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Kenney Picks Fight with Ottawa to Make Himself Look Good

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On 11/22/2019 at 4:09 PM, jacee said:

Indigenous Nations (the original Nations, not the First Nations that Canada created by force) have treaties with the Crown, represented in Canada by the Governor General. The treaties are not with Canada, but with the Queen. The "feds" just administer the treaties, often fraudulently. Indigenous Nations do have a say in what happens with their traditional territories and who's administering the related treaties, and so does the Queen. 

I remember clearly that Indigenous Nations in Quebec did raise the issue of their land rights and treaties amidst the separation crisis. It was a turning point, and things settled down from there: whether a "veto" exists or not, official leadership in Quebec recognized that it was a significant complication.

Leaders in both government and business in Alberta are not participating in the #Wexit nonsense, perhaps for that and other reasons. There is no serious threat of separation: Just some angry/sad oil workers venting. Understandable, but not a credible threat. 

We all know that the demise of the western oil industry means less federal tax revenue, and that Alberta may become a have-not province receiving equalization. That's life. 

If you want to get technical then sure , the treaties are with the crown...your right i'm wrong.....  Just a question if the feds were to use your logic and just tell first nations, we are not going to honor anything unless it is in our( feds)  best interest who are they going to take that up with the governor general, what is she to do about it, call out the Military ? 

That is not what I said, there was no talk of first nations stopping the separation process , as they don't have veto powers.....There was lots of talk involving first nations regarding land rights, and locations...Like I said before first nations does not hold all the cards either, compromise will have to come from all sides regardless of treaties they will be a nation within a nation and need an agreement to travel / trade, have commence flow though Alberta...like I said comprise...

Wetix is growing not shrieking , you and Justin can ignore it if you want, but it is there and it is only getting bigger...

Again bullshit, until you climate Barbie's find a replacement for carbon based fuels, the oil will continue to come out of the ground ... money has always trumped virtue every time … Thats life... and don't think because they place a tax on fuel somehow we are going to stop burning it....you Liberals in the cities have an option of taking mass transit,but the rest of the people in the rural areas do not. The western oil industry is far from dead , the reason for this down turn is the ROC and not building pipelines, to get our product to the ROC and to tide water... 

but you still need to heat your homes, power up your phones and devices.....that all that electrical power is not magically appear out of the wall it takes fossil fuels to make it.......And don't be fooled for one minute if you think taxing fuels and then giving it back is going to make any great difference in the global climate ... 

 

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15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

1) If you want to get technical then sure , the treaties are with the crown...your right i'm wrong.....  Just a question if the feds were to use your logic and just tell first nations, we are not going to honor anything unless it is in our( feds)  best interest who are they going to take that up with the governor general, what is she to do about it, call out the Military ? 

 That is not what I said, there was no talk of first nations stopping the separation process , as they don't have veto powers.....There was lots of talk involving first nations regarding land rights, and locations...Like I said before first nations does not hold all the cards either, compromise will have to come from all sides regardless of treaties they will be a nation within a nation and need an agreement to travel / trade, have commence flow though Alberta...like I said comprise...

2)Wetix is growing not shrieking , you and Justin can ignore it if you want, but it is there and it is only getting bigger...

Again bullshit, until you climate Barbie's find a replacement for carbon based fuels, the oil will continue to come out of the ground ... money has always trumped virtue every time … Thats life... and don't think because they place a tax on fuel somehow we are going to stop burning it....you Liberals in the cities have an option of taking mass transit,but the rest of the people in the rural areas do not. The western oil industry is far from dead , the reason for this down turn is the ROC and not building pipelines, to get our product to the ROC and to tide water... 

3) but you still need to heat your homes, power up your phones and devices.....that all that electrical power is not magically appear out of the wall it takes fossil fuels to make it.......And don't be fooled for one minute if you think taxing fuels and then giving it back is going to make any great difference in the global climate ... 

 

1) Indigenous Nations would take it to the Supreme Court. If the feds failed to respect the SC rulings, then yes, the route would be to the GG who (as Commander in Chief)  has the power to activate the military against a rogue federal government out of control and in violation of the laws. All only in a severe crisis, of course. 

 And ... actually the other way around: Alberta will have to negotiate trade, commerce and land use with Indigenous Nations: Their traditional lands cover all of Alberta (and Canada).

2) Wexit is a small extremist bunch of unemployed?, upset oil workers being jacked up by white supremacists fomenting violence and war. They have no leaders capable of negotiating or implementing any such thing, nor even understanding the complexities. There is no support from any government or business leaders nor mainstream Albertans. 

