were just over 50,000 soldiers on that base, the raw sewage plant was a massive open air lagoon, with summer temps averaging 55 degrees plus, you could smell that on every corner of the camp. it's not until you get back home that family doctors warn about exposure... everyday my  main focus was getting home to see my family, my kids, not how much bad air i was breathing....but rather what could kill me short term, 

Exactly! And that's why military recruiters worldwide want 18 year olds to enlist, to be sent off when needed to fight on behalf of "our country." If the enlistment age was 40, foreign war ventures would have ended long ago! I just wish those who do the manipulating and recruiting, factored in ALL of the costs before deciding to go along. And worse: why aren't they paying whatever it costs for returning veterans to be free of worry about how they will meet their medical and other costs after returning home! 

I'm reminded once again of the classic short book - "War Is A Racket" by former Maj. Gen - Smedley Butler, from his own account back in 1935, in between the so called 'Great Wars.' Butler's memoir is about feeling he did little more than serve as an official, decorated goon squad leader for the worst businessmen, bankers and industrialists who needed muscle to enforce order in poor, undeveloped nations where they were seeking to extract the wealth.  It's fascinating that long before the Cold War and talk of a Military-Industrial Complex, a smart, reflective and insightful man like Smedley Butler was seeing a picture developing in world affairs that can't be masked or covered up today! 

And his book is of course available for free in pdf form and as an audio download also: https://archive.org/details/war_is_a_racket_1903_librivox

Very rarely, do any nations gather and build armies for defense. In recent decades, warmongering has shifted to pushbutton drone bombing and recruiting some nearby mercenary goons to go in and do the killing. The net result doesn't change for the unfortunate people living in the war zone, but it has made it so safe and easy to ignore for those living in the countries that sponsor the war effort, that for the first time in my recollection, even most liberals are warhawks today, and alternatively ignoring or promoting aggressive policies against Russia, China and voicing their support for resource wars in the global south nations. 

Quote

when everyday we had to worry about getting blown up, by Vehicle mounted IED's, people mounted  suicide vests, or just plain IED's not to mention getting shot at by every dick with a gun this happened every day, 3 or 4 times each day...... it was not if we were going to get hit, it was when we were going to get hit and by what....there were other things like depleted uranium, toxic wpn fumes, white phosphorus wpns , or here is a good one, how about carbon monoxide poisonings because there was so much armor placed around your truck or vehicle it actually funneled it to the inside of the vehicle, within hours you would have massive headaches, and puking, the cure was to stick your head out of the vehicle, which kind of defeats the purpose of armor right...........not to mention all the snakes and spiders, rabid dogs, goats, donkeys ,attack roosters not to mention the other millions ways to die... But hey here is the final kicker.... many people from the the left side like to use all these excuses to show how dangerous a modern battle field can be.... and yet when it comes time to stand up for our vets where are they, there concern seems to drop when you mention our soldiers....it is after all,  them who know first hand how bad combat can really be, it is them who carry those scars for a long time... but when it comes down to it i was never about my country, or it's citizens... it was about the guy on the right and left of me, for those guys i would die for in a second...and for the haters , i would not cross the road to piss on them if you were on fire...

Yes it was tragic that civilians died at the hands of coalition troops mistakes, but where is your disgust at how many were killed by the terrorist , did you know that 80 to 90 % of all Afghans killed where killed by these terrorist, most of these terrorist are not even from Afghanistan.  try to goggle on just what methods they used to kill women and children, what they used to do to families that dared to send their girls to school, or how they skinned a man alive and left him staked out in the sun for us to find, because we had asked a question on how to get to the next town....or how a terrorist strapped 20 lbs of explosive to a 5 year old and sent him peddling his bike toward our Vehicle check point , all that was left of him was shin bones and feet still strapped to sandals....we caught the guy in a market, handed him over to the ANP (police) they wrapped him in barbed wire and drug him down the street behind their truck screaming the entire way... just another day in Afghanistan...., 

So we heard afterwards, the IED's and other explosive devices were not being designed and built by terrorist nobodies, but instead were the product of ex-Iraqi soldiers and some Baath Party members, who on Day One of an occupation that should never have occurred, were told by their new American administrators, that they would all be considered no better than former Nazis and summarily dismissed from their jobs, regardless of importance or lack of importance..they were all immediately unemployed. And being mostly part of an elite Sunni ruling class, their new American administrators turned first to the Shias...because they represented the majority of the people of Iraq. 

So chaos was baked in! With both a lot of instant, angry new terrorists and a complete vacuum left in civil society, with no functioning bureaucracy. 

As for Afghanistan, it became a 'hell-hole' after competing outsider-led occupations, first by the Soviet Union, who, after one stalemate and broken treaty after another, were determined to prop up the country's first Marxist president...a man almost totally unknown outside the capital - Kabul. He was part of an educated elite in the country, and from a communist irreligious family. This would become a problem in the 80's, when the Reagan Administration put together a plan with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, to flood the country with every ragtag clown who could hold a rifle, to fight against the Soviet Occupation and free Afghanistan. Problem was that after the Soviets gave up under final president - Gorbachev in 1986, Afghanistan turned into a complete hellhole where nobody was safe to go outside. A work friend of mine happened to open up on the subject a bit and gave me a first hand account from a civilian perspective in Kabul during the late 80's. He noted that both he and his sister were very young at the time, and their mother gave them strict orders not to go out on the balcony of their apartment...because snipers were often shooting at each other, and everyone who looked out a window or stepped out of a doorway in the wrong place at the wrong time could be shot!

The Soviet relatively poorly equipped and financed occupation of Afghanistan paled in comparison to the US Occupation of the past 20 years. The Soviets tried to adapt and put more soldiers in Afghanistan who were from their own Central Asian republics and at least able to speak local languages in the northern part of the country, BUT were not welcomed in the Pashtun South! 

