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What to do about China

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2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Obama just continued remedies that were already rolling from the Bush administration, including Bush era tax cuts.

Either way, it seems that what to do about China in Canada means discussing what the Americans should/should not do.

Yep, TARP was continued by Obama but the program was started by Bush, and actually turned a profit.

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45 minutes ago, Argus said:

Oh I've said numerous times what I think Canada ought to be doing about China. That we're not doing any of it is a the result of the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the Trudeau administration.

 

Trump exposed Canada's trade and economic vulnerabilities for what they are, regardless of the ensuing China/Meng backlash for Canadian exports.   Getting resources to global markets and breaking down inter-provincial trade barriers should be an obvious priority regardless of ruling party, even if that means federal action over the usual objections and stalling.   Was never a big fan of PM Pierre Trudeau, but he would have done far more...."just watch me".

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19 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Trump exposed Canada's trade and economic vulnerabilities for what they are, regardless of the ensuing China/Meng backlash for Canadian exports.   Getting resources to global markets and breaking down inter-provincial trade barriers should be an obvious priority regardless of ruling party, even if that means federal action over the usual objections and stalling.   Was never a big fan of PM Pierre Trudeau, but he would have done far more...."just watch me".

Trump didnt expose anything.  I remember him complaining that Canada was getting the better end of the deal from nafta.  

But maybe we should follow trumps great plan he had for the usfl.  

I'd buy that for a dollar!  :lol:

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1 minute ago, Cannucklehead said:

Trump didnt expose anything. 

 

Oh yes he did....as did Obama...as did Bush #43.

Disruption of trade and tariffs are an existential threat to Canada's economy, which has stubbornly refused to fully diversify away from dependencies on the U.S. market and capital investment.  

Canada is more dependent on exports (30% of economy, 50% for Ontario), compared to China (20%) and USA (12 %).

....but it is more important to fight over pipelines and the number of ships off BC's coast.

Profoundly stupid....

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21 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Oh yes he did....as did Obama...as did Bush #43.

Disruption of trade and tariffs are an existential threat to Canada's economy, which has stubbornly refused to fully diversify away from dependencies on the U.S. market and capital investment.  

Canada is more dependent on exports (30% of economy, 50% for Ontario), compared to China (20%) and USA (12 %).

....but it is more important to fight over pipelines and the number of ships off BC's coast.

Profoundly stupid....

At the end of 2018, Canada’s exports of goods and services were running at 30.2% as large as GDP and amounted to $672 billion annualized. 

Sounds about right.  

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1 hour ago, Shady said:

It wasn’t caused by Republicans.  In fact, Republicans warned of a potential crisis several times during Bush’s first term, and recommend changes.  Democrats called them racist and denied any problems existed.  Problems that were bi partisan and went into effect during the Clinton administration.  Regardless, Obama carried on with Bush’s TARP program, but Obama’s trillion dollar deficits and adding more debt than all previous presidents combined has little to do with saving the financial system.  It was large increases in domestic spending.

The Republican administration appointed people to the oversight agencies for the banking industry who were lapdogs for the industry.  This happened under their watch. And the TARP program was, as you point out, Bush's baby, not Obamas.

I mean, I don't like Obama and had scant respect for him but that's just the way it was.

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Just in case nobody noticed today, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats added more U.S. protectionism to NAFTA 2.0 because of pressure from U.S. labour unions.   Freeland/Canada had no choice but to sign up and 'git 'er done, along with Mexico.

Trump will hammer Canada again over IP theft (e.g. digital media), dumping, and transshipments of steel/aluminum outside of USMCA trade agreements.

...and that's from an "ally". 

Think China will be more favourable to Canada ?    Nope.....

 

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26 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Just in case nobody noticed today, Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats added more U.S. protectionism to NAFTA 2.0 because of pressure from U.S. labour unions.

It's heartening to know that commies have such sway in the US.

Slackers of the world unite!

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35 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Think China will be more favourable to Canada ?    Nope.....

Beijing has all the leverage, they can alter the terms with impunity and Canada will be forced to submit.

 

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On 10/11/2019 at 8:54 AM, Argus said:

China is exerting far, far more power around the world than any other country right now, and that influence is growing. They're also rapidly modernizing their military, and starting to launch large aircraft carriers to exert their military power abroad.

They're a predatory entity . . . . Trump appears to be better prepared to deal with them than past presidents have been.  Canada/Trudeau/Freeland are a sad joke. The Michaels will pay the price. Canada's f'kd !

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1 minute ago, Nefarious Banana said:

They're a predatory entity . . . . Trump appears to be better prepared to deal with them than past presidents have been.  Canada/Trudeau/Freeland are a sad joke. The Michaels will pay the price. Canada's f'kd !

You do know that the Michael's are being detained because of the u.s, right? 

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1 hour ago, Argus said:

The Republican administration appointed people to the oversight agencies for the banking industry who were lapdogs for the industry.  This happened under their watch. And the TARP program was, as you point out, Bush's baby, not Obamas.

I mean, I don't like Obama and had scant respect for him but that's just the way it was.

