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What can the West do to help Iranians?

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1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

1. I guess there are no supply-siders left now that the evidence of the past 40 years is insurmountable that cutting taxes for the rich just feeds the wealth divide.

Most taxes are paid by the rich and the well-off. The poor pay nothing. Naturally any tax cut is going to disproportionately benefit the rich, and any cut in spending is going to disproportionately harm the poor since the rich make little or no use of social services.

That does not mean that tax cuts are always wrong. I certainly oppose them when running a deficit. The recent US tax cuts were nothing more than the Republicans whoring themselves to their rich donors.

1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

Now that 3 men in America (described as philanthropists!!!) have equal wealth to the bottom half of the US population and the middle class has collapsed into a large poor class so badly that we hear shocking statistics that 40% of Americans don't even have $400 in savings to cover small emergencies. If leveling the playing field is "stealing" from the rich, that only tells us the rich have already stolen wealth from others by using the system they've designed and rigged to favor them and favor investment income over earned income.

The problem is that income is not taxed equally. Income which comes from working is taxed at a considerably higher rate than income derived from investments. This was presented as a way for workers to earn more money to build up a pension, and as far as it goes that's true. The problem is there are no limitations. Those making high amounts from dividends and capital gains should be taxed at increasingly large percentages. And that is not being done. Some wealthy people make many millions a year from dividends and pay a very low rate of  tax on that. That should end. Other tax measures which allow the wealthy to shield income should also be done away with.

1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

2. America loses its moral right to the "secure border" they talk about endlessly when they send in CIA, NGO's and State Dept. reps to destabilize governments in Latin America, Africa and Asia! 

Every democratic has a moral right to a secure border. Where I question that right is where a small group of ruthless men hold control through force of arms and terror. Those are governments which deserve to be destabilized. And those are governments which have no moral right to claim their borders are sacrosanct.

1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

Where was the Republicans and the big money Right in the US, when Hondurans started fleeing their country and making up the majority of migrants into Mexico trying to cross the US border after the Hillary Coup in 2009?

Hurricane Mitch was what destabilized Honduras, along with the growing strength of the drug cartels. The coup had nothing to do with Clinton. That's just conspiracy theory stuff. It was brought about because the president ignored repeated court rulings to not try to change the constitution to allow him to continue in office.

1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

Stop interfering and destroying other countries....regardless of whether they have elected governments, and there will be a lot fewer people attempting to migrate....because most people will not pick up and leave family behind for strange and hostile new lands unless they consider the places where they are unlivable!

Given the governance of most third world countries, they don't need help from the US to fall apart. Blaming everything on the West even without evidence is nothing more than reflexive anti-Western, anti-Capitalist fanaticism on the part of the far Left.

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Just now, Argus said:

 

Given the governance of most third world countries, they don't need help from the US to fall apart. Blaming everything on the West even without evidence is nothing more than reflexive anti-Western, anti-Capitalist fanaticism on the part of the far Left.

I agree with this to some extend. There are cases proven with documents revealed by CIA that the West interfered and badly screwed up a nation. Iran and Iranians is a CLEAR case of this. Recent revealed documents by CIA indicated how in a devious manner US fooled by the damned devious British Churchill (God damn his soul, may he rest in hell) in 1953 staged a military coup ordered by US president Eisenhower (God damn his soul may b he rest in hell)  and toppled the democratically elected government of Dr. Mossadegh. Iran nation was really screwed up by that action and ever since is under dictatorship and many Iranians have died as a result.

The 1953 military coup led to 1979 revolution which brought death and destruction to Iran and Iranians and still does. The problems the whole world is having now from this regime including the US and Europe are the fault of the US and the British. Islamic regime is their creation. The US and British are morally and legally responsible for this and now they have the obligation to help this nation to rid of this self imposed regime by any possible means.

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2 hours ago, kactus said:

 

I do agree with you that change there will have to be initiated by people. If the West sticks its nose out of Iran’s affairs by cosying up to the mullahs this can facilitate the right environment for change and for people to revolt. I don’t see that happening though given the past history. 

