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6 hours ago, Rue said:

Of course I never said that. I  i in fact said ...please do not presume to tell any of us Jews about what anti-semitism is or where it comes from or what we should be afraid of.  

“Jews survived all the defeats, expulsions, persecutions and pogroms, the centuries in which they were regarded as a pariah people, even the Holocaust itself, because they never gave up the faith that one day they would be free to live as Jews without fear.” — Jonathan Sacks

That is why I  also politely asked that you   please don't use the suffering of my people as a  platform from which to  rationalize negative beliefs as to  all Muslims and/or to justify any anti immigration and anti refugee policy against anyone.

All  I see is  you  repeating  back what Argus said which I now again argue uses anti-semitism  as the latest pretext to  incite  fear and hatred of Muslimst o then use those fears and hatreds to create a justification to ban Muslims from coming to Canada and to fear the ones in Canada as ticking time bombs. Give me a break. Please do not expect me to believe you and Argus  simply want an anti-semite test in the pre-screening interview for all immigrants and refugees.

In fact you two and all the other anti-immigrant and anti-refugee speakers have yet explained or offered one objective test to screen undesireables let alone define undesireables. Not one of you has provided any objective basis to show Canada is over-run by Muslim terrorism or any other terrorism linked to refugees.

I again ask  please do not  use the past, present or potential future misery of my people  or the existence of anti-semitism or specific terrorist or extremist Muslims or other  depraved people as your shield of justification to  negatively stereotyping or hate anyone. 

Here if you can't get it have this 14 year old explain it with these 3 quites::

What is done cannot be undone, but one can prevent it happening again.

Those who have courage and faith shall never perish in misery.

No one has ever become poor by giving.You lift out of the body for what may be seconds, minutes, hours, I am not sure, but you do and you realize, now hang on, all of this is the material world of physical tense and human bodies and human made negative decisions but it doesn't end there or begin there.

That's the best I can explain it. Terrorism is designed to make you fear not just terrorists but innocent people that you lump in as terrorists. Those people you lump in with terrorists can become  terrorists because they pick up you claim they are and hate them giving them the impression the terrorists are right, everyone hates them in the West so they may as well be a terrorist.

I do not play that game.

Yah I had a kid look at me face to face and see a big Jewish Satan. I saw him recoil expecting me to grow larger and suck his eyes out. All I did is pull a worm out of a  hole in his foot. I am not sure after that if he thought I was Satan. I didn't ask  him. I stuck a tetanus shot in his arm, poured some disinfectant on his hole bandaged it and left as quick as I ran into him so I would not get stoned. No terrorism didn't get me to run from that boy and for all I know he went on to kill Israelis, other Palestinians or maybe he did not and moved to Canada and does stand up comedy or sells drugs. I do not know. I do not fear it.

 

1) I am not afraid to presume that some Jews do need to be told what anti-Semitism is and what they should be afraid of, because in this post-truth society the blame for anti-Semitism is placed where it doesn't belong, and the people who foment all the hatred are treated like sacred cows by our government.

2) I don't care if you're Jewish, you're only 1 Jew. There are tens of thousands of Jews in Canada and I can care for them just as much as you so stow it.

3) I applaud your great and kind actions, but it's a mistake to ignore recent and distant history, and current events, just for the sake of appeasement.

 

Sorry if I was bristly but I don't like being called a fear monger. I don't exaggerate and I don't lie or omit. 

Quote

I used to be deathly afraid of myself. Now I have no feelings one way or the other. When you get older your feelings turn to how your prostate or back is doing.

If you lived in constant fear then why are you downplaying the effect of anti-Semitism? Why are you acting like the people who hold hate rallies in our country aren't all that bad?

https://beyondphilosophy.com/15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-havent/

Quote

96% of unhappy customers don’t complain, however 91% of those will simply leave and never come back – 1st Financial Training services.

There's a well-travelled stat about customer complaint calls, you can find it everywhere, that says that 96% of customers who are unsatisfied won't complain. They'll just quit using your product or service. And fyi when it comes to economics stats are not just thrown out willy-nilly. They are reliable, proven statistics.

What do you think the ratio is for people who go out to cheer at a hate rally vs the number who are sitting at home brooding? Still just 25-1? Why is it legal for people to do that in Canada? Is it just legal while Trudeau is PM? (yes)

When people say they're going to kill you they generally mean it. 