And because the Soviets pulled out and left Afghanistan after 8 years of wasting money, resources and lives, the Taleban religious recruits who had taken over the country by 2000, both they and their rich Arab helpers - Al Qaeda, thought the same pattern would occur if they started killing Americans and other foreign nationals coming in. But, recent history shows us that the US under Biden is bent on a case for permanent war! For the most part, American soldiers and private mercenaries are staying in their base compounds most of the time, and the Taleban has few opportunities to get at them with bombs and other weapons except when they are recruiting new prospects for the Afghan Army. Certainly more Afghan soldiers have killed US troops in the past 10 years in these "green on blue" attacks than anyone else there.  

So why does the US stay there? There is great rare earth mineral wealth in the eastern mountains apparently. And the country has a unique strategic location that presents an ongoing threat to China's commercial goal of building a 'new silk road' or rail equivalent, that will carry freight overland instead of along dangerous and difficult to protect sea lanes along the Asian Coast. Even when its Afghanistan, it's all about the money in the end!

But, I lost track of my first point! Afghanistan would not have had Al Qaeda, Islamofascist extremists or other barriers to development and normal life if both the Soviets and Americans had stayed away and not brought their proxy battles into their country.

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You can call the Americans what ever you want to,  it is after all a Canadian right of passage... I was proud to serve along side every American soldier that we came across. Atleast we could count on them to have our backs, when our own nation had forgotten us...  

Okay, I'll grant you that, but that is not a reason to back our country turning into a glorified vassal state that has no independent foreign policy any longer. A certain space alien who's been active on this forum since the last time I was here a few years back, keeps badgering me and others perceived as anti-American with 'why not talk about your own country - Canada' etc., to which I reply that we can't get to the source of any major problem here now if we can't look further than Ottawa!

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33 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Red China seems capable of matching the US eventually in all the various areas...at a big price. Their Type 094 Jin seems quite the capable rig. Six of those out there somewhere...apparently. Solid fueled ballistic missiles which aren't very accurate by accounts...but do carry a 1 megaton or larger warhead. So generally a 2nd strike thing.

 

China has been following a path that seeks to duplicate the American military development narrative with domestic efforts...using ex-Soviet/Russian designs and methods are not good enough anymore to achieve CPC long range plans.   However, there is one thing that China cannot create or buy for these advanced systems...experience.   And that translates into training, tactics, doctrine, effectiveness, etc.

Of course, they have 1MT warheads because they lack the (CEP) accuracy more than any 2nd strike posturing.   China today does not have a robust defense suppression capability against North America or Europe.   They will get better at this game, but so will other nations that already have a big head start.

The first American SSBN patrol was over 60 years ago...one of my old boats (USS George Washington SSBN-598).

 

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Historically, Chinese...both Communist and Nationalist were terrible soldiers, pilots and sailors. In WW2 the Japanese used to slaughter them wholesale. Korea, they died in great heaps. We assume things have improved somewhat over the years. But, it's hard to say. 

 

Hence my 20th century comment above.   What China has long thought to be its biggest strength has become less relevant and more obsolete.    China is learning that military superpower things are not so easy.  

 

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Fringe attacks on historical American behaviour are not part of this topic. Take it elsewhere.

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10 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

As we know, the US had a credible ABM system as far back as the 1960s that was too effective as far as the MAD proponents were concerned. That Sprint missile still holds the velocity record, I believe. 100g acceleration. That was to use an enhanced radiation warhead for those close-in int

Effectiveness of nukes is largely irrelevant. China is not going to be using them here. For that matter, they're very unlikely to even use military force here. They don't need to when they can buy influence with Canadian corporate and political leadership and effectively control what Canadians are being taught about China at universities through influencing professors and colleges.

Hell, they've been able to largely shut down all government criticism of them by simply grabbing a pair of nobodies and holding them for a few years. The government doesn't dare say boo, and never responds when we get bitch-slapped by the Chinese.

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10 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Problem here is the Vietcong were locals living in the South, who saw themselves as fighting foreign invaders in their country. And until the Tet Offensive near the end of the War, the NVA was not a significant factor in the fighting. The rice farmers and village locals all wanted the big, smelly, aggressive foreigners who spoke a foreign language out of their homes. As with "terrorists" or "insurgents" in Iraq or Afghanistan etc., these operations follow a recipe to create enemies even where they didn't exist before! Go in to a strange place, kill a bunch of people, and see how the others react to having you around!

Exactly! And that's why military recruiters worldwide want 18 year olds to enlist, to be sent off when needed to fight on behalf of "our country." If the enlistment age was 40, foreign war ventures would have ended long ago! I just wish those who do the manipulating and recruiting, factored in ALL of the costs before deciding to go along. And worse: why aren't they paying whatever it costs for returning veterans to be free of worry about how they will meet their medical and other costs after returning home! 

Very rarely, do any nations gather and build armies for defense. In recent decades, warmongering has shifted to pushbutton drone bombing and recruiting some nearby mercenary goons to go in and do the killing. The net result doesn't change for the unfortunate people living in the war zone, but it has made it so safe and easy to ignore for those living in the countries that sponsor the war effort, that for the first time in my recollection, even most liberals are warhawks today, and alternatively ignoring or promoting aggressive policies against Russia, China and voicing their support for resource wars in the global south nations. 

So we heard afterwards, the IED's and other explosive devices were not being designed and built by terrorist nobodies, but instead were the product of ex-Iraqi soldiers and some Baath Party members, who on Day One of an occupation that should never have occurred, were told by their new American administrators, that they would all be considered no better than former Nazis and summarily dismissed from their jobs, regardless of importance or lack of importance..they were all immediately unemployed. And being mostly part of an elite Sunni ruling class, their new American administrators turned first to the Shias...because they represented the majority of the people of Iraq. 

