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1 minute ago, jacee said:

Counter-speech is freedom of expression too.

Nobody promised anyone an adoring audience.

Nobody has said they wanted one.   Counter speech is OK as long as they don't demand that the other party not be allowed to speak, which they do and often get. 

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So Meghan Murphy gave a talk at a Toronto Library yesterday. And in this talk she said nothing more than 90% of Canadians wouldn't fully agree with. Men are men. Women are women. If you have a penis y

That's not it, more people on the right simply don't go to events they don't like, to ruin the good time of people who do like those events, while those on left go to shit they hate to rain on everyon

That's quite the claim. Cite required.

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5 hours ago, jacee said:

Transgender people weren't enraged when the homophobic Christian bigots brought their hatred to try to disrupt Pride Fest. Transgender people were just determined to block them and shield Pride Fest from their  hate signs and loudspeakers. And they did.

It was the hateful and furious Christian homophobes who attacked the transgender people violently. 

Your generalized fear of transgender people - transphobia - is noted. But the world moves on without you. Trans people have the protection of the Constitution and hate propaganda laws, which put reasonable limits on  your freedom of expression. 

Maybe try 'live and let live' as a philosophy, to put less stress on your vital organs. Such futile hatred is a health threat. Chill your jets, man. 

So it's cool for the transgenders to stop people from coming to their events and shutting down their speech, but it's not cool for the christians to do the same to the transgenders? Double standard, only the left is allowed to have free speech in jacee world, disrupting right wing groups from having public events is to be encouraged and the left needs to attend these events in mass to shut them down under the delusion that no one wants to hear them talk anyway, while preventing the disruption of left wing groups having public events is oppression and everyone wants to hear them talk except right wing bigots.

Apparently the left is entitled to an adoring audience, but the right is not allowed to have one without the haters trying to drown them out, according to jacee.

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11 hours ago, scribblet said:

Nobody has said they wanted one.   Counter speech is OK as long as they don't demand that the other party not be allowed to speak, which they do and often get. 

Sometimes people get booed off the stage. Oh well. 

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6 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

So it's cool for the transgenders to stop people from coming to their events and shutting down their speech, but it's not cool for the christians to do the same to the transgenders? Double standard, only the left is allowed to have free speech in jacee world, disrupting right wing groups from having public events is to be encouraged and the left needs to attend these events in mass to shut them down under the delusion that no one wants to hear them talk anyway, while preventing the disruption of left wing groups having public events is oppression and everyone wants to hear them talk except right wing bigots.

Apparently the left is entitled to an adoring audience, but the right is not allowed to have one without the haters trying to drown them out, according to jacee.

Gee, I guess the alt-right hate groups just aren't too popular. No one wants to listen. Oh well. 

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15 minutes ago, jacee said:

Gee, I guess the alt-right hate groups just aren't too popular. No one wants to listen. Oh well. 

That's not it, more people on the right simply don't go to events they don't like, to ruin the good time of people who do like those events, while those on left go to shit they hate to rain on everyone's parade that they disagree with, because they feel they are the only judges of what is acceptable. The right supports free speech far more than the left, and they let other people enjoy things they don't far more than left as well.

When the right tries to censor things they don't like, they are morons as well, but the left simply adopt the social conservative stance of trying to shut down things they find to be immoral, they are just for conserving progressive idea instead, but are trying to drown out all dissent to their version of "morality", just like the worst of the social conservatives, while decrying the conservatives who do exactly the same thing.

You've become the worst parts of the very groups you hate on the most, to the point where you are outdoing them and acting far worse than them on average, and you don't even realize it just like they don't, because of a false sense of moral superiority and a complete lack of self awareness.

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36 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

That's not it, more people on the right simply don't go to events they don't like, to ruin the good time of people who do like those events, while those on left go to shit they hate to rain on everyone's parade that they disagree with, because they feel they are the only judges of what is acceptable. The right supports free speech far more than the left, and they let other people enjoy things they don't far more than left as well.

When the right tries to censor things they don't like, they are morons as well, but the left simply adopt the social conservative stance of trying to shut down things they find to be immoral, they are just for conserving progressive idea instead, but are trying to drown out all dissent to their version of "morality", just like the worst of the social conservatives, while decrying the conservatives who do exactly the same thing.