I agree with you that this is the ideal way for change. That change best come from within by the Iran nation however, because of the ultra repressive nature of the regime this may not be possible. They suppress every single movement by lethal force. They have thousands of paid thugs to murder people at will. People's revolution against the islamic regime has been put down in the most violent manner again and again and again. People alone without outside help are facing armed thugs and murderous regime. They cannot do it alone. Or if they can eventuality it may take too long. Generations until apes (mullahs) evolve into humans. The country may be destroyed long before that, As we speak minorities are restless. They have suffered real bad under islamic regime and want nothing to do within a federation. People like Kurds and arabs now may wish a separation after 2500 years of common history and this may extend to other minorities too. Not to mention that the majority Persians are now fed up too and may have to resort to armed struggle and civil war and scenarios i don't even  wish to think about.

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9 hours ago, Argus said:

Most taxes are paid by the rich and the well-off. The poor pay nothing. Naturally any tax cut is going to disproportionately benefit the rich, and any cut in spending is going to disproportionately harm the poor since the rich make little or no use of social services.

NO, the rich are not paying most of the taxes!  And you need to break down what taxes you're talking about here. Because most of the rich earn the bulk of their money from investment/not earned income!  

 The richest 1% pay an effective federal income tax rate of 24.7% in 2014; someone making an average of $75,000 is paying a 19.7% rate.

Speaking from the pov of someone earning about 85000 Cdn per year, I'm not poor, but neither do I have more money than I can possibly spend.....like the top 1%. When we're talking billionaires and at least one possible trillionaire in the next 15 years at current projections,  I have to ask: what the hell is it all for? Is it about buying political power? Are you going to fund your own space stations in orbit or a base on Mars to live in after your money-making businesses have destroyed life on Earth? Do you plan to take it with you when you die?  At some point, the endless quest to earn more profits is either an addiction or a sign of psychotic behaviour.....or both!

And it needs to be pointed out that the poor have to pay those flat taxes (sales taxes, service charges etc.) that exact the same burden from everyone regardless of income! If we're calculating ability to pay, the poor always have the greatest burden! Since they have to cut spending on necessities, including food and medicine, if they have too many things to pay for.

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The problem is that income is not taxed equally. Income which comes from working is taxed at a considerably higher rate than income derived from investments. This was presented as a way for workers to earn more money to build up a pension, and as far as it goes that's true.

Bingo! Now do you think that after reducing corporate tax rates and investment tax rates and all of the various loopholes that allow companies like Amazon to pay zero corporate taxes for the past three years, the oligarchs are just going to say: maybe we cut our tax burden too much and need to change the rules back to where they were before? Hell will freeze over first!  They will not make any concessions without fear that the working class will rise up and take their toys away.     

Quote

Hurricane Mitch was what destabilized Honduras, along with the growing strength of the drug cartels. The coup had nothing to do with Clinton. That's just conspiracy theory stuff. It was brought about because the president ignored repeated court rulings to not try to change the constitution to allow him to continue in office.

No,  if Mitch played a role in replacing the elected government in Honduras with a drug-dealing general approved by the CIA, it came from the State Dept. and specifically from Hillary Clinton herself!  Even Democrat media has to be honest about her first foreign policy disaster under the Obama Administration: 

Did Secretary of State Hillary Clinton Enable the Coup in Honduras?

02/19/2016 10:58 am ET Updated Feb 19, 2017

On June 28, 2009, when Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State, democratically elected Honduran President Manuel Zelaya was overthrown by a military coup. The United Nations, the European Union, and the Organization of American States condemned the coup, and on July 5, Honduras was suspended from the OAS.

Under longstanding and clear-cut U.S. law, all U.S. aid to Honduras except democracy assistance, including all military aid, should have been immediately suspended following the coup.

On August 7, fifteen House Democrats, led by Rep. Raúl Grijalva, sent a letter to the Administration which began, “As you know, on June 28th, 2009 a military coup took place in Honduras,” and said: “The State Department should fully acknowledge that a military coup has taken place and follow through with the total suspension of non-humanitarian aid, as required by law.”

Why wasn’t U.S. aid to Honduras suspended following the coup? The justification given by Clinton’s State Department on August 25 for not suspending U.S. aid to Honduras was that events in Honduras were murky and it was not clear whether a coup had taken place. Clinton’s State Department claimed that State Department lawyers were studying the murky question of whether a coup had taken place.

