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marcus

People's Party of Canada

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So much noise from a loud minority and at the end, a major failure.

It just goes to show that this kind of "populism" has very little support in Canada.

I would be surprised if the PPC or Maxime Bernier, who couldn't even win in his own riding, will try to make any comebacks.

Good riddance.

Edited by marcus
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7 hours ago, marcus said:

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It was an obvious failure from the beginning. Classical Liberal Conservatism doesn't fly in Canada, they are just labeled as "White Supremacist Nazi's" by the media, and the rubes eat it up. The PPC was always merely a protest vote against CPC cuckery, that's how the party was born in the first place.

Edited by Charles Anthony
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Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

It was an obvious failure from the beginning. Classical Liberal Conservatism doesn't fly in Canada, they are just labeled as "White Supremacist Nazi's" by the media, and the rubes eat it up. The PPC was always merely a protest vote against CPC cuckery.

The PPC was a vanity project by Maxime.

How is the CPC selling out?

If you go back and look at Mulroney's party and its policies, you'll see that they were actually closer to the centre than the current CPC party. They actually took steps to protect and conserve the environment. Mulroney led the way in the world with policies to heal the ozone layer, from damage caused by aerosol sprays and coolants.

The fear being displayed by some conservatives right now has nothing to do with changes in the policies of the CPC, because their policies have not changed much. Those who are mad at the CPC are mad because the party refuses to pull a suicidal act, like Bernier did, to appease a loud minority, by denouncing immigration and immigrants.

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4 minutes ago, marcus said:

The PPC was a vanity project by Maxime.

How is the CPC selling out?

If you go back and look at Mulroney's party and its policies, you'll see that they were actually closer to the centre than the current CPC party. They actually took steps to protect and conserve the environment. Mulroney led the way in the world with policies to heal the ozone layer, from damage caused by aerosol sprays and coolants.

The fear being displayed by some conservatives right now has nothing to do with changes in the policies of the CPC, because their policies have not changed much. Those who are mad at the CPC are mad because the party refuses to pull a suicidal act, like Bernier did, to appease a loud minority, by denouncing immigration and immigrants.

The Conservatives are simply Liberal Lite Cuckservatives. Scheer's entire campaign strategy was to pander to Blue Liberals in Ontario. Every time they get into power, they govern by caving in the face of never ending Liberal outrage, no matter how hard they cuck, see Stephen Harper, see Doug Ford. If you are unable to see the obvious, no amount of facts will convince you otherwise.

Edited by Yzermandius19

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Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

The Conservatives are simply Liberal Lite Cuckservatives. Scheer's entire campaign strategy was to pander to Blue Liberals in Ontario.

When did they sell out? When were they any different than now?

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2 minutes ago, marcus said:

When did they sell out? When were they any different than now?

They've always been sell outs, from the beginning. They were never not sell outs. They are Liberals with a different name and different gang colors, fake opposition.

Edited by Yzermandius19

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54 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

They've always been sell outs, from the beginning. They were never not sell outs. They are Liberals with a different name and different gang colors, fake opposition.

Fair. I accept that they're not any different than the Liberals. What does this mean? Are the PPC the real conservatives? Why did they not get any support? People were scared to support them due to labels? Why did Trump receive support down South? Maxime had very similar ideas and talking points as Trump. Yet, Maxime failed. 

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7 minutes ago, marcus said:

Fair. I accept that they're not any different than the Liberals. What does this mean? Are the PPC the real conservatives? Why did they not get any support? People were scared to support them due to labels? Why did Trump receive support down South? Maxime had very similar ideas and talking points as Trump. Yet, Maxime failed. 

They got no support, because classical liberal conservatism is not popular in Canada, and Canadians are knee-jerk anti-Americans who associate it with America.

Canada is not America, that shit is a lot more popular south of the border. It's not rocket science, Canadians are suckers for central planning as the solution to everything, and that leaves classical liberalism conservatism well outside the overton window.

Also Trump is an infinitely more charismatic politician than Bernier, and Trump panders to economic nationalists that Bernier spits in the faces of, so there's that too.

Edited by Yzermandius19

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1 hour ago, marcus said:

Fair. I accept that they're not any different than the Liberals. What does this mean? Are the PPC the real conservatives? Why did they not get any support? People were scared to support them due to labels? Why did Trump receive support down South? Maxime had very similar ideas and talking points as Trump. Yet, Maxime failed. 

 

Trump received far more support "down South" because his brand of populism and message already had a ready made audience, primed by years of liberal/progressive excesses.

Populism has also been successful in Canada when leader and message find their audience (e.g. famer-labour,  Tommy Douglas, Jack Layton).

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7 hours ago, marcus said:

Fair. I accept that they're not any different than the Liberals. What does this mean? Are the PPC the real conservatives? Why did they not get any support? People were scared to support them due to labels? Why did Trump receive support down South? Maxime had very similar ideas and talking points as Trump. Yet, Maxime failed. 

Hi Marcus, I think it is possible the PPC failed because of the media. Rarely seen him displayed on the news - CTV, CBC, etc. Not much on the internet either unless you went to the PPC website to learn more. I was very disappointed about that. Even had to fight to get into one debate.  Pretty much the only time I heard about him was when his party was being called racist, or the rally with Antifa, etc. Trump was really out of the box, ran for President with big bucks and received overwhelming media coverage. Some of course, Fake News! I attended one of Bernier's rallies and there were protesters outside and inside about 175 people and seeing afterwards how many votes he received in that riding amounted to less then the attendance at the rally....and I agree that perhaps people were scared to support due to labels. Canada may be ready for his party in the next election? Americans were certainly ready for change when Trump was running.

