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Social Assistance/ODSP

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1 minute ago, ProudConservative said:

My biggest beef is irresponsible parents.

That's none of my business.  I am not a parent, so I don't interact with them much.

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I don't have beefs for the most part, I don't have any complaints, my life is great, I enjoy it

I simply have no time for self pitying sob stories for the purposes of getting handouts from the government.

Come to my church, I will feed you, I will clothe you, I will give you shelter.

If you are want to go begging to the government, I won't help you.

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16 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

In the old days, the people who didn't work staved to death. 

And that's the type of society you think is preferable? Really? 

We're talking about normal life circumstances, interruptions in earnings, that occur to many people. This is a means for saving money that's already being spent, costs associated with human breakdowns. 

Perhaps you can think of it like your vehicle: You invest in oil changes, tuneups and other preventive maintenance so it lasts longer, uses less fuel, etc - ie, it costs you a bit upfront, but saves you MORE money in the long run, preventing catastrophic breakdowns, etc. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

Why can't we make work the social safety net. Whatever we were going to give them in welfare, have them help out with public landscaping projects, or do anything they're capable of?

It's rediculous that the government pays people to do absolutly nothing.

My issue is forcing people with mental illness to hand in rusume with a 1% chance of landing a job at $14 an hour.... There should be guarenteed work for everyone, and I don't care if it's $3 an hour... Make everyone work. Disabled people should be forced to work, even if they have to slow down.

I agree 100%.  Work also gives people dignity, a reason to wake up in the morning.  If they can wipe their own ass and feed themselves I'm sure they have something they can contribute.

If Stephen Hawking can contribute value to society through work, anyone can.

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6 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I agree 100%.  Work also gives people dignity, a reason to wake up in the morning.  If they can wipe their own ass and feed themselves I'm sure they have something they can contribute.

If Stephen Hawking can contribute value to society through work, anyone can.

I'm glad to see some of my ideas, seem popular on this forum.

I don't see too many conservatives objecting too creating jobs as a social safety net for the disabled. This is where would should be putting our tax dollars, instead of wasting it on a bloated bureaucracy.

If you put people to work, you don't have to spend billions on prisons when they end up having psycological meltdowns. You don't have to spend millions on rehab facilities to treat drug addicts.

Edited by ProudConservative

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Another thing to consider is with the soon to be, 400 000 imigrants coming to Canada. How on earth will people on the fringe compete with the 14$ an hour minimum wage? Instead of having 15 people lined up for job interviews, they will have 25.... At some point will start too see a sharp increase in youth suicides.

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11 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

If their excuse for not working is that they have "anxiety", then they are scamming us. 

 

Next some Canadians will want to have the government send them a monthly paycheque just for being alive and living in Canada. Come to think of it, we already do that for the many legal and criminal illegal refugees that have come to Canada. Hey, we are here, give us money. It works for them too. I wonder as to how the founders of this country did it when there was no government assistance to hand out any money to people who did or would not work way back when? Sure, there may be some good reasons today for handing out some taxpayer's tax dollars to people who are in real need of those tax dollars, but there are just too many who are getting tax dollars for free who have no problems. The governments of today in Canada seem to feel that if someone needs or wants some free tax dollars, then just ask for it and we will give it to you, no questions or strings attached. I think that all of this PSTD stuff is not as real as the government makes it out to be. It's probably being used by some to try and scam the government(taxpayer's) to try and get some free tax dollars. If someone is working on some job and they are starting to feel some kind of anxiety or PTSD on the job, well then, quit the job. Why keep working on a job that is driving you mental? Just saying. 

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5 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

I have a problem with the government paying people not to work... Can they at least create jobs for these people... even if they have to pay them... exactly the same as they would get being on welfare. 

I don't know what welfare works out too... My guess is around $7 an hour... Why can't we force them to work 1 hour, for every $7 they collect?

If they're extreamly disabled, than creat the most cushy job on the planet for them... have them monitor security cameras... or something, and press a red button... every time they see something unusual.

My biggest problem with welfare isn't the taxpayer being ripped off. It's that you make people feel like a drain on society... You compeltly rob them of their dignity.

You miss the point.

Very few people collect welfare long term. For most it is shorter term, for total breakdown in income, and you can't live long on welfare, can't pay rent utilities plus food. Then you're on the street.

