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Ukrainian Passenger Aircraft Crashes in Iran

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A Ukrainian Jet with 180 people on board just crashed, while departing Tehran International Airport. This sounds very suspicious. Is this another false flag to escalate the war with Iran? The American military industrial complex is despicable.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrainian-airlines-passenger-plane-with-180-aboard-crashes-near-tehran-reports

We are now getting reports that the attack on the U.S. Embassy could of been a false flag as well. If I had to guess, Trumps being blackmailed.

 

Edited by ProudConservative

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12 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

A Ukrainian Jet with 180 people on board just crashed, while departing Tehran International Airport. This sounds very suspicious. Is this another false flag to escalate the war with Iran? The American military industrial complex is despicable.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrainian-airlines-passenger-plane-with-180-aboard-crashes-near-tehran-reports

We are now getting reports that the attack on the U.S. Embassy could of been a false flag as well. If I had to guess, Trumps being blackmailed.

 

Who's reporting that?  It's completely irresponsible.  

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2 hours ago, Shady said:

Who's reporting that?  It's completely irresponsible.  

I agree, but with the Russian-funded disinfo sites 'responsible' isn't actually a thing anymore.

People will not speak up about irresponsible, or even dangerous posts that are perceived as coming from people who agree with their politics.  It's a terrible situation, and won't get better until people like you and me start speaking up with volume about false information from our political team mates.

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21 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

A Ukrainian Jet with 180 people on board just crashed, while departing Tehran International Airport. This sounds very suspicious. Is this another false flag to escalate the war with Iran? The American military industrial complex is despicable.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukrainian-airlines-passenger-plane-with-180-aboard-crashes-near-tehran-reports

We are now getting reports that the attack on the U.S. Embassy could of been a false flag as well. If I had to guess, Trumps being blackmailed.

 

Iran sent missiles against US bases in Iraq.  If the US wanted to escalate it doesn't need any more excuses.  It obviously doesn't.

As for the jet, I don't think it's a coincidence it happened just after those missile attacks, when Iranian air defences were at their most touchy.

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I remain skeptical about the cause.  The wide debris field says it broke up in flight.  I would be looking for missile or bomb evidence.  I doubt we will ever get the truth on this one.   So sad.  The level of academics and professionals lost tells you a lot about what such people think of living in Iran (and Canada).  A huge loss to both countries.

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Well this makes sense to me... The deepstate hates Trump, and are only using him to enrich the military industrial complex. You don't see CNN or MSNBC really speaking out against the war... because they are all controlled opposition, plus bombs on Television are amazing for ratings.

Anyways... I think the Americans used an electromagnetic weapon against the aircraft to blame it on Iran. This way they can get Canadians to hate the Iranian government, and get sympathy for their stupid war... Like I said... hate the Military Industrial Complex.

It's no coincidence that they shot down a Ukrainian airliner too. It's all a big chess game to these jerks.

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The plane had gone through maintenance only two days before. The Ukrainians insist there was no technical fault in the plane. 

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As I (and many others with aviation background) had speculated, it appears that the Ukraine commercial flight was shot down by a missile.   Here is a (probably cell phone) video.  You have to watch very carefully, but you can see the missile inbound from the left side of the screen and strike the airplane.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html?te=1&nl=morning-briefing&emc=edit_NN_p_20200110&section=topNews?campaign_id=9&instance_id=15090&segment_id=20204&user_id=2a3e757b2285568cc6aee5465e9acea4&regi_id=100982531tion=topNews

This looks to be an absolute parallel to the Vincenze incident, except this time, there will be an Iranian soldier who will have to live with the full knowledge that his error killed 176 innocent people - many of them Iranian Canadians.

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On 1/7/2020 at 11:20 PM, ProudConservative said:

A Ukrainian Jet 8.S. Embassy could of been a false flag as well. If I had to guess, Trumps being blackmailed.

 

Choosing to fly commercially in airspace subject to active conflict is criminally negligent. False flag my ass. Blatant stupidity by Ukrainian airlines is the immediate cause.