Edited by WestCanMan

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27 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1) I am not afraid to presume that some Jews do need to be told what anti-Semitism is and what they should be afraid of, because in this post-truth society the blame for anti-Semitism is placed where it doesn't belong, and the people who foment all the hatred are treated like sacred cows by our government.

2) I don't care if you're Jewish, you're only 1 Jew. There are tens of thousands of Jews in Canada and I can care for them just as much as you so stow it.

3) I applaud your great and kind actions, but it's a mistake to ignore recent and distant history, and current events, just for the sake of appeasement.

A lot of Liberal Jews can't bear to denounce behaviour within any other ethnic group. Either they're terrified of being labelled Islamophobes or they fear being accused of 'targeting' a group, as they themselves have been targeted. As one of my cites put it:

Recently its founder, Yigal Carmon, observed that this Jew-hatred had spread to America and Europe where it was turning into “really violent threats based on Islamic texts”.

And yet, he added, the American Jewish community targeted by such attacks was silent. “Not a protest, no public activity, nothing at all. They are afraid to be thought of as Islamophobic” Carmon’s observation is also true of British Jews. With a few exceptions over the years, the secular and religious leadership has been silent about Muslim antisemitism. Yet the problem is serious.

This is because Jewish leaders equate Islamophobia with antisemitism. They have thus fallen for the Islamists’ propaganda ploy in making a grotesque comparison.

The key difference is the distinction between truth and lies.

For while antisemitism is based entirely on deranged fantasies about the Jewish people, Islamophobia labels as bigotry all adverse comment about Muslims, including truths about Islamic extremism and jihadi terrorism. Some people are indeed irrationally prejudiced against Muslims. But the term Islamophobia was coined to suppress rational, legitimate and necessary acknowledgment of the dangers within the Islamic world.

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38 minutes ago, collinmatthew said:

I understand that they are concerned because they feel welcome in Toronto. Difficult situation. 

Huh?

Was that sarcasm or did you make a mistake in your wording?

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11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Your observations are not empathetic or thoughtful.

They are empathetic.  I'm putting myself in their shoes.  They certainly aren't sympathetic.  There's no rental crisis in Toronto.

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10 hours ago, dialamah said:

If  it's 'absolute nonsense', why are so many non-Muslim people also complaining about being unable to find decent housing at an affordable price?  And why are you so rude?  I expect that from Argus, not you. 

I looked on Kijiji for 'long term rentals in Toronto', and didn't find a single hit below $1350.00.   I'm guessing that the one you found for "$650, renovated" was "per week" or  perhaps for a room in a larger house, if you clicked into the actual ad - when I was looking for rentals for myself and for temporary workers for my employer, I was fooled more than once by a headline.  And sure enough, when I limited my search on Kijijii to $1,000.00, I got a bunch of "rooms", and other types of shared accommodation.

There's lots of basement apartments for rent in the GTA for well under $1000.  I just checked again.  You're not searching properly, use the slider on the left to filter the max rent.  I know a friend who lives in Toronto and said he had no problem getting a nice basement apartment for $850 a month, utilities included.  Tons of people in Toronto/GTA have investment properties, houses and condos, that they rent out.  He lives in a house that's an investment property where the upstairs is rented out and he rents the basement.

Also, nobody is entitled to live in Toronto if they make peanuts.  If you worked at Tim Hortons you'd be crazy to live in the GTA or Vancouver.

Edited by Moonlight Graham

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The only way to constrain government is for the government to go broke.

Entitled refugees flowing in to swamp the centrally planned social welfare gulag; all to the good.

Burn baby burn.

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On 1/7/2020 at 7:29 AM, Argus said:

She whines about her housing and the money she's given and says if she knew things would be like this she'd have stayed in Turkey or back

Argus, you keep stirring the pot any way you can, thanks.

Yes, it may be difficult to believe, but many of those people from what you and Trump might consider "shitty countries" actually had a better home back there, more friends and a more fulfilling life.  Canada was portrayed to them as this land of opportunity waiting for them with open arms where they can earn big money and prosper.  It comes as a surprise, or rather a shock to them what the reality is.    Do not blame them.  Blame your government for continuing to bring more of them here any way they can, so they can expand the resource sector with cheap labor and continue the onslaught on the Canadian environment and wildlife for their own gains.