This justification was a lie, and Clinton’s State Department knew it was a lie. By July 24, 2009, the State Department, including Secretary Clinton, knew clearly that the action of the Honduran military to remove President Zelaya on June 28, 2009 constituted a coup. On July 24, U.S. Ambassador to Honduras Hugo Llorens sent a cable to top U.S. officials, including Secretary of State Clinton, with subject: “Open and Shut: The Case of the Honduran Coup,” thoroughly documenting the assertion that “there is no doubt” that the events of June 28 “constituted an illegal and unconstitutional coup.”

Why did Clinton’s State Department lie and pretend that it was murky whether a coup had taken place when it knew the fact that a coup had taken place was clear-cut? Because Hillary Clinton wanted the coup to succeed. Clinton’s strategy to help the coup succeed, as revealed in her emails, was “delay, delay, delay,” as Donald Trump might say. Delay any action that might help force the coup government to stand down and allow the democratically elected President to be restored to office. As she later confessed in her book, her goal was to “render the question of [President] Zelaya moot.”

Today, the rule of law in Honduras still has not recovered from the coup that Secretary Clinton helped enable. That’s a key reason that refugees have fled Honduras to the United States, only to find themselves hunted by the Department of Homeland Security raids that Secretary Clinton supported before she opposed them.

 

Edited by Right To Left
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7 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I agree with this to some extend. There are cases proven with documents revealed by CIA that the West interfered and badly screwed up a nation. Iran and Iranians is a CLEAR case of this. Recent revealed documents by CIA indicated how in a devious manner US fooled by the damned devious British Churchill (God damn his soul, may he rest in hell) in 1953 staged a military coup ordered by US president Eisenhower (God damn his soul may b he rest in hell)  and toppled the democratically elected government of Dr. Mossadegh. Iran nation was really screwed up by that action and ever since is under dictatorship and many Iranians have died as a result.

The 1953 military coup led to 1979 revolution which brought death and destruction to Iran and Iranians and still does. The problems the whole world is having now from this regime including the US and Europe are the fault of the US and the British. Islamic regime is their creation. The US and British are morally and legally responsible for this and now they have the obligation to help this nation to rid of this self imposed regime by any possible means.

Compared to most US presidents, Ike was one of the few.....maybe the only one who had the gravitas and the inside knowledge to stand up to what he later termed - The Military-Industrial Complex. He was worried about the growing power and the corruption involved in expanding Pentagon departments and making arms production a permanent fixture in US manufacturing.....rather than a sideline industry mostly for wartime. 

Regarding Iran, Eisenhower was trying to be pragmatic, since the US still needed the much weakened Great Britain as a military ally, and that was jeopardized after Mossadegh was elected and nationalized the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company....later called BP. Iran was the only source of oil that England had left, and if they couldn't switch from coal, then they were done as a naval power in the post-war era. Doesn't justify changing Iran's government so England could keep extracting cheap oil, but by 1953, Churchill didn't have any clout to bargain with. 

Worth noting, the US has engineered many other coups since the end of WWII also:

Instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government) And this list by William Blum was compiled in 2013....and there have been many more coups to add to in the last 6 years:

China 1949 to early 1960s

Albania 1949-53

East Germany 1950s

Iran 1953 *

Guatemala 1954 *

Costa Rica mid-1950s

Syria 1956-7

Egypt 1957

Indonesia 1957-8

British Guiana 1953-64 *

Iraq 1963 *

North Vietnam 1945-73

Cambodia 1955-70 *

Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *

Ecuador 1960-63 *

Congo 1960 *

France 1965

Brazil 1962-64 *

Dominican Republic 1963 *

Cuba 1959 to present

Bolivia 1964 *

Indonesia 1965 *

Ghana 1966 *

Chile 1964-73 *

Greece 1967 *

Costa Rica 1970-71

Bolivia 1971 *

Australia 1973-75 *

Angola 1975, 1980s

Zaire 1975

Portugal 1974-76 *

Jamaica 1976-80 *

Seychelles 1979-81

Chad 1981-82 *

Grenada 1983 *

South Yemen 1982-84

Suriname 1982-84

Fiji 1987 *

Libya 1980s

Nicaragua 1981-90 *

Panama 1989 *

Bulgaria 1990 *

Albania 1991 *

Iraq 1991

Afghanistan 1980s *

Somalia 1993

Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *

Ecuador 2000 *

Afghanistan 2001 *

Venezuela 2002 *

Iraq 2003 *

Haiti 2004 *

Somalia 2007 to present

Libya 2011*

Syria 2012

Q: Why will there never be a coup d’état in Washington?