So why does the US stay there? There is great rare earth mineral wealth in the eastern mountains apparently. And the country has a unique strategic location that presents an ongoing threat to China's commercial goal of building a 'new silk road' or rail equivalent, that will carry freight overland instead of along dangerous and difficult to protect sea lanes along the Asian Coast. Even when its Afghanistan, it's all about the money in the end!

 

1.  I won't blow smoke up your ass, there were Afghanistan locals that did not want us there, they were more afraid of what the Taliban could do to them, than what we could ever do, but i will also tell you this, a vast majority of Afghans were very happy that the Taliban and the other terrorists were no longer in power. And for the areas in which we had full control the locals liked the security and law and order we brought, i can't count how many times we were approached by locals who would tell us as much.  Yes we killed a lot of bad guys, and 99 % of them had it coming, and trust me the locals cared very little for their oppressor's, the Taliban or any of the dozens of terrorist groups operating in the country.

2. When i joined the military, i did so with eyes wide open, my father was in the military's, infact i was the 5 th generation of the family to join the service, for me it was already written in the sky, join the family business. Not just me my brothers and our wives as while... And if there was any doubt, our pre deployment training was so real that it left NO doubt on what was coming, and that training was done mostly by those soldiers that had just come back... and they instilled how easy it was to get killed or maimed, over and over again...we trained constantly until the day we left to go over... by that time you could have been 190 years old and we would all know what was going to happen once we landed in Afghanistan, the world largest killing machine.

Recruiters have one job, to bring in fresh young minds into the fold, i don't blame them for any of my issues, be it physicals or mental, don't get me wrong i take my share of responsibility, i was the one that said yes sign me up, and send me into battle... but unless you missed all my other posts I place a large portion of the blame on the government and the majority of Canadians citizens,  for not having our backs be it with buying the proper equipment to survive, and making us beg like dogs for benefits that are life saving like medical care and mental health issues..., for not acting when we needed you, for not forcing the government to look after us after everything we sacrificed on your behalf...

 

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And worse: why aren't they paying whatever it costs for returning veterans to be free of worry about how they will meet their medical and other costs after returning home! 

Recruiters don't make policies they follow orders like the rest of us, governments make policy, and it's citizens force government s to make policy. remember not that long ago there was a young white girl who had been convicted of murder, the media found out she was about to be sent to a healing lodge to partake in BBQ's and pow wows, dancing into the night in their own cabins and place by the lake... Canadians from the left and right stood up and said WTF this is not right, a judge had already signed off on it , it was all legal and she was getting ready to make the trip....and they used their voice to get it all changed, today she remains in prison.. all that happened in less than a month... so i know Canadians can make a difference they can change anything they want including a legal transfer of a prisoner... but we some how can not treat our vets with any respect or dignity, more like pieces of shit, with less medical benefits than the average Canadian, and with an overwhelmed mental health capacity, that sees far to many vets spilled over the sides in long waiting lists only to take their lives to end the pain... 

3. Yes because Canada's military has been marching across the world and making most nations our bitches for decades now, Canada's military has been barely able to respond to domestic disasters, in Afghanistan we had problems keeping a 3500 man battle group supplied and manned... and in case you don't know it yet todays world is much more dangerous than in any time in our history, not having a military for defense is just not sound decision making , kind of like throwing out your smoke detectors because you think we are never going to have a fire... 

4. a kid could make a IED with a cell phone and some diesel fuel and fertilizer, it does not take a rocket scientist, Bomb makers where number one on the list of kill or capture, and we hunted them down by the dozens by any or all means possible,  some were foreigners but the majority were home grown wanting to cash in on the Taliban's huge reward for killing any foreign soldier. 

5. this is another myth made up by those anti war organizations that could not pigion hole why the coalition was in Afghanistan, first it was pipe lines, NATO was protecting pipelines meant to haul oil from Russia to asia... ya no pipelines where ever built across Afghanistan ... then there was oil....nope no oil could be extracted due to the war and conflict....and it was to expensive, now it is rare minerals trillions of dollars worth deep under ground....and no one is mining them go figure...  The US and most of the coalition is drawing down all of it's troops with only small numbers there today, if they were there to rape resources one would only think that numbers be climbing and mining would have started... 

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4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

1.  I won't blow smoke up your ass, there were Afghanistan locals that did not want us there, they were more afraid of what the Taliban could do to them, than what we could ever do, but i will also tell you this, a vast majority of Afghans were very happy that the Taliban and the other terrorists were no longer in power. And for the areas in which we had full control the locals liked the security and law and order we brought, i can't count how many times we were approached by locals who would tell us as much.  Yes we killed a lot of bad guys, and 99 % of them had it coming, and trust me the locals cared very little for their oppressor's, the Taliban or any of the dozens of terrorist groups operating in the country.

2. When i joined the military, i did so with eyes wide open, my father was in the military's, infact i was the 5 th generation of the family to join the service, for me it was already written in the sky, join the family business. Not just me my brothers and our wives as while... And if there was any doubt, our pre deployment training was so real that it left NO doubt on what was coming, and that training was done mostly by those soldiers that had just come back... and they instilled how easy it was to get killed or maimed, over and over again...we trained constantly until the day we left to go over... by that time you could have been 190 years old and we would all know what was going to happen once we landed in Afghanistan, the world largest killing machine.

Recruiters have one job, to bring in fresh young minds into the fold, i don't blame them for any of my issues, be it physicals or mental, don't get me wrong i take my share of responsibility, i was the one that said yes sign me up, and send me into battle... but unless you missed all my other posts I place a large portion of the blame on the government and the majority of Canadians citizens,  for not having our backs be it with buying the proper equipment to survive, and making us beg like dogs for benefits that are life saving like medical care and mental health issues..., for not acting when we needed you, for not forcing the government to look after us after everything we sacrificed on your behalf...