Take a look at what people have built in the past in those countries and what kind of sheds for cattle we keep erecting here in Canada trying to sell them for a million a piece and look no further.

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On 1/12/2020 at 1:44 PM, Rue said:

edited

Let's get real. The point of this thread is a shmuck is a shmuck unless of course he/she is a refugee shmuck  then it means we can use that shmuckiness to make negative assumptions about the entire refugee determination system and other refugees.

 I can see deficiencies in how refugees are defined and/or processed. Yes I get it.  The refugee system should  screen out terrorists, criminals, human rights violators, false claimants I get that...but do  you want to  tell me how the subjective shmuck qualities of the people you mentioned create characteristics that can be screened out? If so how? NO ONE HAS.

If all  anyone has are  subjective anecdotes of a few shmucks acting like shmucks , what do you want me to say?  How does that establish a basis to shut down or LIMIT the entire system because of these shmucks?  Please explain.

Does anyone have anything to offer other than to point out negative qualities about specific  refugees and then automatically conclude it means other refugees neeed to be limited?

 

You are bringing such perspective here as to threaten to ruin the fun for the many people who think that complaining about individuals from groups that they don't like constitutes political discussion.

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21 hours ago, dialamah said:

@Rue  Wish there were awards for posts, I'd give you one for what you've written.  

I would like to ask Rue or any true patriot how he/she would feel if their neighborhood was 35 per cent or higher Muslim? Every day when you look out your kitchen or living room window you see Hijabs or Burkas. Are all Muslims terrorists? No of course not. But trust me your neighborhood would change with higher numbers. I have learned to keep to myself.  I avoid this religion like a plague. Why? I guess you need to experience it to know what I'm talking about. 

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1 hour ago, Teena said:

I would like to ask Rue or any true patriot how he/she would feel if their neighborhood was 35 per cent or higher Muslim? Every day when you look out your kitchen or living room window you see Hijabs or Burkas. Are all Muslims terrorists?

Why would "any true patriot" be disturbed by seeing Canadians outside their window?

Quote

No of course not. But trust me your neighborhood would change with higher numbers. I have learned to keep to myself.  I avoid this religion like a plague. Why? I guess you need to experience it to know what I'm talking about. 

We all have our crosses to bear, I suppose.  I've never had a bad experience at the hands of an identifiable minority group; have had several bad experiences at the hands of White-skinned Canadian males and a few White-skinned, Canadian Christians.  Still, I am not bothered by seeing white males or Christians outside in my neighborhood either, because I realize that a few bad apples in the barrel is not a reason to stop eating all the apples.  

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8 hours ago, cougar said:

Argus, you keep stirring the pot any way you can, thanks.

Yes, it may be difficult to believe, but many of those people from what you and Trump might consider "shitty countries" actually had a better home back there, more friends and a more fulfilling life.  Canada was portrayed to them as this land of opportunity waiting for them with open arms where they can earn big money and prosper. 

Leaders of Islamic State named Canada and the west a target.

Surely not everyone who comes here comes for that reason, but they didn't all come for jobs and to get along with others. Hence the bigots-only housing.

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21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1) I am not afraid to presume that some Jews do need to be told what anti-Semitism is and what they should be afraid of, because

2) I don't care if you're Jewish, you're only 1 Jew. There are tens of thousands of Jews in Canada and I can care for them...

3) I applaud your great and kind actions, but it's a mistake to ignore recent and distant history, and current events, just for the sake of appeasement

If you lived in constant fear then why are you downplaying the effect of anti-Semitism?

Why are you acting like... 

There's a well-travelled stat about customer complaint calls, you can find it everywhere, that says that 96% of customers who are 

What do you think the ratio is for people who go out to cheer at a hate rally vs the number who are sitting at home brooding..

When people say they're going to kill you they generally mean it. 

Your first two comments are contradictory and defective in reasoning. I never claimed  you were afraid to lecture me and all,Jews about what we should fear. I in fact asked  you not to  presume  you can lecture me or any Jew about what we should fear. I said it was patronizing. I now say again you claim to tell Jews how we should think and feel. What you in fact do is project your feelings about Muslims on Jews and tell us we must think like you and I again say this Jew and all Jews do not ask or need you to tell us who hates us and how we should respond to them. Canadian soldiers already have and, thank them.