A: Because there’s no American embassy there.

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World must strongly condemn use of lethal force by Iran islamic regime against protesters as death toll rises to 143

The occupying islamic regime has declared war on defenseless Iran nation by commuting the most horrifying atrocities against its citizens and the world remains silent. 

The international community must denounce the intentional lethal use of force by Iranian security forces that has resulted in the killings of at least 143 protesters since demonstrations broke out on 15 November, Amnesty International said today.

According to credible reports received by the organization, at least 143 people were killed. The deaths have resulted almost entirely from the use of firearms. One man was reported to have died after inhaling tear gas, another after being beaten. Amnesty International believes that the death toll is significantly higher and is continuing to investigate.

“The rising death toll is an alarming indication of just how ruthless the treatment of unarmed protesters has been by the Iranian authorities and reveals their appalling assault on human life,” said Philip Luther, Research and Advocacy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.

“The international community’s cautious and muted response to the unlawful killing of protesters is woefully inadequate. They must condemn these killings in the strongest possible terms and describe these events for what they are – the deadly and wholly unwarranted use of force to crush dissent,” said Philip Luther.

Horrific accounts from eyewitnesses and victims’ relatives on the ground, information gathered from human rights activists and journalists outside Iran and extensive video footage analysed by Amnesty International’s Digital Verification Corps provide clear evidence that Iranian security forces have been intentionally using firearms against unarmed protesters who posed no threat to life.

Verified videos show security forces deliberately shooting unarmed protesters from a short distance. In some cases, protesters were shot while they were running away and clearly posed no threat to the security forces. Other videos show security forces shooting towards protesters from rooftops of state buildings including a justice department building.

Security forces responsible for the crackdown include Iran’s police force, the Revolutionary Guards and plain-clothes agents from the Basij paramilitary force and others.

Amnesty International has received information indicating that, in many cases, the Iranian authorities have refused to return victims’ bodies to their families and, in some, security forces have removed dead bodies from morgues and transferred them to unknown locations.

In some cases, there are shocking reports that, when the authorities have returned victims’ bodies to their families, they have demanded payment citing several reasons, including the cost of the bullet that killed their loved one

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/11/iran-world-must-strongly-condemn-use-of-lethal-force-against-protesters-as-death-toll-rises-to-143/

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

World must strongly condemn use of lethal force by Iran islamic regime against protesters as death toll rises to 143

The occupying islamic regime has declared war on defenseless Iran nation by commuting the most horrifying atrocities against its citizens and the world remains silent. 

The international community must denounce the intentional lethal use of force by Iranian security forces that has resulted in the killings of at least 143 protesters since demonstrations broke out on 15 November, Amnesty International said today.

According to credible reports received by the organization, at least 143 people were killed. The deaths have resulted almost entirely from the use of firearms. One man was reported to have died after inhaling tear gas, another after being beaten. Amnesty International believes that the death toll is significantly higher and is continuing to investigate.

“The rising death toll is an alarming indication of just how ruthless the treatment of unarmed protesters has been by the Iranian authorities and reveals their appalling assault on human life,” said Philip Luther, Research and Advocacy Director for the Middle East and North Africa at Amnesty International.

“The international community’s cautious and muted response to the unlawful killing of protesters is woefully inadequate. They must condemn these killings in the strongest possible terms and describe these events for what they are – the deadly and wholly unwarranted use of force to crush dissent,” said Philip Luther.

Horrific accounts from eyewitnesses and victims’ relatives on the ground, information gathered from human rights activists and journalists outside Iran and extensive video footage analysed by Amnesty International’s Digital Verification Corps provide clear evidence that Iranian security forces have been intentionally using firearms against unarmed protesters who posed no threat to life.

