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Nefarious Banana

Trudeau/Bill Blair . . . . gun control.

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Many of you may be aware of the Federal Liberal's new legislation/push to ban hand and long guns in the wake of the 30th anniversary of the Ecole Polytechnique massacre in Montreal. The dis-arming of lawful Canadian gun owners is an attempt to 'trigger' public alarm, and distract from the very real problems of a country coming apart.  Thoughts . . . . 

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They need to stop importing people from other countries who feel the need to join gangs and carry around handguns in the first place.  If you carry around a handgun in a big urban city you're clearly bad news.

Get to the root of the damn problem and keep the garbage out of Canada.  I was raised by responsible parents, I've never owned a handgun, I've never been in a gang.  My parents had their sh!t together.  If you don't have your sh!t together, you shouldn't be allowed to stay in this country.  I don't give 2 craps about your sob story if you can't behave properly, if you can't raise your children properly.

Time to call a spade a spade.

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Criminals will always have the upper hand then. They can make guns or buy them illegally.

The only people they will disarm is the law abiding good citizens.

I agree with Moonlight Graham....our gun problem lies with what's coming into Canada.

Toronto Police statistics show a 90% increase in people wounded by gunfire and a 48% increase in shootings (135 in 2015 compared to 91 in 2014). Meanwhile, there were 114 reported incidents of shootings without injuries as of July 15, compared to just 14 in 2014. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Toronto

'Before the latest significant increase in violence on our streets, the tipping point is actually the elephant in the room. The maligned, misunderstood, so-called police “carding” which was made out to be a race issue. Its demise has provided added protection for the criminal element.'

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-to-fight-gun-crime-start-with-the-elephant

Edited by Teena
Grammar
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12 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Many of you may be aware of the Federal Liberal's new legislation/push to ban hand and long guns in the wake of the 30th anniversary of the Ecole Polytechnique massacre in Montreal. The dis-arming of lawful Canadian gun owners is an attempt to 'trigger' public alarm, and distract from the very real problems of a country coming apart.  Thoughts . . . . 

?  Assault rifles I have no problem being banned but they are not the issue, hand guns are. I also don't think current gun control is a problem in Canada. In that sense calling for banning on assault rifles is a fake issue They are already illegal. Hand guns are a problem but most hand guns used in crimes can't be regulated. Regulations are not a panacea that can prevent certain crimes. Its nice to think a law or regulation can by itself stop something but they can't. We live next door to the largest source of hand guns in the world. How you  going to stop them from coming in? Please don't tell me a government that welcomes people  breaking the law to come across the border cares. This current government is selective on what laws it likes and does not like for political reasons. As such I have zero confidence in it.

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9 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Banning immigrants, banning guns, delusional social panic sweeping across the failed state.

Who is banning immigrants? If you are referring to illegal Nigerians walking across the border from the US they are not being banned. They get to stay up to 3 years in hotels waiting for refugee hearings. Please spare me the pollyanna comments. Delusional panic? Well yes, when the Canadiens lose as many games as they are and the same for the Maple Leafs and Flames some of us get upset in Canada. As for your repeated comment that Canada is a failed state, it undermines any credibility you would otherwise make.

By the way most Canadians want gun control and have no problems with certain Canadians needing rifles for protection in rural areas or for subsistence hunters who actually eat what they hunt. We know who they are and respect them I was with a farmer who had to shoot his cow. It either had rabies or Mad cow disease. I never did find out from him what the test results were. He actually was very upset.

I worry about cops answering domestic violence calls or pull cars over.  Its why I hate hand guns anywhere but at a gun club.

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15 minutes ago, Rue said:

This current government is selective on what laws it likes and does not like for political reasons. As such I have zero confidence in it.

If that's your criteria, I can only assume you've never had confidence in any government.  :)

As for the rest, I more or less agree - a handgun ban won't stop guns coming over illegally from the States.  

I don't expect the situation with gun crime to improve, regardless of government or regulation because I believe most (not all) crime is driven by social factors.  We could address that, but there is no political will to do so since the mindset of the electorate is focused on punishment as opposed to real rehabilitation or prevention through social policies.