If the Wexiteers want to Wexit themselves to a mountain hideout  and claim a 'sovereign nation', they can. But Albertans are not interested. Sask. hasn't spoken up, BC & Man. neither. 

And btw, WHERE IN YOUR POST DID YOU MENTION THAT THE DROP IN THE PRICE OF OIL IS THE MAIN PROBLEM? WHERE DID YOU MENTION THAT INVESTORS ABANDONING FOSSIL FUELS IS A PROBLEM? WHERE DID YOU MENTION THAT FOSSIL FUELS THEMSELVES ARE A PROBLEM? 

Wexit is an angry response, trying to blame someone, but it would be very costly, would not fix anything but just make Alberta's situation worse, not a reasonable solution to anything at all. 

3) The rollout of renewable energy will happen so fast your head will spin. 

Edited by jacee

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3 hours ago, jacee said:

1) Indigenous Nations would take it to the Supreme Court. If the feds failed to respect the SC rulings, then yes, the route would be to the GG who (as Commander in Chief)  has the power to activate the military against a rogue federal government out of control and in violation of the laws. All only in a severe crisis, of course. 

 And ... actually the other way around: Alberta will have to negotiate trade, commerce and land use with Indigenous Nations: Their traditional lands cover all of Alberta (and Canada).

2) Wexit is a small extremist bunch of unemployed?, upset oil workers being jacked up by white supremacists fomenting violence and war. They have no leaders capable of negotiating or implementing any such thing, nor even understanding the complexities. There is no support from any government or business leaders nor mainstream Albertans. 

If the Wexiteers want to Wexit themselves to a mountain hideout  and claim a 'sovereign nation', they can. But Albertans are not interested. Sask. hasn't spoken up, BC & Man. neither. 

And btw, WHERE IN YOUR POST DID YOU MENTION THAT THE DROP IN THE PRICE OF OIL IS THE MAIN PROBLEM? WHERE DID YOU MENTION THAT INVESTORS ABANDONING FOSSIL FUELS IS A PROBLEM? WHERE DID YOU MENTION THAT FOSSIL FUELS THEMSELVES ARE A PROBLEM? 

Wexit is an angry response, trying to blame someone, but it would be very costly, would not fix anything but just make Alberta's situation worse, not a reasonable solution to anything at all. 

3) The rollout of renewable energy will happen so fast your head will spin. 

They've been saying that for years. I remember hearing most people would be driving electric cars by 2000. You won't live long enough to see the transformation. Suck it up. Oil is here to stay.

Edited by ProudConservative

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6 hours ago, jacee said:

1) Indigenous Nations would take it to the Supreme Court. If the feds failed to respect the SC rulings, then yes, the route would be to the GG who (as Commander in Chief)  has the power to activate the military against a rogue federal government out of control and in violation of the laws. All only in a severe crisis, of course. 

 And ... actually the other way around: Alberta will have to negotiate trade, commerce and land use with Indigenous Nations: Their traditional lands cover all of Alberta (and Canada).

2) Wexit is a small extremist bunch of unemployed?, upset oil workers being jacked up by white supremacists fomenting violence and war. They have no leaders capable of negotiating or implementing any such thing, nor even understanding the complexities. There is no support from any government or business leaders nor mainstream Albertans. 

If the Wexiteers want to Wexit themselves to a mountain hideout  and claim a 'sovereign nation', they can. But Albertans are not interested. Sask. hasn't spoken up, BC & Man. neither. 

And btw, WHERE IN YOUR POST DID YOU MENTION THAT THE DROP IN THE PRICE OF OIL IS THE MAIN PROBLEM? WHERE DID YOU MENTION THAT INVESTORS ABANDONING FOSSIL FUELS IS A PROBLEM? WHERE DID YOU MENTION THAT FOSSIL FUELS THEMSELVES ARE A PROBLEM? 

Wexit is an angry response, trying to blame someone, but it would be very costly, would not fix anything but just make Alberta's situation worse, not a reasonable solution to anything at all. 

3) The rollout of renewable energy will happen so fast your head will spin. 

 

Quote

 

Crown lands[edit]

The majority of all lands in Canada are held by governments as public land and are known as Crown lands. About 89% of Canada's land area (8,886,356 km²) is Crown land, which may either be federal (41%) or provincial (48%); the remaining 11% is privately owned.[2] Most federally administered land is in the Canadian territories (Northwest Territories, Nunavut and Yukon), and is administered on behalf of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada; only 4% of land in the provinces is federally controlled, largely in the form of National Parks, Indian reserves, or Canadian Forces bases. In contrast, provinces hold much of their territory as provincial Crown land, which may be held as Provincial Parks or wilderness.