Disability may be short term or long term.

EI is limited term.

Student grant's and loans - medium term.

Caring for a sick or debilitated relative ... short-medium-long term.

OAS/GIS longer term for seniors.

With guaranteed annual income  we're just talking about bridging all those gaps, maintaining stability in housing and saving costs in the long term. 

If you really understand how much money we spend in staffing, evaluating people's circumstances and processing them on and off benefits, and in hospital, shelter, housing, food banks, homelessness, policing ... it is cheaper and healthier in the long run to provide a guaranteed annual living income to everyone.

Edited by jacee

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7 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

Why can't we make work the social safety net. Whatever we were going to give them in welfare, have them help out with public landscaping projects, or do anything they're capable of?

It's rediculous that the government pays people to do absolutly nothing.

My issue is forcing people with mental illness to hand in rusume with a 1% chance of landing a job at $14 an hour.... There should be guarenteed work for everyone, and I don't care if it's $3 an hour... Make everyone work. Disabled people should be forced to work, even if they have to slow down.

You can't force people to work for $3/hr.

No one can live on that. 

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5 hours ago, jacee said:

You can't force people to work for $3/hr.

No one can live on that. 

If you go to Costa Rica... I've meet several people who only make $3... Now how are they able to work, and not starve to death, when the price of food is almost double.... what it is in Ontario, and many houses cost over $200 000?

I've seen cab drivers make $1 per hour profit in Latin America.

If they can survive, any person in Ontario can survive on $3 an hour.

You can buy dried beans in bulk for $1 a kilogram. Rice and Potatoes, Carrots. Apples, Banana's

All someone needs is $5 a day to eat healthy.

Actually if we abolished the minimum wage, I'm pretty sure China would nuke us... All the jobs would be shipped back to Canada. I'm joking, but China... would pull some strings, and not let that happen.

Even at $5 an hour, it cost more to ship made in china to Canada, than to use Canadian resources, and have our electronics manufactured in Canada.

You would start to see garmet factories returning to the small towns. Canadians use to make to make their own clothes in the 19th century.

If we got rid of minimum wage, you would see a jobs boom in Ontario that would Rival what's going on it Shenzhen, China. Every small town would have a bunch of factories... People would be working instead of taking drugs.

Edited by ProudConservative

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1 hour ago, ProudConservative said:

If you go to Costa Rica... I've meet several people who only make $3... Now how are they able to work, and not starve to death, when the price of food is almost double.... what it is in Ontario, and many houses cost over $200 000?

I've seen cab drivers make $1 per hour profit in Latin America.

If they can survive, any person in Ontario can survive on $3 an hour.

You can buy dried beans in bulk for $1 a kilogram. Rice and Potatoes, Carrots. Apples, Banana's

All someone needs is $5 a day to eat healthy.

Actually if we abolished the minimum wage, I'm pretty sure China would nuke us... All the jobs would be shipped back to Canada. I'm joking, but China... would pull some strings, and not let that happen.

Even at $5 an hour, it cost more to ship made in china to Canada, than to use Canadian resources, and have our electronics manufactured in Canada.

You would start to see garmet factories returning to the small towns. Canadians use to make to make their own clothes in the 19th century.

If we got rid of minimum wage, you would see a jobs boom in Ontario that would Rival what's going on it Shenzhen, China. Every small town would have a bunch of factories... People would be working instead of taking drugs.

You can't live on that. It's barbaric. You're an idiot.

It's only boom time for bosses. Workers would starve and be homeless.

Edited by jacee

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1 minute ago, jacee said:

You can't live on that. It's barbaric.

It's only boom time for bosses. Workers would starve and be homeless.

Well they would starve if they blow their money on takeout pizza, and subway. If we tought them how to make soup from dried beans, they would get along just fine.

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11 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

Well they would starve if they blow their money on takeout pizza, and subway. If we tought them how to make soup from dried beans, they would get along just fine.

You can't pay rent and eat on those slave wages.

You're an idiot. Grow up.

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15 minutes ago, jacee said:

You can't pay rent and eat on those slave wages.

You're an idiot. Grow up.

Sure you can... You get a bunk bed, and share the room. That's how it is in most countries. It's no different than being in the army, and having to share a barracks with 10 other guys.