You've become the worst parts of the very groups you hate on the most, to the point where you are outdoing them and acting far worse than them on average, and you don't even realize it just like they don't, because of a false sense of moral superiority and a complete lack of self awareness.

Well, that's just a stew of hogwash, speculation and stupid. Links to support your claims, please? Lol 

The truth is as I said: Alt-right, far-right, hate groups just aren't very popular. They get booed off the stage. Nobody promised them an adoring audience, nobody wants to hear them.

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3 minutes ago, jacee said:

Well, that's just a stew of hogwash, speculation and stupid. Links to support your claims, please? Lol 

The truth is as I said: Alt-right, far-right, hate groups just aren't very popular. They get booed off the stage. Nobody promised them an adoring audience, nobody wants to hear them.

They only get booed off stage by haters who never liked them anyway and never had any intention of listening to them. You assuming that no one likes them is just you living in a bubble. Most these people aren't alt-right, far-right or hate groups, you just think anyone to right of you is a Nazi, and isn't popular. It's all delusion.

If I showed you links, you would move the goalposts, you have intention of changing your mind no matter how many facts are against you. Stop pretending otherwise, you just want to call anyone who disagrees with you a white supremacist.

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1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

They only get booed off stage by haters who never liked them anyway and never had any intention of listening to them. You assuming that no one likes them is just you living in a bubble. Most these people aren't alt-right, far-right or hate groups, you just think anyone to right of you is a Nazi.

I know you hold extremist far-right opinions, and the hate groups you protect and pretend to speak for. 

But you haven't provided any links to evidence to support anything you're saying, so you have no credibility. 

Victimization of transgender people by police is so widespread that Law and Order: Special Victims' Unit just included it in an episode. 

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30 minutes ago, jacee said:

Victimization of transgender people by police is so widespread that Law and Order: Special Victims' Unit just included it in an episode.

 

Well, if it's included in a fictional American television drama, then it must be true...in Canada !

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12 hours ago, jacee said:

Counter-speech is freedom of expression too.

Nobody promised anyone an adoring audience.

Well then some not all gay and transgendered people should not expect to be adored is the point. If you feel the necessity to turn sexual lifestyle or identity choices into a public matter, you should expect backlash from some. It goes with the territory of making anything public. I think that is the point some are making on this thread without necessarily being for or against any lifestyle or identity choice. Me, I think these things should be a private decision and I personally feel  if you over emphasize your physical attributes in public, you can expect negative feedback. Its part of a preoccupation we all have for material or physical values, not spiritual ones. Its a sign of the times where we all get caught up on surface in your face values and don't dig deeper to find out what makes people tick. Its just the way it is today with people glued to ten second messages brainwashing them to buy and dispose of items and therefore values.

Someone comfortable with themselves and who they are doesn't need to preach who they are, their confidence and actions do the talking.

I maintain the position that unless sexual preference engages or encourages violence or the exploitation of vulnerable people and non consensual sex, it should not be a state matter.

Hollywood has jumped on the transgender issue as they do any issue. Its the trend of the moment so they ride it. They will move on to another trend just as they quickly moved off of Harvey Weinstein to transgenderism. They will no doubt find some other trend soon. Hollywood and the media simply reflect the trend of the day. Look at all the young women who feel it necessary to say they are bisexual and announce it. Its a p.r. stunt to put there name in the news that is all.

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9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Well, if it's included in a fictional American television drama, then it must be true...in Canada !

Excuse me the only television drama that accurately depicts Canada is Corner Gas which has been off the air for a few years now and was the best real life documentary I have ever seen about Canada. Please watch it. You could learn a lot from it how to avoid cholesterol and wars.

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48 minutes ago, Rue said:

Well then some not all gay and transgendered people should not expect to be adored is the point. If you feel the necessity to turn sexual lifestyle or identity choices into a public matter, you should expect backlash from some. It goes with the territory of making anything public. I think that is the point some are making on this thread without necessarily being for or against any lifestyle or identity choice.

If you are constantly violently attacked because of your gender expression, by police as well as other fascist haters, it is necessary to go public, to educate the public, to hold the people and the police accountable for their unjust, prejudiced and violent actions. 

Would you tell someone to 'just be quietly Jewish, don't make waves, don't demand justice' in the face of prejudice and violence? 