 

Recruiters don't make policies they follow orders like the rest of us, governments make policy, and it's citizens force government s to make policy. remember not that long ago there was a young white girl who had been convicted of murder, the media found out she was about to be sent to a healing lodge to partake in BBQ's and pow wows, dancing into the night in their own cabins and place by the lake... Canadians from the left and right stood up and said WTF this is not right, a judge had already signed off on it , it was all legal and she was getting ready to make the trip....and they used their voice to get it all changed, today she remains in prison.. all that happened in less than a month... so i know Canadians can make a difference they can change anything they want including a legal transfer of a prisoner... but we some how can not treat our vets with any respect or dignity, more like pieces of shit, with less medical benefits than the average Canadian, and with an overwhelmed mental health capacity, that sees far to many vets spilled over the sides in long waiting lists only to take their lives to end the pain... 

3. Yes because Canada's military has been marching across the world and making most nations our bitches for decades now, Canada's military has been barely able to respond to domestic disasters, in Afghanistan we had problems keeping a 3500 man battle group supplied and manned... and in case you don't know it yet todays world is much more dangerous than in any time in our history, not having a military for defense is just not sound decision making , kind of like throwing out your smoke detectors because you think we are never going to have a fire... 

4. a kid could make a IED with a cell phone and some diesel fuel and fertilizer, it does not take a rocket scientist, Bomb makers where number one on the list of kill or capture, and we hunted them down by the dozens by any or all means possible,  some were foreigners but the majority were home grown wanting to cash in on the Taliban's huge reward for killing any foreign soldier. 

5. this is another myth made up by those anti war organizations that could not pigion hole why the coalition was in Afghanistan, first it was pipe lines, NATO was protecting pipelines meant to haul oil from Russia to asia... ya no pipelines where ever built across Afghanistan ... then there was oil....nope no oil could be extracted due to the war and conflict....and it was to expensive, now it is rare minerals trillions of dollars worth deep under ground....and no one is mining them go figure...  The US and most of the coalition is drawing down all of it's troops with only small numbers there today, if they were there to rape resources one would only think that numbers be climbing and mining would have started... 

I've enjoyed this debate, but I think I am going to have to pull the plug on it now! Cause I have occasional interruptions when I'm online, and I noticed that, even though MLW doesn't seem to tiime out, and you have to log out to leave, this is the second time I've been workiing on a post...stepped away for two or three minutes and found the whole thing disappeared by the time I got back!

I was just starting to work on #4 when everything went poof! And if I can't find a way to save content so I can go back to it, I'll have to stick to the mindless, boring strategy that reddit forums work by: short, usually evasive comments that don't address all the points I'm intending to respond to....oh well! 

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19 hours ago, Right To Left said:

We should have continued attempting to set an independent course in world affairs, rather than sidle up to the inheritors of the Global Empire. America is the attack dog of globalized capitalism. You're stuck debt-financing a ruinously bloated and still expanding military-industrial complex because it's the primary stick the global oligarchs wield to enforce the rules of global capitalism today. *

*I could get into the F-35 Debacle ...the 1.7 Trillion debt sinkhole that has led Air Force planners to determine they need to go right back to the drawing board and order some new F-16's and get to work on a real stealth fighter project that isn't a hybrid crossover like the F-35 has been trying to do for the past 30 years. Old saying, sometimes you try to please everybody and you please no one! So, if the Air Force pulls their plug on the project, what does the Navy and the Army do with their modified versions of the same plane? 

Years ago, shrewd outside observers were warning that the F-35 Project was a giant, complicated and sophisticated white elephant that wouldn't serve much useful purpose, other than burning money with jet fuel!

The U.S. Air Force Just Admitted The F-35 Stealth Fighter Has Failed

Funny that all the news networks and newspapers haven't been able to fit the story in with their regular news coverage.

How long did you have to search to find that story, the reason i ask, is because the Israelis used the F-35 not once but dozens of times already to defeat some of Russia's best anti air systems, such as the S-400, and Pantsir systems in several airstrikes in Syria, that and F-35 have been declared operational in all countries that fly them, thats cleared for combat... not air shows...

Yes it is true that the  US Airforce is buying legacy aircraft such as the new F-15EX, to replace some of their older F15 C and D models.... and perhaps even some of their F-15E older models... yes they did lock at the newest F-16 and F-21 aircraft but no orders as of yet... todate over 615 F-35 have been built, thats more than any generation 5 aircraft in the world, those numbers out pace a lot of fighters or multi role aircraft. and production is not slowing down, but has not reached peak performance yet... I don't care what anyone says the F-35 is light years ahead of any gen 3 or 4 or 4.5 aircraft.. with a price point expected to be lower than 80 mil a copy for that much tech, no one can compete, shit even the new F-15EX has not yet approached that price point, but it is expected to...

The US Airforce will be flying F-35 for decades to come, and it is still the top contender for the Canadians Airforce as well despite what Justin thinks about it...with sales only expected to climb world wide. 

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

How long did you have to search to find that story, the reason i ask, is because the Israelis used the F-35 not once but dozens of times already to defeat some of Russia's best anti air systems, such as the S-400, and Pantsir systems in several airstrikes in Syria, that and F-35 have been declared operational in all countries that fly them, thats cleared for combat... not air shows...