What right do you have to tell unemployment people, that they can't negotiate their own wages, to get themselves work?

You should start listening to the conservative people. They have good ideas.

 

Edited by ProudConservative

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4 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

Sure you can... You get a bunk bed, and share the room. That's how it is in most countries. It's no different than being in the army, and having to share a barracks with 10 other guys.

What right do you have to tell unemployment people, that they can't negotiate their own wages, to get themselves work?

You should start listening to the conservative people. They have good ideas.

 

And your kids? 

Or were you thinking poverty wage only for single people? 

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1 hour ago, jacee said:

And your kids? 

Or were you thinking poverty wage only for single people? 

Well parents with teenaged kids... can pay for there food, and they get to live for free. Those parents should show appreciation, when a business hires there teenaged kids. Instead of being condescending and calling it "Slave Wages" It gives them work experience to put on their resume.

I'm sure the parents with adult children living in their basement, aren't too happy about the $14 minimum wage... Pricing their child out of a job. $14 an hour is a ridiculously high wage... If you don't believe me, go to your local walmart... and see all the self-pay checkout lines.

$3 an hour is better than permanent unemployment.

We should do away with the minimum wage, and let the market decide what's appropriate.

Edited by ProudConservative
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38 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

Well parents with teenaged kids... can pay for there food, and they get to live for free. Those parents should show appreciation, when a business hires there teenaged kids. Instead of being condescending and calling it "Slave Wages" It gives them work experience to put on their resume.

I'm sure the parents with adult children living in their basement, aren't too happy about the $14 minimum wage... Pricing their child out of a job. $14 an hour is a ridiculously high wage... If you don't believe me, go to your local walmart... and see all the self-pay checkout lines.

$3 an hour is better than permanent unemployment.

We should do away with the minimum wage, and let the market decide what's appropriate.

Yeah right, most working people know what "the market" will decide! Those of us who work in the last remaining union shops are the only workers left earning decent wages and benefits. Because 'the market' decided at the start of the age of neoliberalism to try to kick all of the profits up to the top and use the threats of outsourcing as blackmail to make wages fall further and further behind the real cost of living.  But, all we need to do is take a look at the brave new world being created by Jeff Bezos! The time and motion man's dream come true!

If you conservatives, and the more deceptive liberals doing the same shit, think that you can keep fooling working people forever with this pro-capitalist bullshit, you'll probably find out too late! The owners of highly profitable fast food and retail companies are invariably the last to "show appreciation!"

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19 hours ago, jacee said:

And that's the type of society you think is preferable? Really? 

We're talking about normal life circumstances, interruptions in earnings, that occur to many people. This is a means for saving money that's already being spent, costs associated with human breakdowns. 

Perhaps you can think of it like your vehicle: You invest in oil changes, tuneups and other preventive maintenance so it lasts longer, uses less fuel, etc - ie, it costs you a bit upfront, but saves you MORE money in the long run, preventing catastrophic breakdowns, etc. 

 

 

Conservative Queen - Margaret Thatcher declared 40 years ago right in the British Parliament: "there is no such thing as society!" And that sums up the radical individualist message of the new conservatism that arrived in the 70's and gave "free trade" a full embrace, as they tried to demolish all social institutions except for the mythologized family...that would exist as an oasis in the midst of the dog eat dog economies they've created. 

Most of these types of conservatives I know or have known, have built their success upon piles of inherited wealth and like the rich throughout history, are tone deaf to the suffering, concerns and misery they've helped to create around them. I'd like to believe that most of us....regardless of how or if we think our predicaments can be solved, are well aware that the numbers of homeless are growing each year in our cities. It doesn't seem to be quite as bad as the neoliberal paradises south of the border....yet, but we're heading in that direction, as more and more fall through the cracks and more and more are out panhandling on city streets and intersections.

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On 11/25/2019 at 11:09 AM, ProudConservative said:

Well parents with teenaged kids... can pay for there food, and they get to live for free. Those parents should show appreciation, when a business hires there teenaged kids. Instead of being condescending and calling it "Slave Wages" It gives them work experience to put on their resume.