Edited by Rue

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3 hours ago, cannuck said:

As I (and many others with aviation background) had speculated, it appears that the Ukraine commercial flight was shot down by a missile.   Here is a (probably cell phone) video.  You have to watch very carefully, but you can see the missile inbound from the left side of the screen and strike the airplane.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/video/iran-plane-missile.html?te=1&nl=morning-briefing&emc=edit_NN_p_20200110&section=topNews?campaign_id=9&instance_id=15090&segment_id=20204&user_id=2a3e757b2285568cc6aee5465e9acea4&regi_id=100982531tion=topNews

This looks to be an absolute parallel to the Vincenze incident, except this time, there will be an Iranian soldier who will have to live with the full knowledge that his error killed 176 innocent people - many of them Iranian Canadians.

I do not condone what happened but the fault lies with Ukrainian airlines putting its plane in active flight in what is called a red zone.

The radar system that locked on and took down the jet was pre -programmed to knock out anything in the air. Why Ukrainian airlines would not know this would be the case and so stay away from the red  zone, Ii.e., cany airspace over Iran like all other commercial  airlines did that night, begs an answer.

You walk smack dab in front of a live firing range you get bullet up yer ass. It ain't rocket science.

Edited by Rue

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36 minutes ago, Rue said:

I do not condone what happened but the fault lies with Ukrainian airlines putting its plane in active flight in what is called a red zone.

The radar system that locked on and took down the jet was pre -programmed to knock out anything in the air. Why Ukrainian airlines would not know this would be the case and so stay away from the red  zone, Ii.e., cany airspace over Iran like all other commercial  airlines did that night, begs an answer.

You walk smack dab in front of a live firing range you get bullet up yer ass. It ain't rocket science.

Um, Iran has air traffic control like every country with international flights.  It’s the Iranian government’s responsibility to manage its airports and inform its air traffic controllers whether passenger flights can go ahead.  Also, the Iranian military shot it down, so that’s a pretty high percentage of liability.  So what, military aren’t responsible for distinguishing between commercial jets and foreign military aircraft?  It’s like blaming someone for getting killed by gunfire because he didn’t wear a bulletproof vest.  Ukraine should have taken more precautions but that doesn’t make Ukraine responsible for what happened to the aircraft.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Um, Iran has air traffic control like every country with international flights.  It’s the Iranian government’s responsibility to manage its airports and inform its air traffic controllers whether passenger flights can go ahead.  Also, the Iranian military shot it down, so that’s a pretty high percentage of liability.  So what, military aren’t responsible for distinguishing between commercial jets and foreign military aircraft?  It’s like blaming someone for getting killed by gunfire because he didn’t wear a bulletproof vest.  Ukraine should have taken more precautions but that doesn’t make Ukraine responsible for what happened to the aircraft.  

 

1. Air traffic control at an international airport only can monitor airspace, but not  necessarily control it. Huge difference. Ultimate control is with the pilots of aircrafts in their air and anything else in the air. There are near misses every day precisely because of that limitation.  Furthermore the Ministry that handles the civil airport and the Defence Ministry in Iran as is the case in all countries is distinct. We do not know the internal command structure over airspace in Iran but one would think its the Defence Ministry not the Civil Aviation Authority that would have the last say which you and I probably both agree with but are you sure the Defence Ministry told the Civil Authorities to open the airport? Do you or I know that? Does that sound like it would make sense? Does it make sense given no other commercial aircraft went up in the air?

2. Radar tracking movement in the air does NOT and can not guarantee the identity of what it tracks, only what is in the air and the approximate size, direction  and speed of what is in the air and even then you ask radar experts, its far better than it was say 20 years ago but its not perfect. Nothing replaces eyes and binoculars.

3.Your analogy about live fire  is false. Why would someone put on a bullet proof vest then walk into a live firing range? That makes no sense. You don't walk into the live firing range period. You can't guarantee safety in any life fire zone. It is impossible. It would be idiotic to think any precaution would be guaranteed to make standing in the line of fire safe. Ask any police officer who wears a police vest. Ask any soldier. Ask any pilot whether it makes sense to fly in a red zone for any reason.

4. Commercial airlines were advised by the Iranians and external intelligence sources they are privy to, not to put aircraft in the air that night. They were told there was an active red zone across the entire airspace of Iran due to missiles being fired into Iraq. We know that because other airlines said so and no other airline put their planes up.  Ukranian Airlines despite knowing this put its flight up in the air. Why? Why is blaming the Iranian military any different than blaming Trump? Neither are to blame, the airline I unless you can prove Iranian Defence officials told the Civil Authority to open the airport. If that is the case then I would agree with you.