So what are the details about the dance Russia and Israel have been doing in Syria for the past 5 to 10 years? Cause the Israelis are flying around (rarely using F-35's) Western Syria bombing Syrian and Iranian targets...omitting Russians somehow, and their planes make it back to base afterwards. The only time I remember them having a close call was when a Russian spokesman condemned the IDF for launching a missile strike at a Syrian target from behind a civilian aircraft that had taken off and was still climbing in altitude (major nono in air combat maneuvers). If any Syria has S-400's, they likely have restrictive parameters they're allowed to use them. Not sure about the cheaper, less complicated Pantsir's, but it seems like Russian units don't directly target Israelis and Israelis know where the Russians are and avoid hitting them.

This is an arrangement the US and Russia has had for a long time in Eastern Syria....though the latest example of Biden keeping another war going featured a complaint by some Russian official that they weren't provided adequate warning before Joe launched his anti-Iranian missile strike. It would be nice if the US was actually fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda, instead of once again trying to cripple the only forces who are fighting Saudi and Qatari Islamofascist groups. But, that's the world we live in now.

Quote

 

Yes it is true that the  US Airforce is buying legacy aircraft such as the new F-15EX, to replace some of their older F15 C and D models.... and perhaps even some of their F-15E older models... yes they did lock at the newest F-16 and F-21 aircraft but no orders as of yet... todate over 615 F-35 have been built, thats more than any generation 5 aircraft in the world, those numbers out pace a lot of fighters or multi role aircraft. and production is not slowing down, but has not reached peak performance yet... I don't care what anyone says the F-35 is light years ahead of any gen 3 or 4 or 4.5 aircraft.. with a price point expected to be lower than 80 mil a copy for that much tech, no one can compete, shit even the new F-15EX has not yet approached that price point, but it is expected to...

The US Airforce will be flying F-35 for decades to come, and it is still the top contender for the Canadians Airforce as well despite what Justin thinks about it...with sales only expected to climb world wide. 

 

That Forbes writeup I linked sure sounded like the USAF was looking for the exit, and wanted a new plane to be developed specifically for Air Force needs. Doesn't mean they'll get it after almost 2 trillion has been sunk into this white elephant so far, but it sure gives the impression they don't consider the F-35 reliable or worth the costs. On that note it has to be mentioned that the Israelis up till now, have been riding for free on all this new tech!  How often are the Israelis flying F-35's into potential combat zones is never spelled out. 

And what of the other branches of US Military...are their modified versions of this plane going to be flying for decades to come? The big problem, as some forward looking Air Force generals are trying to get across, is that the problematic F35 has already been around too long to remain cutting edge and "lightyears ahead" of potential competition coming from Russia and China. And then there's the added problem of 'how are planes going to be able to match the maneuverability of unmanned drone aircraft that don't have the burden of having to avoid making moves that could injure, black out or kill a human pilot? 

Just as some weapons analysts declare that the age of aircraft carriers has been over for decades, and the only thing keeping them all from being sunk is that there hasn't been a major power war with an enemy equipped with enough effective anti-ship missiles to start knocking them off like ducks in a pond. There is precedence for this early in WWII, when Germany discovered too late that the age of large battleships was over, and even the greatest, like the much ballyhooed Bismarck were sunk by shear weight of numbers....the British Navy realizing they could surround the smaller German fleet with faster, more maneuverable corvettes and sink any German ship they came across. From then on, the German fleet had to stay in port and only their half-submarine U-boats were used to continue the war on the North Atlantic.

Considering the way the US ...now under new management, continues to threaten and try to bluff its way around to continue the shakedown of the 'lesser powers.' Next question is: when the inevitable happens and saber-rattling in the Persian Gulf or more likely now - the South China Sea leads to 3, 4 or more US aircraft carriers sinking to the bottom, and what happens after that?

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On 2/23/2021 at 12:14 PM, blackbird said:

  This finally happened when Canada became one of the first nations to establish diplomatic relations with the CCP in 1970 under the liberal leader Pierre Trudeau, who had a fascination with Communist dictatorships.

The Big Tur....uh...TRUdeau's dissertation at Harvard was about Communism, Marxism and Christianity (he was raised by the Jesuits, so the connection is logical).  He was not only a good friend to such marvellous people as Paul Pot and Fidel Castro he was committed to the left for his entire life.  You may have heard the rumour of him holding a communist party card, and you will see it denied from all sorts of sources but I have heard it first hand from people who were charged with investigating him when he came to power that he DID in fact join the party while studying at the Sorbonne.  I also have a military friend who witnessed his personal friendship with Russian officers while being inspected in IIRC Khasakstan.  That event coresponds with the Canadian military record of "walking trips in Eastern Europe" while a student.

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2 hours ago, Right To Left said:

So what are the details about the dance Russia and Israel have been doing in Syria for the past 5 to 10 years? Cause the Israelis are flying around (rarely using F-35's) Western Syria bombing Syrian and Iranian targets...omitting Russians somehow, and their planes make it back to base afterwards. The only time I remember them having a close call was when a Russian spokesman condemned the IDF for launching a missile strike at a Syrian target from behind a civilian aircraft that had taken off and was still climbing in altitude (major nono in air combat maneuvers). If any Syria has S-400's, they likely have restrictive parameters they're allowed to use them. Not sure about the cheaper, less complicated Pantsir's, but it seems like Russian units don't directly target Israelis and Israelis know where the Russians are and avoid hitting them.

That Forbes writeup I linked sure sounded like the USAF was looking for the exit, and wanted a new plane to be developed specifically for Air Force needs. Doesn't mean they'll get it after almost 2 trillion has been sunk into this white elephant so far, but it sure gives the impression they don't consider the F-35 reliable or worth the costs. On that note it has to be mentioned that the Israelis up till now, have been riding for free on all this new tech!  How often are the Israelis flying F-35's into potential combat zones is never spelled out. 