I'm sure the parents with adult children living in their basement, aren't too happy about the $14 minimum wage... Pricing their child out of a job. $14 an hour is a ridiculously high wage... If you don't believe me, go to your local walmart... and see all the self-pay checkout lines.

$3 an hour is better than permanent unemployment.

We should do away with the minimum wage, and let the market decide what's appropriate.

What don't you understand about "You can't live on $3/hr"?

People would be homeless and eating out of dumpsters, with their kids. Then they would soon die. 

I suggest you try it yourself. Let us know how it goes. Lol 

If business owners can't pay people a wage that they can live on, they just aren't capable of running a business.

Thousands of businesses go bankrupt every year because of poor business plans and practices, and those lousy business people are always the ones whining for lower wages. 

Oh.Well.

 

Edited by jacee

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18 hours ago, jacee said:

What don't you understand about "You can't live on $3/hr"?

People would be homeless and eating out of dumpsters, with their kids. Then they would soon die. 

I suggest you try it yourself. Let us know how it goes. Lol 

If business owners can't pay people a wage that they can live on, they just aren't capable of running a business.

Thousands of businesses go bankrupt every year because of poor business plans and practices, and those lousy business people are always the ones whining for lower wages. 

Oh.Well.

 

Anyone could survive on $3 an hour... It's just that melenials have an entitlement complex. It's unfair to the homeless people who are priced out of a job, just because some greedy people want to be paid $14 an hour. It leads to a survival of the fitness mentality.. Where an employer will line 20 people up for a job interview... and try and figure out who can work like superman, so that business can survive at an artifically mandatet minimum wage.

In countries that do have $3 an hour wages... There're factories everywhere. 

You go to northern ontario... and their desterpate for work... The main thing keeping them afloat is the seasonal welfare. That just leads to more debt, and more taxes, because people arn't working.... Then the people feel like slackers, because they can't find work... and turn to drugs... which causes more crime... and we waste more money on prisons.

The next thing you know, our entire industrial base is gone... and China takes over the world... Which come to think about it, might to be a bad idea.

The minimum wage is selfish. Of course liberals like to be selfish. What else is new.

 

Edited by ProudConservative

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And lets create a budget for $3 an hour.

You work 6 days a week. 10 hour days. You earn $720 a month... Many people in African Countries only make $720 a year. They're skinny, but they arn't starving to dealth.

You can buy floor and make your own bread... you can buy dried beans and make your own soup. You can buy potatoes and make your own stew. You can buy rice... You can cook pasta.

All you need is $25 a week for food.

10 people can rent a $1500 a month house, and pay $150 a month in rent if they have too. They would just have to sleep in bunk beds.

That's not even half the budget for food and shelter.

$3 an hour would be the worse case scenario... and most of the people taking those jobs, would be people trying to build their resume. I imagine most businesses would pay at least $7.50 an hour, because it would be hard to attract workers if they pay less.

If we want to compete with China, we need to lower our minimum wage... or will never see consumer electronics made in Canada again.

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1 hour ago, ProudConservative said:

Anyone could survive on $3 an hour... It's just that melenials have an entitlement complex. It's unfair to the homeless people who are priced out of a job, just because some greedy people want to be paid $14 an hour. It leads to a survival of the fitness mentality.. Where an employer will line 20 people up for a job interview... and try and figure out who can work like superman, so that business can survive at an artifically mandatet minimum wage.

In countries that do have $3 an hour wages... There're factories everywhere. 

You go to northern ontario... and their desterpate for work... The main thing keeping them afloat is the seasonal welfare. That just leads to more debt, and more taxes, because people arn't working.... Then the people feel like slackers, because they can't find work... and turn to drugs... which causes more crime... and we waste more money on prisons.

The next thing you know, our entire industrial base is gone... and China takes over the world... Which come to think about it, might to be a bad idea.

The minimum wage is selfish. Of course liberals like to be selfish. What else is new.

 

Let me know how you make out paying for rent, food and transportation on $3/hr.  Lol 

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1 hour ago, jacee said:

Let me know how you make out paying for rent, food and transportation on $3/hr.  Lol 

Let me know how the homeless people are making out sleeping under bridges. $720 a month is better than nothing. By the way, if we eliminate minimum wage, the market would correct itself. Everything would get cheaper, but more manufacturing would happen in Ontario, and China would be in deep trouble.

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