C'est la vie.

Edited by dialamah

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52 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If that's your criteria, I can only assume you've never had confidence in any government.  :)

As for the rest, I more or less agree - a handgun ban won't stop guns coming over illegally from the States.  

I don't expect the situation with gun crime to improve, regardless of government or regulation because I believe most (not all) crime is driven by social factors.  We could address that, but there is no political will to do so since the mindset of the electorate is focused on punishment as opposed to real rehabilitation or prevention through social policies.

C'est la vie.

I think the problem is more of the 'mindset' of what's coming into Canada.

Third world. We would need to spend a lot of money to rehabilitate. 

We no longer seek out Europeans to move here we encourage poor, poorly educated and often violent people from  Caribbean Nations, Africa, etc. to move here. They create ghettos, go on welfare, join gangs and shoot people. And now the Police can't card?

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11 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Banning immigrants, banning guns, delusional social panic sweeping across the failed state.

You don't need to ban immigrants.  You need to ban people who add negative value to the country and to communities.

I've never known anyone who owned a handgun who lived in a large urban city, let alone carried it around with them.  Because I don't hang out with thugs and hitmen and drug dealers.

Edited by Moonlight Graham

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10 hours ago, Teena said:

'Before the latest significant increase in violence on our streets, the tipping point is actually the elephant in the room. The maligned, misunderstood, so-called police “carding” which was made out to be a race issue. Its demise has provided added protection for the criminal element.'

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-to-fight-gun-crime-start-with-the-elephant

Carding is unconstitutional.  That's not the problem.  The elephant in the room is that our communities are decaying.

Allowing poor, uneducated, unskilled classes of people from countries Canada has travel advisories on due to violence, gangs etc and expecting them to magically check that violent culture and gang activity at the airport gate when they arrive is ridiculous.  We need to wake the hell up.  These individuals are of no value to us, the only way they can get into Canada is by claiming refugee status or asylum, and when they're let in they go and live in the ghetto part of town in some filthy run-down apartment building, they can barely speak english or not at all, and when you can't get a job you start running drugs or guns or stealing cars or general thieving.  You do that crap and you need to carry a handgun.

At least the ones on welfare and nothing else aren't shooting up our communities, though i may not be able to say the same for their children, who don't have money or a hope in hell either.

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34 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Carding is unconstitutional. 

 

I disagree. We need to card and I don't care what color you are. If I got carded, I would be fine with it. I would think Police are just doing their jobs. You get carded for a reason.

KILLING CARDING: The deadly toll of putting street checks on ice

As police across the GTA progressively stopped doing street checks over the past five years, gun violence and murders spiked violently, statistics obtained by the Sun through the Freedom of Information Act show.

Back in 2013, when the controversial practice known as carding was increasingly coming under fire over racial profiling concerns, Toronto Police conducted 196,907 street checks — a year that saw 22 gun murders.

In the five years that followed, street checks dropped precipitously — first to 17,001 in 2014 and virtually none in subsequent years.

The city’s cops simply all but stopped doing street checks.

Toronto Police have conducted a single street check in 2018, only 25 in 2017 and none in each of the two previous years.

Meanwhile, gun violence over that time has escalated rapidly — and not only in Toronto.

Shooting have also spiked in Peel Region where the practice was significantly curtailed after the former Liberal government slapped province-wide restrictions on street checks.

"The city is in crisis and I don’t understand how anyone can deny it,” retired staff-insp. Mike Earl, who headed up the Holdup Squad until last year, said recently.

The bad guys are running the streets.”

“The provincial regulations need to be revised,” he added. “The longer they wait, the worse it’s going to be.”

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/killing-carding-the-deadly-toll-of-putting-street-checks-on-ice

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2 hours ago, Rue said:

Who is banning immigrants? If you are referring to illegal Nigerians walking across the border from the US they are not being banned. They get to stay up to 3 years in hotels waiting for refugee hearings. Please spare me the pollyanna comments. Delusional panic? Well yes, when the Canadiens lose as many games as they are and the same for the Maple Leafs and Flames some of us get upset in Canada. As for your repeated comment that Canada is a failed state, it undermines any credibility you would otherwise make.