And what of the other branches of US Military...are their modified versions of this plane going to be flying for decades to come? The big problem, as some forward looking Air Force generals are trying to get across, is that the problematic F35 has already been around too long to remain cutting edge and "lightyears ahead" of potential competition coming from Russia and China. And then there's the added problem of 'how are planes going to be able to match the maneuverability of unmanned drone aircraft that don't have the burden of having to avoid making moves that could injure, black out or kill a human pilot? 

Just as some weapons analysts declare that the age of aircraft carriers has been over for decades, and the only thing keeping them all from being sunk is that there hasn't been a major power war with an enemy equipped with enough effective anti-ship missiles to start knocking them off like ducks in a pond. There is precedence for this early in WWII, when Germany discovered too late that the age of large battleships was over, and even the greatest, like the much ballyhooed Bismarck were sunk by shear weight of numbers....the British Navy realizing they could surround the smaller German fleet with faster, more maneuverable corvettes and sink any German ship they came across. From then on, the German fleet had to stay in port and only their half-submarine U-boats were used to continue the war on the North Atlantic.

Considering the way the US ...now under new management, continues to threaten and try to bluff its way around to continue the shakedown of the 'lesser powers.' Next question is: when the inevitable happens and saber-rattling in the Persian Gulf or more likely now - the South China Sea leads to 3, 4 or more US aircraft carriers sinking to the bottom, and what happens after that?

1. your right Isreal has been doing air strikes on Syria as long as they have had an airforce, according to defence news media, the Israelis are taking advantage of the turn over in US presidents, and Have ramped up attacks on Iran's Hezbollah troops located in Syria since 2019... or since they have recieved F-35 , capable of providing SEAD and other options with different payloads with the same aircraft, or handing SEAD info to another aircraft to attack, the question if you had an aircraft that had all these capabilites why would you risk using an inferior aircraft , it would not make sense.. lets remember that the F-35 has a massive sensory suit that can act like an AWAC's of SEAD aircraft, or target missiles or guided munitions to any target and do it all at the same time... goggle is full of examples of Israelis F-35 hitting anyone and anything in Syria...

Unanswered Israeli Air Strikes Against Syria Raise S-400 Questions « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary

F-35s Go to War: Why Israel's Strike on Syria Was so Successful | The National Interest

Israeli F-35 Strike on Iranian Weaponry in Syria Leaves Eight PMF Militia Dead - Behold Israel

Israeli F-35I Jets Strikes “Large Convoy” in Syria (defenseworld.net)

2. Yes the same article is splashed across all the defense media outlets, that still does not negate a couple of things, the F-35 has been in combat and performed as expected... all ready proven on some of Russia top anti air systems...Even the US has used it in combat with impressive results... second reason is they have already sank almost 2 trillion dollars into it, it's not going any where any time soon plus they made promises to dozens of countries already that it will be here from decades to come. third after sinking 2 trillion into there is no more funding for another new aircraft to be developed from scratch not to mention the time it takes to design ,develop, test... so the question would do they have one in the wings... which i doubt like you said trillions on the f-35 not much left for new aircraft... Now they are working on a replacement for the F-22 and have been for a while... but not to many fighters out their that have been made into multi role aircraft, or rather yet ones that excel at both roles.... with exception of the F-14 and F-15 which were flukes or due to budget cuts... And the 4 th reason is the Entire us military is looking at expansion and dollars are going to be hard to come by, they want new carriers, frigates, destroyers, new bombers, a close support aircraft, new fighters, the army is getting ready for it's one massive upgrades, tank, IFV, arty systems, new small arms systems, the list goes on and on... will the airforce get everything it is looking at, i can't say for sure, but apply some common sense and having the F-35 replaced now well seems like a long shot...but if anyone can do it it is the US. 

3. unmanned aircraft, have been the Skelton in the closet have they not, but one of the best things about the F-22 and f-35 is it massive sensory suit, able to act as it's own Awacs or have another f-35 or F-22 pass on target info to it...and engage at extreme long distances with a high degree of accuracy....this is where they excel, the bad guys don't even know they are there until they explode.... which means getting into a knife fight is not the best solution, or the safest, the F-35 does not excel at close combat... it can do it, but not like a unmanned aircraft designed as a fighter... and while in the next decade or so a viable unmanned aircraft will come to fruition. but we are not done with manned fighters just yet... 

4. I hope it is not the same experts that said Tanks were no longer viable .... because i think we will see them around for a long time to come.. Aircraft carriers will adapt as every other wpn system has, counter measures will be made, and counter counter measure will be developed and so the race goes around and around...besides thats what the Arliegh burkes are for... keep any air threats away from the carriers and carrier group...Even the US has tried to find a battle ship replacement capable of hitting targets miles inshore, with heavy guns, now they just throw cruise missiles at it and make it go away....but it was not that long ago that US battle ships pounded the coast of Lebanon with 16 in guns.. how many times have they been pulled out of storage and put back into service.. Never say never.

5. what happens after the US loses aircraft carriers, well i think by then China or Russia would be a smoking hole, or one sheet of glass or miles upon miles of craters...... and you'll have to see what a Chinese man looks like in the museum ... look what they did after 911 can you imagine killing 5000 US sailors... it is not going to be pretty... every nation in the world would have to declare what side of the line they were on, and suit the  fu** up, cause it would be game on...to sink 2 or 3 would be the end of days as we know it... and it would not be conventional for long...the entire nation stood to after 911, half the population signed up the next day the other half were women and they signed up as well, and that was a bunch of goat hearders ... i can not imagine what they would do to the Chinese or Russians like, i said suit up it's going to be one wild ride....

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4 hours ago, Right To Left said:

Considering the way the US ...now under new management, continues to threaten and try to bluff its way around to continue the shakedown of the 'lesser powers.' Next question is: when the inevitable happens and saber-rattling in the Persian Gulf or more likely now - the South China Sea leads to 3, 4 or more US aircraft carriers sinking to the bottom, and what happens after that?