Verified videos show security forces deliberately shooting unarmed protesters from a short distance. In some cases, protesters were shot while they were running away and clearly posed no threat to the security forces. Other videos show security forces shooting towards protesters from rooftops of state buildings including a justice department building.

Security forces responsible for the crackdown include Iran’s police force, the Revolutionary Guards and plain-clothes agents from the Basij paramilitary force and others.

Amnesty International has received information indicating that, in many cases, the Iranian authorities have refused to return victims’ bodies to their families and, in some, security forces have removed dead bodies from morgues and transferred them to unknown locations.

In some cases, there are shocking reports that, when the authorities have returned victims’ bodies to their families, they have demanded payment citing several reasons, including the cost of the bullet that killed their loved one

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/11/iran-world-must-strongly-condemn-use-of-lethal-force-against-protesters-as-death-toll-rises-to-143/

Aside from Hong Kong......for some reason, what ongoing uprisings where military and police forces are killing demonstrators, are being mentioned by Amnesty or the MSM? Last I heard, the death toll in Iraq demonstrations is higher than Iran. 

More modest killing zones like Chile and Bolivia (in the 20's or 30's so far) are only being followed by independent alternative media like The Grayzone

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Nowhere as violent as Iran especially in Hong Kong. Iraq's death toll also originates from Iran regime who has dominated/influenced iraqi government and affairs not Iraq but Western politicians are to stupid to see all the problems they are causing in the world and devise a decisive plan and form a united front to get rid of them for their own sake and while at it free Iran nation too. Btw, the post was about the world including the West strongly condemning Iran regime brutal actions against its own people (and the title of thread is what the West can do) so I don't understand how this was possibly a thread drift!!!!

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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Now the internet has been partially restored, videos have been appearing on social media that paint a picture of a government crackdown more brutal and bloodier than many had feared. The identities and stories of the protesters who lost their lives have also emerged.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50562584

What the West MUST do against such a brutal regime:

1 - Break off diplomatic relations with the regime in Iran and close their embassies.

2 - Cut off all trades with this brutal regime and cut the regime off totally of export of oil and non-oil products.

3 - Gather evidence against the criminals in various regime components and prosecute them in their absence for crime against humanity and freeze their assets.

4 - Send a strong message to the regime in Iran that all options including military options against the regime will be on table and likely if the regime does not change its behavior and continues to brutalize its citizens, the middle east and the world.

5 - Must form a united front and build a very strong military presence in Persian Gulf including aircraft carriers and submarines.

6 - Create an internet for Iran nation so that they will not be cut off from the world in the incoming uprisings.

7 - All Iran sports, Football/soccer in particular must be banned from all international competitions for as long as women are not allowed into Iranian stadiums and the regime forces its athletes against their will not to compete against Israelis.

The West stands for freedom and democracy. Therefore the West must not remain silent and indifferent witnessing such brutalities..

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Now the internet has been partially restored, videos have been appearing on social media that paint a picture of a government crackdown more brutal and bloodier than many had feared. The identities and stories of the protesters who lost their lives have also emerged.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50562584

What the West MUST do against such a brutal regime:

1 - Break off diplomatic relations with the regime in Iran and close their embassies.

U.S. and Canada have done this.

Europe has not.

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

2 - Cut off all trades with this brutal regime and cut the regime off totally of export of oil and non-oil products.

Pretty much there with the sanctions imposed by the U.S. Any company that does business with Iran could jeopardize their financial/trade relations with the U.S.

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

3 - Gather evidence against the criminals in various regime components and prosecute them in their absence for crime against humanity and freeze their assets.

Already done.

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

4 - Send a strong message to the regime in Iran that all options including military options against the regime will be on table and likely if the regime does not change its behavior and continues to brutalize its citizens, the middle east and the world.

Already done.

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

5 - Must form a united front and build a very strong military presence in Persian Gulf including aircraft carriers and submarines.

Already done. Iran is surrounded by American military bases.

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

6 - Create an internet for Iran nation so that they will not be cut off from the world in the incoming uprisings.

Agreed. The internet and flow of information is a key factor.