By the way most Canadians want gun control and have no problems with certain Canadians needing rifles for protection in rural areas or for subsistence hunters who actually eat what they hunt. We know who they are and respect them I was with a farmer who had to shoot his cow. It either had rabies or Mad cow disease. I never did find out from him what the test results were. He actually was very upset.

I worry about cops answering domestic violence calls or pull cars over.  Its why I hate hand guns anywhere but at a gun club.

Speech banning, gun grabbing freedom hating nanny police state run by lick spittle sycophants and cronies, who knew ?

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1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

  You need to ban people who add negative value to the country and to communities.

Then ban the weak, let the strong decide who lives or dies.  The gangsters are valued added, Darwinian forces in action, plus they provide cocaine to the market.

Edited by Dougie93

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3 hours ago, Rue said:

  It's why I hate hand guns anywhere but at a gun club.

The rest of your post is indicative of a city dweller.  There are rural folks that pack.  I was licensed to pack while prospecting.  Minimum .41 caliber for permit.  Not the weapon of choice in G-bear country.  Short shotgun is best, but it's always getting banged up with your pack frame.  Ruger Super Blackhawk was what I packed.  Travelling alone in thick coastal G-bear country is anything but relaxing . . . . always watch your backtrail.  Trudeau and Blair are idiots.

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1 hour ago, Teena said:

I disagree. We need to card and I don't care what color you are. If I got carded, I would be fine with it. I would think Police are just doing their jobs. You get carded for a reason

You don't have to speak to police, answer any questions, or provide them with any information, including your name or address, or be detained for any questioning, if there's no reasonable suspicion you've committed a crime or are connected to a crime.  Period.  There are exceptions when driving a vehicle because that's a regulated activity that isn't a right but a privilege.  Every single Canadian has the right to walk down the street without being hassled by government if they've done nothing wrong.  We live in a free country, not a police state or 1984. 

If police would like to question me and I've done nothing wrong, i will not answer questions and we can go down to the police station together, i'll get my lawyer and i'll continue to answer no questions, then i'll file a formal complain against the officers involved and appeal the living hell out of any offence or ticket they charge me with, up to a Supreme Court challenge if need be.  Then i'll sue the f*** out of them.  Luckily carding has been stopped for all the reasons i've cited.

If you don't agree, learn more about due process rights and our Charter of Rights.  Here's Sections 7 through 10:

Quote

 

7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Search or seizure

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

Detention or imprisonment

9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.

Arrest or detention

10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention

  • (a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor;

  • (b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and

  • (c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful.

 

  •  

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1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

Then ban the weak, let the strong decide who lives or dies.  The gangsters are valued added, Darwinian forces in action, plus they provide cocaine to the market.

We don't live in Nietzsche-land or Nazi Germany or a post-apocalyptic Mad Max-style free-for-all.  You should move to Somalia or El Salvador.

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1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You don't have to speak to police, answer any questions, or provide them with any information, including your name or address, or be detained for any questioning, if there's no reasonable suspicion you've committed a crime or are connected to a crime.  Period.  There are exceptions when driving a vehicle because that's a regulated activity that isn't a right but a privilege.  Every single Canadian has the right to walk down the street without being hassled by government if they've done nothing wrong.  We live in a free country, not a police state or 1984. 

If police would like to question me and I've done nothing wrong, i will not answer questions and we can go down to the police station together, i'll get my lawyer and i'll continue to answer no questions, then i'll file a formal complain against the officers involved and appeal the living hell out of any offence or ticket they charge me with, up to a Supreme Court challenge if need be.  Then i'll sue the f*** out of them.  Luckily carding has been stopped for all the reasons i've cited.

If you don't agree, learn more about due process rights and our Charter of Rights.  Here's Sections 7 through 10:

  •  

But do they both not provide on some level protection and safety for the public? One aimed at taking more high/drunk drivers off the road and the other taking illegal guns and drugs off the street?