 

What happens ?   The U.S. will still have plenty of carriers...plus cruise missile platforms and forward deployed aircraft squadrons to join in the fun.   The heavy bombers will take a while longer to get to the party.

After the dust settles, Canada's weak government can get back to asking about the Two Michaels...again.  

 

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7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

What happens ?   The U.S. will still have plenty of carriers...plus cruise missile platforms and forward deployed aircraft squadrons to join in the fun.   The heavy bombers will take a while longer to get to the party.

After the dust settles, Canada's weak government can get back to asking about the Two Michaels...again.  

 

Now that you have leadership with no balls and the same looney left orientation and fantasies as do we, it will be interesting wo watch how many commy asses slow Joe will kiss after the Little Tur..TRUdeau has warmed them up for him.

IF WE had any actual leadership, the correct way to deal with China regarding the two Michaels is to give Ms. Meng EXACTLY the same confinement, treatment and fate as China is affording our citizens.

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1 hour ago, cannuck said:

Now that you have leadership with no balls and the same looney left orientation and fantasies as do we, it will be interesting wo watch how many commy asses slow Joe will kiss after the Little Tur..TRUdeau has warmed them up for him.

At least he won't be on his knees felating Putin.

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

IF WE had any actual leadership, the correct way to deal with China regarding the two Michaels is to give Ms. Meng EXACTLY the same confinement, treatment and fate as China is affording our citizens.

The lawyers and judges would never allow it. For that matter, China could start executing random Canadians by the dozens and our lawyers and judges would forbid any kind of retaliation against Chinese citizens in Canada. Hell, we'd have to go through multi-year court battles just to deport them if they didn't choose to leave. 

We are not equipped to go tit for tat with dictatorships. We don't even retaliate against their officials when they come here and virtually spit on us.

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13 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

What happens ?   The U.S. will still have plenty of carriers...plus cruise missile platforms and forward deployed aircraft squadrons to join in the fun.   The heavy bombers will take a while longer to get to the party.

After the dust settles, Canada's weak government can get back to asking about the Two Michaels...again.  

 

Stick to the question! The sinking of one aircraft carrier would be a disaster for a nation that (like Israel) has gotten used to fighting pain-free wars!  The US is not Somalia....if you recall from the not quite fully acccurate (but close enough) portrayal of the Clinton Blackhawk Down Debacle, what was learned about Somali military strategy as filtered through CIA releases was that the UN-targeted Somali general they wanted US Forces to pick up and deliver to The Hague or some international tribunal for trial, had devised a strategy of counter-attack with his officers that they knew full well would result in high casualties for their side, by shooting down at least one sophisticated and heavily armed attack helicopter.

The incoming assumption was based on the work of US military planners who assumed that the Blackhawks were so capable of inflicting lethal violence on any group of attackers on the ground...who had to get in close enough to aim their fire at the pilots, engine or the base of the rotors, to bring a helicopter down. As soon as it was learned that the Somalis were much more willing to receive casualties and even sacrifice their lives to achieve an objective, then plans had to change! 

Nuther topic, but this is the #1 reason why Daniel Ellsberg and other anti-nuclear critics point to about wrong assumptions made by US war planners who are still trying to work out how to win a nuclear war against Russia or China today! They frame their pre-emptive strikes against enemy nuclear targets on the premise, that once the Russians or the Chinese realize they can't mount a successful counter-attack, they will surrender! The notion that nations which have been attacked with nukes might launch theirs anyway...even if they know they can't win, is totally lost on idiots who have dangerous levels of power and destruction today!

AND back to the aircraft carriers....there is no way even one of them can be destroyed by bombs or anti-ship missiles without taking thousands of casualties. US leadership will be faced with the extreme dilemma of either:

1. trying to find a face-saving retreat or

2. going for broke and bombing cities with nukes.

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6 hours ago, cannuck said:

IF WE had any actual leadership, the correct way to deal with China regarding the two Michaels is to give Ms. Meng EXACTLY the same confinement, treatment and fate as China is affording our citizens.

 

The U.S. can have both...leadership and a forward deployed, potent military...Canada has neither.   Canada's government could have taken far stronger measures than just Meng's living quarters and extradition outcome (e.g. expulsions, 5G decision, consulates, air travel, student visas, etc.) but it chooses not too.   Therefore no reason for China to budge.

Should have worked out a trade long ago, instead of hiding behind the "rule of law".

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15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

5. what happens after the US loses aircraft carriers, well i think by then China or Russia would be a smoking hole, or one sheet of glass or miles upon miles of craters...... and you'll have to see what a Chinese man looks like in the museum ... look what they did after 911 can you imagine killing 5000 US sailors... it is not going to be pretty... every nation in the world would have to declare what side of the line they were on, and suit the  fu** up, cause it would be game on...to sink 2 or 3 would be the end of days as we know it... and it would not be conventional for long...the entire nation stood to after 911, half the population signed up the next day the other half were women and they signed up as well, and that was a bunch of goat hearders ... i can not imagine what they would do to the Chinese or Russians like, i said suit up it's going to be one wild ride....

I want to jump right to #5 here, because this is most important, since you seem to believe that nuclear wars are survivable for the nations that launch them, and I sure as hell don't when the other side has them too!

The most important takeaway from Daniel Ellsberg's book - "The Doomsday Machine" was that the scientists, engineers and analysts who were tasked by the Pentagon to produce plans for various nuclear war scenarios (including US first strike attacks) all were contingent on a massive, widespread attacks on both Soviet AND Chinese cities during the Cold War years. 

Even after Mao had a falling out with Brezhnev and other Soviet leaders, and were pulling away from their alliance and trying to develop relations with the US, the US was still planning to wipe out China along with the Soviets even though they never developed more than 100 nuclear warheads and were certainly not informed that the US still considered them to be part of the same enemy! 