The largest class of landowners are the provincial governments, who hold all unclaimed land in their jurisdiction. Over 90% of the sprawling boreal forest of Canada is provincial Crown land.[3] Provincial lands account for 60% of the area of the province of Alberta,[4] 94% of the land in British Columbia,[5] 95% of Newfoundland and Labrador,[2] and 48% of New Brunswick.[6]

The largest single landowner in Canada by far, and by extension one of the world's largest, is the Government of Canada. The bulk of the federal government's lands are in the vast northern territories where Crown lands are vested in the federal, rather than territorial, government. In addition the federal government owns national parks, First Nations reserves and national defence installations.

 

The GG can not activate the military by herself....not without feds support or approval, thats a safety device built into our government's policies to ensure either side could call out the military on a whim...

 

I'm not a lawyer, but i've found in a couple of sources that First nations do not own all of Alberta.. 60% of that land belongs to Alberta (provincial government) with the feds and first nations owning the rest...first nations owning a fraction of that 40 % THAT REMAINS. I highly doubt that once Alberta does separate the SSC will not have much of a  say in Alberta's governmental policies. And if you think our military is going to race in their to save the day your wrong, by the time the soldiers from the west leaves Canada's military there won't be a viable unit any where and what is left from the east, well do you think they are not going to think twice before fighting their own brothers and sisters....Beside Canadian citizens have seen to it that our military has very limited amount of offensive capabilities...One more thing i'd like to remind you is the western Army's battle group is in Alberta, along with our the rest of our CF-18 fleet....Don't need ships when your land locked...So much for the military option ….

Regardless of who needs to negotiate with whom first, all sides will need to comprise in order to have a peaceful solution...if they don't then their will be conflict like in most 95 % of all separations do...

Wexit is a thing and is growing in numbers everyday and if the pipeline does not get started in 2020 it will only get bigger, and while you chose to ignore it or see it as a potential problem thats your chioce...and if you don't think the other western provinces don't have some support for this your crazy, or crazier than I thought you where I should say....hence wexit and not just Alberta xit .

Ya my head is spinning so fast right now, with all the federal moneys going into climate change i'm getting dizzy, wait a minute how much is the feds spending on climate change any how ? ....how much are the provinces?....how much is Alberta and the oil industry spending on climate change ?  I think that answer is going to shock you. ....

Edited by Army Guy

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5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 

The GG can not activate the military by herself....not without feds support or approval, thats a safety device built into our government's policies to ensure either side could call out the military on a whim...

 

I'm not a lawyer, but i've found in a couple of sources that First nations do not own all of Alberta.. 60% of that land belongs to Alberta (provincial government) with the feds and first nations owning the rest...first nations owning a fraction of that 40 % THAT REMAINS. I highly doubt that once Alberta does separate the SSC will not have much of a  say in Alberta's governmental policies. And if you think our military is going to race in their to save the day your wrong, by the time the soldiers from the west leaves Canada's military there won't be a viable unit any where and what is left from the east, well do you think they are not going to think twice before fighting their own brothers and sisters....Beside Canadian citizens have seen to it that our military has very limited amount of offensive capabilities...One more thing i'd like to remind you is the western Army's battle group is in Alberta, along with our the rest of our CF-18 fleet....Don't need ships when your land locked...So much for the military option ….

Regardless of who needs to negotiate with whom first, all sides will need to comprise in order to have a peaceful solution...if they don't then their will be conflict like in most 95 % of all separations do...

Wexit is a thing and is growing in numbers everyday and if the pipeline does not get started in 2020 it will only get bigger, and while you chose to ignore it or see it as a potential problem thats your chioce...and if you don't think the other western provinces don't have some support for this your crazy, or crazier than I thought you where I should say....hence wexit and not just Alberta xit .

Ya my head is spinning so fast right now, with all the federal moneys going into climate change i'm getting dizzy, wait a minute how much is the feds spending on climate change any how ? ....how much are the provinces?....how much is Alberta and the oil industry spending on climate change ?  I think that answer is going to shock you. ....

It's not going to happen, Army guy. 

It would be a disaster for Alberta. 

But carry on enjoying the drama while it lasts. Lol 

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15 hours ago, jacee said:

If the Wexiteers want to Wexit themselves to a mountain hideout  and claim a 'sovereign nation', they can. But Albertans are not interested. Sask. hasn't spoken up, BC & Man. neither. 

When I hear talk about western alienation I think about those of us in BC who will be faced by an Ottawa with the determination and the power to force Alberta's oil thru to the coast.