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

7 - All Iran sports, Football/soccer in particular must be banned from all international competitions for as long as women are not allowed into Iranian stadiums and the regime forces its athletes against their will not to compete against Israelis.

Half done. I thought they finally allowed Iranian women to attend soccer matches.

Not competing against Israel, another brutal state, is a good thing in my opinion.

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The West stands for freedom and democracy. Therefore the West must not remain silent and indifference witnessing such brutalities..

Europe needs to step up and give Iran an ultimatum, instead of sitting on the fence.

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6 hours ago, marcus said:

Not competing against Israel, another brutal state, is a good thing in my opinion.

 

Why is it a good thing? It shows lack of sportsmanship when Iranian authorities ban any competitor taking part in competing against an Israeli. 

I think it is absolutely ridiculous to ban Iranian athletes from competing against Israelis in any sport discipline and let the Iranian athlete forgo their title. Do you ever realise how many Iranians were banned from competition simply because their opponents were Israelis? I recently watched a cage fight between an Iranian and an Israeli where the Iranian guy was banned from future competitions despite his win. That is inhumane. He chose not to honour the government of Iran's policy of not fighting an Israeli. 

Whilst I may not agree with many Israelis governments policies I think it is totally unacceptable to mix politics with sport. It is worth noting that the domestic issues and recent protests in Iran speak volume about cracks widening in the foundations of the regime. If only puppet western governments (notably europeans) would forgo their financial interest with mullahs and support Iranian people....

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4 hours ago, marcus said:

U.S. and Canada have done this.

Europe has not.

Pretty much there with the sanctions imposed by the U.S. Any company that does business with Iran could jeopardize their financial/trade relations with the U.S.

Already done.

Already done.

Already done. Iran is surrounded by American military bases.

Agreed. The internet and flow of information is a key factor.

Half done. I thought they finally allowed Iranian women to attend soccer matches.

Not competing against Israel, another brutal state, is a good thing in my opinion.

Europe needs to step up and give Iran an ultimatum, instead of sitting on the fence.

US and Canada is not the whole Western world, Europe must stop trying to deal with the devil and so called hoping for the regime t be reformed, This regime has proven again and again that is non-reformable and cannot be trusted. 

The regime is still exporting 500,000 barrels of oil a day that is billions of dollars every year the money for which does not go to Iranian people but the regime and its thugs. All other trades must cease too even if a total naval blockade is needed to do so.

Not already done Not already done, Not already done, not even close to what is needed to be done, partially done but full implementations for all items you say already done.

Much stronger military presence is needed.

No women still not allowed in stadiums. It was only ONE match they allowed a very small selected crowd of women in. Half the population is women and half the stadiums (whoever wants to go) must be women. And for ALL matches. To compete against Israeli athletes must be up to Iranian athletes not the regime to force them to withdraw. And I am sure most if not all would compete. Iranians have no quarrel with Israel or Israelis but the regime needs to create enemies in order to survive, It feeds on hate like Hitler and Nazi Germany did. Israel never invaded Iran but Israel enemies (Arabs) did, TWICE.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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4 hours ago, kactus said:

Why is it a good thing? It shows lack of sportsmanship when Iranian authorities ban any competitor taking part in competing against an Israeli. 

It took me a while to come to this conclusion but after seeing Israel refusing all pressures to follow international law and human rights laws for so long, I believe boycotting Israel in cultural and athletic activity is an integral part of the BDS movement, just like it was against Apartheid South Africa. Often, Israel tries to use sports as a way to brand itself and to sweep its actions against the Palestinians. 

Here is a link to some other BDS activities regarding sports.

I believe the same pressure should be used against Iran if it wants to continue to violate international and human rights laws. If we're going to put financial sanctions, why stop at sports?

Edited by marcus

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On 11/20/2019 at 10:28 PM, Right To Left said:

How about if we improve freedom here by demanding an end to the internet monopolies: Google, Facebook, and Twitter, which have taken it upon themselves to "protect us" from "fake" news! 