Oh, I see, you did address that:

Quote

I maintain the position that unless sexual preference engages or encourages violence or the exploitation of vulnerable people

 and non consensual sex, it should not be a state matter.

Yes, that is the situation. Transgender people are disproportionally targeted for sexual and violent assault, and police often target them too. 

"You caught the Vic?"

... is a true statement of how police interact with trans people. It happened in my town just this year, repeatedly: After violent attacks on them by homophobes, police 'caught' 3 trans people, 2 of them victims of the violence, and one who was not even there.

So now what do you suggest?

They should just shut up about it? 

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14 hours ago, jacee said:

Transgender people weren't enraged when the homophobic Christian bigots brought their hatred to try to disrupt Pride Fest. Transgender people were just determined to block them and shield Pride Fest from their  hate signs and loudspeakers. And they did.

With violence. Well, the extremist left shows up at every public engagement of any conservative person or any person opposing their extremist views, and they bring hatred and signs and loudspeakers. What you are suggesting is that the right ought to use violence against such protestors.

14 hours ago, jacee said:

It was the hateful and furious Christian homophobes who attacked the transgender people violently. 

Or the hateful, psychologically unbalanced transgenders attacked the homophobes.

14 hours ago, jacee said:

Your generalized fear of transgender people - transphobia - is noted. But the world moves on without you. Trans people have the protection of the Constitution and hate propaganda laws, which put reasonable limits on  your freedom of expression.

The Canadian people are not with the extremists on this one. And no, trans types have no such protection. They Trudeau government passed a law to force people to pretend they are actually the gender they pretend to, but that's easily done away with.

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2 hours ago, jacee said:

Gee, I guess the alt-right hate groups just aren't too popular. No one wants to listen. Oh well. 

If no one wants to listen then why does the extremist-left turn out in huge crowds to scream and shout and try to physically attack their speakers?

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1 hour ago, jacee said:

If you are constantly violently attacked because of your gender expression, by police as well as other fascist haters,

They're not. They're attacked for being prostitutes or by other psychologically damaged people they're having sex with.

Additionally, the survey confirmed the astronomical rates of HIV infection: five times the general population (1.4 percent vs. 0.3 percent). It lists 3.4 percent of transgender men (men living as if they were women) having HIV, and an incredible 19 percent of black men living as women — nearly one in five — having the life-threatening precursor to AIDS.

Twelve percent of transgender respondents report prostituting themselves (the NCTE calls prostitution "sex work in exchange for income"). More than three-quarters (77 percent) have experienced partner violence.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/transgender-survey-reveals-high-rates-of-sexual-assault-suicide-hiv-prostit

 

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

With violence.

Only the Christian homophobes were violent. Transgender and other LGBTQ people defended themselves and others by blocking the violent attacks of the Christian homophobes. They successfully prevented the Christian homophobes from disrupting Pride Fest. 

I think you were seen there among the homophobes, 'Argus'. You're not the type to participate in the violence, though. You're the type who stays safely out of the way while inciting other people to commit violent hate crimes. Chris Vanderweide was one of the most violent homophobes (assault with a weapon x2). Was that you there egging him on, Argus? 

https://www.chch.com/anti-pride-protester-helmet-guy-appears-in-court/

Quote

Well, the extremist left shows up at every public engagement of any conservative person

Smearing all Conservatives by pretending they are all alt-right extremists like you, 'Argus'?  Lol

I know that ordinary Conservatives don't want to be lumped in with racist, homophobic, misogynist extremists like you. Lol 

Quote

And no, trans types have no such protection. They Trudeau government passed a law to force people to pretend they are actually the gender they pretend to, but that's easily done away with.

Not very likely, but if any party did try to exclude Trans people from human rights, it would be taken to the Supreme Court for a ruling, similar to this:

In Egan v. Canada, [1995] 2 S.C.R. 513, the Supreme Court of Canada held that although "sexual orientation" is not listed as a ground for discrimination in section 15(1) of the Charter, it constitutes an equivalent ground on which claims of discrimination may be based. 

Trans people would be explicitly protected by the Charter of Rights. 

Sad to be like the Christian homophobes, who are so threatened by the sexual orientation or gender identity of others. 