In regards to 3, you in fact ridicule my comments and again show you prefer telling people in this case Jews how we should feel rather than ask us how we feel.

You are absolute false in your representation that  I have ever stated on this forum hatred or terrorism should be appeased. I support Army Guy on his opinion on how to deal with terrorism.

Next do not presume to tell me what I feel let alone tell me I constantly live in fear of Muslims. The constant fear of Muslims you refer to is your fear which you then try project on me. I am not you. Stop telling me what I feel and ask.

Do not ask me why I am acting. That is an allegation thatvhave lied about what I told you I think and feel. If you now want to call meca liarc and claim I act, then I state to you that you do not have the courtesy to respect my views and feelings and that is no different than what you claim the Muslims you fear do.

You make speculative claims about customers and ratios with no objective basis from which to assume any  extrapolated pattern of behaviour so I can not respond to them beause I can not,understandv them. You made rhetorical questions that ask me to assume things without any objective basis.That is illogical. Its simplybfear mongering. You ask me to conjure fear based on subjective pandering.

Finally and  you clearly show you do not understand the phenomena you presume to lecture Jews on...we have been as many times killed with no warning as we have with warning if not more times. You show ignorance  not only of how we have been attacked but the motus operandinof terrorists and murderers.

In regards to the above comments I speak for myself but I sure as hell know my history far better than you and Judaism does not and has never told my people it is justified to hate. I fact it compels us to do the exact opposite. Even in justified self defense our need to use force is not to be glorified or accepted as a norm. We can not allow that. We must view that as a tragedy that compels us to find a better way. We must always promise,our warriorscwecwill notvabandon other options to try avoid them having to die if it is reasonably possible. That is not appeasement.  No one has said condone terror and hatred but some of say do not rest on  soldiers or police to always be the  only solution.

You are so busy telling me how and what to feel  or  what think you can not hear me. That is no big deal. I do not expect you to understand.

If I can get just one person who would otherwise choose to hate and fear to find another way that is all that counts.

I learned my values above from Judaism but also gentiles equally, especially soldiers..someone like Army Guy who would defend and die for me. I could never ask him to hate for me. I do not have that right. 

Edited by Rue

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1 hour ago, Teena said:

I would like to ask Rue or any true patriot how he/she would feel if their neighborhood was 35 per cent or higher Muslim? Every day when you look out your kitchen or living room window you see Hijabs or Burkas. Are all Muslims terrorists? No of course not. But trust me your neighborhood would change with higher numbers. I have learned to keep to myself.  I avoid this religion like a plague. Why? I guess you need to experience it to know what I'm talking about. 

First off I live in Mississauga so I live in the very scenario you state. Secondly I lived in Israel with the very same scenario and Inhabeen spit on, had rocks thrown at me and seen horrible things.

I have learned that religious extremists scream and sputvtyecsamecwzy and blow up the exact same way. I AM NO angel or righteous preacher. I have cleaned back sides. The shit is the same. Also I never claimed to be a patriot. In my world patriotic is a subjective term civilians use.

I know soldiers but they do not use that word. Ask them why. I am under the impression they do not use it the same way I do not claim to be religious or righteous. 

I do claim to be a devotee of the Montreal Canadiens. It  ends there.

 

Edited by Rue

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9 hours ago, cougar said:

Argus, you keep stirring the pot any way you can, thanks.

I wrote that story for the Globe?

9 hours ago, cougar said:

Yes, it may be difficult to believe, but many of those people from what you and Trump might consider "shitty countries" actually had a better home back there, more friends and a more fulfilling life.

And yet the government says they are here because otherwise they would be doomed.

9 hours ago, cougar said:

 Canada was portrayed to them as this land of opportunity waiting for them with open arms where they can earn big money and prosper.  It comes as a surprise, or rather a shock to them what the reality is.    Do not blame them.  Blame your government for continuing to bring more of them here any way they can, so they can expand the resource sector with cheap labor and continue the onslaught on the Canadian environment and wildlife for their own gains.

But I DO blame the government. I've always blamed the government. I've always said if I was living in some third world shithole I'd try to get here or to some other western country too.