5. We know the Iranian missile strikes were controlled face saving shots deliberately aimed at safe targets. The US concedes this. Had Iran intended true injuries it would have shot elsewhere. That is inconsistent behaviour with shooting down a civilian aircraft full of its own citizens not withstanding they may also have been Canadian citizens as well. Questions remain. Why would  Iranian civil aviation authorities clear international air activity in a red zone in progress. Think about it. That makes no sense. W

We do not know the decision why Ukrainian Airlines put their flight up but even if they did get clearance do, they should not have for the same reason no other airline did. They still knew our ought to have known there was an immediate and real danger and risk. Your argument would be stronger  if all other airlines had gone back up in the air. This did not happen. Someone in Ukrainian Airlines blew it and that airline under civil law can and will be sued by all the passengers for wrongful death in a class action suit.

In regards to Iranian military culpability of course they shot it down. They had pre-programmed their missile firing systems to knock anything out of the air other than their own missiles. That is how it works. No one watchs the radar bleeps trying to figure out whether the bleep is friendly or hostile. Its not how it works. There is a computer that is activated and shoots. This is precisely why Iraq shut down its airspace. Its precisely why in 9-11, the entire North American space was shut down. In any missile attack and Israel has had plenty the civil airport at Ben Gurion Airport is closed own. Even when missiles hit the ground miles from the airport and do not kill anyone, they cost millions of dollars in lost revenue from air delay to cargo or other flights as all of Israel airspace is declared a red zone and shut down until an all clear is given. I find it impossible to believe an all clear was given so soon after a missile shoot and Iran on red alert awaiting possible retaliatory missile shots.

I have never heard of a civilian airport being open during a red zone or on-going air conflict. Never. Airports have been closed down for far less risk. Ask any pilot.

 

Edited by Rue

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47 minutes ago, Rue said:

 

1. Air traffic control at an international airport only can monitor airspace, but not  necessarily control it. Huge difference. Ultimate control is with the pilots of aircrafts in their air and anything else in the air. There are near misses every day precisely because of that limitation.  Furthermore the Ministry that handles the civil airport and the Defence Ministry in Iran as is the case in all countries is distinct. We do not know the internal command structure over airspace in Iran but one would think its the Defence Ministry not the Civil Aviation Authority that would have the last say which you and I probably both agree with but are you sure the Defence Ministry told the Civil Authorities to open the airport? Do you or I know that? Does that sound like it would make sense? Does it make sense given no other commercial aircraft went up in the air?

2. Radar tracking movement in the air does NOT and can not guarantee the identity of what it tracks, only what is in the air and the approximate size, direction  and speed of what is in the air and even then you ask radar experts, its far better than it was say 20 years ago but its not perfect. Nothing replaces eyes and binoculars.

3.Your analogy about live fire  is false. Why would someone put on a bullet proof vest then walk into a live firing range? That makes no sense. You don't walk into the live firing range period. You can't guarantee safety in any life fire zone. It is impossible. It would be idiotic to think any precaution would be guaranteed to make standing in the line of fire safe. Ask any police officer who wears a police vest. Ask any soldier. Ask any pilot whether it makes sense to fly in a red zone for any reason.

4. Commercial airlines were advised by the Iranians and external intelligence sources they are privy to, not to put aircraft in the air that night. They were told there was an active red zone across the entire airspace of Iran due to missiles being fired into Iraq. We know that because other airlines said so and no other airline put their planes up.  Ukranian Airlines despite knowing this put its flight up in the air. Why? Why is blaming the Iranian military any different than blaming Trump? Neither are to blame, the airline I unless you can prove Iranian Defence officials told the Civil Authority to open the airport. If that is the case then I would agree with you.

5. We know the Iranian missile strikes were controlled face saving shots deliberately aimed at safe targets. The US concedes this. Had Iran intended true injuries it would have shot elsewhere. That is inconsistent behaviour with shooting down a civilian aircraft full of its own citizens not withstanding they may also have been Canadian citizens as well. Questions remain. Why would  Iranian civil aviation authorities clear international air activity in a red zone in progress. Think about it. That makes no sense. W

We do not know the decision why Ukrainian Airlines put their flight up but even if they did get clearance do, they should not have for the same reason no other airline did. They still knew our ought to have known there was an immediate and real danger and risk. Your argument would be stronger  if all other airlines had gone back up in the air. This did not happen. Someone in Ukrainian Airlines blew it and that airline under civil law can and will be sued by all the passengers for wrongful death in a class action suit.

