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Trump actions kill 63 Canadians


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5 minutes ago, Marocc said:

I don't know what this 'resulting jihad' means to you, but it's not something that happens as a revenge or as an accident or whim of some political leader. It is not a word interchangeable with 'war'.

 

Indeed...and no such relationship to war was intended.

Iran is only one of many nations subjected to American and allied foreign policy interventions...including "regime change"...going back to the 19th century.

Far more Iranians have emigrated to the USA than Americans emigrating to Iran.

 

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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4 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

Because they aren't on the payroll of the military industrial complex. If Trudeau sends troops overseas, it will be tax dollars... and not just the idiot American's who continue to warship Trump.

RT aka Russia Today is funded by the Russia government and is Russian propaganda.  You won't find much truth on there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

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1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

RT aka Russia Today is funded by the Russia government and is Russian propaganda.  You won't find much truth on there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

So the Russians are incapable of telling the Truth? There is something divine about America, and they lead the world in honesty and morality? The problem with America, is they believe they're exceptional. They have been told to believe in "USA USA USA"... like a bunch of hillbilly's that don't know any better.

As soon as you admit, your not kings of the world.. You begin to respect others, and want to learn from other cultures.

For too long conservatives have become xenophobic towards outsiders. Towards people that don't share the same ancestry or religion as theirs.

I'm grateful, I live in a Toronto... Where being racist comes with extreme consequences. I've had to do business with the Iranians... I use to be anti-muslim, but I sat down had dinner with them... They never once made me uncomfortable... The women didn't even wear a head scarf.

They don't want walk around in Burka's like the Saudi fruitcakes we get. They're good people.

I'm sick and tired of seeing the Saudi's get a free pass... While Canada sells weapons to bomb civilians in Yemen, yet we Call the Iranians barbarians?

I'm just a little sick of the double standard.

Iran is Persian... It's a very sophisticated culture... that frankly the racists on here, know nothing about.

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Edited by ProudConservative
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Because I don't want a war with Iran... I've been accused of being payed off by the Iranian government. Well Iran could just purchase Facebook adds, and save themselves a lot of money, instead of having me waste a week telling 10 neocons, to not trust the military industrial complex.

https://www.dw.com/en/amnesty-international-slams-western-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia-and-allies-in-yemen-war/a-43096284

Edited by ProudConservative
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Qassem Soleimani was an apparatus of the Iranian regime taken out by the US.

IMO he was a bargaining chip provided on a silver plate to the Americans by the Ayatollahs as his gradual strength through the ranks over the years posed a real threat to the supreme leader. He was a peasant that became a general, a general who became an icon fighting off ISIS and keeping them at bay from Iran borders and yet part of the same corrupt ideology inherent in the Iranian regime that ultimately killed him off....

One would argue that the following events post his assassination is only good for Iranian leadership and Trump’s re-election chances. The so called “hard revenge” by Iran was nothing but a ‘contrived’ scenario collaborated by the supreme leader of Iran and president Trump each for their own chances of appeasing to the nation. Iran’s peculiar attack on “US bases” in Iraq without even a single casualty poses many questions....There were no American casualties. So far so good. It was win win scenario for both Iran and the US. Ayatollahs get the popular vote for domestic consumption propagating that we have given a ‘slap to the Great Satan’ and the foreign minister of Iran Zarif stating that the matter about Qassem Soleimani “is now concluded”. With Soleimani out of the picture the chapter is now closed and a new chapter begins the standoff between Iran, US and its allies....On the other hand Trump is looking triumphant as ever by taking “the general out”. This will dilute his impeachment case and increase his chances in securing a second term....

But the real losers here are the Iranian people that are caught in the midst of fire....Literally.... The death toll of 176 passengers on a recent Ukrainian flight by an anti missile was a terrible tragedy. The Iranian regime admitted to this. In an ironic way, this event resonates a similar attack in 1988 by the US navy ship in the Persian Gulf in which 290 Iranian passengers were onboard flight PS752 hit by a US missile.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/10/middleeast/iran-air-flight-655-us-military-intl-hnk/index.html

Edited by kactus
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8 hours ago, eyeball said:

Not covertly during peacetime you lying sack of excrement.

Eyeball come on. Don't undo the points you are making with the last comment. Your left view is needed in debates. It gets undermined by the name calling. I am responsible to for doing that. I am no better than you but we gotta cool it sometimes.  I debate a lot of people on the right and they don't name call me. I respect that. 

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7 hours ago, Marocc said:

Aren't your lies ridiculous to you?

Marocc:

1-you are the only poster I know who has the intellectual honesty and integrity to not hide they are Muslim or their true views-I respect that;

2-I respect you have not been rude to me in responses and you probably have wanted to be but I do note you have not been and I respect that;

3-I disagree with your views but I defend your right to have them-I will challenge any that advocate extremism or violence but with respect as well you have never said anything at this time that condones terrorism or violence;

4-many of us disagree with your comments, it doesn't make you a liar;

5-Citizen is many things but not a liar-Citizen expresses heartfelt beliefs as  you do I again defend Citizen as someone who can't stand some of my opinions and has shown courtesy to me and others in debates- I respect Citizen very much.