I will abide by both. I have nothing to hide and it's for all of our protection. I prefer to feel safe. We are not going to change the quality of immigrants coming in anytime soon, so why not?

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47 minutes ago, Teena said:

Let me ask you this Moonlight ... do you consider Bill C-46 unconstitutional?

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/vbanga/canadian-police-can-now-pull-you-over-and-breathalyze-you-without-cause

I'm not sure, i'm on the fence.   Driving a vehicle is a privilege not a right and a regulated activity, and they can do that legally.  They can pull you over and ask for license and insurance at any time, which I don't really agree with either.  In the US they can't pull you over and do a roadside check if you've done nothing wrong.  If you're speeding or run a stop sign then yes.

Walking down a public sidewalk is not a regulated activity, it's very different.  If you're walking around minding your own business the police can go bugger off.

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2 minutes ago, Teena said:

But do they both not provide on some level protection and safety for the public? One aimed at taking more high/drunk drivers off the road and the other taking illegal guns and drugs off the street?

I will abide by both. I have nothing to hide and it's for all of our protection. I prefer to feel safe. We are not going to change the quality of immigrants coming in anytime soon, so why not?

We don't need the police raping our fundamental freedoms and legal rights to keep us safe.  If you want to live in 1984 or fascist China ok, i don't.  We need more cops on the streets in our cities, not the current cops stripping our rights..  Me feeling safe isn't an officer of the government with a gun on his hip and cuffs on his belt shining a light in my face asking me questions and recording all the answers on videotape and in his 1984 computer database.  You don't understand the consequences of what you're supporting.

Go check out youtube footage of the Toronto G20 protests and the fallout.

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12 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

We don't live in Nietzsche-land or Nazi Germany or a post-apocalyptic Mad Max-style free-for-all.

You're the one who wants to ban people, the gangsters provide cocaine to the wealthy and they are the only ones in the ghettos with capital to spend

They're no the ones who are going to get banned, your handgun ban only targets the law abiding, it's not for the gangsters.

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1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

You're the one who wants to ban people, the gangsters provide cocaine to the wealthy and they are the only ones in the ghettos with capital to spend

They're no the ones who are going to get banned, your handgun ban only targets the law abiding, it's not for the gangsters.

I never said i want to ban handguns.  It will do nothing.  A lot of the handguns used by criminals are smuggled from the US.

Gangsters are into illegal activity, those people are scum.  Cocaine and drugs and stolen cars etc are for losers who don't have their ssh*t together.  We need people in this country who follow the law and make an honest living and raise their children to do the same.  These are the types of people who make this country great.  Gangsters are what make developing countries into violent corrupt crime-infested slum holes that people flee to come here.  Canadians are not immigrating to El Salvador or Somalia, it's the other way around.

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Just now, Moonlight Graham said:

I never said i want to ban handguns.  It will do nothing.  A lot of the handguns used by criminals are smuggled from the US.

Gangsters are into illegal activity, those people are scum.  Cocaine and drugs and stolen cars etc are for losers who don't have their ssh*t together.  We need people in this country who follow the law and make an honest living and raise their children to do the same.  These are the types of people who make this country great.  Gangsters are what make developing countries into violent corrupt crime-infested slum holes that people flee to come here.  Canadians are not immigrating to El Salvador or Somalia, it's the other way around.

Only the wealthy successful people can afford powdered cocaine, you obviously have no idea what is going on, everything you are posting is naive prattle.

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The gangsters who are packing the handguns in Toronto are the top of the pyramid, they have the shooters because they have the money.

The reason they have the money is that they sell the blow, the powdered, the expensive stuff, and they sell it to the rich people.

 

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The drug of choice for poor people on the other hand is crystal meth, because it's cheap, but meth dealers are not gangsters, they're small time.

Crystal meth incites the junkies to commit property crimes, but there's not a lot of shooting involved, the shootings are related to the high end cocaine market.

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