In regards to Iranian military culpability of course they shot it down. They had pre-programmed their missile firing systems to knock anything out of the air other than their own missiles. That is how it works. No one watchs the radar bleeps trying to figure out whether the bleep is friendly or hostile. Its not how it works. There is a computer that is activated and shoots. This is precisely why Iraq shut down its airspace. Its precisely why in 9-11, the entire North American space was shut down. In any missile attack and Israel has had plenty the civil airport at Ben Gurion Airport is closed own. Even when missiles hit the ground miles from the airport and do not kill anyone, they cost millions of dollars in lost revenue from air delay to cargo or other flights as all of Israel airspace is declared a red zone and shut down until an all clear is given. I find it impossible to believe an all clear was given so soon after a missile shoot and Iran on red alert awaiting possible retaliatory missile shots.

I have never heard of a civilian airport being open during a red zone or on-going air conflict. Never. Airports have been closed down for far less risk. Ask any pilot.

 

You’re still blaming the victim.  Leaving my front door unlocked doesn’t mean thieves have a right to rob me.   Looking sexy doesn’t give a rapist a free pass to rape.  Blame the thief and rapist.

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I'm sure they have had a very interesting conversation at the Iranian military-hq once they realised that they had made a serious mistake. 

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On 1/9/2020 at 4:14 AM, cannuck said:

I remain skeptical about the cause.  The wide debris field says it broke up in flight.  I would be looking for missile or bomb evidence.  I doubt we will ever get the truth on this one.   So sad.  The level of academics and professionals lost tells you a lot about what such people think of living in Iran (and Canada).  A huge loss to both countries.

Now if you were only a part of the globalist elite, you would really know as to what really did happen on that day. But sadly, you and me will once again be left out of the loop. But as you said, we the people will never really get to know the real side of the story of this plane disaster. The cover ups of 9/11 and the Kennedy assassination are but just two of the many conspiracies where lies about those two events were spread around the world as lies for all of us to read and hopefully will believe and accept. The truth must never be revealed about anything to we the people. 

Apparently, Iran refuses to hand over the black box. Why? What are they trying to hide? All of our problems come from one gang only? Out dear political leaders, and their MSM who appear to always try to cover up any major events with lies and just more lies. The truth will always be sacrificed at the alter of lies. What a world, eh? :rolleyes: 

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Somewhat encouraging news. 
 

Quote

Ukraine's foreign minister says his country's investigators have been given access to the flight data recorders that were recovered from the wreckage of a Ukrainian plane that went down in Iran, killing all 176 people on board. 

Vadym Prystaiko's comments Friday came as allegations grow that an Iranian anti-aircraft missile shot down the plane. 

Prystaiko says investigators also have been given access to recordings of air-traffic controllers at the Tehran airport. Although investigators have been to the crash site, he says “there are certain pieces that up until this time have not been found or gathered.”
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/01/10/us/politics/ap-us-iran-the-latest-16th-ld-writethru.html

 

The Iranian govt has to realize that the truth is going to come out with or without its cooperation. Aviation safety is something the whole world has a legitimate interest in and, like the MH370 disaster, answers will be sought until they are found. 

 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland

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6 hours ago, Rue said:

I do not condone what happened but the fault lies with Ukrainian airlines putting its plane in active flight in what is called a red zone.

The radar system that locked on and took down the jet was pre -programmed to knock out anything in the air. Why Ukrainian airlines would not know this would be the case and so stay away from the red  zone, Ii.e., cany airspace over Iran like all other commercial  airlines did that night, begs an answer.

You walk smack dab in front of a live firing range you get bullet up yer ass. It ain't rocket science.

 

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6 hours ago, Rue said:

I do not condone what happened but the fault lies with Ukrainian airlines putting its plane in active flight in what is called a red zone.

The radar system that locked on and took down the jet was pre -programmed to knock out anything in the air. Why Ukrainian airlines would not know this would be the case and so stay away from the red  zone, Ii.e., cany airspace over Iran like all other commercial  airlines did that night, begs an answer.

You walk smack dab in front of a live firing range you get bullet up yer ass. It ain't rocket science.

In this case, it actually WAS rocket science.

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10 hours ago, cannuck said:

this time, there will be an Iranian soldier who will have to live with the full knowledge that his error killed 176 innocent people - many of them Iranian Canadians.