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1 hour ago, kactus said:

Qassem Soleimani an apparatus of the Iranian regime taken out by the US.

IMO he was a bargaining chip provided on a silver plate to the Americans by the Ayatollahs as his gradual strength through the ranks over the years posed a real threat to the supreme leader. He was a peasant that became a general, a general who became an icon fighting ISIS yet part of the same corrupt ideology inherent in the Iranian regime that ultimately killed him off....

One would argue that the following events post his assassination is only good for Iranian leadership and Trump’s re election chances. The so called “hard revenge” by Iran was nothing but a ‘contrived’ scenario collaborated by the supreme leader of Iran and president Trump. Iran’s peculiar attack on “US bases” in Iraq without even a single casualty poses many questions....No casualty so far so good. It was win win. Ayatollahs get the popular vote for domestic consumption propagating that we have given a ‘slap to the Great Satan’ and the foreign minister of Iran Zarif stating that the matter about Qassem Soleimani “is now concluded”. With Soleimani out of the picture the chapter is now closed and a new chapter on this standoff between Iran, US and its allies open....On one hand Trump is looking triumphant by taking “the general out”. This will dilute his impeachment case and increase his chances securing a second term....

But the real losers here are the Iranian people that are caught in the fire. The death toll of 176 civilians on a recent Ukrainian flight by an anti missile was a terrible tragedy. The Iranian regime admitted to this. In an ironic way this event resonates a similar attack by the US navy ship in the persian gulf in which 290 passengers were onboard on flight PS752 by a US missile.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/01/10/middleeast/iran-air-flight-655-us-military-intl-hnk/index.html

I wouldn't put it beyond this deceiving murderous mullahs to have done exactly that. That is to have compromised Soleimani to Americans and they benefited a lot from it as we saw they were able to exploit the situation and gather millions for Soleimani's funeral and for several days there were no anti-regime protests anywhere in Iran.

Soleimani  had become very popular with the people because of he was an Iran-Iraq war veteran and instrumental in driving the murderous ISIS away from Iranian borders and later defeat them out of Iraq so yes he indeed was a threat to the murderous leadership of the regime. This regime has a history of such actions and another recent one is the elimination of a former president of their own regime (ayatollah Rafsanjani) who suddenly had a heart attack while swimming but many political observers know that he was murdered because he started opposing the extremists in the regime and their brutal way to suppress the people. 

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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7 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

So the Russians are incapable of telling the Truth? There is something divine about America, and they lead the world in honesty and morality? The problem with America, is they believe they're exceptional. They have been told to believe in "USA USA USA"... like a bunch of hillbilly's that don't know any better.

As soon as you admit, your not kings of the world.. You begin to respect others, and want to learn from other cultures.

The Russians aren't big in to telling the truth about America, they are in to demonizing it and pretending it is much worse than it really is. You are extremely unlikely to find the truth about America told from Russian propaganda. You simply have Anti-American bias that leads you to believe RT is telling the truth about America, because they paint them in a negative light at every turn, but you and RT just want to believe the worst about America, regardless of the truth.

America is the most honest and moral of the major world powers, America is exceptional. America has learned more from other cultures than any other culture in the history of mankind, that's part of why they are so exceptional. You are the one who doesn't know any better, America Derangement Syndrome is a helluva drug.

Edited by Yzermandius19
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40 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The Russians aren't big in to telling the truth about America, they are in to demonizing it and pretending it is much worse than it really is. You are unlikely to find the truth about America told from Russian propaganda.

America is the most honest and moral of the major world powers, America is exceptional. America has learned more from other cultures than any other culture in the history of mankind, that's part of why they are so exceptional.

C’mon.  You talk about America as though it’s one person. America has many wise and sophisticated citizens as well as many ignorant and unintelligent citizens.  It has mean spirited citizens and people of goodwill.   Guess what, so does Iran and all countries.  The governance structure in America is better than in most but probably not the best.  Its good geography and freedom has attracted many people and built a strong economy and military.  Great.  With great power comes great responsibility.   America’s foreign policy history has a mixed record of success and failure.  Many good acts and outcomes (Marshall Plan and D Day, winning the culture war that won the Cold War, etc.) and some lousy acts and outcomes (Iran-Contra, arms for hostages, opium funding of Vietnam war, protracted Vietnam war, second invasion of Iraq, excessive beholdenness to the military industrial complex, disrupting democratic outcomes in Middle East, etc.).  I’d still rather see the US dominate than China or Russia, so far.  