If these services cannot function effectively if broken up into smaller, competing companies, then the monopolies should be public and have a board of governors which have to publish clear reasons why a user should be banned or have their accounts suspended. AND 'shadow-banning' and all of the bullshit games being played to push down certain sources in searches or removing pages without notice or stated reason (Facebook) should be considered unjustified interference with the free flow of information. 

And let's have sanctions over here against our corrupt government officials....some of them identified as Wikileaks published cables and emails delivered to them by whistleblowers tired of the corruption in their workplaces. 

And after we fix our corrupt corporate-serving government officials and guarantee our access to trustworthy information, then we can focus more attention on helping the Iranians!

The globalists that owned pretty much all of the print media news outlets in the world, and who were doing okay, lost control of the news when the internet came along. Then the news that they were able to control from we the people was now being exposed on the internet for all to see. The internet was exposing too much for the globalists to handle or try to control, and which they despised, so something had to be done about it. Social media sites like Youtube, Facebook, twitter and google and others were then created by the globalists to control the news. Millions now use those social media sites, and all are being watched as to what they say and recorded. No privacy anymore with those globalists watching what you say. 

The globalists pretty much now have control of most of the news information that goes on with their control of social media. The MSM is pretty much all controlled by them also. FOX News not being one of them, and a few others out there. The international globalists all work together now to try to keep we the people from the possibility that we might learn something that they do not want us to know or learn. They have become pretty much like communist censors. If they do not like your personal views or opinions that are opposite to their beliefs and opinions then one may get or already has been banned. The only one that appears to be trying to take on these globalist oligarchy internet social media censors is Donald Trump who has had his on problems with twitter, and Trump is the President of the USA. Unbelievable. It seems like if someone is a conservative with conservative opinions and points of view they do tend to get the banned treatment. Trying to fix our corporate government officials is indeed a big task to try and do. There are just too many traitors out there against we the people that one could ever imagine. Their aim is global control of everything, and too have and take control over we the people, and too just make us their own personal slaves. They truly do despise we the people. Sad indeed.

Iran was once a some what of a free country at one time even if it were ruled by the Shah of Iran. The people went and got rid of the Shah dictator and replaced him with another more worse dictator. It just seems that no matter what we the people try to do to get rid of dictators and corruption in our governments, we seem to never get anywhere. I guess that the globalist international bankers do have one hell of a control over our politicians, and our governments, and of course the MSM. Only Jesus Christ may be able to save the world. But I doubt that he is ever coming back. No one ever comes back after they have died and departed from earth. Just saying. 

Edited by taxme

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3 hours ago, marcus said:

It took me a while to come to this conclusion but after seeing Israel refusing all pressures to follow international law and human rights laws for so long, I believe boycotting Israel in cultural and athletic activity is an integral part of the BDS movement, just like it was against Apartheid South Africa. Often, Israel tries to use sports as a way to brand itself and to sweep its actions against the Palestinians. 

Look who their neighbors are and who their haters are. They shoot their own people in the back for peaceful protest. What do you think they would do to Israelis if they capture Israeli towns and cities.  As inhuman Israeli actions may be and I have criticize their actions many times against defenseless women and children, one looking at both sides of the conflict may see it as self defense.

What would you do if you see very violent revengeful hateful gangsters or gang of people trying to enter your home (which may or may not belong to you resembling Israeli case) and wanting to massacre (and possibly much worse that I cannot say in details) you and your immediate family and you are armed. Will you defend yourself with full force or instead behave humane? I would do the former myself and defend my family with everything that I got throw at them to save my family and myself.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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4 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Look who their neighbors are and who their haters are. They shoot their own people in the back for peaceful protest. What do you think they would do to Israelis if they capture Israeli towns and cities.  As inhuman Israeli actions may be and I have criticize their actions many times against defenseless women and children, one looking at both sides of the conflict may see it as self defense.

Who are you talking about when you say "neighbours"? The Palestinians? The Jordanians? The Egyptians? The Lebanese? 

I don't see it as self-defense. Nothing about Israel's actions can be justified. To me, you're just falling for the bs talking points propagated by the Hasbara in order to manufacture consent of people.