First of all, thinking that there is any real difference among the Uniparty is folly.  Goldman Sucks has owned every administration for some time now, lock, stock and barrel.  Bush and Obama were merely sock puppets for Wall Street, who cashed in for TRILLIONS in the crash, instead of going TU as any real business would have done.

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China holds Canadians hostage as a political lever against us. Make any political moves against China, and they are dead for sure. That makes retaliation unpopular for the Canadian political class. For example if we make a move against them with the 5G, they will use these men as pawns.

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53 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

China holds Canadians hostage as a political lever against us. Make any political moves against China, and they are dead for sure. That makes retaliation unpopular for the Canadian political class. For example if we make a move against them with the 5G, they will use these men as pawns.

Retaliation is a choice to ramp up a conflict. 

It's certainly not a good first choice, and in no one's best interests. 

I'd like to think there are important private discussions and negotiation going on, as that's the best route ... but we have no way of knowing that. 

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All China understands us brute force. We should send every international student from China back to China. That they would understand. Enough is enough.

 

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We should arrest anyone who can't drive and put them in camps in the North. That would have every Chinese Canadian

in jail by night fall. Then the Chinese would get it. Also everyone should boycott Walmart.

War! Let's go.

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I'm for banning Chinese tech from the 5G network. We already see the problem with alleged spyware in Huawei phones. Plus the US government has blocked the use of Chinese 5G network technology in the United States, and strongly recommends Canada/ others do likewise. If we buy their tech and the US has black-balled it, where do we stand in terms of trust?

But the complicating factor is still what I wrote above. Siding with the USA on this is akin to declaring a war of sorts. Then those Canadians will be dead.

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15 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

But the complicating factor is still what I wrote above. Siding with the USA on this is akin to declaring a war of sorts. Then those Canadians will be dead.

The Michaels are in a bad situation with no options . . . . no winners here.  The US played us perfectly.

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Canada is getting what it deserves for trying to play Beijing off of Washington.  

Can't have a foot in Fortress America and People's Republic of China at the same time,  Canada, cry us a river about it.

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3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I'm for banning Chinese tech from the 5G network. We already see the problem with alleged spyware in Huawei phones. Plus the US government has blocked the use of Chinese 5G network technology in the United States, and strongly recommends Canada/ others do likewise. If we buy their tech and the US has black-balled it, where do we stand in terms of trust?

But the complicating factor is still what I wrote above. Siding with the USA on this is akin to declaring a war of sorts. Then those Canadians will be dead.

They won't be dead. The Chinese only care about them as bargaining chips. Killing them would be counter-productive. But anyway, it was their choice to go live in China. Both were big fans of Asian dictatorships. Kind of ironic they get grabbed up by one.

Edited by Argus

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On 10/9/2019 at 5:51 PM, Army Guy said:

Perhaps it is time for a female PM, some one like Margret thatcher would be good. I mean we have already tried all the male wingnuts, the draw is empty...

But we already have a feminist PM in Canada. His name is Trudeau. :D

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On 10/9/2019 at 8:47 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Canada is no longer seen as an "honest broker", no longer has a "seat at the table", is no longer a military "middle power", and has even declined in the peacekeeping roles of the past.    Canada is even seen as weak on climate change, despite the virtue signaling.

Canada cannot reasonably expect for the United States to bear the most burden in protecting the post WW2 international order while declining on so many fronts.

I guess the good news is that Canada cannot get much weaker....with new leadership....things can improve.

I am still waiting to hear from some of our dear leaders as to what are they going to do about those two Canadians stuck in some Chinese communist gulag. It seems that with our brave and tough dear leaders in Canada, they have left those two Canadians to try and defend for themselves. There is no Canadian politician willing to come to their aid. Just let this be a lesson to all you Canadians out there. Don't go to China. You may be next to get arrested and end up in some Chinese communist gulag. Hey, you never know. 

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7 hours ago, jacee said:

Retaliation is a choice to ramp up a conflict. 

It's certainly not a good first choice, and in no one's best interests. 

I'd like to think there are important private discussions and negotiation going on, as that's the best route ... but we have no way of knowing that. 

Sometimes, retaliation is good and hopefully will wake up the ones that you are dealing with by saying enough already. It's time to retaliate against China. Everybody seems to miss one thing here. One cannot deal with communists in a fair and sane manner. The communists will only laugh at anyone who tries to deal with them by trying to kiss their communist asses. Sadly, our Canadian politicians only know how to kiss ass anyone and everyone who demands something from them. Canada is a country full of losers who only know as to how to capitulate to their enemies. Two Canadians get arrested in China and are thrown in some communist gulag, for doing nothing, and not one politician seems to give a rats ass. 

It's funny how nobody seems to care less about what China and Saudi Arabia does with their citizen.s, but the same people sure did give a dam about apartheid. I guess that if one belongs to a certain people of color, they get the attention, and get sanctioned. China murders it's opponents, Saudi Arabia murders their opponents, and not one politician in Canada gives a dam. 

Canada is a bloody joke, and China can run circles around Canada because we have gutless and wimpy politically correct politicians. Even Scheer appears to not give a dam about the two Canadians locked up in some Chinese communist gulag. Scheer is supposed to be a conservative, not a snowflake liberal. Where the hell is Canada's Trump? :unsure:

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