I’d rather see a better international distribution of power that contains the excessive belligerence of any power, including the US.  It is true though that economic and military supremacy affords many privileges, including the ability to play by your own rules.  The US has that.  That’s our reality.  American voters should be well informed in order to use this power responsibly.  Other countries with good ideas need to find ways to positively impact the use of power.  Hard power is important, but in the Information Age, so are ideas.  Present a good vision for the world and people will follow.  The US doesn’t have a great world vision under current leadership, which is a vulnerability.  It’s relying more heavily these days on economic and military might.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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9 hours ago, eyeball said:

Well you're overlooking how many other countries in the region were similarly interfered with. As mentioned earlier another effect of Operation Ajax was how its success emboldened the CIA to behave similarly and court/aid/install/prop up other dictators and warlords and such in the region hence the destabilization that gave rise to subsequent Islamic revolutions, terrorism, 9/11, endless wars and so on.

The US should certainly mention it's victimization to the international truth and reconciliation commission or whatever the peace process is called that will emerge at some point.  I'm quite certain the commission will be tasked with assigning responsibility for reparations to the appropriate parties.  It's almost too bad the Soviets collapsed and aren't around to send a bill to because they certainly helped contribute to the mess as well.

Yes, lots of countries around the world have been interfered with.  But they don’t act in a similar fashion.  See central and South America as well as most African countries.  Regardless, if you keep going back in history, you’ll see that Iran has interred in the same manner many times throughout the region.  Guess what?  History doesn’t start at 1953, or even 1900!  It actually goes back hundreds and thousands of years.  Stop giving Iran a pass on killing 63 innocent people.  If you go back far enough everyone has a reason to act like an a**hole. 

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7 minutes ago, Shady said:

Yes, lots of countries around the world have been interfered with.  But they don’t act in a similar fashion.  See central and South America as well as most African countries.  Regardless, if you keep going back in history, you’ll see that Iran has interred in the same manner many times throughout the region.  Guess what?  History doesn’t start at 1953, or even 1900!  It actually goes back hundreds and thousands of years.  Stop giving Iran a pass on killing 63 innocent people.  If you go back far enough everyone has a reason to act like an a**hole. 

The Iranian theocracy and current president are garbage that the people of Iran need to throw out.  That they have been unable or unwilling to do this doesn’t reflect well on the country.  

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45 minutes ago, Shady said:

  Stop giving Iran a pass on killing 63 innocent people.  If you go back far enough everyone has a reason to act like an a**hole. 

They killed 176 people but 63 of them were Canadians. They also murdered 1500 unarmed young protesters including 400 women and 17 children just last month in a nationwide protest against the regime. The order to kill came from the top leadership. These are most recent massacres but many more just past few years.

https://www.voanews.com/middle-east/voa-news-iran/us-confirms-report-citing-iran-officials-saying-1500-killed-protests

The reason Iranians cannot rid of this regime btw, is because the regime is too brutal and order its hired thugs to purposely target hearts and heads of protesters and does not care about international reactions and they enjoy support from two other murderous regimes of Russia and China.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

....  American voters should be well informed in order to use this power responsibly.  Other countries with good ideas need to find ways to positively impact the use of power.  Hard power is important, but in the Information Age, so are ideas.  Present a good vision for the world and people will follow.  The US doesn’t have a great world vision under current leadership, which is a vulnerability.  It’s relying more heavily these days on economic and military might.  

 

Nevertheless, the U.S. attracted more immigrants than any other country in the world during such periods of unbridled power and economic growth, including unilateral leadership.    People will still follow.....just as they always have.

Trump may not have been a consensus choice for president...but American power still is.

Edited by bush_cheney2004
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23 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Nevertheless, the U.S. attracted more immigrants than any other country in the world during such periods of unbridled power and economic growth, including unilateral leadership.    People will still follow.....just as they always have.

Trump may not have been a consensus choice for president...but American power still is.

You’re too rosy and one sided in that post. C’mon. 

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4 hours ago, Rue said:

Eyeball come on. Don't undo the points you are making with the last comment. Your left view is needed in debates. It gets undermined by the name calling. I am responsible to for doing that. I am no better than you but we gotta cool it sometimes.  I debate a lot of people on the right and they don't name call me. I respect that. 

No, I think I'm coming around to the fact my view is just getting in the way.  Being full of shit is appropriate for the reality we've chosen.  By rights it should be viewed as a compliment especially if it gets you ahead or keeps you on top.

It's time to embrace the horror - kind of like adapting to climate change as opposed to doing anything about it.

Climate change....:rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, Shady said:

If you go back far enough everyone has a reason to act like an a**hole. 

That's okay Shady I think I've made some sort of break thru the hopelessness and I'm coming around to realizing acting like an asshole is probably okay.  I think I might even start giving it a try.

I kinda feel like the character Machine in the movie Fury. I'm woking up.

I can still hear my heart weeping in the background but I should have that curb-stomped in no time.

Edited by eyeball
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