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Social Assistance/ODSP

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3 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

So that means, every citizen gets free money from the government, even if they don't work?

Yes. 

And it saves a lot of public money. 

People naturally move in/out of the workforce for a variety of sensible reasons (as outlined above, and I would add education/retraining). The bureaucratic costs are huge for  determining eligibility and administering funding for income support in each of those cases. A lot of people fall through the cracks and end up on the streets or seriously ill, again increasing our social costs. It's a cost saving program that results in better employment outcomes, because people are able to maintain themselves through adverse circumstances and thus motivated and strong enough to move forward. 

EG Someone who is schizophrenic and in crisis and loses their job ... or a husband whose wife has Alzheimer's and needs constant care so he has to leave his job ... such people dealing with crisis often do not have the strength to find their way through the bureaucratic hodge podge of current social support programs. Such crises too often result in people losing everything, including their homes and their strength to get back on their feet. 

These are not unexpected circumstances: They are predictable and happening to thousands of people at any given time. A guaranteed income saves a lot of public money by preventing crisis situations from becoming catastrophic situations, by enabling recovery and reemployment. 

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44 minutes ago, jacee said:

Yes. 

And it saves a lot of public money. 

People naturally move in/out of the workforce for a variety of sensible reasons (as outlined above, and I would add education/retraining). The bureaucratic costs are huge for  determining eligibility and administering funding for income support in each of those cases. A lot of people fall through the cracks and end up on the streets or seriously ill, again increasing our social costs. It's a cost saving program that results in better employment outcomes, because people are able to maintain themselves through adverse circumstances and thus motivated and strong enough to move forward. 

EG Someone who is schizophrenic and in crisis and loses their job ... or a husband whose wife has Alzheimer's and needs constant care so he has to leave his job ... such people dealing with crisis often do not have the strength to find their way through the bureaucratic hodge podge of current social support programs. Such crises too often result in people losing everything, including their homes and their strength to get back on their feet. 

These are not unexpected circumstances: They are predictable and happening to thousands of people at any given time. A guaranteed income saves a lot of public money by preventing crisis situations from becoming catastrophic situations, by enabling recovery and reemployment. 

In the old days, the people who didn't work staved to death. Now we just borrow billions from China. If we stop paying the interest, they will have the excuse to invade us.

Edited by ProudConservative

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2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Says you, with 12,250 posts on this forum, all of them full of your self righteousness, declaiming people for being "White Supremacists!"

I don't mean to insult you btw, it was meant to point out the hypocrisy in your posts.

Government safety net refers to a net.  The net is to catch people who are falling because of bad times and help them get back on their feet.  Employment insurance is an example.

My position is that some people, even with anxiety, may need that helping hand. There should be more safeguards to prevent abuse and longterm dependency when people may be capable or some kind of work.  As I said, we need to balance compassion with personal responsibility.  There's no doubt a lot of people need a kick in the butt to get off their lazy asses while collecting on the public dime.

If you're able to work but refuse, I don't feel bad if you starve to death.  If you can only work 15 hours a week and starve, yeah i feel bad.

Edited by Moonlight Graham

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3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I don't mean to insult you btw, it was meant to point out the hypocrisy in your posts.

How so ?   I live my principles,  where am I a hypocrite ?

Edited by Dougie93

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26 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

In the old days, the people who didn't work staved to death.

In the old days children got rickets and witches were burned at the stake. Is there anything else you'd like to go back to? The suppression of science by the church maybe? Taking mercury to heal syphillus perhaps?

Is all progress a curse in your eyes?

Edited by Iceni warrior
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13 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I don't mean to insult you btw, it was meant to point out the hypocrisy in your posts.

Government safety net refers to a net.  The net is to catch people who are falling because of bad times and help them get back on their feet.  Employment insurance is an example.

My position is that some people, even with anxiety, may need that helping hand. There should be more safeguards to prevent abuse and longterm dependency when people may be capable or some kind of work.  As I said, we need to balance compassion with personal responsibility.  There's no doubt a lot of people need a kick in the butt to get off their lazy asses while collecting on the public dime.