I think the resistance to building more pipelines to tidewater should include being against making our oil accessible to the worst most dangerous dictatorship on the planet.  I'd like to hear the politicians explain why selling Canadian oil to a dictatorship is more ethical than buying it from one.  Now would be a good time to do this in light of the democracy movement in Hong Kong and increased awareness of Beijing's use of mass detention and indoctrination camps.

Ironically Kenney appears all to willing to let the threat of separation force Ottawa to do something and at a time when the number of Canadians who admire Beijing's ability to use a government's force to get something done is growing.

These are proverbially interesting times we live in, increasingly dangerous and less virtuous too - something else an increasing number of people who should know better could care less about.

Edited by eyeball
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Economics of Electric Vehicles Mean Oil's Days As A Transport Fuel Are Numbered

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2019/09/02/economics-of-electric-vehicles-mean-oils-days-as-a-transport-fuel-are-numbered/?fbclid=IwAR3XxjJb0bJ_FTDrJq-9rXdUz2Bb67g79rf4dD_Wh0LXH8z030rzYvo5Aso#70deefa15102

The future is not looking bright for oil, according to a new report that claims the commodity would have to be priced at $10-$20 a barrel to remain competitive as a transport fuel.

...

More than a third (36%) of the crude oil produced today goes to fuel vehicles susceptible to electrification, and a further 5% to generate power. This means that “ the oil industry has never before in its history faced the kind of threat that renewable electricity in tandem with electric vehicles poses to its business model.

We conclude that the economics of oil for gasoline and diesel vehicles versus wind- and solar-powered EVs are now in relentless and irreversible decline, with far-reaching implications for both policymakers and the oil majors,” the report adds.

Facts are facts. Are you listening Jason Kenney? 

Kenney has a challenge: To fiercely defend the oil industry and the workers who see no future but oil ... while equally fiercely pursuing alternative industries so there is a future beyond oil for Albertans. 

When you recall that Kenney was the driving force behind stealthily wooing multicultural communities' votes for Harper, without offending monoculture Conservatives, it becomes apparent that he may have the stuff for his Alberta mission. 

We can hope. 

Edited by jacee

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What your forgetting to tell posters is all these predictions are based on 20 to 25 years from now before Oil is even close to becoming irrelevant.. and until then what do we do with our oil ? 

Until then here are some of the problems with electrical cars and trucks  Range your source says only most cars get a whooping 380 km per charge , with the longest getting 500 km per charge , Not even close to the average small to med size cars today, it takes hours to re charge a car or truck...while fossil fuels takes 10 mins to fill a tank and be gone so lack of range , and inconvenient if traveling long distances....Not to mention where are all these charging places....

Since all most all our goods travel by road, how does range and time effect the trucking industry....

Solar is a huge expense for home use, as we all are electronic pigs today, and it's only going to get worse....as more and more products come online....

wind power is starting to be a fools errand here, with animals rights groups not happy and protesting wind farms here in the Maritimes, with some not being put back on line...tech is moving at a quick pace but even they say it is going to be 20 to 25 years before in matures enough to start making a difference....Not to mention the lack of government sponsor projects and initiatives don't support any of your argument....some funding has gone into tidal power , but here where we have the highest tides in the world we have done little to take advantage of that by both provincial and federal governments... 

we all know that oil is not going to be everyone's main stay forever...Alberta and Sask want to capitalize on that while they can, and the ROC is fighting them....what an opportunity we are missing not to mention all the capital we are pissing out the window....everyone wants to transition now, they don't want to build pipe lines....but we are no where even close to doing it..

Until they come up with a new source of energy ….because solar and wind are not going to do it...we stuck using oil...thats reality, got nothing to do with climate change....

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10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

What your forgetting to tell posters is all these predictions are based on 20 to 25 years from now before Oil is even close to becoming irrelevant.. and until then what do we do with our oil ? 

I expect the oil industry can figure that out.

 The renewable energy industry will skyrocket both in technology and accessibility much faster than you suggest.

I think you should read the whole article: 

“The competitive advantage is set to shift decisively in favour of EVs over oil-powered cars in the next five years. In our view, this is much sooner than the oil industry thinks,” BNP Paribas says.

Alberta oil workers need to know the truth that the oil industry and government won't tell them. 

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On 11/22/2019 at 10:05 AM, Army Guy said:

This is not a new idea Quebec also has first nations that wanted nothing to do with Quebec separatists... but Quebec still pressed ahead, if separation is the goal here do you think first nations will stop that, perhaps becoming a nation within a nation...compromises will have to be made on all sides, if first nations does not want to play ball, and not compromise well they are surrounded for the most part, they to will be land locked as well...but we don't know that do we, I mean why would they want to stay with the feds not like they have been looking after them, maybe Alberta will offer them a better deal...