The entire murderous regime of Iran consisting of mullahs and paid thugs who CREATED the whole situation (the regime feeding on hate and purposely creating hate and war and sanctions in order to find justifications to murder Iranian people and survive a while longer) not just an Iranian soldier which I hope burns in hell for his crime with the regime that he is serving all burn in the fire of anger of this defenseless nation. Every day they create something new. The hostage crisis, the war continuation with Iraq, the Israel hate propaganda, The nuclear crisis and sanctions and many others. 

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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4 hours ago, Rue said:


1. Air traffic control at an international airport only can monitor airspace, but not  necessarily control it. Huge difference. Ultimate control is with the pilots of aircrafts in their air and anything else in the air. There are near misses every day precisely because of that limitation.  

 

It is called air traffic CONTROL because that is precisely what it is and what it does.  International commercial flights are all operated under IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) in which case it is ATC that is responsible for exactly where and when an airplane can occupy any particular block of airspace, and it is ATC that is responsible for maintaining separation from other aircraft.  The pilot can not simply taxi out and take off, as first a ground controller has to grant him clearance to get from the ramp/apron to an active runway, and before Air Traffic Control will grant access to the runway, they will have received a flight plan filed with ATC and will then clear the aircraft to the runway, clear it to take off, and assign it a heading and altitude as the first clearance in the IFR flight.  The only time in an IFR flight that the pilot is responsible for separation (i.e. not running into other airplanes or the ground) is when they have VFR (Visual Flight Rules) conditions, can see the destination airport and have cancelled IFR to make a VFR approach and landing.

So, was the Ukraine airline foolish to operate under these conditions?   Yes, somewhat, but they did as every other airline must do and were given clearance to what ATC is supposed to maintain as SAFE airspace.  If the airspace was "closed", they could never have been given clearance to get to the runway, never mind depart on their IFR flight plan.

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Makes you think that if the Iranian anti-aircraft is at that level that they can't tell a civilian plane from a military one what would happen if real fighter jets attacked them. 

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A deliberate murderous act by Iran regime.

This murderous regime of mullahs has deliberately shot down the plane to blame it on USA to produce more fever among Iranian people. But, it all went wrong because USA did not retaliate with missile launches.  They did expect missiles flying into Iran specially the airport.  So, they shot down the plane full of Iranians to blame it on USA.

This is not the first time they did this. In 1978 when they were inciting people to violence they SET FIRE to Cinema Rex in Abadan and blame it on the Shah's police. Over 400 people burned alive then. Not to mention they shot and killed 1500 defenseless unarmed peaceful protesters including 400 women and 17 children just last month from behind while they were running away. They purposely targeted their heads and hearts.

Wake up Canada and get the facts and truth about this crime. So many Canadians murdered. It is a SHAME that the world stays silent with all these crimes committed by this regime. Shame.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015

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2 hours ago, -TSS- said:

Makes you think that if the Iranian anti-aircraft is at that level that they can't tell a civilian plane from a military one what would happen if real fighter jets attacked them. 

Worth noting that of the missiles they launched against the Iraqi base, 1/3 failed completely and the rest did very little damage (but DID land on the base).   What makes me curious is why did the Yanks not have anti-missile defenses in place???

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2 minutes ago, cannuck said:

Worth noting that of the missiles they launched against the Iraqi base, 1/3 failed completely and the rest did very little damage (but DID land on the base).   What makes me curious is why did the Yanks not have anti-missile defenses in place???

 

U.S. operations at the bases were already winding down years ago.    No AA/missile defense batteries were deployed because the U.S./allies had total air superiority during the Iraq War and ISIS fight.    Iran was fighting ISIS as well.   No strategic assets at those bases either.

Canada, UK, and other allies also had no dedicated anti missile defenses in place.

 

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Latest Update:

After denying the truth for days Iran regime had no choice but to admit that they have shot down the commercial aircraft just taken off from Tehran International airport but they claim it was accidental.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/world/middleeast/missile-iran-plane-crash.html

The second part is a LIE. As it was said they purposely ordered to shoot down the civilian plane full of their own citizens so that later they blame it on Americans whom hours earlier they attacked, They planned to claim it was a US missile which blew up the plane but their plan did not materialize because President Trump decided not to retaliate militarily.

The world must unite and take down this murderous regime. Imagine what they would do to other citizens if they gain the capability when they purposely shoot their own people!!!!!!!

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