4 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

What would you do if you see very violent revengeful hateful gangsters or gang of people trying to enter your home (which may or may not belong to you resembling Israeli case) and wanting to massacre (and possibly much worse that I cannot say in details) you and your immediate family and you are armed. Will you defend yourself with full force or instead behave humane? I would do the former myself and defend my family with everything that I got throw at them to save my family and myself.

Ask a Palestinian this question. Because they have been living under the conditions imposed on them by the Israeli gangsters.

Anyway, take this into the other thread. 

 

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Europeans (Norway this time) continue to prostitute themselves to the mullahs' regime.

https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/US-ambassador-slams-Norway-for-praising-bypass-of-Iran-sanctions-609442

Good fr USA for slamming Norway's ambassador for  supporting criminals.

In response the US ambassador  to Germany said:

“Terrible timing - why fund the Iranian regime while its killing the Iranian people and shutting off the internet? You should be standing for human rights not funding the abusers,” tweeted Grenell, the most high-profile US ambassador in Europe.

Belgium, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, and Sweden joined on Friday the United Kingdom, France in Germany as partners in INSTEX.

Shame on Europe who speak and stand for democracy but sleep with these regimes. Prostitutes have more integrity than these European leaders. At least they choose who they sleep with.

 

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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Shocking videos from Iran emerging smuggled out recently.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/02/opinion/iran-internet-shutdown.html#commentsContainer

The West cannot stay silent anymore. Any country who trades with Iran regime will make the leaders of those countries a party to bloodshed in Iran.

European and Russian leaders may be hold accountable for the deaths and brutality against Iranian people and maybe prosecuted in international courts by post revolutionary Iran's legitimately elected government.

Iran regime must be completely blocked from exporting a drop of oil and if that means complete naval blockade of the regime then let it be. 

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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There are the videos posted to social media and aggregated by news sites that show security forces firing on demonstrators. There are statements from leading Iranian opposition figures such as Mir Hossein Mousavi, one of the leaders of the 2009 uprising who has been under house arrest since 2011. There are headlines reading, “With Brutal Crackdown, Iran Is Convulsed by Worst Unrest in 40 Years.” There is the report from Amnesty International saying that at least 208 people have been killed.

So it’s puzzling that America’s European allies chose last weekend to announce that six more countries are joining a bartering system, known as Instex, designed to evade the U.S. sanctions on Iranian oil. Belgium, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden announced Saturday they were joining France, Germany and the U.K..

“Do they think we don’t see what is happening in Iran?” asked Alireza Nader, a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies who is closely tracking the unrest. “To push Instex at this moment reveals a remarkable lack of attention to human rights. I hope they come to their senses.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-12-02/iran-protests-why-is-europe-bailing-out-the-ruling-regime-now

Perhaps Europeans believe the supreme leader has more staying power than the shah did. But if history is any guide, Iranians will not soon forget the violence and torment their regime has inflicted on them. Nor will they forget those foreign powers that offered that regime an economic lifeline.

By extending the lifeline of this murderous regime European leaders are directly responsible for any future bloodshed by this regime. Their hands will be stained with the blood of innocent defenseless people. The future leaders of Iran may see it fit to put these European leaders (current leaders of Belgium, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and Sweden, France, Germany and the U.K.) on trial in international courts for participating in mass murder of defenseless people.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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Trump administration may help Iranian people to liberate themselves and their country.

 

Aides to President Donald Trump are weighing imposing new sanctions on Iranian officials implicated in human rights abuses, relying in part on intelligence gleaned from some 36,000 pictures, videos and other tips sent in by Iranians caught up in the regime’s recent crackdown on mass protests.

The Trump administration is also exploring new ways to help Iranians evade internet blackouts imposed by the regime in Tehran, people familiar with the plans said. It further is expected to dial up its own information campaign against Iran in the coming days, including a potential speech on Iran by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

“The United States of America supports the brave people of Iran who are protesting for their FREEDOM. We have under the Trump Administration, and always will!” the U.S. president tweeted Tuesday from London, where he’s attending a NATO gathering.

Iran nation will forgive the United States for its cowardly staged military coup in 1953 which toppled the democratically elected government of Dr. Mossadegh if now the US help Iranians enough to topple this bloodthirsty murderous regime which is destroying them and their homeland.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/03/donald-trump-sanctions-iran-074961

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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