Or is it themselves? There is a lot of research suggesting that homophobia exists in those who suppress their own sexual orientation or gender identity. Chris Vanderweide's FB page used to state that his church 'cured him' of those leanings. 

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

If no one wants to listen then why does the extremist-left turn out in huge crowds to scream and shout and try to physically attack their speakers?

Not to listen to them. Lol 

Nor to violently attack them. Those are alt-right lies.

The alt-right attacks with violence, and then when people ably defend themselves from attack, the alt-right cry and lie  like wussy little babyboys. 

Like you just did. Lol 

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2 hours ago, Argus said:

They're not. They're attacked for being prostitutes or by other psychologically damaged people they're having sex with.

Prostitutes - transgender or not - are entitled to police protection and legal action against people who assault them.

Who even has to be told that?!! 

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6 hours ago, jacee said:

Gee, I guess the alt-right hate groups just aren't too popular. No one wants to listen. Oh well. 

In your frenzied imagination the speaker and her supporters are 'alt right hate groups' but you are free to categorize every day people who oppose the oppression of real/biological women, because you know, free speech for you but not for others.

No one is saying that a transgender person should be discriminated against or that it's okay for them to be attacked etc.  it is not.   There is a big difference between those who really do struggle with gender dysphoria  and aggressive LGBT etc..... activists.  Many of the aforementioned do reject the activists’ claims and some are now regarded as victims of the activists,  as mentioned in a book When Harry became Sally.  In all of this, society is losing sight of women's rights and their spaces, and that's what Murphy is about - protecting women who are finding their services are being lessened or neutralized. 

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1 hour ago, jacee said:

Only the Christian homophobes were violent. Transgender and other LGBTQ people defended themselves and others by blocking the violent attacks of the Christian homophobes. They successfully prevented the Christian homophobes from disrupting Pride Fest. 

I think you were seen there among the homophobes, 'Argus'. You're not the type to participate in the violence, though. You're the type who stays safely out of the way while inciting other people to commit violent hate crimes. Chris Vanderweide was one of the most violent homophobes (assault with a weapon x2). Was that you there egging him on, Argus? 

https://www.chch.com/anti-pride-protester-helmet-guy-appears-in-court/

Smearing all Conservatives by pretending they are all alt-right extremists like you, 'Argus'?  Lol

I know that ordinary Conservatives don't want to be lumped in with racist, homophobic, misogynist extremists like you. Lol 

Not very likely, but if any party did try to exclude Trans people from human rights, it would be taken to the Supreme Court for a ruling, similar to this:

In Egan v. Canada, [1995] 2 S.C.R. 513, the Supreme Court of Canada held that although "sexual orientation" is not listed as a ground for discrimination in section 15(1) of the Charter, it constitutes an equivalent ground on which claims of discrimination may be based. 

Trans people would be explicitly protected by the Charter of Rights. 

Sad to be like the Christian homophobes, who are so threatened by the sexual orientation or gender identity of others. 

Or is it themselves? There is a lot of research suggesting that homophobia exists in those who suppress their own sexual orientation or gender identity. Chris Vanderweide's FB page used to state that his church 'cured him' of those leanings. 

So you equate Christians with homophobes.  So offensive.  

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9 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Haven't seen any Christians throwing gays off buildings or executing them.

When the Roman Empire came under Christian rule, all male homosexual activity was increasingly repressed, often on pain of death.[11] In 342 CE, the Christian emperors Constantius and Constans declared same-sex marriage to be illegal.[12] Shortly after, in the year 390 CE, emperors Valentinian II, Theodosius I and Arcadius declared homosexual sex to be illegal and those who were guilty of it were condemned to be publicly burned alive.

 

You should watch Brokeback Mountain.  

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4 hours ago, jacee said:

 

Would you tell someone to 'just be quietly Jewish, don't make waves, don't demand justice' in the face of prejudice and violence? 

 

They should just shut up about it? 

I LOVE IT WHEN YOU PLAY THE JEW CARD.

What is  being discussed is not simply or solely transgendered individuals protesting injustice as you are well aware and once we are on the topic, if I thought a Jewish person or ANY person not just a Jewish person, was shoving their values in my face I would tell them to shut up. Hope that is clear as I can be when you play the Jew card which is a crock of sheeyat when dealing with what I said.

 

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