And, if your disgusting future American genocide scenario of "you'll have to see what a Chinese man looks like in the museum"  is at all accurate, we will all be dead also from the after-effects of such a mass casualty attack, and no one will be alive to see anything!  Maybe it will be one way to avoid a climate warming extinction.....if that's a silver lining!

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19 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Stick to the question!

 

I did....don't ask questions that you don't want answered.

 

Quote

 The notion that nations which have been attacked with nukes might launch theirs anyway...even if they know they can't win, is totally lost on idiots who have dangerous levels of power and destruction today!

 

Clearly you do not have any practical experience in such matters.   Keep reading American history for more entertainment.

 

Quote

AND back to the aircraft carriers....there is no way even one of them can be destroyed by bombs or anti-ship missiles without taking thousands of casualties. US leadership will be faced with the extreme dilemma of either:

1. trying to find a face-saving retreat or

2. going for broke and bombing cities with nukes.

 

False conclusions, and not Canada's current China dilemma anyway.   Military responses do not require nuclear weapons unless engaged in kind...Canada doesn't have such leverage and probably never will.   It is no longer a "middle power" or "honest broker", and doesn't have a "seat at the table"...or any other cute euphemism that attempts to describe and rationalize Canada's very weakened state.

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12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The U.S. can have both...leadership and a forward deployed, potent military...Canada has neither.   Canada's government could have taken far stronger measures than just Meng's living quarters and extradition outcome (e.g. expulsions, 5G decision, consulates, air travel, student visas, etc.) but it chooses not too.   Therefore no reason for China to budge.

Should have worked out a trade long ago, instead of hiding behind the "rule of law".

Looks to me like China is quietly developing their Belt and Road Strategy to develop and build economic alliances that aren't affected by either US "soft power" economic warfare or US naval threats on the oceans. 

I've said all along, that Canada should have never got involved with this bogus attempt of Trump economic warfare against China, since we have nothing to gain/and lots to lose. And we need to recognize that JT and worse Conservative leadership are clinging to the declining empire by arresting subjects for no reason on America's behalf. 

America is on the same path the British Empire was on after WWII - trying desperately to hang on to its imperial possessions all through the 50's, before learning the American Way of setting up tin pot proxy dictators who get paid a little to work as the local enforcer of global capitalism. But this system, buiilt by the American Empire is on a downward spiral this year, as the rest of the world moves away from using a currency that is ruinously in debt and can never pay back creditors in the future. Get used to Weimar America! It's coming soon.....likely later this year!

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36 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Looks to me like China is quietly developing their Belt and Road Strategy to develop and build economic alliances that aren't affected by either US "soft power" economic warfare or US naval threats on the oceans.

 

So yet again, the question about what Canada should do about China returns to a focus and obsession on what the United States is doing about China.   Canada seemingly won't do anything about China.

 

Quote

America is on the same path the British Empire was on after WWII - trying desperately to hang on to its imperial possessions all through the 50's, before learning the American Way of setting up tin pot proxy dictators who get paid a little to work as the local enforcer of global capitalism. But this system, buiilt by the American Empire is on a downward spiral this year, as the rest of the world moves away from using a currency that is ruinously in debt and can never pay back creditors in the future. Get used to Weimar America! It's coming soon.....likely later this year!

 

Sure...any day now...total collapse of U.S. dollar hegemony.

Canada has already experienced a fallen empire...that's why it now clings to the United States for economic and military survival.  

Canada can remember the good 'ole days of empire...including parts of China...just look how big and important Canada appears on this postage stamp !

 

Canadian Imperial Stamp, XMAS 1898, "We hold a vaster Empire than has been" Canada Postage Stamp

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4 hours ago, Right To Left said:

I want to jump right to #5 here, because this is most important, since you seem to believe that nuclear wars are survivable for the nations that launch them, and I sure as hell don't when the other side has them too!

The most important takeaway from Daniel Ellsberg's book - "The Doomsday Machine" was that the scientists, engineers and analysts who were tasked by the Pentagon to produce plans for various nuclear war scenarios (including US first strike attacks) all were contingent on a massive, widespread attacks on both Soviet AND Chinese cities during the Cold War years. 

Even after Mao had a falling out with Brezhnev and other Soviet leaders, and were pulling away from their alliance and trying to develop relations with the US, the US was still planning to wipe out China along with the Soviets even though they never developed more than 100 nuclear warheads and were certainly not informed that the US still considered them to be part of the same enemy! 

And, if your disgusting future American genocide scenario of "you'll have to see what a Chinese man looks like in the museum"  is at all accurate, we will all be dead also from the after-effects of such a mass casualty attack, and no one will be alive to see anything!  Maybe it will be one way to avoid a climate warming extinction.....if that's a silver lining!

 

4 hours ago, Right To Left said:

I want to jump right to #5 here, because this is most important, since you seem to believe that nuclear wars are survivable for the nations that launch them, and I sure as hell don't when the other side has them too!

And, if your disgusting future American genocide scenario of "you'll have to see what a Chinese man looks like in the museum"  is at all accurate, we will all be dead also from the after-effects of such a mass casualty attack, and no one will be alive to see anything!  Maybe it will be one way to avoid a climate warming extinction.....if that's a silver lining!

There are going to be lots of people who will survive, the politicians and elite will be in bunkers, you and me, will be dead within weeks, maybe months, but not from radiation poisoning but rather when law and order takes a nose dive, and the strong will take from the weak until we destroy each other from within as resources become scarce, So Who cares , everything in this topic is beyond our control....Did you really think you where going to live forever....Remember when you see the bright flash stand up face into the light, and within milliseconds you and your body will be nothing more than dust in the wind, or in this case blast wave...

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