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The angry brand of populism won't fly right now because Canada is living in a artificial free money party la-la-land.

It won't last, at some point Canadians will have to pay the piper.

Then things will get rowdy.

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The PPC ran a candidate in every riding just months after starting to organize, and got 270,000 votes. Reform didn't get that many votes its first election. The Greens needed EIGHT elections to garner that much support. The PPC have 40,000 members and will now have time to properly organize so they can vet future candidates and develop the kind of an organization they lacked this time around.

Furthermore, the reason why the Left hates them so much, their desire to cut immigration and implement value tests on immigrants, remain widely popular.

The smug cheering from the Left about how it's all over is more than slightly premature.

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The populists simply have not coalesced into a single formation.

They're all spread around, many are on the left as well.

There has to be some sort of crisis to drive them all together.

That is what happened in America, when the Blue Collar Democrats in the Rust Belt united with the Red State Rednecks in Dixie.

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Observe as well, the asymmetrical dictatorship of the Toronto - Montreal - Ottawa Iron Triangle.

50 seats in the GTA, an absurdly disproportionate number for such a small region of a supposed federation.

Toronto rules the rest of Canada as its colonies.

The election map is mostly Blue, but that tiny little Red dot in Southern Ontario keeps the Elite Consensus snug as bugs in their public sector funded Ivory Towers.

National Helicopter Mommy and her CBC state propaganda arm ftw.

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50 minutes ago, Argus said:

The PPC ran a candidate in every riding just months after starting to organize, and got 270,000 votes. Reform didn't get that many votes its first election. The Greens needed EIGHT elections to garner that much support. The PPC have 40,000 members and will now have time to properly organize so they can vet future candidates and develop the kind of an organization they lacked this time around.

Furthermore, the reason why the Left hates them so much, their desire to cut immigration and implement value tests on immigrants, remain widely popular.

The smug cheering from the Left about how it's all over is more than slightly premature.

Also Argus, the PPC wanted to defund the CBC. Lots of dollars saved here :)

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The problem for Bernier is that any new good ideas that the PPC might have, including on immigration, are overshadowed by a handful of extreme elements.  The immigration debate is an important one, but it cannot be about race.  Having a discussion about values should be fine, but clearly even that was perceived as a cloaked form of race-based immigration by the general public.   The public’s touchiness on the subject and the fear of political figures to tackle and resolve a way forward on this are a huge problem for Canada, because we really could compromise the country without better control of immigration.  

I think as more irregular border crossings, mass migrations, straining of public services, conflicts between cultural groups, overcrowding of certain regions, escalating home prices, and increased competition for jobs and resources occurs, especially in times of recession, the public will no longer ignore the impact or avoid the conversation.  As the economy is relatively strong, few are paying attention.   I prefer a controlled burn to a forest fire.  Better to plan carefully than to push people in the water because there aren’t enough life rafts.  It cannot be and should not be about race or identity politics.  This is about managing the inflow of new immigrants in a responsible way that meets the country’s goals without causing security threats or creating other problems.  

Edited by Zeitgeist

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12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The problem for Bernier is that any new good ideas that the PPC might have, including on immigration, are overshadowed by a handful of extreme elements. 

You're never going to get any significant change from bourgeois Normies, the extreme elements are the drivers of change, the NPC's just vote for their handouts, forever.

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Maggie Thatcher was an extreme element until she wasn't

The leftists dismissed her as the Grocer's Daughter, but the Iron Lady was not for turning.

When the Liberal elites drop the ball and the piper has to be paid, the extreme elements on the fringe become the new center.

Then they slaughter the sacred cows.

 

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5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

You're never going to get any significant change from bourgeois Normies, the extreme elements are the drivers of change, the NPC's just vote for their handouts, forever.

I agree but the public and political opponents seize on the outliers as the reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.  We barely got to hear any policy from Bernier because he was drowned out by shrill protesters.   I may not agree with everything he says, but I like to hear his positions, as I like to hear from the lefties. 

Edited by Zeitgeist

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4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I agree but the public and political opponents seize on the outliers as the reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.  We barely got to hear any policy from Bernier because he was drowned out by shrill protesters.   I may not agree with everything he says, but I like to hear his positions, as I like to hear from the lefties. 

But again tho, these things are being shaped by macro forces, now is simply not the right time to pounce.

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If you want a right wing backlash in the future, vote for the far left now.

If you want the PPC to win, first you have to put the NDP in and let them blow themselves up.

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Just now, SpankyMcFarland said:

The political arena is a marketplace and I don’t see a big demand there for a rightward shift by the Tories. 

Because it's a free money party with sub 3% interest rates and Canadians haven't defaulted on their mortgages to be thrown into the streets yet.

Wait and see, free money parties are always followed by a correction.

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The sequence of events will go like this;

When the crisis hits, people will prolly run to the NDP because the Dippers will promise them Fairy's and Unicorns.  Hopey Changey.

Then when that inevitably fails miserably, that is when the mood with get really ugly and the reactionaries will rule.

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