Besides current borders may change, as in Quebec's circumstance the feds where not going to land lock the Maritimes, the feds would redraw the borders to create a southern corridor...Just because you hold a referendum and win , does not mean your getting everything within todays established borders...., those borders where drawn up by the feds, and can be redrawn at anytime....    

If Alberta votes to separate, then begins negotiations between Canada, BC, Saskatchewan and all of the First Nations in Alberta. Landlocked First Nations will most certainly argue to expand their land to connect it to other FN groups and inter provincial borders.

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Like I said compromises will have to be made on all sides, that being said first nations does not hold a lot of cards here if they want to connect lands it may mean giving some up else where. But anything is possible, who knows perhaps the feds will throw BC a bone and keep southern Alberta to act as a gate way to the west ports, much like they were going to do with Quebec so the Maritimes would not be cut off from the ROC. One thing for sure the borders are not going to resemble what they do now....

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23 hours ago, Abies said:

If Alberta votes to separate, then begins negotiations between Canada, BC, Saskatchewan and all of the First Nations in Alberta. Landlocked First Nations will most certainly argue to expand their land to connect it to other FN groups and inter provincial borders.

Indigenous treaties are with the Crown, and that connection won't go away.

Still no political leaders talking 'separation', so it isn't really a thing.

Just the media making news. Lol 

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On 1/21/2020 at 6:55 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

I see Kenney is talking about closing safe-injection sites. 
https://globalnews.ca/news/6443265/alberta-supervised-consumption-sites-moved-closed

Jason Kenney said the "drug injection sites" are "now more than injections, by the way — they're just illegal sites that do all sorts of drugs, not just injectables".

These drug injection sites exist with the understanding that Elizabeth the Second is "Queen".

Elizabeth the Second is not Queen of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", contrary to the requirement in this Fifth Schedule, which states:

"Oath of Allegiance

I A.B. do swear, That I will be faithful and bear true Allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Victoria.

Note. The Name of the King or Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland for the Time being is to be substituted from Time to Time, with proper Terms of Reference thereto.".

Elizabeth the Second claims to be Queen of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

The provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick expressed their desire to be federally united into one Dominion under the Crown of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", not the Crown of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", according to the British North America Act, 1867.

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14 hours ago, dpwozney said:

Jason Kenney said the "drug injection sites" are "now more than injections, by the way — they're just illegal sites that do all sorts of drugs, not just injectables".

These drug injection sites exist with the understanding that Elizabeth the Second is "Queen".

Elizabeth the Second is not Queen of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", contrary to the requirement in this Fifth Schedule, which states:

"Oath of Allegiance

I A.B. do swear, That I will be faithful and bear true Allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Victoria.

Note. The Name of the King or Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland for the Time being is to be substituted from Time to Time, with proper Terms of Reference thereto.".

Elizabeth the Second claims to be Queen of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

The provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick expressed their desire to be federally united into one Dominion under the Crown of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", not the Crown of the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", according to the British North America Act, 1867.

What?

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On 11/30/2019 at 12:43 PM, Abies said:

If Alberta votes to separate, then begins negotiations between Canada, BC, Saskatchewan and all of the First Nations in Alberta. Landlocked First Nations will most certainly argue to expand their land to connect it to other FN groups and inter provincial borders.

Canada has become a screwed up leftist liberal bloody mess of a country. Wherever liberalism has been allowed to proceed problems will happen, and divisions will occur. It is bound to happen. And who can we all blame for this rise in division? Why, french leftist liberal Quebec of course. All Canada's problems stem from the fact that french Quebec has been allowed to run Canada for many many decades now. Just about all of our Prime Ministers of Canada for decades now have all come from french Quebec. They are all french. Now we see Alberta wanting to separate all because of Quebec that does not want to see Alberta or the rest of Canada succeed in their french controlled Canada. It's all about Quebec, don't you know? 

But Kenney is all just talk and no walk. Kenney is a federalist, and will work to screw Albertan's in any way he can. Why would he care about Alberta or Albertan's anyway? He is getting well paid and has the pleasure and distinction of being called the Premier of Alberta. All premiers of all provinces are the same. They are all pro federalist and nothing more. Indeed, what this is all about is Kenney trying to make it appear as though he has love in his heart for Alberta and Albertan's. I have learned from many decades now that no politician in Canada can be trusted to care about we the people of Canada. If they did Canada would be one hell of a wealthy country, and our Canadian dollar would become a real powerful dollar, not the peso that it has become today. Jobs are disappearing in Alberta big time but ask Kenney if he really cares? Kenney trying to deal with french controlled Attawa, will get him nowhere, and he knows it. :unsure:

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