 

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Why would "any true patriot" be disturbed by seeing Canadians outside their window?

Hijabs and buraqas are not Canadian outfits. They are traditional outfits from the middle east worn defiantly by people proclaiming they are different and have no intention of adapting.

 

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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

 

Teena said:
I would like to ask Rue or any true patriot how he/she would feel if their neighborhood was 35 per cent or higher Muslim? Every day when you look out your kitchen or living room window you see Hijabs or Burkas. Are all Muslims terrorists? No of course not.

Dia said: 
Why would "any true patriot" be disturbed by seeing Canadians outside their window?

Teena said:
Often on the way to work in the morning I see a Muslim that lives around the corner from me, walk their child to the bus stop dressed in the photo I have attached to this post.
Every time I see this I cannot understand it. It looks awful and I get these feelings of untrust and seriousness. I have a hard time with it. Am I wrong or racist for feeling this way? Dia, what kind of questions/feelings go through your mind when you see someone that is dressed like the attached photo?

Teena said: 
But trust me your neighborhood would change with higher numbers. I have learned to keep to myself.  I avoid this religion like a plague. Why? I guess you need to experience it to know what I'm talking about. 

Dia Said:
We all have our crosses to bear, I suppose.  I've never had a bad experience at the hands of an identifiable minority group; have had several bad experiences at the hands of White-skinned Canadian males and a few White-skinned, Canadian Christians.  Still, I am not bothered by seeing white males or Christians outside in my neighborhood either, because I realize that a few bad apples in the barrel is not a reason to stop eating all the apple
s.  

Teena said:
Well lucky for you Dia. I grew up in a low income, very diverse neighborhood. Bullying, bad and good in every race. I get that. But Islam .... the covering and restrictions for women, the seriousness of this religion, is for the birds. #NotCanadian

41wsKv6EXXL._AC_UY550_.jpg

Edited by Teena
Word change

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2 minutes ago, Teena said:

Dia, what kind of questions/feelings go through your mind when you see someone that is dressed like the above photo?

I don't like that.  I also don't like seeing other things - JW's and Mormons proselytizing on the street, Mennonite women and girls in their modest dress, Catholic priests in their robes.  They all remind me of the ways in which Christian religions oppress women and sexually assault children, currently and throughout history.   

Still, most Christians are decent people -albeit misguided - so I'm not going to go out in the world to advocate for limiting or eliminating Christianity or Christians in Canada.  That's what's #notCanadian.

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39 minutes ago, Argus said:

Hijabs and buraqas are not Canadian outfits. They are traditional outfits from the middle east worn defiantly by people proclaiming they are different and have no intention of adapting.

Stuff like that only bothers people who hate anyone who isn't exactly like them, aka racists, xenophobes, anti-Semites, islamophobes.  You don't need to deny you are any/all of those things; who you are shines in the world for everyone to see.

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

I know soldiers but they do not use that word. Ask them why. I am under the impression they do not use it the same way I do not claim to be religious or righteous.

In the Canadian Army, one's patriotism is expressed by simply being the quiet professional, conducting one's self with the utmost military bearing at all times, for Regiment, Corps, Commander-in-Chief.

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14 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I don't like that.  I also don't like seeing other things - JW's and Mormons proselytizing on the street, Mennonite women and girls in their modest dress, Catholic priests in their robes.  They all remind me of the ways in which Christian religions oppress women and sexually assault children, currently and throughout history.   

Still, most Christians are decent people -albeit misguided - so I'm not going to go out in the world to advocate for limiting or eliminating Christianity or Christians in Canada.  That's what's #notCanadian.

No other religion covers the entire body and face. #NotCanadian

Why does Canada even allow this dress? It is also a security risk.

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12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

In the Canadian Army, one's patriotism is expressed by simply being the quiet professional, conducting one's self with the utmost military bearing at all times, for Regiment, Corps, Commander-in-Chief.

. Thank you. Deference to you.

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

 

I have learned that religious extremists scream and sputvtyecsamecwzy and blow up the exact same way.

 

I have learned to keep my distance :(

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4 minutes ago, Rue said:

. Thank you. Deference to you.

No deference asked, it was an honour and privilege to serve.

Facta Non Verba.

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