If you're able to work but refuse, I don't feel bad if you starve to death.  If you can only work 15 hours a week and starve, yeah i feel bad.

Why can't we make work the social safety net. Whatever we were going to give them in welfare, have them help out with public landscaping projects, or do anything they're capable of?

It's rediculous that the government pays people to do absolutly nothing.

My issue is forcing people with mental illness to hand in rusume with a 1% chance of landing a job at $14 an hour.... There should be guarenteed work for everyone, and I don't care if it's $3 an hour... Make everyone work. Disabled people should be forced to work, even if they have to slow down.

Edited by ProudConservative

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When Mike Harris was around, the minimum wage was $6.85. If you adjusted for Inflation Ontario should have a $9 minimum wage and not $14... That was Kathleen Wynne's fault, and it's having detrimental consequeneces. 

Edited by ProudConservative

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26 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If you're able to work but refuse, I don't feel bad if you starve to death.  If you can only work 15 hours a week and starve, yeah i feel bad.

If you starve in Canada, I don't feel bad, because that must me self inflicted

There are exponential ways to get food in Canada, there's a soup kitchen at the church down the road here.

Seems like you're just prattling ginned up sob stories to justify government intervention without restraint nor accountability.

Starved to death in Canada?  Get real already.

This is what Canadians do,  every Canadian has a sob story, and the reason is they are all looking for handouts from the government, who knew?

Edited by Dougie93

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9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

If you starve in Canada, I don't feel bad, because that must me self inflicted, there are exponentially ways to get food in Canada, there's a soup kitchen at the church down the road.

 

I once met a homeless person, who told me off, because I didn't hand him a dollar. So I asked him, how much did you make begging today? He told me around $30. So i'm like how on earth can you go hungry with $30? He said he went to McDonalds and to the Liqour store. I told him. You can take $20, and go buy a 10KG of rice... It should last you a month.

Then he was like, well... Then i'll have too cook it, so i'm like go make a fire under a bridge, and go cook it.

I've gone camping on $25 groceries for a week. Just go to dollarama, and buy some 50 cent Mac and Cheeze. Went to no frils and bought some Apples, Carrots, and Potatoes.

You can get a dozen eggs for $2.... Starving is for fools.

Edited by ProudConservative

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Just now, ProudConservative said:

I once met a homeless person, who told me off, because I didn't hand him a dollar.

I don't carry cash, but I do give them cigarettes.

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2 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

If it's a homeless woman and a child, i'll help them... The alcoholics get no sympathy from me.

Alcoholics get sympathy from me, but when it comes to money, I refuse to give anymore through the government than what the government already takes from me by force.

Instead, I give money to and volunteer at my local church, where we run programs to assist the needy.

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Just now, Dougie93 said:

Alcoholics get sympathy from me, but when it comes to money, I refuse to give anymore through the government than what the government already takes from me by force.

Instead, I give money to and volunteer at my local church, where we run programs to assist the needy.

Do you ever listen to "Dave Ramsey"?

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1 minute ago, ProudConservative said:

I just like hearing him teach financial logical to SJW's.

You can't really teach people to be wealthy,  I simply won the life lottery, good things happen to me, praise the Lord.

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Again, I have plenty of time for the downtrodden, but not those who wallow in self pity, and I simply will not voluntarily assist anyone by way of the government.

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2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Again, I have plenty of time for the downtrodden, but not those who wallow in self pity, and I simply will not voluntarily assist anyone by way of the government.

My biggest beef is irresponsible parents. Sometimes it feels like you have to discipline the parents more than you have to discipline the kids. I just had a huge issue with my cousin, bragging how his Son got into U of T..... 

I said you should keep an eye on him... Don't let your guard down, because 18 year old's can easily get distracted.

He taps me on the shoulder and laughs at me.... He said...  My son is paying to go to University. I don't think he someone who pays to go to University will make any poor choices.

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